74 replies to this topic

[Requiem84]

For all of you who never play simracing games, such as rFactor, Live for Speed, netKar Pro and iRacing a small introduction.

His name is Greger Huttu, he is from Finland, and allegedly even doesn't have a drivers license. Nevertheless, he's been the fastest guy behind a computerscreen and a steering wheel for the last 13 years now. Every game he's tried, he won.

This season he competed at iRacing.com and won 15 out of 16 races I believe, against the very best in the simworld.

As an experiment they put him in a real car, to see if his skillset could be transfered to the real world.

The video is up at www.iracing.com

What do you guys think?

Edited by Requiem84, 03 December 2010 - 17:05.

[Sammyosammy]

For all of you who never play simracing games, such as rFactor, Live for Speed, netKar Pro and iRacing a small introduction.

His name is Greger Huttu, he is from Finland, and allegedly even doesn't have a drivers license. Nevertheless, he's been the fastest guy behind a computerscreen and a steering wheel for the last 13 years now. Every game he's tried, he won.

This season he competed at iRacing.com and won 15 out of 16 races I believe, against the very best in the simworld.

As an experiment they put him in a real car, to see if his skillset could be transfered to the real world.

The video is up at www.iracing.com

What do you guys think?

crash happens

[VicR]

He would most likely crap his pants.

[sosidge]

They did something similar for one of the TV shows or one of the papers a few years ago.

They took Tiff Needell and a race-sim champion, and got them to have a run in both a real car and a sim car.

Can't remember the exact results, but the sim racer didn't embarass himself in the real car (although he was a good margin slower than Needell). Needell was quite a bit slower on the sim (but he isn't a gamer).

Ultimately the two skills are very different. Racing a real car gives sensory feedback that no game will ever match, and requires physical commitment that no game will ever need.

[tifosi]

Kind of related, I remember when they launched Aerosmith for Rockband or whatever th eheck its called.

They had Joe Perry on, and he admitted he couldn't play the thing at all. Got some of the lowest scores.

[Buttoneer]

He would most likely crap his pants.

He actually did very well.

[Kaiser]

He would most likely crap his pants.

Or throw up

[Lurb]

They put him in a Star Mazda (think F3 + 60 HP + 50 Kg) on Road Atlanta with 0 real racing experience, no karts, no club racing, nothing, just the sim, and he was within 3 seconds of competitive times in a dozen laps.
Then he puked in his helmet because he's a pale overweight nerd, but a few gym sessions would fix that.

People think "computer games" and think "Mario Kart" and "Need for Silliness IV: Chav Racing", but things like GPL, rFactor, GTR, LFS or iRacing help with learning tracks, proper cornering, reactions, concentration, racecraft...

[BenettonB192]

Did you guys even watch the video? He was 3 seconds of the pace of a real race driver in his 4th lap. That's pretty impressive.

[apoka]

Nice video and quite impressive driving considering how bad he actually felt on the day and that he actually almost never drove a physical car. Give him some training and he'll be quite good.

[Requiem84]

Motorsports being so incredible expensive to get into, don't you guys think that there is so much hidden talent on this planet?

Simulations like this one could be a nice gateway to spot upcoming young talent. Not all of those who are fast in a simulation will be fast in a real car, but some definitely will. I'm postive that if you let Huttu do the fitness program and all, he would be a front runner in something like the Mazda series.

He's a bit too old to 'invest' in now. But there are some young kids who are pretty fast. There is a 14 year old in iRacing who is quite close to Huttu for instance.

If I were Mclaren, RB or Ferrari, I'd keep an eye on guys like that...

[rolf123]

This does not surprise me at all.

Sim racing is getting closer and closer to the real thing and has been close for a while anyway.

In terms of managing a race, it is just as good a sim.

