29 replies to this topic

[f1steveuk]

Someone suggested a thread discussing the development of drivers race suits, but like all things, I thought all the safetywear that racing drivers use are usually interlinked, so I thought I'd set the ball rolling with this.

I have seen footage of Henry O'Neil De Hane Segrave using a hard crash helmet in the 1920s, which must have been one, if not the first use of a hard shell crash helmet, though I wonder if it was a purpose made, motorsport helmet. Malcolm Campbell, although a consistent user of soft linen helmets, actually patented and sold a "Malcolm Campbell Hard Shell Helmet", although this was after he retired from driving cars (on circuits or sand/salt).

As far as fire proof/resistant suits. I have read that between the wars drivers soaked there overalls in something (I keep thinking bromide, but that had other uses!!) to help make cotton resistant to fire, but the first footage I recall of a fire proof suit was Jackie Stewart in a silver foil type one in 1968, though he gave up as it wasn't designed to bend as much as a driver would need.

Seat belts, well again Malcolm Campbell had a lap belt in the 1933 and 1935 Blue Bird car and both of his Blue Bird boats, though this may just have been to keep him in the seat at speed!

Are there earlier examples of these? Was there someone before DuPont and Nomex? Was the Campbell helmet the first, designed for motorsport hard helmet?

And the most crucial question, a bit of a chicken and egg thing, did the makers of this safety wear tend to react to incidents to develop new technology, or were they sometimes ahead of the game?

Edited by f1steveuk, 12 October 2010 - 15:47.

[Cirrus]

I think this will be an interesting thread. I worked for Gordon Spice in the mid-seventies, so know something about racewear and safety equipment from that era. Regarding the "Bromide" treatment - a friend of the family was a director of Advance Laundrys, and he offered to dry clean my Linea Sport FPT overalls. After they had been cleaned he rang me and asked what sort of fire-proofing I'd like for them. He was quite disbelieving when I told him that the overalls were inherently fireproof, and I had to insist quite forcibly that he did not get them dipped in some magic solution.

Proban has been around for a long time, and is often seen in its orange incarnation at marshal's posts around the UK. I'm pretty sure that's a form of treated cotton.

[Tim Murray]

I have seen footage of Henry O'Neil De Hane Segrave using a hard crash helmet in the 1920s, which must have been one, if not the first use of a hard shell crash helmet, though I wonder if it was a purpose made, motorsport helmet.

According to Cyril Posthumus in his Segrave biography, he first wore the crash helmet in 1924:

It was in that [1924] 200 Miles Race [at Brooklands] that Segrave appeared with a new-style peaked crash helmet which many felt would have been more appropriate on Duller's head. This helmet, which did indeed resemble a jockey cap, was the result of serious discussion between de Hane and the writer-driver Sammy Davis. Both were aware of the seriousness of head injuries all too easily sustained in motor racing accidents, and were anxious to do something about it.

After trying the steel 'jockey' type headgear, de Hane had a special hat made to measure in a more pliant material, and found it more comfortable. A separate peak was fitted, a leading surgeon having advised that, in the result of a crash, a fixed peak might easily break the driver's neck, should he be thrown out of the car.

Smartly finished in white, de Hane's new helmet aroused considerable interest at Brooklands, although there were some impolite references to 'bone dome' and chantings of 'Where did you get that hat?' - where, oh where, oh where?', which the wearer shrugged off with a grin and the prophetic remark, 'You'll all be wearing them soon'.

[Geoff E]

According to Ivan Rendell in "The Chequered Flag", Eddie Rickenbacker and Peter Henderson wore steel helmets at Indianapolis in 1916.

Rickenbacker's car is allegedly "mostly obscured" in this photo - in which case they may be the men in the white hats. http://tinyurl.com/385hwmz

[Tim Murray]

This is corroborated in Rick Popely's Indianapolis 500 Chronicle, which has the following in its description of the 1916 race:

Rickenbacker and teammate Pete Henderson wear steel helmets, the first crash helmets in American racing.

and it's definitely Rickenbacker's Maxwell (#5) between Aitken (#18) and Anderson (#28) in the photo.

Edited by Tim Murray, 12 October 2010 - 20:44.

[f1steveuk]

Is there any suggestion as to who made Segrave's helmet?

