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Ilse Pietsch


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#1 JoBo

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Posted 23 November 2010 - 15:32

Does anybody know what happened with Ilse Pietsch, ex wife of German prewar driver Paul Pietsch and later lover of Achille Varzi?.

JoBo

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#2 paulhooft

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Posted 23 November 2010 - 15:50

Does anybody know what happened with Ilse Pietsch, ex wife of German prewar driver Paul Pietsch and later lover of Achille Varzi?.

JoBo


Paul Pietsch (1911) is still with us!

#3 Stefan Schmidt

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Posted 23 November 2010 - 16:07

Paul Pietsch (1911) is still with us!


He is the oldest F1 driver who is still allive

#4 Tim Murray

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 07:38

She features in many earlier threads, especially:

Ilse Pietsch

Achille Varzi

In the latter thread there is this post from Dr Aldo Zana, who has done a lot of research into Varzi and Ilse:

Plain talk is fun and opinions are fascinating.
On my part, I'd like to add some facts I came through in my extensive research on Varzi, made it easier by living in Milano (some 25 miles from his hometown Galliate). Some results of the researches are in the exhibit on Varzi currently open in the Galliate Castle (exhibit which I did together with my friend and designer Marzo Zannoni), in my article published in the Ruoteclassiche magazine and in some speeches I delivered on the subject.

Just a few proven facts:
1. Ilse was not at Tripoli 1936 GP.
2. Pietsch biography calls her Ilse Engel, born 1911 in Wiesbaden, then married to a Herr Hubach in Frankfurt before marrying him. We also know that, after Pietsch, she got married again with a Herr Franz Feininger, an opera singer living in Berlin. Pietsch also confirms that she died in Berlin after the war. I called Public Registrar Offices in Wiesbaden, Berlin, Freiburg i/B, Stuttgart: I learned that, while in Italy data recorded in such an Office are public (by definition) and open to everybody, Germany applies the Privacy Law even to the birth date and name of a person, both living or dead: personal data, apparently, could only be asked for by the relevant person, his/her wife/husband, sons. Nevertheless, I got answers from Berlin and Wiesbaden: no person with such a name was ever born in Wiesbaden, no person with such a name was dead in Berlin after 1945. So, where is the point for Pietsch to allow the writing of apparently false information, and why does he still refuse to speak on the subject, after 68 years and at his grand age?
3. No one of the rather distant relatives of Achille Varzi, still living in Milano, wants to talk about him.
4. In the Chemnitz State Archives, the file on Varzi is under privacy cover for at least a couple of decades.
5. Drugs were very common within elitarian environments: its presence in the motor race world should haven't been taken as a deadly sin at all.
6. To steal someone else's wife/girlfriend was, again, not so uncommon within racing fraternity: let's think about Rudi Caracciola and Alice Trobeck.
7. When I met Elly Beinhorn (and also in a long, taped interview dating back to 1986) she talked freely about all women of her motor racing word, but refused to say a word on Ilse.
8. Varzi was canceled from Italian social life and motor world with such a brutality, which seems rather unjustified.

Therefore, beyond the usual words taken/written by someone else's talk or script, there should be something more behind Ilse.

I built an unproven theory, which could be either destroyed or strenghtened by comments of people of different culture and approaches. Please, have a careful look at those photos of Ilse, already posted here. Ask women and girls you trust to describe how do they feel looking at that creature and how would they depict the sex-appeal.
Maybe, now my comment with that "Lady" into brackets could appear less enigmatic: apologise for that.
Many thanks for any contribution.



#5 Gabrci

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 22:32

Is anyone brave enough to write an e-mail to Pietsch's son?

#6 gommaire

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 07:50

Gentlemen,

give me his email adress and I ask him (maybe PM), I speak fluently german and I am brave enough :)

ah and maybe a short list of questions I should ask!

all the best

Gommaire



#7 JoBo

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 17:34

Gentlemen,

give me his email adress and I ask him (maybe PM), I speak fluently german and I am brave enough :)

ah and maybe a short list of questions I should ask!

all the best

Gommaire

Simon Moore sent a letter to Paul Pietsch via his son 3 or 4 years ago and never got a reply.

