82 replies to this topic

[Postnoff]

Anybody knows somthing about him? Maybe you have some information, links, or somthing else? I need this very much...
If you have some info please send me on postnoff@hotmail.com

[cjpani]

Carlos Pace: All RacesWinsPodiumsPolesFastest LapsRetirements



Races for Brabham
Date Circuit Qualified Finished Race Report
05 Mar 1977 Kyalami 2nd 13th Here
23 Jan 1977 Interlagos 5th Retired: Accident Here
09 Jan 1977 Buenos Aires 6th 2nd Here

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24 Oct 1976 Mount Fuji 6th Retired: Withdrew Here
10 Oct 1976 Watkins Glen 10th Retired: Accident With Mass Here
03 Oct 1976 Mosport Park 10th 7th Here
12 Sep 1976 Monza 3rd Retired: Engine Here
29 Aug 1976 Zandvoort 9th Retired: Oil Leak Here
15 Aug 1976 Osterreichring 8th Retired: Brakes/Hit Barrier Here
01 Aug 1976 Nurburgring 7th 4th Here
18 Jul 1976 Brands Hatch 16th 8th Here
04 Jul 1976 Paul Ricard 5th 4th Here
13 Jun 1976 Anderstorp 10th 8th Here
30 May 1976 Monte Carlo 13th 9th Here
16 May 1976 Zolder 9th Retired: Electrical Here
02 May 1976 Jarama 11th 6th Here
28 Mar 1976 Long Beach 13th 9th Here
06 Mar 1976 Kyalami 14th Retired: Engine Here
25 Jan 1976 Interlagos 10th 10th Here

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05 Oct 1975 Watkins Glen 16th Retired: Accident With Depailler Here
07 Sep 1975 Monza 10th Retired: Throttle Linkage Here
17 Aug 1975 Osterreichring 6th Retired: Engine Here
03 Aug 1975 Nurburgring 2nd Retired: Rear Upright Here
19 Jul 1975 Silverstone 2nd 2nd Here
06 Jul 1975 Paul Ricard 5th Retired: Driveshaft Here
22 Jun 1975 Zandvoort 9th 5th Here
08 Jun 1975 Anderstorp 6th Retired: Accident Here
25 May 1975 Zolder 2nd 8th Here
11 May 1975 Monte Carlo 8th 3rd Here
27 Apr 1975 Montjuich Park 14th Retired: Accident Avoiding Stommelen Here
01 Mar 1975 Kyalami 1st 4th Here
26 Jan 1975 Interlagos 6th 1st Here
12 Jan 1975 Buenos Aires 2nd Retired: Engine Here

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06 Oct 1974 Watkins Glen 4th 2nd Here
22 Sep 1974 Mosport Park 9th 8th Here
08 Sep 1974 Monza 3rd 5th Here
18 Aug 1974 Osterreichring 4th Retired: Fuel Line Here
04 Aug 1974 Nurburgring 17th 12th Here
20 Jul 1974 Brands Hatch 20th 9th Here

Races for HEX
Date Circuit Qualified Finished Race Report
07 Jul 1974 Dijon-Prenois DNQ Retired: DNQ Here

Races for Surtees
Date Circuit Qualified Finished Race Report
09 Jun 1974 Anderstorp 24th Retired: Handling Here
26 May 1974 Monte Carlo 18th Retired: Multiple Accident Here
12 May 1974 Nivelles 8th Retired: Wheel Vibration Here
28 Apr 1974 Jarama 14th 13th Here
30 Mar 1974 Kyalami 2nd 11th Here
27 Jan 1974 Interlagos 12th 4th Here
13 Jan 1974 Buenos Aires 11th Retired: Engine Here