In terms of pure racecraft, the sim doesn't give you realistic tactile feedback from the tyres yet but this is getting better. Visually, you get the same cues as a real driver. Sound is not really significant in racing anyway and isn't hard to simulate either. Sure, real life gives more "adrenalin" but the best drivers don't rely on "adrenalin". In fact, getting pumped up like that instead of being relaxed is bad for your racing and the best drivers like Schumi have a very low heart rate. So if he can get over the nerves then it would be much like sim racing too.

I think he would definitely improve with more racing as he then has a reference between reality and sim which he has never had before.


By the way, this idea that having a driving license should make any difference is a common myth. Driving on the streets, you should not be testing tyre adhesion at its limits. Even if you break the law and do so, you cannot do it on a regular basis. If you're a street race then OK but most drivers are not!

Case in point, I don't have a driving license. I did a handful of lessons and never did the test when I was 17. I've spent thousands of hours on sims, especially the Geoff Crammond GP series, which most people would say is not even a sim. However, to me it teaches how to manage a race, how to time your breaking, set up the car. The only thing it doesn't have compared to other sims is a feel for traction. I've also played other sims sporadically too.

I went on a kart day with my job against 30 other guys including some who think they are good. I got the best aggregate heat times and qualified on pole position for the main race where I finished in second place.


So in my view, sims are very useful. A driving license is overrated. Ask Graham Hill.

[eoin]

Kind of related, I remember when they launched Aerosmith for Rockband or whatever th eheck its called.

They had Joe Perry on, and he admitted he couldn't play the thing at all. Got some of the lowest scores.

On the opposite side I know people that never played a game in their life but who happened to be quite musical go straight to hard/expert on drums.

Very impressive showing from a guy that was clearly feeling the effects of all those G's. It would be interesting to see him go head to head with Hamilton on the McLaren sim!

[Dunder]

I have raced against Greger (not very often) in iRacing and before that in rFactor. In virtual racing he is close to being unbeatable.

I am not surprised that he performed well in the Star Mazda (he will have driven many thousands of laps of that track in that car) and would expect him to post competitive times once he got over that natural fear of damaging the machinery.

Edited by Dunder, 03 December 2010 - 19:21.

[SennaHolic]

Motorsports being so incredible expensive to get into, don't you guys think that there is so much hidden talent on this planet?

Simulations like this one could be a nice gateway to spot upcoming young talent. Not all of those who are fast in a simulation will be fast in a real car, but some definitely will. I'm postive that if you let Huttu do the fitness program and all, he would be a front runner in something like the Mazda series.

He's a bit too old to 'invest' in now. But there are some young kids who are pretty fast. There is a 14 year old in iRacing who is quite close to Huttu for instance.

If I were Mclaren, RB or Ferrari, I'd keep an eye on guys like that...

Do you remember The Last Starfighter?

[SRi130Brett]

As someone who regularly used to take part in track driving, and a regular gamer I think the two are worlds apart.

I for one have never quite been able to find the right combination of words to describe how I feel when Sim racing on the incar view. The tracks there, the corners come the same and so on. But its like you are floating along and not in contact with anything. For example, you dont feel the car start to spin in a game, you notice it from tyre noise or the bonnet not pointing where you thought it would be.

If I used a steering wheel it may improve, I have one but dont use it. The sensations still aren't there and personally when I drive I use the feeback form the road, the sensations I get to read the limit and judge it. I went to the lenghts of taking power steering of my road car because its FWD and you feel the track better without. I hardly do trackdays anymore but havent put it back on!

This guys done really really well. 3 seconds isnt much if you consider the claim he doesnt have a licence. To have the balls to come through some of those bends like that, when the extra sensations he will be getting are so new to him is really impressive. Many would have paniced or bottled it I am sure.

Edited by SRi130Brett, 03 December 2010 - 20:01.

[Dunder]

As someone who regularly used to take part in track driving, and a regular gamer I think the two are worlds apart.

I for one have never quite been able to find the right combination of words to describe how I feel when Sim racing on the incar view. The tracks there, the corners come the same and so on. But its like you are floating along and not in contact with anything. For example, you dont feel the car start to spin in a game, you notice it from tyre noise or the bonnet not pointing where you thought it would be.

