172 replies to this topic

[paulrobs]

I'd have preferred Webber to win the championship rather than Vettel but I'm not going to let that preference stand in the way of reason.

You'd have to say that over the course of the season, which also includes the last two races, Vettel has been better than Webber. When it really mattered, when all the pressure of the championship was at it's greatest and when it was time to drive like a champion, Vettel achieved and Webber didn't. I remember Damon Hill saying how proud he was of his win in '96 because he was able to perform to his best under such great pressure at the end. This was despite having such a bad season in '95 too.

At the end of the Brazil race I felt that Red Bull should probably on balance have gifted the win to Webber to maximise his chance of clinching it at the last race. Trouble is, it didn't make a blind bit of difference because Mark couldn't do it when he really neded to do it. Vettel on the other hand did so hats off to him.

Mark's consolation will be that he run his well regarded teammate very very close and on occasions beat him. He put up a great challenge but ultimately he fell just a little short. There was no doubt that he was less favoured than Vettel but for crying out loud, that's just life. I've had employers that have liked me and I've had ones that don't. I've tried to change their mind by out performing their expectations and when that failed I just left and went on to (hopefully) something better.

He needs to stick with it next year and make the most of it and not blame the team all the time. If he can't do that then it's probably time to leave. Personally I hope he stays there and comes back next year even more determined and wins the championship. This year however he wasn't quite good enough and that's the way it is.

[BrabJackham]

It was the track at fault - if alonso in a ferrai couldn't pass a newbie driver in a renault, what hope did webber have of passing alonso?

By your definition, alonso also sat there and did nothing.

True! But then he shouldnt critizise other drivers not being able to do anything against strong opponents.
Besides. The race started on Saturday. Vettel qualified 1st. Webber qualified where? 5. or 6. while he needed to qualify 2. or at least 3rd.

[Black Widow]

The consolation thread is hardly more than a collection of excuses for the Webber fans and an opportunity to invent more conspiracy theories for those with more lively imagination. But the game can be played from both sides. I was prepared to give Mark Webber credit as a WDC if he had pulled it off in the the last round. He didn't and so this story was never written. Instead we wade through an ocean of self illusion which I'm not prepared to support. After a brief lip service to the man who beat their hero convincingly in the same equipment the Webber supporters fill pages after pages with their grief and crying. It needs a bit of counter balancing.

Oh my goodness, do you at times even read what you have written?

I am laughing my head off so much here that I am finding this hard to type.

"excuses", "conspiracy theories", "lively imaginations", "self illusion", "grief and crying" counter balanced with what? Fanboy delusions.



P.S. sorry to everyone that has WhiteBlue on ignore that I have quoted this post but I find it incomprehensible that someone would go to this extent in what is clearly titled a consolation thread. Sorry again everyone, maybe I should use that ignore button too!

[WhiteBlue]

Tonight on Servus TV in Austria




The Red Bull drivers had their chat after the Adb Dhabi race. And they have reconciled their differences.

[metz]

Sadly for MW when he finally got the best car of his career he also got the best team mate of his career.

Statisticly, not quite correct.
Vettel had 6% more points than Webber.
Heidfeld had 28% more points than Webber.

On heart alone I wanted Mark to win. But yesterday he just drove an awful race. I counted 5 or 6 driving errors that he should not have made, not including asking to come in early to change tyres. He seemed to have lost the will to win after qual in Abu Dhabi. I think it highly unfair for some fans to desperately blame the team for his loss. Yes we had Turkey and the wing thing but we also had Sebs poor reliability. That evened things up. The rest was just down to driver performance, and in that department, Vettel had considerable more smarts and speed.

[kanec]

God bless Mark Webber. Without him this would not have been possible:

checked in dubai.receptionist was shocked when she saw passport.some1stuck britney in my passport.no idea who http://plixi.com/p/57112914

[Eff One 2002]

I do hope Mark stays on it, for who knows what next year brings....Mark could well still win the title in 2011!

Here's hoping.

[Tenmantaylor]

Indeed, Mark could win next year but I think Vettel is more likely to improve than Mark but still anything can happen in F1, and it usually does. The immortal words of Murray rang true on sunday.

Mark had his golden chance in Korea. Had he not spun and went on to win the race he could've afforded a DNF in Abu Dhabi, Alonso finish 5th and even with a Vettel Win he would have taken the title by 7 pts from Vettel. For this reason Mark can't be too aggrieved, he had his golden chance and slipped up.

I'd have preferred Webber to win the championship rather than Vettel but I'm not going to let that preference stand in the way of reason.

You'd have to say that over the course of the season, which also includes the last two races, Vettel has been better than Webber. When it really mattered, when all the pressure of the championship was at it's greatest and when it was time to drive like a champion, Vettel achieved and Webber didn't. I remember Damon Hill saying how proud he was of his win in '96 because he was able to perform to his best under such great pressure at the end. This was despite having such a bad season in '95 too.