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07 Oct 1973 Watkins Glen 9th Retired: Suspension Here
23 Sep 1973 Mosport Park 19th Retired: Broken Wheel Here
09 Sep 1973 Monza 5th Retired: Blowout Here
19 Aug 1973 Osterreichring 8th 3rd Here
05 Aug 1973 Nurburgring 11th 4th Here
29 Jul 1973 Zandvoort 8th 7th Here
14 Jul 1973 Silverstone 15th Retired: Multiple Accident-1 Here
01 Jul 1973 Paul Ricard 18th 13th Here
17 Jun 1973 Anderstorp 16th 10th Here
03 Jun 1973 Monte Carlo 17th Retired: Driveshaft Here
20 May 1973 Zolder 8th 8th Here
29 Apr 1973 Montjuich Park 16th Retired: Driveshaft Here
03 Mar 1973 Kyalami 9th Retired: Blowout/Accident Here
11 Feb 1973 Interlagos 6th Retired: Suspension Here
28 Jan 1973 Buenos Aires 15th Retired: Suspension Here

Races for Williams
Date Circuit Qualified Finished Race Report
08 Oct 1972 Watkins Glen 15th Retired: Fuel Injection Here
24 Sep 1972 Mosport Park 18th 9th Here
10 Sep 1972 Monza 18th Retired: Hit By Regazzoni Here
13 Aug 1972 Osterreichring 18th Retired: NC Here
30 Jul 1972 Nurburgring 11th Retired: NC Here
15 Jul 1972 Brands Hatch 13th Retired: Hit Reutemann Here
02 Jul 1972 Clermont Ferrand 11th Retired: Engine Here
04 Jun 1972 Nivelles 11th 5th Here
14 May 1972 Monte Carlo 24th 17th Here
01 May 1972 Jarama 16th 6th Here
04 Mar 1972 Kyalami 24th 17th Here

[Felix Muelas]

Postnoff,

Can you read Spanish?
Because if you can I´ll direct you to a recent article of mine on Pace...but in Spanish, of course!

Felix

[fines]

A very bright talent and a sad loss for Grand Prix Racing, José Carlos Pace (born October 6, 1944 as the son of a wealthy textile industrialist) started out in those dreadful Brazilian "karts", where he regularily outpaced the Fittipaldi brothers, who like him stemmed from Sâo Paulo. Stepping up to Touring cars, Pace won the National Brazilian Championship three years in a row, 1967-69.

In 1970 he went to Europe, competing in British F3 and winning the BARC championship (Forward Trust), then stepping up to F2 with Frank Williams Racing Cars. The following year Frank let him drive his old F1 car and with it he usually outraced team leader Henri Pescarolo in the newer one, which soon made him hot property amongst F1 team managers.

John Surtees was the lucky one to pick him up, but their year-and-a-half partnership was blighted by mechanical unreliability and at the Dutch GP in 1974 he left the team even before practice began. Bernie Ecclestone was fast enough to present him with a contract in mid-season, and from now on he slowly eclipsed his new team leader Carlos Reutemann, although he still continued to be plagued by lots of bad luck.

In 1977, with the teething problems of the Alfa Romeo engine sorted, Pace looked a real championship contender until he decided to give the Race of Champions a miss to pursue some business interests in his native Brazil. On March 18, he died in a light plane crash along with Marivaldo Fernandes and Carlos Roberto de Oliveira between Mairipara and Atibaia in the vicinity of Sâo Paulo.

[cjpani]

Hey Felix, could you please direct me to you article on Carlos?
thx. in advance
cjpani

[jarama]

I'm right in remembering that the plane crash was when they were in a crocodile hunting?

[C F Eick]

Anyone who has more stories about Carlos Pace, please share them here. That he was a talent goes without saying, a guy who scores the fastest lap of the Nürburging (German GP 1973, 7.11,4 min) must be talented, mustn't he?

Perhaps a translation of your article Felix?

