49 replies to this topic

[Birelman]

So, I've been bored, and this afternoon I thought of a scenario that I don't think I've seen here played with before, but if it has, oh well....

Anyway, I was thinking, When Schumacher had his accident in 1999, I'm sure retirement was an option he probably thought about with his wife, and had that happened, what a different world F1 would be...

First, it's most probable that Hakkinen would have ended up a triple WDC with a high probability of winning on 2000, of course, he'd still probably wouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as Michael, even if Michael had only 2 at the time.

then in 2001, either Coulthard, or Barrichello would have ended up Champions, how about that, eh? of course, depending on who wouldhave been Rubinho's teammate, but, I'll go with Rubens. 2002 very probably Rubens, in 03 Raikkonen would have probably been an young Champion, and 04 Rubens again.

So, Rubens could have been a multiple champion LOL 2, or 3, maybe, and Coulthard maybe 1. Who knows, right?

Anyway, I thought it was a fun scenario to play around with, don't think I've seen this one before, but if it has, then, hit meh!

Fire away people!!!!!

[Risil]

Let's assume there's some truth in the conspiracy theory that after all that effort and salary from 1996-1999, Ferrari just didn't want Irvine to win their first driver's championship since Scheckter. Had Schumacher retired obviously that wouldn't have been an issue, and Ferrari would've given Irvine the support necessary in the run-in to win the title. Hakkinen is utterly destroyed at the humiliation of losing to Eddie Irvine and flees to a log cabin in the woods, only to resurface ten years later as a practising Neo-Pagan called Sigmund.

Irvine is so chuffed he promptly 'does a Raikkonen', and after a couple of disappointing seasons retires to his massive yacht.

Mclaren promote Nick Heidfeld from their junior team to race alongside Coulthard, but neither possesses the 'cutting edge' to deliver a championship. Ferrari, on the other hand, display the lack of imagination that saw them recruit Schumacher, Raikkonen and Alonso, and hire Jacques Villeneuve as the last active champion. Villeneuve walks it, obviously.

Mclaren are not wholly impressed with their drivers' performances, and do not renew Coulthard's contract. Coulthard makes the decision to work with Eddie Jordan for two years, which he instantly regrets. Jenson Button is hired as Mclaren's second driver, and at a team function exhibits his Machiavellian cunning by collaring a young lad named Lewis Hamilton and breaking both his thumbs.

Montoya arrives in 2001, and battles Jacques Villeneuve in such a way that predictable and boring comments are made about CART being superior to F1. This is no more true in bizarro-world than it was in real life. Bernie Ecclestone responds to this threat in typical fashion; deriding Championship Auto Racing Teams and everything they stand for, and then hiring Jim Nabors to sing before every race.

Villeneuve is crowned champion after a series of championship twists and turns and several disqualifications that seem to all involve the team that isn't Ferrari. He is now part of the Establishment, and buys a pair of proper shoes to mark this fact. At the end of the season Montoya is so frustrated that he makes a pact with the devil, who was on his way at the time to Fernando Alonso's motorhome. Mark Webber is signed up as Renault's third driver for 2002. Alonso will eventually return to F1 having won everything in the States, and spends most of 2008 being told by Franz Tost that he's not as quick as his teammate Sebastian Vettel.

Edited by Risil, 08 December 2010 - 02:37.

[Birelman]

Let's assume there's some truth in the conspiracy theory that after all that effort and salary from 1996-1999, Ferrari just didn't want Irvine to win their first driver's championship since Scheckter. Had Schumacher retired obviously that wouldn't have been an issue, and Ferrari would've given Irvine the support necessary in the run-in to win the title. Hakkinen is utterly destroyed at the humiliation of losing to Eddie Irvine and flees to a log cabin in the woods, only to resurface ten years later as a practising Neo-Pagan called Sigmund.

Irvine is so chuffed he promptly 'does a Raikkonen', and after a couple of disappointing seasons retires to his massive yacht.

