35 replies to this topic

[flyer121]

Looking at all the hype about RB6 superiority this season, it seems that a lot of people are not happy with one car dominating.
Even though I feel its more than just the car and car + driver is the right way to quantify domination , I sorta agree that any kind of domination takes away from the sport and more competition is always healthy.
Some may argue that last season was close even with a superstrrong team like RBR... but I disagree , 2010 turned out to be exciting because of other factors , otherwise both Bulls could have made it into a really boring season.


Anyway I was wondering if we can bring in some type of Handicap system as we see in horse races where top horses are padded with weights to level the playing field.

One way is to class the cars in grades 1 to 5 based on last year's WCC standings
but there are two issues here
First, I feel that to really level the playing field we need to take the car + driver combo.
Second , because of the constant development the grade 1 cars can easily become grade 3 and thus be at a disadvantage even when the car is no longer the best.

So my idea is to have weight applied on the basis of last race finish positions.

Give the last race winner 25 KGs extra ballast
Give the last race second 18 KGs extra ballast
Give the last race third 15 KGs extra ballast
...
...
and so on till 10th position adding weights equal to the points earned last race.

All the non points & DNF guys get no extra weight for the next race. Perhaps back-markers (& new teams ) can receive a weight reduction based on some criteria to make it even better for them.

This will even things out a bit among top teams and help the mid fielders / new teams to actually play some meaningful part in the races.
I feel is a lot less artificial than reversed grid positions which was considered seriously.

One downside is that we will not get to see the true pace of drivers because of all the handicaps etc... but IMO it will be a small price to pay.

So What do you guys think? Please suggest alternative methods if it can achieve bunching up the field.

Edited by flyer121, 23 November 2010 - 13:06.

[Kraken]

Why bother?

If other teams are slow it's up to them to get their finger out and build a better car.

There are plenty of handicapped series people can follow if they don't like the way F1 works. It's far from the only show in town.

[Dunder]

No thanks. "Bunching up" the field is not what I want to see, there is already too much homolgation, equalisation and restriction in the current regulations.

[MikeTekRacing]

no thanks

[flyer121]

Why bother?

If other teams are slow it's up to them to get their finger out and build a better car.

There are plenty of handicapped series people can follow if they don't like the way F1 works. It's far from the only show in town.

That is one way to look at things ..

But I was honestly put off F1 during Schumi era and always thought that it needed to be sorted.

FIA tried in different ways like cutting testing for dominant teams but ended up hurting new teams as well , so we are back to square one.

Especially silly is the state of the new teams who practically play no part at all, and their drivers skill is judged by how quickly they can jump out of the way !

[Fastcake]

No. It may work in Touring cars, but not F1.

[unoc]

no because its falsly tries tries to even it out. It's about all teams have an equal opportunity to make the car and all drivers have an equal chance to win. As soon as you drag down on enad boost another you end up with slower drivers winning not because thye are better or not because the team is better, but because the othe guy has something like 1 second of weights stuck to his car.

[flyer121]

no because its falsly tries tries to even it out. It's about all teams have an equal opportunity to make the car and all drivers have an equal chance to win. As soon as you drag down on enad boost another you end up with slower drivers winning not because thye are better or not because the team is better, but because the othe guy has something like 1 second of weights stuck to his car.

But this system is still equal opportunity to all isnt it?

Best team will still win the WDC but It will ensure that no one driver wins 5 races on the trot and close the title fight half way thru the season.

[BenettonB192]

Handicap rules are crap. Always hated them.

[sosidge]

No. It may work in Touring cars, but not F1.

Doesn't even work in touring cars.

'Tis another suggestion that is against the spirit of racing.

Write a set of consistent rules, let the teams build the best car they can within them, and let the drivers race them.

If someone builds a better car or a driver is faster - congratulate them. Don't try and nobble them.

[Barky]

Why would teams pay tens of millions in development just to have the cars artificially equalized? Why not just have a spec series then?

[bauss]

no thx

[Gridfire]

If we're equalising cars, then F1 stops being F1 - technology and development are a lot of what F1 is about.

The Constructors Championship is taken seriously by the teams themselves, even if the general media only cares about the Drivers Championship. This year the Redbull was clearly the best and yet they only managed to narrowly beat McLaren due to many and varied mistakes by their drivers and due to various faults with the car, it's brakes or it's engine. That's competition!

[Hairpin]

How about:
The car finishing 10th last race finishes 1st
The car finishing 9th last race finishes 2nd
The car finishing 8th last race finishes 3rd
and so on.
Cars finishing outside top 10 get free pizza but has to skip next race, unless they make a re-buy.