/C F Eick

[Postnoff]

OK. Thanks everybody.
If you remember something else - please post, don't be shy

Igor

[POLAR]

Exactly 25 years ago, one of my childhood heroes lost his life in a horrible plane crash. His name was José Carlos pace, Brabham driver, winner of the 1975 Brazilian Grand Prix and a certain future WDC. I was just 11 years old, but a big f1 fan already. It was a saturday morning, i was coming back from a pet store, got home and my mother told me, with a very sad expression: " you're are not going to like it, but Pace is dead". I just could not believe it. Maybe i still doesnt.
If you want to know more about him, heres a link:http://www.forix.com...5&r=7202022&c=0

[Leif Snellman]

25 years! It seems like yesterday!
Pryce 5/3 , Pace 18/3. That was bad times.
You see my avatar to the left. Who do you think made me a Brabham "fan"?

[POLAR]

Thats really sad. It really feels like yesterday.

Polar

[Barry Boor]

IMHO Carlos would have been World Champion within a few years.

Thank you for reminding us about this sad anniversary, POLAR.

[MarkWill]

I didn't realize that it was already 25 years. Sad indeed, as Pace was one of the people I was really getting into a few months ago when I was reading up on the seventies, when all of a sudden as you said, he died. According to what I read, he was the key person in the Brabham-Alfa program development, and his death was a real setback for the team. Strangely enough, like Tom Pryce, there's not a lot said about him. As Barry has said, he certainly had the talent to be a champion, and who knows what would have become of the Brabham-Alfa development if he had continued to be there?

[carlos.maza]

I remember him driving also for March and Surtees.... and winning the Brazilian GP in 1975 after JP Jarier had technical problems. I was 15 when he died.

He was fast by nature.

Sad day....

Carlos

[RDV]

Nice to know that " gone but not forgotten..", Carlos `Moco` Pace was one of Brasil`s great hopes, and for old timers in Brasil there was the Pace camp and there was the Fittipaldi camp, a great guy and a very quick driver, not very technical but beautifull to watch, his only defect was that a bit lazy on the physical fitness side (he could have won the Argentinean GP in the previous year but for that..) ...

[MarkWill]

Hi RDV,

You say that he wasn't very technical - do you mean his driving style, or his mechanical background? As I mentioned, he is credited (in the bits that I have read) with being the man behind the Brabham-Alfa development, but one is never sure if this means that he was the PR frontman, or he was actually developing the program? My impression of him is that he really enjoyed racing, and all of the stuff that goes with it - i.e. he wasn't a "careerist" but more an entheusiast. What was his opinion of Emerson Fittipaldi?

[RDV]

Pace`s driving style was very good , a pleasure to watch, but feedback and technical comprehension a bit low;it improved a lot in his f1 days, but around Peterson`s level

He and Wilson Fittipaldi were childhood friends , who got into racing together, being the mainstay of Willys-Renault works racing team in the 60`s (mainly driving the locally-built version of the Alpine A-108 "Interlagos", but also at Dacon , the local Porsche dealer , who fielded a brace of 4cyl Porsche enginedl VW Karmann-Guias) although both started racing earlier than Emerson they went to Europe 1 year later , and he had a very healthy respect for Emerson, but spent most of his time joshing the "kid" along with Wilson... more detals (in portuguese ....) and many photos on " GPTOTAL.com.br "
The South american group tended to travel together , it also included (in F2) Carlos "Lole " Reutemann and Carlos Ruesch...

[MarkWill]

Hi RDV,

This may be geting onto thin ice, but I imagine you are suggesting that Ronnie Peterson was more of a driver than a developer of a car - right? How much personnal contact did you have with the group?

Pace seems to have also been quite a competitor when he wanted to be - his car control is reported as being very good and he had more mechanical problems than he seemed to deserve.

By the way - I think Barry Boor (and myself) would be delighted if you had any pictures from your early experiences to post.

[Gary C]

Having just returned from Interlagos, I can tell you that there is a head and shoulders statue of Carlos just inside the main gates of the circuit. I specifically took a couple of pictures of it & will post them on my website in a few days and let you know. Interestingly, there isn't anything for Fittipaldi, Piquet or Senna anywhere at the circuit.