Mclaren promote Nick Heidfeld from their junior team to race alongside Coulthard, but neither possesses the 'cutting edge' to deliver a championship. Ferrari, on the other hand, display the lack of imagination that saw them recruit Schumacher, Raikkonen and Alonso, and hire Jacques Villeneuve as the last active champion. Villeneuve walks it, obviously.

Mclaren are not wholly impressed with their drivers' performances, and do not renew Coulthard's contract. Coulthard makes the decision to work with Eddie Jordan for two years, which he instantly regrets. Jenson Button is hired as Mclaren's second driver, and at a team function exhibits his Machiavellian cunning by collaring a young lad named Lewis Hamilton and breaking both his thumbs.

Montoya arrives in 2001, and battles Jacques Villeneuve in such a way that predictable and boring comments are made about CART being superior to F1. This is no more true in bizarro-world than it was in real life. Bernie Ecclestone responds to this threat in typical fashion; deriding Championship Auto Racing Teams and everything they stand for, and then hiring Jim Nabors to sing before every race.

Villeneuve is crowned champion after a series of championship twists and turns and several disqualifications that seem to all involve the team that isn't Ferrari. He is now part of the Establishment, and buys a pair of proper shoes to mark this fact. At the end of the season Montoya is so frustrated that he makes a pact with the devil, who was on his way at the time to Fernando Alonso's motorhome. Mark Webber is signed up as Renault's third driver for 2002. Alonso will eventually return to F1 having won everything in the States, and spends most of 2008 being told by Franz Tost that he's not as quick as his teammate Sebastian Vettel.

LOL!

LOL my favorite was hireing Jim Nabors!! LOL <Sings> Back home again, in Ind....... Well, surprise, surprise, surprise!!!

[Nobody]

Hakkinen ... he'd still probably wouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as Michael

In "being a unsportsmanlike cheating awful hat wearing" stakes?

[Birelman]

In "being a unsportsmanlike cheating awful hat wearing" stakes?

But of course!!

Sadly though, I think had he retired due to that accident he would have been somewhat immortalized by having his career cut short. I think it would probably be worst than his 7 titles, imagine the "what ifs" lol!

Edited by Birelman, 08 December 2010 - 04:06.

[Nobody]

But of course!!

Sadly though, I think had he retired due to that accident he would have been somewhat immortalized by having his career cut short. I think it would probably be worst than his 7 titles, imagine the "what ifs" lol!

hang on - you're talking about a "what if what if" !

i need a lie down....

[Birelman]

hang on - you're talking about a "what if what if" !

i need a lie down....

lol yea, slipping into a parallel dimension here!

[Disgrace]

This thread is great already. Should be renamed the "hypothetical alternative realities if such-and-such happened in X season."

[BRK]

Which is also why the remarks about his competition during these years being average are so ridiculous: I somehow doubt people would've had the same opinion if we'd had a 'double world champ' Coulthard or a three-time WDC Mika Hakkinen,etc. And we've had more of the same since 2006,a different winner every year for four seasons...


All covered in the Schumacher thread already,but thanks for illustrating (unwittingly) just why he was head and shoulders above the rest again.

[Nustang70]

I think Ferrari would have hired Villeneuve, thrilling the tifosi. Hakkinen would have taken the crown in 2000, Villeneuve in '01 and '02, Raikkonen in '03, and Barrichello would pip Villeneuve for the title in '04, causing Villeneuve to quit.

[tifosiMac]

And we've had more of the same since 2006,a different winner every year for four seasons...

It just goes to show how comptitive F1 has become and how the standard has lifted since 2006. We've just had the most competitive season since the late 80's.

[flyer121]

lol yea, slipping into a parallel dimension here!

A dream within a dream

How about if DiCaprio tried to "Incept" the idea into Schumi's brain that winning by playing fair to others and his teammate will garner him more greatness over the years.