[Tim Murray]

The Posthumus book doesn't say who made Segrave's helmet. I've also checked Memories of Men and Motor Cars by Sammy Davis, but was slightly surprised to find no mention at all of crash helmets in the chapter on racing. However, there are a couple of interesting snippets on helmets in the Posthumus book. Following the debut of Segrave's crash helmet at the 1924 J.C.C. 200 Miles race at Brooklands, the organisers of the 1925 race sent round a memorandum to all drivers recommending the use of crash helmets. Segrave's last motor race was the 1927 Essex MC's Six Hour Race at Brooklands, in which the wearing of crash helmets was compulsory.

[jm70]

I seem to remember suits being dipped in a borax solution in the '60's.

[f1steveuk]

Borax, that was it, wonder why I thought Bromide (!!!!).

I had the chance to see a few Segrave artifacts a few years ago. The steering wheel from Miss England II, his seat from the same craft, and a white crash helmet. It had the look of a Herbert Johnson, but I never looked inside.

So what does soaking cotton in a Borax solution actually do?

[Mistron]

I seem to recall that some of the 60's flameproof suits (including the silver foil one JYS advocated, I think) contained that wonderfull and useful stuff, Asbestos! nong term, that might not have been such a great plan.......

Did it noot used to be the thing that your local dry cleaner would 'treat' your chosen racing atire with something to make it fireproof in the '50s. I read an article written by a Dr (Dr Bott?) in an old 750mc publication

[Tim Murray]

Did it noot used to be the thing that your local dry cleaner would 'treat' your chosen racing atire with something to make it fireproof in the '50s. I read an article written by a Dr (Dr Bott?) in an old 750mc publication

Yes indeed - an article by Dr Michael Bott which appeared in the 750MC's Design for Competition book:

You can buy material for fire-proofing your clothes - a very good precaution - or Dry Cleaners will do it for you.

He didn't say what the stuff you should use for this was.

Edited by Tim Murray, 13 October 2010 - 19:46.

[lanciaman]

Lew Hinchman of Indianapolis made the first true fire resistant suits, of Nomex, in the mid 1960s. I did some work for Lew and he became a good friend. His father made uniforms for tradesmen, and Lew continued in the business. In the early 1950s he made a suit modeled after a flight suit for Rodger Ward- fitting, as Ward was a fighter pilot- but it was not Nomex. Hinchman made a number of custom suits for Indy drivers in the 1950-60s, but they were of the dipped-in-Borax-before-every-use genre. At one time I owned a suit with Jim Rathman's name on it, and Lew identified it for me as the prototype for subsequent Nomex suits.

The DuPont product, developed for the US Navy, became available for private industry and Lew began making fire resistant suits in the mid 1960s (before anyone else, no matter what Bill Simpson claims). Hinchman suits were all custom tailored: being measured for a suit in his Russell Avenue shop on the near southside of Indianapolis was a memorable occasion. The shop was filled with memorabilia, photos, and autograph boards bearing his customers' signatures, virtually everyone in racing.

Lew immediately replaced suits damaged in fires, without charge. And he gave many away. When I arrived at his shop with my wife for her driver's suit fitting (compliments of Andy Granatelli and STP), Lew asked what suit I wore. I told him I was given an old suit by an Indy driver friend of mine, Lee Kunzman, who was a bit more compact than I, whereupon Lew insisted on making a suit for me, matching my wife's, gratis. We became family friends for many years, and I am glad the company bearing his name lives on in good health, run by former employees.

Edited by lanciaman, 13 October 2010 - 20:10.

[Lee Nicolle]

My first driving suit in 1977 was a proban suit made by Fastman in Victoria. I actually still have it!! In conjuction with undied wool longjohn underwear that was the budget set up for the period.
Though how effective it would have been after drycleaning I do not know [I had a drycleaner for a sponsor] But at least it stayed quite clean! As the amount of mud you dealt with at Rallycross was very high.

[lanciaman]

My first driving suit in 1977 was a proban suit made by Fastman in Victoria. I actually still have it!! In conjuction with undied wool longjohn underwear that was the budget set up for the period.
Though how effective it would have been after drycleaning I do not know [I had a drycleaner for a sponsor] But at least it stayed quite clean! As the amount of mud you dealt with at Rallycross was very high.

The problem with any suit after use is that accumulated oil stains obviate the effectiveness of fire resistance. Apparently petro residue doesn't entirely wash out. And oil can degrade Nomex over time. Hinchman offered a suit made of someting new, in the 1990s, I forget what it was called now, that promised to release all petroleum residue with washing. Problem was the suits faded badly and Lew stopped using it.