[RDV]

This may be geting onto thin ice, but I imagine you are suggesting that Ronnie Peterson was more of a driver than a developer of a car - right? How much personnal contact did you have with the group?

yes , a natural driver , he would drive around problems , but be incapable of analysing them, a gentleman also, & extremely competitive driver..... saw a thread about his rumored driving tactics being responsible for his death , and can state that no way , he was hard but fair, apart from that drivers from that period did not play around too much , it was too dangerous, specialy at monza; as to personal contact, quite a lot, but alas , not many photos, too busy....

[fines]

Originally posted by Gary C
Having just returned from Interlagos, I can tell you that there is a head and shoulders statue of Carlos just inside the main gates of the circuit. I specifically took a couple of pictures of it & will post them on my website in a few days and let you know. Interestingly, there isn't anything for Fittipaldi, Piquet or Senna anywhere at the circuit.

Presumably because it's the Autodromo José Carlos Pace?

[David M. Kane]

I know Carlos Pace was killed in a private aircraft crash, but I don't remember what his driving plans were for the next season. Can someone refresh my memory?

[Vitesse2]

The season was already three races old when Carlos died. He was again driving for Brabham, as he had in 1975 and 1976.

[Ray Bell]

IIRC (and sometimes I don't...) it was a helicopter crash...

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
IIRC (and sometimes I don't...) it was a helicopter crash...

Light aircraft I thought.

Bernie thought very highly of him - said something like "if I had still had Pace I wouldn't've needed Lauda" (or was it Piquet?). He had spent a lot of time and effort developing the Brabham-Alfas and seemed to be one of the better test drivers of his era... although I wonder how long he would've gone on, as if I recall rightly he was in his mid-30s at the time of his death?

pete

[jarama]

IIRC, was a light airplane crash, while he was in a crocodile hunting (or going to...) in the Amazonic Jungle.

Carles.

[MarkWill]

There was a thread about Carlos Pace around this time last year. IIRC (and based on what I've read) he was a naturally talented, very fast driver. He appears to have been less of a technical preson than perhaps pete has suggested, but (and here I'm quoting from memory) he was able to drive around any deficiencies that the car had - a sort of Jim Clark of the seventies. It's sad to know that another brazilian great was robbed from us.

[Mohican]

Well, with all due respect to Carlos Pace...when he and Reutemann were driving together at Martini Brabham in 1975-76, it was the latter who was universally referred to as "Big Carlos"...

Having said that, I always thought him a lot better than John Watson. The 1977 season could have turned out very differently with Pace leading the Brabham team rather than the hap- and luckless watson.

[550spyder]

Originally posted by jarama
IIRC, was a light airplane crash, while he was in a crocodile hunting (or going to...) in the Amazonic Jungle.

Carles.

It was a single engine plane. The plane took off from Campo de Marte, a executive aviation airport inside São Paulo City and crashed after a few minutes in Serra da Mantiqueira. The plane was owned by another brazilian driver Marivaldo Fernandes.

[Gary C]

don't know if any of you will be interested, but take a look at this page from my website : http://www.users.glo..._pace/index.htm , it's from my visit to Interlagos last year.

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by Mohican
Well, with all due respect to Carlos Pace...when he and Reutemann were driving together at Martini Brabham in 1975-76, it was the latter who was universally referred to as "Big Carlos"...

Surely that was just because Reutemann was taller than Pace?

[550spyder]

Originally posted by Vitesse2


Surely that was just because Reutemann was taller than Pace?

not quite. Pace was taller than Reutman I believe. Pace was a kind of a taller Montoya. Always on diet.

[David M. Kane]

In fact on more than one ocassion he was teased about his weight problem.
One year at Watkins Glen, one of the other drivers came by rubbing his stomach and said to Carlos he was looking a little heavy.

[neville mackay]

There is something deeply moving about posting my first ever reply to TNF on the subject of Carlos Pace, as he was one of my boyhood heroes and I was lucky enough to see him race on many occasions.

In my opinion he was an extremely talented driver - fast and smooth - and he also boasted one of the most imaginative helmet designs of the early 70's! But over and above all of this, he was - so far as I, a mere spectator could judge - a true gent. Let me tell a story which I hope illustrates the point...