But P.P. was not the issue of this thread.

Question still is: who knows what happened with Ilse Pietsch after her affair with Varzi. What did she do in the postwar yars and 50s? When did she die?


JoBo


#8 Otto Grabe

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 09:25

Question still is: who knows what happened with Ilse Pietsch after her affair with Varzi. What did she do in the postwar yars and 50s? When did she die?
JoBo


A partly answer...

http://formula1history.com/people.htm
Quote: "In March of 1939 Hans Stuck came across Ilse in Munich. Destitute she asked Stuck for money to purchase a forged Italian passport so that she could get into Italy and be with her lover, who by that time had abandoned her. Later that evening a waiter at Stuck's hotel informed the German driver of a tragic suicide attempt. Isle had been found unconscious in the street, wearing only a pink nightdress, murmuring a strange Greek-sounding name - Achille. Thankfully she was able to recover from her addiction as was Varzi, both with the help of others."

#9 JoBo

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 13:03

A partly answer...

http://formula1history.com/people.htm
Quote: "In March of 1939 Hans Stuck came across Ilse in Munich. Destitute she asked Stuck for money to purchase a forged Italian passport so that she could get into Italy and be with her lover, who by that time had abandoned her. Later that evening a waiter at Stuck's hotel informed the German driver of a tragic suicide attempt. Isle had been found unconscious in the street, wearing only a pink nightdress, murmuring a strange Greek-sounding name - Achille. Thankfully she was able to recover from her addiction as was Varzi, both with the help of others."

uhhh! ...she really was poison! Would be interesting to know what happened to hear in the 50s!

JoBo




#10 Marticelli

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 13:19

uhhh! ...she really was poison!

JoBo


Funny that... she spoke very highly of you!!

#11 P.Dron

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 13:21

Some time in the late 1970s, when I was on the staff of Motor magazine, I was given the task of driving Peter-Paul Pietsch to various events in Britain. He was ostensibly doing a stage/work experience thing at Motor, which had been arranged at a high level, but it was quite obvious that he was there for the purposes of 'research'. I knew then about the Varzi story and perhaps I should have said, on the way to Mallory Park for example, "Tell me about Ilse."

Why IPC refused to sell Autocar to motor presse is unclear, but the Germans were certainly annoyed not to have been offered the opportunity to buy it. Then, later, motor presse bought Fast Lane. This was known among the British captives as Operation Sealion 2. But don't get me started on that...



#12 gommaire

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 14:10

Ok gentlemen,

I got the email adress! What can I ask?

I thought thinks like, what happened to Ilse, (in the '50s) where did she die, how long has Mr Pietsch been in contact with her...
where does she come from, whats her real name...

should I start directly with our questions or should I first ask something about his father...?

more qustions welcome!

Ciao

Gommaire

#13 kayemod

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 16:24

Ok gentlemen,

I got the email adress! What can I ask?

I thought thinks like, what happened to Ilse, (in the '50s) where did she die, how long has Mr Pietsch been in contact with her...
where does she come from, whats her real name...

should I start directly with our questions or should I first ask something about his father...?

more qustions welcome!

Ciao

Gommaire


No, leave him to pass his remaining days in peace. You won't get any response, and I'm sure it's an episode of his past life that he doesn't want to be reminded about.

#14 JoBo

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 16:35

Funny that... she spoke very highly of you!!

A good girls get to heaven - a bad girl goes everywhere!

JoBo


#15 D-Type

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 17:43

Ok gentlemen,

I got the email adress! What can I ask?

I thought thinks like, what happened to Ilse, (in the '50s) where did she die, how long has Mr Pietsch been in contact with her...
where does she come from, whats her real name...

should I start directly with our questions or should I first ask something about his father...?

more qustions welcome!

Ciao

Gommaire

Keep it simple.

Say that you are an amateur motor racing historian and that you are interested in finding out what happened to his father's former wife, Ilse, and would be grateful for any information he may have. (I don't know, but I assume he is the son of a second marriage and isn't Ilse's son inwhich case he probably knows very little). And finish by saying you appreciate the situation and don't want to open old wounds or upset his father in any way.