At the end of the Brazil race I felt that Red Bull should probably on balance have gifted the win to Webber to maximise his chance of clinching it at the last race. Trouble is, it didn't make a blind bit of difference because Mark couldn't do it when he really neded to do it. Vettel on the other hand did so hats off to him.

Mark's consolation will be that he run his well regarded teammate very very close and on occasions beat him. He put up a great challenge but ultimately he fell just a little short. There was no doubt that he was less favoured than Vettel but for crying out loud, that's just life. I've had employers that have liked me and I've had ones that don't. I've tried to change their mind by out performing their expectations and when that failed I just left and went on to (hopefully) something better.

He needs to stick with it next year and make the most of it and not blame the team all the time. If he can't do that then it's probably time to leave. Personally I hope he stays there and comes back next year even more determined and wins the championship. This year however he wasn't quite good enough and that's the way it is.

Well said, my opinion too

Edited by Tenmantaylor, 16 November 2010 - 00:37.

[SeanValen]

Before this year no one was talking about him as they've done this year.

He was written off like Button years ago.

Some drivers are just not consistent all of the time.. But they have good years in some cars. Button had that in 2009. Webber had a crack in 2010.

Either way better to have had a chance then to not have had a chance at all. I do wish he could of had a better last race as there just seemed no venom from a guy who wants the title so much, thats what he'll find disappointing the most, not just losing the title, but not being on the pace to fight in the last round.

Edited by SeanValen, 16 November 2010 - 00:45.

[Dmitriy_Guller]

+1

Webber is usually nice as a person, but so are DC, and Rubens.

Is Webber actually nice? He comes across as quite unpleasant and difficult to get along with.

[DILLIGAF]

I'd have preferred Webber to win the championship rather than Vettel but I'm not going to let that preference stand in the way of reason.

You'd have to say that over the course of the season, which also includes the last two races, Vettel has been better than Webber. When it really mattered, when all the pressure of the championship was at it's greatest and when it was time to drive like a champion, Vettel achieved and Webber didn't. I remember Damon Hill saying how proud he was of his win in '96 because he was able to perform to his best under such great pressure at the end. This was despite having such a bad season in '95 too.

At the end of the Brazil race I felt that Red Bull should probably on balance have gifted the win to Webber to maximise his chance of clinching it at the last race. Trouble is, it didn't make a blind bit of difference because Mark couldn't do it when he really neded to do it. Vettel on the other hand did so hats off to him.

Mark's consolation will be that he run his well regarded teammate very very close and on occasions beat him. He put up a great challenge but ultimately he fell just a little short. There was no doubt that he was less favoured than Vettel but for crying out loud, that's just life. I've had employers that have liked me and I've had ones that don't. I've tried to change their mind by out performing their expectations and when that failed I just left and went on to (hopefully) something better.

He needs to stick with it next year and make the most of it and not blame the team all the time. If he can't do that then it's probably time to leave. Personally I hope he stays there and comes back next year even more determined and wins the championship. This year however he wasn't quite good enough and that's the way it is.

I agree with all you say apart from blame the team "all the time" bit. He did make it known he wanted equal treatment mid year & i believe he did get equal treatment following Silverstone. But his comments were directed at team management (Marko) not the entire team whom he has always acknowledged, praised & thanked.

He had his chances but like you say Seb was better when it mattered & that's what wins championships.

Mark said yesterday "Seb got the timing right & you've got to take your hat off to him. He's done a great job all year"

Hats off to both of them for what they achieved this year.

Edited by DILLIGAF, 16 November 2010 - 01:46.

[Black Widow]

Is Webber actually nice? He comes across as quite unpleasant and difficult to get along with.

To approximately quote the words of Murray Walker and Sir Sterling Moss in the BBC show prior to Sundays' race:

"the nicest guy in the paddock" (or similar words to that effect)

Maybe someone who has a copy of the pre-race show could check for the exact wording. Thanks.

[unoc]

Really impressed nwith how Webber dealt with it, most drives come down the order in a race and are complaining about stratergies, and how the tyres weren't working ofr him and this and that. But even after losing the championship to his greatest rival, his teammate and finishing down the order it took well, I was thoroughly impressed with Mark Webber.

[repcobrabham]

as stated previously on this BB, i did a phone interview with him at the end of 2006 for an article i wrote for a magazine in early 2007 and found him to be a nice and genuine guy (not to mention EXTREMELY punctual - i've never before or since had an interviewee call me a minute before the agreed time!). the only caveat i'd put on that is that he also came across as a bit tense and uptight: not in an obvious or deliberate way, but just not as cool and relaxed as i think he'd like to project. i wrote that 'you wouldn't want him next to you at the bar* but you would want him next to you in the trenches'.