If I used a steering wheel it may improve, I have one but dont use it. The sensations still aren't there and personally when I drive I use the feeback form the road, the sensations I get to read the limit and judge it. I went to the lenghts of taking power steering of my road car because its FWD and you feel the track better without. I hardly do trackdays anymore but havent put it back on!

This guys done really really well. 3 seconds isnt much if you consider the claim he doesnt have a licence. To have the balls to come through some of those bends like that, when the extra sensations he will be getting are so new to him is really impressive. Many would have paniced or bottled it I am sure.

There is more than a slight difference in the type of equipment that the top simracers use compared to yourself, however.

Pedal equipment with load cells feel very similar to a real car and are highly configurable. Force feedback effects cannot replace what you feel in a real car, but a slight vibration in the wheel when tyres are on the point of locking up and changes in resistance level when you are about to break traction are a huge help.

I have driven many track days and gone round the Nurburgring and would agree that the real word experience is different to the virtual one but that the virtual experience Huttu had in iRacing in the Star Mazda at Road America would, nonetheless, be more valuable than say driving a real tin top at Brands Hatch.

Edited by Dunder, 03 December 2010 - 20:12.

[saunarobot]

I think it was too much too fast. Was it that the guy hasn't even been on an aeroplane before? It would be a lot better to give him more time with the car, perhaps in a car without downforce. I think flying to a different continent, to a different time zone is not the most comfortable way to get your first shot in a race car. More laps in non-downforce cars, in a comfortable environment... I think Huttu could surprise everyone.

Would be nice to see him go head to head with good preparation in an F1 sim against F1 drivers.

[rhukkas]

I think it was too much too fast. Was it that the guy hasn't even been on an aeroplane before? It would be a lot better to give him more time with the car, perhaps in a car without downforce. I think flying to a different continent, to a different time zone is not the most comfortable way to get your first shot in a race car. More laps in non-downforce cars, in a comfortable environment... I think Huttu could surprise everyone.

Would be nice to see him go head to head with good preparation in an F1 sim against F1 drivers.

He did the three day Skip Barber course before he tried the Mazda according to that video.

[Requiem84]

As someone who regularly used to take part in track driving, and a regular gamer I think the two are worlds apart.

I for one have never quite been able to find the right combination of words to describe how I feel when Sim racing on the incar view. The tracks there, the corners come the same and so on. But its like you are floating along and not in contact with anything. For example, you dont feel the car start to spin in a game, you notice it from tyre noise or the bonnet not pointing where you thought it would be.

If I used a steering wheel it may improve, I have one but dont use it. The sensations still aren't there and personally when I drive I use the feeback form the road, the sensations I get to read the limit and judge it. I went to the lenghts of taking power steering of my road car because its FWD and you feel the track better without. I hardly do trackdays anymore but havent put it back on!

This guys done really really well. 3 seconds isnt much if you consider the claim he doesnt have a licence. To have the balls to come through some of those bends like that, when the extra sensations he will be getting are so new to him is really impressive. Many would have paniced or bottled it I am sure.

What sims have you tried?

If you haven't tried a simulation with a steering wheel, you have never experienced how far we've come. Since GP2 we have come a long way, with realistic Force feedback steering wheels, brake pedals with load cells and software that is getting closer and closer to the real experience.

To give you an example, the iRacing simulation uses laserscanning to create their tracks. That means that any bump, undulation or crack in the asphalt is realisctily modelled in the virtual track. Tire models are also getting closer and closer to the real deal. I can recommend you to try either netKar Pro, Live for Speed or iRacing with a good steering wheel (G25 i.e.).

I'm very curious what you will think about simulations after that.

Mclarens simulator is now so close to the real car that they can basically test new parts on their IN the simulation. That is quite astonishing.