Then there's the matter of sewing on sponsor patches. Back in the day, patches were sewn on with Nomex thread, but the patches themselves weren't Nomex. Now, everything is embroidered Nomex.

Edited by lanciaman, 14 October 2010 - 01:11.

[T54]

I am the one who suggested this thread in another, and before we get too involved, I would like to make a few comments regarding the posts already made:

1/ NO material is "fire proof". At best, some materials are "heat resistant". No need for fire for suffering burns, HEAT causes burn and can be generated by many other ways... Aramid fiber (AKA Nomex, a Dupont trademark) has proven so far to be the best material to protect against heat, but it gets a lot more complex. I will get into that later.

2/ Lew Hinchman is indeed the man who manufactured the first truly heat retardant racing suits for auto racing use. Bill Simpson takes a lot of credit for lots of things, but as I will later demonstrate, did not invent and rather copied, at least most of the time, with few exceptions. Hinchman suits were used by most Indy 500 racers including European visitors from 1963 all the way to 1970 when Simpson took over the Goodyear racing suits contract. In Italy, Linea Sport suits were made of PTF, a treated cotton material. In the UK, Les Leston was the first I believe to make racing suits from Nomex. The first multi-layer suit was made in France in 1972 in PTF material by Stand 21.

3/ Borax is not quite the same as boric acid that is derived from borax. The racing suits made of cotton and other flammable materials were dipped in boric acid. However, a simple wash in water or dry cleaning washed the acid away and if it was not done after every laundry process, the very little protection afforded by the treatment was gone.

4/ Proban cotton was a bad joke perpetrated on the impecunious racer. If you own any such garments, please be advised that the protection afforded is akin to that of cotton without treatment, meaning... not much. it was a one-time protection, once washed, that was it. Also very dangerous are garments made of "Carbon-X" material. While they will not burn since the combustion process on carbon fibers has effectively already been... processed, they transmit heat. So while it takes a while to get the transmission to your skin, once it has passed that stage, it will hold heat at a rate that you will not like... also it leaves microscopic shards in your skin and you will not like that either after you try figuring out why you have rash in some areas of your body.

5/ There is this urban legend around that says that Nomex will lose its heat-resistant properties if washed too often. Nothing could be further from the truth. The laundering of Nomex garments INCREASES their heat and fire protection. The more you wash your racing suit, the more protection you will get from it. The reason? The material (Aramid fiber) does not deteriorate, it is a man-made fiber that has very strong mechanical properties. But it is very hard to weave, so a lubricant is used to do so, otherwise the weaving machines needles will constantly break. The more you wash the garment, the more you wash the flammable lubricant away. It is that simple.
However, Nomex does not retain color very well. Its natural color is an off-white beige. Even white Nomex is dyed. Sun exposure fades colors added by dye to Nomex fibers. But it does NOT alter its properties. More important is to make sure that an older suit retains its assembly integrity, so check assembly threads to make sure that they are not made of Nylon or not compromised with breaks. Zipper material should also be made of Nomex, NOT Nylon! Nylon will melt at low temperature and I have plenty of horror stories to tell you about garments falling apart in fires.

OK, now back to history of racing wear. We are still in the 1920's and 1930's, don't forget the "racing suits" and "helmets" worn before WW1, by drivers such as Camille Jenatzy! Their effectiveness was as symbolic as that of the protection offered by the period automobiles but it has to begin somewhere...

Edited by T54, 14 October 2010 - 03:22.

[f1steveuk]

T54, it was indeed your idea I simply wanted to get the ball rolling.

I also put "fire proof/resisitant", as if there was anything that was "proof" we'd have been using it for years!

Regarding Lew Hinchman, I was told while researching on a programme about the Apollo space programme that NASA had approached "someone at Indy, and in motorsport" to help with the design of the suits used after the Apollo One fire, could that have been Lew Hinchman?

[lanciaman]

T54, it was indeed your idea I simply wanted to get the ball rolling.

I also put "fire proof/resisitant", as if there was anything that was "proof" we'd have been using it for years!

Regarding Lew Hinchman, I was told while researching on a programme about the Apollo space programme that NASA had approached "someone at Indy, and in motorsport" to help with the design of the suits used after the Apollo One fire, could that have been Lew Hinchman?