*he doesn't drink beer and rarely touches alcohol, despite owning the local pub in buckinghamshire.

[Alfisti]

as stated previously on this BB, i did a phone interview with him at the end of 2006 for an article i wrote for a magazine in early 2007 and found him to be a nice and genuine guy (not to mention EXTREMELY punctual - i've never before or since had an interviewee call me a minute before the agreed time!). the only caveat i'd put on that is that he also came across as a bit tense and uptight: not in an obvious or deliberate way, but just not as cool and relaxed as i think he'd like to project. i wrote that 'you wouldn't want him next to you at the bar* but you would want him next to you in the trenches'.

*he doesn't drink beer and rarely touches alcohol, despite owning the local pub in buckinghamshire.

That's been my impression of him.

[DILLIGAF]

That's been my impression of him.

Ditto

[Carsten]

QUOTE (engel @ Nov 15 2010, 21:00)
Or Mark just wasn't fast enough to take the fight to Alonso ... I mean anybody with half a brain could see Mark couldn't put the power down out of the slow corners, which gave Alonso a big gap in the straights ... Do we really need to turn everything into a conspiracy?

^This. Mark simply didn't have the pace i'm afraid.

Also true that Alonso didn't have the pace to take it to Petrov.........

Anyway, with regards to equality, can anyone tell me how often Mark got the last run in qualifying - especially in the second half of the year? My impression was - not often.

[Kelateboy]

In the end he cost himself the WDC in Korea so he knows where he has to improve next year.

Great season he should be proud.

Webber tightened up in the last 5-6 races, and was 2nd best to his teammate during this stretch. However, his mistake in Korea cost him the championship.

[sanjiro]

QUOTE (engel @ Nov 15 2010, 21:00)
Or Mark just wasn't fast enough to take the fight to Alonso ... I mean anybody with half a brain could see Mark couldn't put the power down out of the slow corners, which gave Alonso a big gap in the straights ... Do we really need to turn everything into a conspiracy?



Also true that Alonso didn't have the pace to take it to Petrov.........

Anyway, with regards to equality, can anyone tell me how often Mark got the last run in qualifying - especially in the second half of the year? My impression was - not often.

In the last 5 races MW got the final run in Q only once and that was by doing 2 fast laps and staying out longer.

Its all irrelevant however.
It would appear MW is staying with RBR for 2011.
Something that truly surprises me.

Either MW was putting on a whole hysterical routine for the media but was in fact happy with RBR.
Or he has given up on the F1 WDC and individual glory to take the No2 badge firmly in both hands.
(which if it was the only drive available then who could deny him the pay day)

[tze]

As an aussie - I am sorry that webber didn't get there.. Unfortunately, he didn't keep his momentum up vs vettel

I do think he has done himself proud though:
* Getting past the true/untrue mental barrier that he is/was no2. post having his front wing taken away
* Being a heck of alot heavier than Vettel hence impacting weight balance -

[engel]

QUOTE (engel @ Nov 15 2010, 21:00)
Or Mark just wasn't fast enough to take the fight to Alonso ... I mean anybody with half a brain could see Mark couldn't put the power down out of the slow corners, which gave Alonso a big gap in the straights ... Do we really need to turn everything into a conspiracy?



Also true that Alonso didn't have the pace to take it to Petrov.........

Anyway, with regards to equality, can anyone tell me how often Mark got the last run in qualifying - especially in the second half of the year? My impression was - not often.

The first part (the part you are quoting me) was in response to a conspiracy theory that Mark wasn't attacking Alonso cause he didn't want to help Vettel ;)

Second part, don't know off the top of my head, but does it make a difference? Most of the time "last" means half a lap difference, not enough time for track conditions to change drastically. Or at all. And beyond that, some drivers actually prefer to not deal with the stress of beating a set time, they perform better just going out and delivering the fastest lap they can without the stress of I got to beat this time. Other drivers perform better looking at deltas. Do you know which Mark prefers?

Edited by engel, 16 November 2010 - 14:48.

[weston]

Good to read this: "There are also signs that Webber has been patching up his strained relationship with his young team-mate. They travelled on the same plane from Abu Dhabi for the Red Bull title celebrations in Salzburg, and Coulthard was there to witness it.

He said: I know they spent a whole hour after the race in the drivers' room talking it all over, which from Sebastian's perspective is quite a thing when you have just won the world championship and everyone is outside getting drunk.

Coulthard said that on the plane: Sebastian and Mark sat next to each other and dozed and talked."

Edit: source and pictures: http://en.espnf1.com...tory/34539.html

Edited by weston, 16 November 2010 - 14:52.

[flyer121]

More signs of thaw in relations

http://www.planetf1....-his-head-high-