On the subject of Huttu versus Hamilton in an F1 simulator, I would put my 100,- euro's on Huttu. He is unbeatable in the virtual world.

[SRi130Brett]

What sims have you tried?

If you haven't tried a simulation with a steering wheel, you have never experienced how far we've come. Since GP2 we have come a long way, with realistic Force feedback steering wheels, brake pedals with load cells and software that is getting closer and closer to the real experience.

To give you an example, the iRacing simulation uses laserscanning to create their tracks. That means that any bump, undulation or crack in the asphalt is realisctily modelled in the virtual track. Tire models are also getting closer and closer to the real deal. I can recommend you to try either netKar Pro, Live for Speed or iRacing with a good steering wheel (G25 i.e.).

I'm very curious what you will think about simulations after that.

Mclarens simulator is now so close to the real car that they can basically test new parts on their IN the simulation. That is quite astonishing.

On the subject of Huttu versus Hamilton in an F1 simulator, I would put my 100,- euro's on Huttu. He is unbeatable in the virtual world.

I know that sims these days can reproduce reality extremely well and I wasnt thinking of anything more than what most of us having living rooms. If we all had a million quid to spend on a simulator I am sure I wouldnt be saying anything I have.

For me, Nothing that is arranged in a living room can replace the feeling you get through your bum on the track and the feedback that gives.

Im not trying to be a snob or owt, its simply the way I feel about games and driving

[rolf123]

Change the goalposts to suit your argument

You underestimated how good simulations are.

[Requiem84]

I know that sims these days can reproduce reality extremely well and I wasnt thinking of anything more than what most of us having living rooms. If we all had a million quid to spend on a simulator I am sure I wouldnt be saying anything I have.

For me, Nothing that is arranged in a living room can replace the feeling you get through your bum on the track and the feedback that gives.

Im not trying to be a snob or owt, its simply the way I feel about games and driving

Fair enough, it amuses me that you can judge this without even trying the simulation with suitable equipment.

Nevertheless, I think experiments like this should happen more often and more thorough. Imagine what is possible if you have a whole summer program for someone like Huttu.

[SRi130Brett]

Fair enough, it amuses me that you can judge this without even trying the simulation with suitable equipment.

Nevertheless, I think experiments like this should happen more often and more thorough. Imagine what is possible if you have a whole summer program for someone like Huttu.

Have you ever driven a car at speed on a track, I hope so else I dont see quite how you can be so sure!?

I never set out to make a right or wrong argument, its just the way I feel about it. Ive tried some pretty impressive simulators at shows and not been very quick. Regardless I only offered a view on how I find the contrast, its something thats going to depend on each individual so I dont see what the point in trying to say Im wrong is anyway.

As for the kid, as I said in my first post he did really well. If he could avoid throwing up maybe with some proper coaching and time in a car he could become pretty quick. Its nice to see really.

[VicR]

He actually did very well.

My comment was meant with having him in a F1 car, IndyCar, GP2 car etc. I see now that was not a criteria in the OP. My bad.

Two reasons this discussion is ludicrous.

Cornering speed/G-forces and the small thing that so many people forget about - risking your life. The only thing you risk in a simulator is a power outage.

[pingu666]

in terms of feel, nearly all cars in iracing have extemely good feedback of the track, you feel alot of detail, other sims just feel so "flat" afterwards

[Rubens Hakkamacher]

Kind of related, I remember when they launched Aerosmith for Rockband or whatever th eheck its called.

They had Joe Perry on, and he admitted he couldn't play the thing at all. Got some of the lowest scores.

That's a bad analogy, Rockband/Guitar Hero has NOTHING to do with playing an instrument, it is NOT a simulation of anything except Wack-A-Mole.

[aditya-now]

His name is Greger Huttu, he is from Finland, and allegedly even doesn't have a drivers license. Nevertheless, he's been the fastest guy behind a computerscreen and a steering wheel for the last 13 years now. Every game he's tried, he won.


What do you guys think?