Yes. I don't know what came of this, though. Lew made suits for the Blue Angles (US Navy acrobatic flight team) and many other military applications, often without charge. As he grrew older, he became satisfied with the state of his business, though he always chafed at losing the Goodyear contract over what he tought to be unfair requirements.

Regarding heat penetration, there also is the problem of steam: perspiration condensing and turning into steam as the suit heats up. I've done a few demonstrations of heat transferral wearing Nomex gloves, setting them afire; you have about 15 seconds and then it gets hot in a hurry.

In my day we wore double layer suits with underwear; the underwear provided an insulating layer.

[T54]

F1steve, I was simply saying that I was the one suggesting a thread and am pleased that you started it!

Lanciaman, the "steam" is only one of the issues. before we go further into historical issues and what was done when and by whom, please have a look at the work performed in collaboration with Dr. Terry Trammel, Dr. Claude Meistelman, Dr. Paul Trafford and Dr. Mineo Kawasaki on the study of heat stress in the past 10 years, please CLICK HERE, then CLICK HERE and watch the video...

As an example of heat stress, it is highly possible that the heart attack that killed Denny Hulme was caused by heat stress.
Understanding the process of exudation is very important in racing safety, especially for many of us who are older, racing pretty fast machinery and no longer have the resistance/endurance of younger men. Our protection as well as our comfort is utmost. A good test of adequate garments (made of good heat retardant material) is their breath-ability. The best test for your racing suit is simple:
1/ Place your hand inside a sleeve.
2/ Apply your lips tightly against the sleeve over you hand, sealing the material with your lips, and blow as hard as you can. If the suit is good, air will flow through it, you will feel it flowing on your hand. If you feel that air is blocked by the material, the suit will likely cause some form of heat stress especially in an enclosed car.
Also, do not worry about if your suit is "lightweight". It is a silly question of saving 500 grams on a racing suit. if you are so worry, have a lighter breakfast!
The weight of a racing suit (within reason) is 4 to 5 lbs. if you see any advertising for 'lightweight" suits, don't be taken by the concept, it detracts from the important issues: does the "lightweight" suit breathe or not? Does it really protects against heat or not?

Now, everyone thinks that cotton Tee shirts are breathable, right? Well do the same test and you will find out that they simply are not. So obviously it is not the kind of undergarment you want to wear under your suit! Use only breathable Nomex underwear from a good company. As far as "layers" on a racing suit, don't count the number of layers as "protection". Check the suit's rating from its label behind the neck (FIA) or on the sleeves (SFI). An FIA rating or an SFI-5 rating worn with decent underwear will provide good (but not great) protection against heat IF the garments can breathe.
If not, you will sweat until the suit cannot wick any more water, then your body temperature will rise until you reach your personal threshold of syncope. In the meantime your brain functions will be severely affected without you being aware of it. That's when you go in the wall and don't remember how it happened.

In the 1950's, F1 drivers such as Fangio and Ascari were wearing short-sleeve polo shirts and loose cotton pants, and that's how their body could breathe and sweat, because the body was not entirely covered. Today, you can't do that anymore...

Edited by T54, 14 October 2010 - 22:52.

[f1steveuk]

F1steve, I was simply saying that I was the one suggesting a thread and am pleased that you started it!

I know, honest! A a very good suggestion it was too!

[lanciaman]

A couple of years ago I worked with a client company that produced patented wicking antimicrobial knit fabrics. They seemed to think they could make these fabrics with Nomex, hence wicking fire resistant underwear that would not discolor or smell from perspiration (or worse, a consequence of "Jeezus where did he come from!?"). They made some garments for long term under water lab use, but sale of the company precluded any development of products for motorsports.

[opplock]

Proban cotton was a bad joke perpetrated on the impecunious racer. If you own any such garments, please be advised that the protection afforded is akin to that of cotton without treatment, meaning... not much. it was a one-time protection, once washed, that was it.

I'm sitting here with a pair of orange Proban treated overalls as worn by most UK marshals. The label states "Flame retardancy of the fabric meets the requirements of EN533...... after 50 standard washes."

Concren has been raised previously about the effectiveness of these overalls and I have attended training seminars in which a manufacturer of said overalls assured us that claims such as this are nonsense.

Who is right? I'd prefer not to find out the hard way.

[T54]

Opplock,
If you want to be sure, the best test is the one I use: is is called a cigarette lighter. Here is the method I used for the Marlboro Challenge suits in the mid 1990's:

1/ Cut a small excess piece of the garment near seams. There always is. The piece does not need to be large, a 1/4" X 1/2" is plenty for the demonstration.
2/ Hold with a set of metal tweezers.
3/ Place flame under the material for 2 full seconds, then remove the flame.