[Ross Stonefeld]

With super-rookies like Montoya and Heidfeld floating around in 1999, the driver market could have gone all over the place. Ralf could have gone to Ferrari with Zanardi getting a second season at Williams. Maybe Button would have made his debut in red, the possibilities are near endless.

[ryan86]

Wasn't there rumours floating around about Pedro Diniz for the second Ferrari seat for 2000?

[Yorkie]

He only broke his leg, he was never going to retire

[aditya-now]

So, I've been bored, and this afternoon I thought of a scenario that I don't think I've seen here played with before, but if it has, oh well....

Anyway, I was thinking, When Schumacher had his accident in 1999, I'm sure retirement was an option he probably thought about with his wife, and had that happened, what a different world F1 would be...

First, it's most probable that Hakkinen would have ended up a triple WDC with a high probability of winning on 2000, of course, he'd still probably wouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as Michael, even if Michael had only 2 at the time.

then in 2001, either Coulthard, or Barrichello would have ended up Champions, how about that, eh? of course, depending on who wouldhave been Rubinho's teammate, but, I'll go with Rubens. 2002 very probably Rubens, in 03 Raikkonen would have probably been an young Champion, and 04 Rubens again.

So, Rubens could have been a multiple champion LOL 2, or 3, maybe, and Coulthard maybe 1. Who knows, right?

Anyway, I thought it was a fun scenario to play around with, don't think I've seen this one before, but if it has, then, hit meh!

Fire away people!!!!!

Schumacher was to obsessed about racing, as his comeback this time has showed. Yet your thought is highly original: MS 2 WDC, MH 3 WDC, DC 1 WDC, RB 2 WDC and KR 2 WDC.
This scenario would have also played out it Schumacher´s 1999 Silverstone accident would have been any worse. Hardly anyone would speak of Schumacher as one of the greatest of all times then.

Possibly some other careers were stopped in such a way by accidents as well, in my mind at least Didier Pironi´s, who could have gone on to be multiple WDC.

Let us also not forget that MS was not fully appreciative of Eddie Irvine winning the 1999 WDC - Eddie has been on record on this in one of the BBC Red Button shows lately. Also an Eddie Irvine title would have changed something in the public perception of MS, "even Irvine could become WDC in the Ferrari!"...

[Yorkie]

Schumacher was to obsessed about racing, as his comeback this time has showed. Yet your thought is highly original: MS 2 WDC, MH 3 WDC, DC 1 WDC, RB 2 WDC and KR 2 WDC.
This scenario would have also played out it Schumacher´s 1999 Silverstone accident would have been any worse. Hardly anyone would speak of Schumacher as one of the greatest of all times then.

Possibly some other careers were stopped in such a way by accidents as well, in my mind at least Didier Pironi´s, who could have gone on to be multiple WDC.

Let us also not forget that MS was not fully appreciative of Eddie Irvine winning the 1999 WDC - Eddie has been on record on this in one of the BBC Red Button shows lately. Also an Eddie Irvine title would have changed something in the public perception of MS, "even Irvine could become WDC in the Ferrari!"...

It did take him a long time to comeback when you look at someone like Webber for instance

[ivand911]

I like my scenario better , after his accident in 1999, MS still win this year title and starting his winning streak one year earlier. And now he would be 8 time WDC. Or easily would be if he didn't have accident in 1999.

Edited by ivand911, 08 December 2010 - 11:53.

[The Jim Clark Five]

Schumacher would have still won 5 titles on the trot (2000 - 2004) with Ferrari but it would have been Ralph rather than Michael

A simple twist of fate would have given Ralph is chance to be a true great. History would have forgotten Michael except for his stupid hats, naff shirts and silly shoes.

People would be saying stuff like this:

"Hey does anyone remember Ralph The Great's rubbish F1 brother, Michael?"
"Erm...no. The name doesn't ring a bell"
"I think he was the bloke who wore stupid hats"
"Oh him, I remember now. I think he worse silly shoes as well"

[faaaz]

Imagine if Rubens was a good driver..who knows what coulve happned

[flyer121]

Imagine if Vettel was born in Italy and was on the verge of starting his F1 career in 95.