Tremendous stuff! Thanks for the link, Road Atlanta is a pretty nice track, very organical.

I wonder how the transition from racing only with his mind to racing in his body must have felt, him getting sick was testimony to that. The 1m28,8s lap in the end of the video shows the brute force that he is exposed to in the physical world. Pretty amazing. Thanks again!

[noikeee]

I'm all for siding with the simracers but I'm not sure we can use this as an argument for how good simulations are, or how relevant they are for finding talent. I mean... this is Greger ****ing Huttu. He has absolutely annihilated pretty much everyone in the world for the past decade in every game. He's a wild exception already within the simracing world - why is anyone surprised he has the potential to be competitive in a real car?

[Requiem84]

You know what really puzzles me: why in all those years this guy never felt the urge to go really racing? Ice racing, rallying, snow mobiles, speed skating, elking, anything, and he never bothered? He would have made a perfect test engineer/driver. If his racing instincts haven't been awakened latest after the sweet taste of Barber's, he simply doesn't have that racing urge. In which case he disproves that it's all in the head (which I don't believe anyway).

But he might be the first big champion of a new future sport, virtual racing, and why not imagine how millions would watch finals from a top virtual series on google TV? At a buck a race, every pc becomes the best seat at the track = right in the drivers' seat. Imagine the in-car shots you could have, save all the data, all the views, replay the race with Huttu as ghost driver. F1 is very elitist, virtual F1 might have a future of its own with the digital mob. You will know that the virtual racing world has reached critical ooze mass when Mr Ecclestone announces the creation of VFOM.

The iRacing World Championship races were actually broadcasted live on a stream, with two commentators. Being a simulation fan it was nice and interesting to watch, especially because the commentators know all the drivers and give you a little bit of background on their personalities. There were some awesome duels fought out on track as well, but thanks to Greger it was a bit boring, he won 95% of the races...

And to be honest, it is somehow not anywhere near the involvement you feel watching a real race. Is it becauswe we know it's not realistic? Is it the lack of fear you project? I don't know.

I'm not sure it will be a big hit as a new sport.

[ViMaMo]

Did you guys even watch the video? He was 3 seconds of the pace of a real race driver in his 4th lap. That's pretty impressive.

Thats seriously impressive.

[Jeag]

Motorsports being so incredible expensive to get into, don't you guys think that there is so much hidden talent on this planet?

Most certainly. LH being a prime example of someone who didn't have alot of money when he was young is arguably the best natural talent F1 has seen in decades, beating all the rich boys who had it easy off the backs of some family member.

[Ross Stonefeld]

That's an interesting, and oversimplified, take on things.

[TooTroublesome]

Adrian Sutil gets asked if simulation games can start a persons career in racing and he pretty much says it is a good way to learn the basics but it is no substitute for the real thing.

[johnmhinds]

Not to take anything away from this guy, 3 seconds is really impressive for someone who had hardly ever driven a real car before.

But we aren't talking about super twitchy racers here, the cars he used are probably set up to be easy to drive for track day fans in the first place.
Any competent driver could have come close to doing the same kind of times in those cars.

Don't forget the video is jus a big advert for iRacing, they are naturally going to triple B us a bit

[Dunder]

Not to take anything away from this guy, 3 seconds is really impressive for someone who had hardly ever driven a real car before.

But we aren't talking about super twitchy racers here, the cars he used are probably set up to be easy to drive for track day fans in the first place.
Any competent driver could have come close to doing the same kind of times in those cars.

Don't forget the video is jus a big advert for iRacing, they are naturally going to triple B us a bit

I think you are right on the iRacing advertisement thing but wrong on the others.
The Star Mazda is a difficult car to get to grips with and to get within 3 seconds of a competitive lap time within 4 laps of running is, frankly, astonishing.

I have driven a Formula Renault and various track day racers at Brands Hatch and would consider myself a competent driver, I was nowhere near within 3 seconds of my instructors' times even in my own car.