In 1975 I was a spotty teenager with an obsession for collecting drivers autographs. I used to go to races armed with briefcases full of Autocourses and an index of pages on which drivers photographs appeared. At Silverstone in 75 I took a call of nature in the paddock loos, and much to my amazement, noticed that the great man was in the adjacent urinal. Shamelessly, I produced my copies of Autocourse and the man spent about 10 minutes signing every photo of him in my books. Eventually I left, but by then a crowd had gathered and Carlos was well and truly lumbered with a major autograph signing session. About 25 minutes later I happenned to pass the spot again and Carlos was still there, signing away! How many of today's heroes would do that?

Happy days and thanks to TNF for allowing me and so many others to relive them

Neville Mackay

[Pedro 917]

I met Pace after the Belgian GP in Zolder 1973 and took this picture of him wearing my "Rodriguez" deerstalker. Two years later, again at Zolder, I asked him to sign the picture that was in an album and he asked me if he could see all the pictures. We went inside a tent and for half an hour, I was commenting on all the pictures that I'd gathered since 1969. He showed much interest and made me feel very proud. And yes, how many of today's heroes would do that? He has left a deep impression.....

[David M. Kane]

Another time, another place, when men were men and car were real cars...

[WGD706]

Carlos Pace was a delightful fellow, and a racing driver of considerable natural talent and courage - as evidenced by his performance in qualifying at the 'Ring all those years ago. He had his day of days at Interlagos (now named in his honour, of course) in 1975, and, yes, you're right, he did deserve more than this one Grand Prix victory. On the other hand, I would venture to suggest that a guy like Chris Amon was a better driver than Pace by some margin - and poor Chris never even had that single GP win...

While Carlos was an extremely good F1 driver, with loads of flair, I think it fair to suggest he was less dedicated to racing than many of his contemporaries - his physical fitness, for example, frequently left something to be desired, and Grand Prix cars were much more 'physical' to drive in those days: there was no power steering, for example, and changing gear was still achieved by means of a clutch and a gear lever.

Partnered with Carlos Reutemann at Brabham in 1975 and '76, Pace was very often the quicker of the two, particularly during qualifying in the Alfa-powered cars in '76, but in part that stemmed from his willingness to drive the team's 'lightweight' qualifying car, which Reutemann wouldn't touch. Fundamentally, though, you'd have to say Reutemann was the better driver - indeed, when 'Lole' was really on it, he was as quick as anyone I have ever seen.

For 1977, Pace was joined in the Brabham-Alfa team (following Reutemann's departure to Ferrari) by Watson, but the partnership was still very much in its infancy when Carlos lost his life in a light aircraft accident in March. Although John didn't win a race that year, thanks primarily to the Brabham-Alfa's lousy reliability, he led a great many laps, and I'm sure the Pace-Watson partnership would have been a very strong one.

[David M. Kane]

Strictly by accident, I happened to be standing next to him on a Friday practice at the USGP at Watkins Glen when he was driving for Brabham and another driver came by rubbing his stomach as to point out pyschologically that Carlos wasn't in the best of shape. I think, but it was a long time ago, that it might have been Depailler, I might be wrong. He sure didn't
show in his driving! He seemed pretty laid back to me, a nice guy and fairly modest.

[WGD706]

I've heard rumors that Carlos did all the driving for Al Pacino in 'Bobby Deerfield' as Pacino couldn't drive a stick shift.
I have a few good photos of pace driving a Surtees at the Glen in '73. Seemed like a laid-back sort of person, as you said, none of the mood swings like Reutemann.