Ferrari wouldn't even have signed Schumi up.

[BRK]

It just goes to show how comptitive F1 has become and how the standard has lifted since 2006. We've just had the most competitive season since the late 80's.

The moment the bar is lowered all you're left with is a set of talented drivers that're as good as one another. Of course the seasons were going to be 'competitive'..

[Birelman]

The moment the bar is lowered all you're left with is a set of talented drivers that're as good as one another. Of course the seasons were going to be 'competitive'..

That's not the whole truth anyway, it's somewhere in the middle

[aditya-now]

The moment the bar is lowered all you're left with is a set of talented drivers that're as good as one another. Of course the seasons were going to be 'competitive'..

That´s what we have witnessed in 2010, when Schumacher came back into that set of talented drivers. The bar was some much lowered that Schumacher was really "competitive"...

[arknor]

That´s what we have witnessed in 2010, when Schumacher came back into that set of talented drivers. The bar was some much lowered that Schumacher was really "competitive"...

exactly because at 41 almost 42 years old your at your peak...

even most geniuses from history did there best work in there early twenties so stop with the crazy conspiracy theories

[aditya-now]

exactly because at 41 almost 42 years old your at your peak...

even most geniuses from history did there best work in there early twenties so stop with the crazy conspiracy theories

Well, Mansell or Fangio were not so far off their peak, so I wonder what happened to Michael?

[Sausage]

What about 4 million years or so ago some apelike proto-human slips while taking a shower under a waterfall and dies? Entire history F'd! (well possibly lol)

Or the dinosaurs never went extinct? Whe'd have Dino-F1! With Schumachermimus! Allonsaurus! and Bernie Ecclestone Rex!

[FigJam]

Given the debut season BAR endured in 1999, were this to play out, I suspect Villeneuve would have been given the dream move to Ferrari.

[Wheels23]

If that happened, Irvine would have still been in Ferrari but likely Rubens. Ralf in Williams still and maybe even winning a championship and then Hakkinen would have gone longer imo.

[Birelman]

If that happened, Irvine would have still been in Ferrari but likely Rubens. Ralf in Williams still and maybe even winning a championship and then Hakkinen would have gone longer imo.

We'll never know, but I doubt it, Mika was pretty worn out, and seemed not to even want to race anymore throughout the entire 2001 season, I don't think it had anything to do with Michael, rather, Mika tired of the game.

[SparkPlug]

We'll never know, but I doubt it, Mika was pretty worn out, and seemed not to even want to race anymore throughout the entire 2001 season, I don't think it had anything to do with Michael, rather, Mika tired of the game.

One thing is for sure. Mika would have definitely gotten a lot more respect today if Schumacher retired. He would have been a 3 time WDC at the very least, and in my opinion he is one of the greats of this sport, not acknowledged as much because he raced in "Schumacher's era".

A lot of kids these days (more specifically, guys who have recently started following F1 and are fans of Lewis/Kimi/Alonso/Vettel), lay too much emphasis on world championships won without going into detail about other aspects of the racer. This is especially true of racing drivers between 94-2006, an era which is routinely dismissed as "lowly talented" ONLY because these drivers statistics do not match up with the best.
Similarly, giants of the sport like Gilles Villeneuve, and Niki Lauda seem to get very little respect on web forums these days, because they dont have the best statistics. The same goes for Mika Hakkinen IMO.

So, to answer the question, IF Schumacher retired in 1999, Hakkinen would have been a 3 or 4 time champion, and he would have walked into the 10 best drivers of all time list.
2001 - 2006 ? Well I think Barrichello, Kimi, Ralf and Montoya would have all won championships in that period and that era would then be named "most competitive era of all time", with there being no less than 8 champions between 94-2006.