[johnmhinds]

I'm pretty sure the times they were comparing his times too weren't the instructors times.

If you check trackpedia:
http://www.trackpedi...ki/Road_Atlanta

The typical laptime for a Star Mazda is 1:18.4 and from the video I gather he was doing 1:24-1:26 times, which doesn't sounds a steller as saying he was 3 seconds off some unknown persons time.

I'm not trying to take anything away from the guy, he did amazing given how green he was, just pointing out it was an obvious advert for iRacing so they weren't going to say he was bad no matter what his time was.

Edited by johnmhinds, 04 December 2010 - 17:01.

[Ross Stonefeld]

But equally you aren't a highly rated sim racer, haven't done literally thousands of laps in an effective simulator of that car and that track, and immediately preceded it with a racing school course held at that track?

I'd have been much more interested to see his times in the Skip Barber car. 3 seconds in a high downforce car like a Star Mazda is the point where you start seperating the amateurs from the pros, so there isn't a lot to go on.

I felt awful for him. He looked really uncomfortable. I think it was a combination of the traveling, the weather, the occasion, really everything. But he looked a little overwhelmed by it all.

Hell the first time I drove a car as quick as a Star Mazda I got sick to my stomach too. But having raced a few times previously I excused myself to the toilet, made myself throw up, and continued testing.

[techspeed]

You know what really puzzles me: why in all those years this guy never felt the urge to go really racing?

Who says he didn't?
I'm sure there are a lot of people in the world who, if they had the money and time, could have made it to the top levels of motorsport.
I know I'm certainly one of those who wanted to race but grew up with no father or family to fund and help my racing.

Having to fund my own racing I went for the next best thing 20 years ago, r/c cars. After all, if it's good enough for Hamilton and De la Rosa it's good enough for me. Still need to be a professional to race at this level though:


Today if you can't afford the real thing you use race sims. I'm sure if someone could find good sim racers young enough to then develop in real life they could develop into good drivers with the right support.

[Dunder]

I'm pretty sure the times they were comparing his times too weren't the instructors times.

If you check trackpedia:
http://www.trackpedi...ki/Road_Atlanta

The typical laptime for a Star Mazda is 1:18.4 and from the video I gather he was doing 1:24-1:26 times, which doesn't sounds a steller as saying he was 3 seconds off some unknown persons time.

I'm not trying to take anything away from the guy, he did amazing given how green he was, just pointing out it was an obvious advert for iRacing so they weren't going to say he was bad no matter what his time was.

The lap record (set on 'supersoft tyres') is a 1:18.326 so 1:18.4 is hardly typical. The fastest race lap ever set was a 1:20.1.
I agree with Ross, it is a pity he was not able to do enough running to be able to set a trully representative lap time.

[Rubens Hakkamacher]

1:20's seem typical from what I'm reading.

The guy had a lot going against him:

Physical conditioning (none);
No real car experience;
Culture shock - Finland to the U.S.?
Language;
Having cameras in his face while being shy;
Climate - I know people from Texas that complain about the heat and humidity in Georgia.

To be on it through T12 at Road Atlanta is a feat in itself. To having just literally jumped in a car and to have done this is impressive, and considering the above things being in favor against him even being able to keep up makes it doubly impressive.


30 is not too old. He could get on a training program and by next year be fit enough to do saloon car racing; one can see his head bobbling around in the cockpit, and his bleeding hands probably didn't help things, either. Very interesting, the next thing would be TO sponsor him in some series for a year or two and see what happens.

/ "why didn't he just go racing?" - even those junks they race in over there doesn't mean he lives in an income bracket that would allow for that. He probably wouldn't find it interesting given the limitations of setup and non-existent consistency in track conditions.

[rolf123]

But he might be the first big champion of a new future sport, virtual racing, and why not imagine how millions would watch finals from a top virtual series on google TV? At a buck a race, every pc becomes the best seat at the track = right in the drivers' seat. Imagine the in-car shots you could have, save all the data, all the views, replay the race with Huttu as ghost driver. F1 is very elitist, virtual F1 might have a future of its own with the digital mob. You will know that the virtual racing world has reached critical ooze mass when Mr Ecclestone announces the creation of VFOM.