A/ If the material burns and keeps burning (and it will do it fast), don't use the garment. Get your own from a reputable company, then try the same test again to satisfy yourself.
B/ If the material chars (turns black) but does not actually sustain the flame once the flame is removed, you are safer. How safe depends on the amount of heat you will be subjected to VS the ability of the material to slow the heat transfer.

The Marlboro people were SHOCKED when the material from the racing suits they had contracted with a famous supplier of which garments WERE approved by the sanctioning bodies then) literally exploded inside their motor home when submitted to the above treatment and nearly set the floor in fire. I of course had to prove that the material we were going to supply did not do the same and used material from one of Emerson Fittipaldi's suits who was present, and that happened to be in the motor home, to demonstrate. It behaved as in "B" above, which is what you want to happen.
No use to tell you that we got the contract for the remainder of the program...

Please also note that some samples submitted to tests may not be the same that you will later purchase... it is unfortunate but we have seen it time and time again... while most suppliers are honest, some are... less.

OK, I better place a disclaimer here:
I am a retired person with no financial interest in any safety equipment company. Until 1995, I was the importer in the USA of a famous brand. While I retain great friendship with the owners, customers and various entities who have partnered with the company, I have no other interest than of informing and educating racers as far as the dangers they face when purchasing and using certain garments of which safety claims are often greatly exaggerated.
During my 15 years in the business, I was privy to tests and test results on racing suits, gloves, shoes, underwear, helmets, HANS devices and safety belts, and was often amazed to read said results. I have built a pretty clear understanding of how fibers function when exposed to heat, and have no issues sharing what I have learned.
What I have learned is sometimes great, sometimes rather ugly.

Edited by T54, 15 October 2010 - 16:42.

[opplock]

T54, thanks for the advice. I'll try that experiment.

[T54]

Please, report!
And please don't set the carpet on fire!

[mfd]

Please, report!

I like informed opinion

[B Squared]

I scanned these letters from the Marshman archives that I have access to. From what I understand, George Marshman (Bobby's father), was very keen to find an answer to the fire problems that were so prevalent at that time and had claimed his son. These were in his files. I'm unsure of how Mr. Marshman and Mr. Philson were connected. I hope they are of interest.

[f1steveuk]

That is fascinating, thank you.

[T54]

Interesting and telling set of letters. The attorney is correct, there was nothing to gain in spending a large amount of money to patent the un-patentable.
Lots of similar systems were designed, engineered and tested in the day, but none surfaced at the end of the day as a workable solution. Remember the various water cooled garments produced in the past 30 years, that often cause more harm that good when the system quit functioning properly.

In fact, most of the suit fire-retardant issue was resolved when multiple-layer Nomex III suits were first made. The burns were now concentrated on limb ends, neck and faces, but there would be another 14 years after that invention and its introduction to the market (1972) until such suits could be made to breathe and keep the driver from a problem nearly as bad as fire, that of heat stress.
Progress marches on, but the human body is the same as before, only getting hotter inside a modern racing car.

[opplock]

Please, report!
And please don't set the carpet on fire!

Sorry for the delay. The results were rather scary and I have decided that it is time to buy a new pair of marshals overalls. I discovered that my existing pair are 5 years old. In future I will be replacing them every couple of years.

[T54]

A case of "I told you so" ?

Please describe the inferno for all here to be made aware of the lies perpetrated by the treated cotton merchants. Did it burn exactly as I described?
Now if your organization recommends these garments, you might want to have a word with the responsible parties and show them your home test?

If the material is genuine (AKA Dupont Nomex III NOT compromised by the cross-weaving of wool thread so as to lower the cost, as several American companies are doing) and the garment is kept in clean condition through laundering (avoid dry cleaning) with the recommended soap and process by reputable manufacturers, you do not have to change it every 5 years, because it will never lose its properties. The more you wash it, the more fire retardant it will be.
As long as it is mechanically sound (meaning, not falling apart from actual wear), it will last as long as you want to use it.

I was looking in my old Indy year books and in the 1956 issue, there is a picture of one of the late Bob Sweikert's "fireproof" overalls hanging in his garage. It is very unfortunate to think that so many actually believed and still believe such fairy tales.

Edited by T54, 02 November 2010 - 14:32.