#16 Tim Murray

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 18:14

A partly answer...

http://formula1history.com/people.htm
Quote: "In March of 1939 Hans Stuck came across Ilse in Munich. Destitute she asked Stuck for money to purchase a forged Italian passport so that she could get into Italy and be with her lover, who by that time had abandoned her. Later that evening a waiter at Stuck's hotel informed the German driver of a tragic suicide attempt. Isle had been found unconscious in the street, wearing only a pink nightdress, murmuring a strange Greek-sounding name - Achille. Thankfully she was able to recover from her addiction as was Varzi, both with the help of others."

I'm guessing this story is based on what Alfred Neubauer wrote in his very unreliable memoirs. Neubauer also seems to be the source for the story which has now become widely accepted, that Ilse persuaded Varzi to take morphine for the first time at the Tripoli GP of 1936. However, Dr Aldo Zana (see above) says he can prove that Ilse was not in Tripoli when that race took place. I think we ought to regard anything coming from Neubauer with great suspicion - he was never one to let the facts get in the way of a good story.

#17 kayemod

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 18:22

...I think we ought to regard anything coming from Neubauer with great suspicion - he was never one to let the facts get in the way of a good story.


Tim is right, and I think that schlafende Hunde should be allowed to lie.


#18 Vitesse2

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 18:41

I'm very much with Tim and Rob on this and would trust Aldo Zana's research over Neubauer every time. The fact that he "changed" the names of the characters in his book could easily be an indication that much or all of the story therein is pure fiction.

#19 Gabrci

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 19:26

Keep it simple.

Say that you are an amateur motor racing historian and that you are interested in finding out what happened to his father's former wife, Ilse, and would be grateful for any information he may have. (I don't know, but I assume he is the son of a second marriage and isn't Ilse's son inwhich case he probably knows very little). And finish by saying you appreciate the situation and don't want to open old wounds or upset his father in any way.


Completely agree, also maybe it's worth mentioning that you find it strange that neither Mrs. Rosemeyer nor anyone else wanted to talk about her and you are interested to find out why.

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#20 LittleChris

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 21:32

I'm with Rob, Tim and Richard on this one.

#21 madmad64

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 17:22

I'm guessing this story is based on what Alfred Neubauer wrote in his very unreliable memoirs. Neubauer also seems to be the source for the story which has now become widely accepted, that Ilse persuaded Varzi to take morphine for the first time at the Tripoli GP of 1936. However, Dr Aldo Zana (see above) says he can prove that Ilse was not in Tripoli when that race took place. I think we ought to regard anything coming from Neubauer with great suspicion - he was never one to let the facts get in the way of a good story.



scuse me for intrusion
i m writing a graphic novel on varzi
the chapter 0 is finished
i search more infos on varzi ilse love story
please send me a mail of people iterested in it
my address is
mad@netfly.it
thanks



#22 paulhooft

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 18:16


Yes, I like to hear more about your Graphic novel.
Regards
Paul



scuse me for intrusion
i m writing a graphic novel on varzi
the chapter 0 is finished
i search more infos on varzi ilse love story
please send me a mail of people iterested in it
my address is
mad@netfly.it
thanks



#23 sundance76

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Posted 19 December 2010 - 21:18

The real first surname of Ilse, was "Hubitsch" ("Hubach" was wrong). Ilse was born on june 26, 1910. She died on may 4, 1969.

This information is in the new italian book (2010) on Varzi, written by Gianni Cancellieri and Cesare De Agostini, "Varzi - l'ombra oscura di Nuvolari" ("Varzi - The Nuvolari dark shadow").

Edited by sundance76, 19 December 2010 - 21:22.


#24 P.Dron

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 12:50

Whether it is Hubitsch, Hubach or Ubac (French for "where the sun never shines"), a good title for a biography of the lady in question might be Achille's Heel.

#25 gommaire

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 16:36

Gentlemen,

I did a bit of research (without asking the Pietsch family) and I found out that apparently the Pietsch
family asked Alfred Neubauer to "change" the story about Ilse and her affairs! This is what
I received from a friend!

Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image

Cheers

Gom