EDIT : As far as Schumacher being a "forgotten figure" if he retired prematurely, nothing could be further from the truth. That is probably (again) coming from one of the new generation of fans who started following F1 AFTER MS started his dominant run of championships. In 1999 he was already regarded a great by many, infact Murray Walker in his documentary in 1999 or 2000, had already rated Schumacher as one of the top 5 drivers of all time. Before he went on the annihilate the record books. His drives in 96,97 and 98 showed the whole world how utterly talented he really was.

Edited by SparkPlug, 12 December 2010 - 06:50.

[Birelman]

One thing is for sure. Mika would have definitely gotten a lot more respect today if Schumacher retired. He would have been a 3 time WDC at the very least, and in my opinion he is one of the greats of this sport, not acknowledged as much because he raced in "Schumacher's era".

A lot of kids these days (more specifically, guys who have recently started following F1 and are fans of Lewis/Kimi/Alonso/Vettel), lay too much emphasis on world championships won without going into detail about other aspects of the racer. This is especially true of racing drivers between 94-2006, an era which is routinely dismissed as "lowly talented" ONLY because these drivers statistics do not match up with the best.
Similarly, giants of the sport like Gilles Villeneuve, and Niki Lauda seem to get very little respect on web forums these days, because they dont have the best statistics. The same goes for Mika Hakkinen IMO.

So, to answer the question, IF Schumacher retired in 1999, Hakkinen would have been a 3 or 4 time champion, and he would have walked into the 10 best drivers of all time list.
2001 - 2006 ? Well I think Barrichello, Kimi, Ralf and Montoya would have all won championships in that period and that era would then be named "most competitive era of all time", with there being no less than 8 champions between 94-2006.

EDIT : As far as Schumacher being a "forgotten figure" if he retired prematurely, nothing could be further from the truth. That is probably (again) coming from one of the new generation of fans who started following F1 AFTER MS started his dominant run of championships. In 1999 he was already regarded a great by many, infact Murray Walker in his documentary in 1999 or 2000, had already rated Schumacher as one of the top 5 drivers of all time. Before he went on the annihilate the record books. His drives in 96,97 and 98 showed the whole world how utterly talented he really was.

Well, yea, whomever says Mika wasn't an incredibly talented driver don't know what he's saying. He had speed to spare, and was a great sportsman! He was always fast, and a smart driver, his speed was evident even in the Lotus days (heck, even in the F3 days, he beat Schumacher in F3 that year in Schu's backyard), only blind Michael Schumacher fans claim Mika was only good due to McLaren superiority, he also had to suck it up during the lean years at McLaren 94 through 97, he should have won more in 97, but, luck wasn't by his side.

[FigJam]

One thing is for sure. Mika would have definitely gotten a lot more respect today if Schumacher retired. He would have been a 3 time WDC at the very least, and in my opinion he is one of the greats of this sport, not acknowledged as much because he raced in "Schumacher's era".

So, to answer the question, IF Schumacher retired in 1999, Hakkinen would have been a 3 or 4 time champion, and he would have walked into the 10 best drivers of all time list.
2001 - 2006 ? Well I think Barrichello, Kimi, Ralf and Montoya would have all won championships in that period and that era would then be named "most competitive era of all time", with there being no less than 8 champions between 94-2006.

For sure Hakkinen would have likely had a higher stature. However I'm of the opinion that with MS out of the equation, he would have had to deal with Jacques Villeneuve instead....who, rather than thrashing BAR's around during his best years, would have been on a high after his 1997 title and likely been in a scarlet Ferrari from 2000 onwards.

Think whatever you want of Jacques post 2004 but, during those years, he was dynamite. Hakkinen would have had his hands filled still, no question. Villeneuves form during the 2000 season, placed in a Ferrari, would have taken the fight to Hakkinen and McLaren no question.

[LuckyStrike1]

But it was only a broken leg.

If you wanna speculate about retiring due to an accident, speculate about Häkkinen. That was a real heroes comeback he did.

Schumacher broke his leg and just took a looooong vacation

[PoliFanAthic]

There's no guarantee that Ferrari would've been the force they were without Schumacher, if we're at speculating.