[Ralliart]

The way I understand it, when Bernie E. told Reutemann that he was considering going with Alfa Romeo power for the '76 season, he agreed with the Argentinian that if the new car proved faster with Ford power then Alfa Romeo power, he, Bernie, would go with Ford for '76. When the Ford-power car proved quicker but Bernie still went with Alfa Romeo for the Brabham's powerplant in 1976, Reutemann spent most of the season looking for a way out of the team even if it meant him paying for part of any contract buy-out.
Regards Pace, I don't think he raced long enough at the top - or left enough memorable races behind - for me to elevate him to some legend. I think there is tendency to, perhaps, elevate drivers to a status they mat or not have attained had it not been for a life-ending tragedy (relatively)early on in a career. I'm not saying such inspection is wrong by any stretch and I read these threads as much as the next guy. Guinti is another to whom super-powers have been attributed yet, when push came to shove, it was Mario Andretti to whom the Ferrari team manager turned when he wanted a driver to drive balls-to-the-wall at Sebring '70 - and to replace Guinti who was sitting in the car. It's all relative. A Guinti fan might take that to mean that Guinti was tired or that, sure, Andretti replaced him, he knew the track very well, etc. My take is that Andretti was the quickest guy on the team.
Regards Pace and Bobby Deerfield. I have the racing scenes from that flick on tape but an a PAL format but I think there are some in-car scenes of Pacino driving the Brabham at speed. I'd have to check.

[David M. Kane]

I remember as a talented F1 driver who died tragically in a small plane accident. I, however, don't remember much about his career in lesser formula. How did he do in F3 and F2? How did he get to England on his own or with some backing?

[WHITE]

Hi David,
Here you can find some interesting information about José Carlos Pace :

http://www.research-...CarlosPace1.htm

[Bill Becketts]

The one thing I remember about Pace, was his helmet design.

The "Arrow" on the front of his helmet always pointed down during previous seasons, but during the "Off season" 1974-75 while at home in Brazil, he spoke to a Witch Doctor (As you do...) and was told that an Arrow pointing downwards was bad luck....

So Carlos had the arrow reversed and ......lo and behold,he won his first Grand Prix!

BUT...... before he could make more of his new found luck.... he took some Flying lessons

Why do I feel a "Twinny" reply to this.......

[Jorge Felix]

Originally posted by Bill Becketts
The one thing I remember about Pace, was his helmet design.

The "Arrow" on the front of his helmet always pointed down during previous seasons, but during the "Off season" 1974-75 while at home in Brazil, he spoke to a Witch Doctor (As you do...) and was told that an Arrow pointing downwards was bad luck....

So Carlos had the arrow reversed and ......lo and behold,he won his first Grand Prix!

BUT...... before he could make more of his new found luck.... he took some Flying lessons

Why do I feel a "Twinny" reply to this.......

At Watkins Glen Carlos Pace didn't have the front arrows at his helmet design. So that
conversation with the Witch Doctor was during the off-season 1974-75 or before the end
of the 1974 season ?

[WHITE]

Originally posted by Jorge Felix


At Watkins Glen Carlos Pace didn't have the front arrows at his helmet design. So that
conversation with the Witch Doctor was during the off-season 1974-75 or before the end
of the 1974 season ?

Pace, stopped having the arrow at his helmet at the USA 1974 GP. The race was held at the 6th of october, Pace's 30th birthday.
He later told a friend that he had dreamt about his father the night before and that
he had told him that an arrow ponting downwards was a sign of bad luck. Then, Pace jumped out the bed and with a razor blade stripped out the arrow from his helmet.
Pace, finished second after Reutemann. He received instructions from the pit to keep the position in order to guarantee a Brabham 1 and 2 podium. During the race Pace had two of his ribs broken.

[zakeriath]

Very friendly and approachable



Very tragic period for F1 coming so soon after Tom Pryce`s death

[Greatest]

I somehow remember that Pedro Diniz had a helmet design surprisingly similar to the one of Moco's...

[Paul Taylor]

Mmmm

[f1steveuk]

My old boss (Bernie Ecclestone) still has Pace's BT44, exactly as it was last driven by Moco. I was allowed to sit in it, and was staggered how tall he must have been, I had to stretch quite hard to touch the pedals, and I'm 5' 8ish. The car is a little time capsule, if only BCE would let people see what he still has

[David M. Kane]

Unfortunately doesn't care about people unless they have something they want or they have lots of money. He couldn't care less about the average race fan...