[flyer121]

Didnt know we have so many people seriously looking forward to a hard core technical development race !!

But you all make fair points and if we are lucky as we were in 2010 - we wouldn't need any such system ! But I doubt RBR will make stupid errors next year..

[Clatter]

If you want to watch a series where the cars are equal then watch a spec series. Whilst one car dominating is not great viewing it is very much the nature of F1 and the whole idea of handicapping the cars goes against the spirit of competition.

[Hairpin]

I have come across a prototype of Charlie's control unit for next season. I think we will see some very exciting races!

[Clatter]

I have come across a prototype of Charlie's control unit for next season. I think we will see some very exciting races!

Where's the destruct button?

[Hairpin]

Where's the destruct button?

I did not get the complete manual, but it is probably the one below "brake balance". It might also be that the buttons and knobs will be randomly assigned so that Race Control will not actually know exactly what happens when they use them the first time. This is to somewhat reduce the effects of biased mastering.

Edit: It is indeed the button I mentioned, it says "Mute" and I do not think it means that Kimi will suddenly take over the car.

Edited by Hairpin, 23 November 2010 - 14:57.

[panzani]

Do some of you think Usain Bolt should use some ballast as well?

[Jackmancer]

I hate the principle of being punished for winning.

[Kucki]

Punishing success is a terrible idea.

[noikeee]

I hate the principle of being punished for winning.

/thread

This idea is what makes WTCC, FIA GT, and other similar series unwatchable to me.

[faaaz]

No, it shouldn't be a social welfare system.

infact, they should find a way to exploit driver inequality, which will lead to more overtaking through differences in skill levels ( manual gearbox etc)

BACK TO THE NORDSCHLEIFE

[Cenotaph]

this is not what f1 is supposed to be. building a dominating car is part of it, if the others cant do it with their massive budgets, then too bad

[undersquare]

Too many seasons have been dominated by various levels of cheating, by Max/Ferrari/FIA.

Things got approved then mysteriously banned - Mac kers, Lotus 88, fiddle pedal, mass damper.

Bridgestone blatantly helped Ferrari. Michelin were thrown out.

Even this year we had the flexi floors and wings that were somehow not flexi even when they were dragging along the ground. Pirelli have visited Ferrari.

Ferrari get an extra $60m or something from FoM.

The rules are deliberately so badly worded the interpretation changes all the time, like team orders and aero bodywork.

The sport just needs:

1. No favouritism, fair governance.
2. A big rule change every couple of years.

Then the most successful teams get their staff poached, they need to repeat the inventive brilliance, they get copied...and so things even out over time.

Things are already a lot better, we have most of this now, just need a bit more...

[Szoelloe]

handicap system? forget it. would never work in f1

[Rob]

Handicapping is something I never want to see in the sport.

[Crazy Ninja]

Is this the first ever thread where everybody agrees? *Faints*

[Jackmancer]

Ferrari get an extra $60m or something from FoM.

The rules are deliberately so badly worded the interpretation changes all the time, like team orders and aero bodywork.

As far as I know FoM doesn't make the rules though.

[flyer121]

Is this the first ever thread where everybody agrees? *Faints*

Except the OP, that is !
but still amazing - I have seen real crazy ideas getting some support

EDIT: And to think , I wrote a real long post to flesh out the idea ... Embarrassing really !

I imagine what a poll would have looked like 100 NOs vs 1 YES

We can take a sociology lesson from this though ... that people are fiercely competitive at heart and consider that free markets is still the best system of governance !

Edited by flyer121, 23 November 2010 - 17:21.

[David M. Kane]

Jackmancer:

I'm with you, I'm sick of parity in sports...particularly the NFL. You can take diversity and stuff that too. Can we PLEASE have something in the World unspoiled by bloodly Politicians and sneaky Machiavellians. PLEASE!

[Crazy Ninja]

Except the OP, that is !

but still amazing - I have seen real crazy ideas getting some support

Oh yeah! I agree with everyone else, its a gimmicky solution and distills the racing in addition to punishing those who do the best job.

[Fastcake]

Is this the first ever thread where everybody agrees? *Faints*

You know this means the powers that be will now implement it right?

[wewantourdarbyback]

Is this the first ever thread where everybody agrees? *Faints*

Nah, that was this one http://forums.autosp...howtopic=139003

[Crazy Ninja]

Nah, that was this one http://forums.autosp...howtopic=139003

*Faints again* I think i need a break from the forum, things are changing too quickly and i dont like where they're going!