[SparkPlug]

There's no guarantee that Ferrari would've been the force they were without Schumacher, if we're at speculating.

But the base was made by 1999 by Schumi and Co, wasnt it ? All the ingredients of a great team were in place. However you do have a point. When Schumacher retired in 06 all these ingredients fell apart bit by bit. Perhaps they would have split up and gone to different teams.

For sure, without Schumacher in 2000, Hakkinen would have taken his third straight. He was in the best form of his life that year IMO, and both of them were driving at a level above the rest of the grid that year, IMHO. Without MS around, having someone like Villeneuve + Barrichello or Villenueve + Irvine perhaps wouldnt have yielded the same level of success fpr Ferrari.

[SparkPlug]

But it was only a broken leg.

If you wanna speculate about retiring due to an accident, speculate about Häkkinen. That was a real heroes comeback he did.

Schumacher broke his leg and just took a looooong vacation

Indeed it was a true heroes comeback, bettered only perhaps by Niki Lauda.

PS : Didnt Schumacher suffer a multiple fracture in his leg ? From what I read at the time it was pretty serious and could have had consequences. Luckily both Hakkinen and Schumacher didnt seem to have lost too much of their earlier pace, really set up the 2000 season well for an epic showdown

[SeanValen]

The forums wouldn't be as entertaining as were used too. And I think alot of fans were created by Senna and MS's era of drama and great performances toppled with a huge competitive personality for winning. I'm sure seasons would look competitive when you lower the bar from very special to very good but now wow etc Alot of Senna's poles were wow, his drives in the rain were wow, Schumacher's rain/strategy/all weather wins and behind the scenes team integration work ethic it all created a personality of really driven men going for the win, they just wanted it more. And I think we were very lucky to have those 2 very driven drivers racing in f1 from 1984-2006, I think this sport has seen some special talents and personalities, and you only need to see how much is written about Schuey on forums when he'ss racing and even when he's retired. The sport wouldn't have the fanbase it has without Senna and Schuey I think, it would still be popular, but it'll be lacking some real superstars. Kinda like boxing heavy weight now, without Ali and maybe Mike Tyson-people wanna see certain people in the game, you only needed to see the hype on Schumacher's return prior to the start of 2010, the level of interest just goes up a gear, and if he has a better 2011 season, kudos for the sport.

The level of interest in Schumacher's return in Sepang in 1999 from his accident and being a second clear from the rest on his return, missed driving that much commented Ron Dennis, and you saw his talent again on show, it's a story, and drivers like MS and Senna help give the sport it's stories and moments, and without stories and moments, you just have stats and racing, and we see alot of decent racing in all forms of sport, but for the centre stage of motorsport-you want it almost like a film, you want your near misses, the anger, the determination, the hard work, the against the odd drives, MS provided that entertainment, Spa 98-driving in the rain masterclass, the crash with DC and hte anger after-pure motorpsort moment and just one example. Senna's press conferences are something no FIA rules can create, it's just the person speaking. Schumacher's interesting because he's done everything, yet it's his life and he doesn't shy away from enjoying what he's doing, he has money, it's interesting to have a legend of the sport come back, it doesn't happen often. If Senna was alive, retired, came back and he wasn't on it straight away, it would still be cool, seeing him try. It's like a drug racing and being on the edge, certain drives need it, MS is one of them, Senna as well, it just is fasinating to watch unfold.

Edited by SeanValen, 12 December 2010 - 12:53.

[Les]

What a fun thread. For one if there was no prospect of a Schumacher comeback then I doubt we would have been entertained by the greatest botched pit-stop in history:



Also imagine a scenario where Ralf Schumacher ended up with as many championships as his brother!