Broadcast gaming is big in S.Korea. Except driving games are not big there though.

If it was marketed enough, it could be huge. I would love to see them invite guest F1 drivers. I know iracing has guests but I mean for a much bigger event, sponsored by Bernie etc. That would be amazing.

[prty]

Broadcast gaming is big in S.Korea. Except driving games are not big there though.

If it was marketed enough, it could be huge. I would love to see them invite guest F1 drivers. I know iracing has guests but I mean for a much bigger event, sponsored by Bernie etc. That would be amazing.

Why would anyone watch that when you can see the real thing?

[rolf123]

Why would anyone watch that when you can see the real thing?

Maybe the real thing is boring as hell, despite deluded people thinking "F1 is the best it's ever been"

[prty]

Maybe the real thing is boring as hell, despite deluded people thinking "F1 is the best it's ever been"

Still, I don't think people would want to watch a videogame instead. Which is even more boring.

Edited by prty, 04 December 2010 - 23:10.

[ivanalesi]

There was actually another topic on this test following the article on Top Gear.
Back then, I didn't know this little bugger was 3 freaking seconds off the pace on his 4th lap! I saw in the background the car of Conor Daly in the Irish colors, he's the champ, quite a good driver judging by his pace on GP3 testing last month, so there were fast drivers on this test.
Just looking at the onboard lap, his neck muscles were so weak that he was like an old Caddy under braking, his fitness was a big limiting factor and that's why he wasn't able to improve on his time.
He's truly amazing talent, go to some FR2.0 team and ask what was the lap time some karting champ did after 15 laps and if he had any spins! Then you'll know how truly special is this performance. There's no question about it, a fit Huttu will be truly an amazing top racer!

[VicR]

There's no question about it, a fit Huttu will be truly an amazing top racer!

That's the core of the problem. He will never be 'that' fit because you have to start at a young age in carts. You have to build yourself up both mentally and physically. You have to prepare your brain (for the risk) and your body (for the beating). Much like Golf, Tennis, Athletics, Gymnastics etc. There are NO shortcuts. Reaching A level is not the same as reaching THE level. I know.

[ivanalesi]

That's the core of the problem. He will never be 'that' fit because you have to start at a young age in carts. You have to build yourself up both mentally and physically. You have to prepare your brain (for the risk) and your body (for the beating). Much like Golf, Tennis, Athletics, Gymnastics etc. There are NO shortcuts. Reaching A level is not the same as reaching THE level. I know.

Fitness isn't the problem, drivers like Petrov, Doornbos or Sato started very late or never drove karts & fitness isn't their weak point. Brain sharpness & sensitivity is another matter, but he can surely train his body to endure such forces. Mind you, some drivers at this level aren't exactly the fitness freaks ;) He'll surely have bigger problems in changing conditions, especially when he's got to use new set of tires - that's the weak point for racers w/o karting background.

[ivanalesi]

Jealous? <g> I say he should go for it, and getting fit in the process wouldn't hurt him either, would certainly also improve his simming. He can NOT lose. I think he never tried racing because he was too shy but nobody sees him in his simchair so he shines. Would it help if he went to see a mental coach (for autosuggestive training?) to initially consider the car as an HD 3D sim in which he can be his comfortable self once his visor is down? Quite interesting thread.

He hasn't tried because he leaves 200 miles from the Pole! That's quite a good reason & for a guy coming from a small fishing village, he's surely not rich enough to start racing far from his home.
He can surely try some bang-bang racing, but it's a whole other spirit and kind of racing, it's no wonder he prefers to race against Dale Jr or Justin Wilson.

[F1Champion]

Read about the tester for GT5. Now that is a surprise!

http://www.autocar.c...-turismo-5.aspx