[Atreiu]

All in good fun:
1999 - Hakkinen WDC,
2000 - Hakkinen WDC, Ferrari pairs Barrichello and Ralf Schumacher
2001 - Hakkinen WDC after second half of the season surge over Coulthard, Williams pair Montoya and Button, JPM wins Interlagos, Hockenheim, Monza and makes huge impression.
2002 - Coulthard leaves, Kimi joins McLaren, WDC goes to RB after hard battle. Ferrari win only some 11 races, McLaren and Williams share the rest, Hakkinen retires, Kimi wins Spa.
2003 - Kimi WDC.
2004 - Ferrari crack the piggy bank open, snatch Alonso & Montoya, FA WDC. Barrichello at Williams and Kimi pick up the left overs. Button wins first race at Imola.
2005 - Kimi WDC
2006 - Alonso WDC, signs contract extension until 2010, JPM quits after being unable to cope with FA, Renault leave F1 altogether after finding it impossible to replace Alonso, Briatore finds a place at Ferrari
2007 - Hamilton joins Kimi, Massa joins Alonso. LH naturally grows into McL, but without the Alonso factor and so becomes rookie WDC, FA close but no cigar.
2008 - Hamilton WDC, complete transition from Kimi's to Lewis' era in McLaren, Alonso 2nd.
2009 - Brawn and Red Bull, Button WDC, LH finally achieves domination of Kimi, who scores 6th Spa win
2010 - Button joins McLaren, an exact repeat of the normal 2010, but with no Schumacher comeback and Heidfeild driving for Mercedes the entire year.

Edited by Atreiu, 12 December 2010 - 19:29.

[Risil]

Something to bear in mind with the post-Schumacher 'Ferrari Vacuum'.

Biaggi: "Todt offered me the Sauber"

[aditya-now]

.... The sport wouldn't have the fanbase it has without Senna and Schuey I think, it would still be popular, but it'll be lacking some real superstars. Kinda like boxing heavy weight now, without Ali and maybe Mike Tyson-people wanna see certain people in the game, you only needed to see the hype on Schumacher's return prior to the start of 2010, the level of interest just goes up a gear, and if he has a better 2011 season, kudos for the sport.

It´s interesting, as you do not make that comparison for the first time, and it is spot on: Ali/Senna and Tyson/Schumacher share indeed many characteristics.

[halifaxf1fan]

It´s interesting, as you do not make that comparison for the first time, and it is spot on: Ali/Senna and Tyson/Schumacher share indeed many characteristics.

Yes. Schumacher trying to smash Villeneuves car off the track in Jerez is akin to Tyson biting off his opponents ear. The comparison of MS to MT is very appropriate.

[Risil]

Yes. Schumacher trying to smash Villeneuves car off the track in Jerez is akin to Tyson biting off his opponents ear. The comparison of MS to MT is very appropriate.

The two incidents happened only a few months apart too.

Edited by Risil, 13 December 2010 - 01:02.

[Cstonerfan]

You lot might have forgotten the Mika Hakinnen near fatal accident in Adelaide which came very close in ending his up to then uneventfull career in the Peugeot powered McSlow.

He did SFA in the Lotus before.

MS is the one that won in a Benneton and in a Ferrari 7 world championships.
When the drivers swap between Benneton and Ferrari occured Berger and Alesi could not drive the Benneton to anywhere of the laptimes of MS.
Michael drove the Berger/Alesi 412T1 and was on the winning pace of his Benneton times in this car that did nothing with the 2 stuges in it that year!
He did win 7 WC's by being completely focussed and making sure every thing that could be done to give him an advantage he did/was done.
The mark of a great champion!

Off the track away from racing/buisness Michael is a very pleasant person indeed, on the job he is fully focussed and no time for distractions, as it should be for a winner.
A. Senna was of the same ilk but with a big latin streak!

Edited by Cstonerfan, 13 December 2010 - 02:06.

[Risil]

You lot might have forgotten the Mika Hakinnen near fatal accident in Adelaide which came very close in ending his up to then uneventfull career in the Peugeot powered McSlow.
He did SFA in the Lotus before.
MS is the one that won in a Benneton and in a Ferrari 7 world championships.
When the drivers swap between Benneton and Ferrari occured Berger and Alesi could not drive the Benneton to anywhere of the laptimes of MS.
Michael drove the Berger/Alesi 412T1 and was on the winning pace of his Benneton times in this car that did nothing with the 2 stuges in it that year!
He did win 7 WC's by being completely focussed and making sure every thing that could be done to give him an advantage he did/was done.
The mark of a great champion!
Off the track away from racing/buisness Michael is a very pleasant person indeed, on the job he is fully focussed and no time for distractions, as it should be for a winner.
A. Senna was of the same ilk but with a big latin streak!

You misunderstand. We're talking about if Michael Schumacher had retired in 1999. Not 'What would Cstonerfan be saying today provided Michael Schumacher had gone on to win seven world championships, like in fact he did in real life?'

[Like the illustrations though ]

Edited by Risil, 13 December 2010 - 02:36.

[schuey100]

What if, after the accident, Ross Brawn realised just how short life could be, decided to lose all the weight, get fit and tried his hand at racing. He then found that not only could he bring a team over a second a lap with his brains but he was the most complete racer the world has ever known. He then both drives and runs the team on his own and becomes the first man ever to also complete a pit stop on his own whilst going on to win a race.

He goes on the become the first ever 10X WDC winning ever race and WDC consecutively between 2000 and 2010. No team orders needed.

This is fun, I mean I might as well just make up stuff, post it on Autosport and call it a 'current F1 related topic'.

[Cstonerfan]

You misunderstand. We're talking about if Michael Schumacher had retired in 1999. Not 'What would Cstonerfan being saying today provided Michael Schumacher had gone on to win seven world championships, like in fact he did in real life?'

What is there to misunderstand other than that it seems you are not liking my post putting forward a pro MS point of view.
You do not seem to get the possibility that MH could have well passed away in Adelaide Hospital after his monumental crash and MS could have won 10 WC's.
Please keep it nice and non personal or contact me by PM to vent your displeasure if so desired.

[Risil]

What is there to misunderstand other than that it seems you are not liking my post putting forward a pro MS point of view.
You do not seem to get the possibility that MH could have well passed away in Adelaide Hospital after his monumental crash and MS could have won 10 WC's.
Please keep it nice and non personal or contact me by PM to vent your displeasure if so desired.

I understand the possibility, but Mika Hakkinen's accident in 1995 is not what we're discussing. I'd suggest that how close Mika came to death that day makes it difficult for anyone who remembers it not to have imagined an alternative history of recent Formula One with Mika sadly not present. Believe Murray Walker used to allude to this quite frequently in his commentaries, back during Hakkinen's glory days.

For better or worse, if the period of F1 from Prost's retirement and Senna's death through to the emergence of Raikkonen, Alonso and Hamilton is named after a driver, it will be Schumacher's. This thread is just discussing what lies behind MS's intimidating results record. I would draw the comparison of 'What would've happened if Mick Doohan had packed it in in 1992?' (leaving the door open for Crivillé, Beattie, Okada, Cadalora and perhaps a superannuated Kevin Schwantz to take shots at the 500cc title until V. Rossi arrived), but as a 'Cstonerfan' that would probably piss you off too.

[Cstonerfan]

Cryville, ohh dear me do not start me on that one, hehe

Schumachers real record is just that, a fact in History.
Raikonnen and for that matter Montoya never has had the "win at all efford" mentallity unlike Fernando Alonso, yet another true champion and also much maligned by a great many.
F1 without MS after 1999 would be as uninteresting as when MS was pushed out of F1 by Ferrari managment and Bernie/Max cronies!
Polarisation of admiration and intense dislike mixed with hyped up controversy = Media interest = broad interest = $$.
And just for light entertainment, I would not have had a nice collection of model Ferrari's that wiped the circuit floor with the opposition for those enjoyable years.

Edited by Cstonerfan, 13 December 2010 - 03:39.