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'Handicapped' and 'disabled' racers (merged)


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#1 Huw Jenjin

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Posted 30 May 2000 - 07:10

Browsing through another thread, I started thinking about racers who did particularly well in racing despite having a huge physical handicap.
What are the regs these days about that, and who can you think of that fell into that category?

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#2 Barry Lake

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Posted 30 May 2000 - 07:20

Archie Scott-Brown (deformed arm) and Alan Stacey (artificial leg) are two that leap to mind.
Ironically both died in crashes at Spa-Francorchamps.

#3 Darren Galpin

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Posted 30 May 2000 - 07:20

Off the top of my head, Archie Scott-Brown, sportscar driver in the 60s. There was also Ken Ridley, who rallied an Opel Manta for many years on the Lombard RAC Rally in the 1980s - he had a modified gearstick so that he could still drive despite his deformed arms. And Jamie Watt, who was paralysed from the waist down last year in F3000, but raced in the Danish Touring Car Series (I may be wrong with the series) with a modified car.


#4 Joe Fan

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Posted 31 May 2000 - 07:30

I think I remember reading that IndyCar and occasional Grand Prix driver Tommy Milton was blind in one eye and Mel Kenyon had a badly burnt hand from an accident that made it virtually useless. He had a special glove made up that allowed him to steer with that hand with a peg on the steering wheel.

#5 gunner

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Posted 31 May 2000 - 09:09

Allen Heath was a great sprint car driver. He lost part of his left arm just before the Indy 500 in which he was a favorite. He drove Sprinters for years with a hook and a bar bolted to the steering wheel. The guy was teriffic.

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#6 Don Capps

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Posted 31 May 2000 - 09:45

Archie Scott-Brown was killed at Spa in May 1958. It was a sad loss for racing since Scott-Brown was really very, very good.

It is now generally forgotten, but Johnny Rutherford suffered some very severe injuries and burns to his hands as the result of a crash in the 60's -- the exact races escapes me at the moment -- and as a result had to have his hands literally shaped to grip a steering wheel...



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Don Capps

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#7 gunner

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Posted 31 May 2000 - 09:46

Mel Kenyon was still driveing 2 years ago and possibly in the Mel Kenyon Classic last year.

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#8 KzKiwi

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Posted 01 June 2000 - 17:07

Scott-Brown was a very fine driver, especially so considering his disabilities. I believe they were with him from birth.

I read somewhere that Tommy Milton overcame his blind eye disability by memorizing eye charts. Speaking of which, Jody Scheckter apparently failed a physical for compulsory military training due to the fact that he was colour blind. I think this was discovered after he had retired from racing. Imagine the consequences of mistaking various flag colours for others though!

Other drivers with 'minor' disabilities were
Jean Behra - Artificial ear due to racing accident, Roy Salvadori, who was deaf in one ear, JP Beltoise, who had limited movement in one elbow and the under rated Mr Lewis Evans, who had terrible stomach ulcer problems and had Spondylitus (???) as a child.

Huge, I am not sure of the current rules and regs for such disabilities, but I believe there is a second generation driver racing in the states now who is completely deaf (He may be a Scheckter??)



#9 Huw Jenjin

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Posted 01 June 2000 - 20:18

The driver with one eye story reminded me of a great story about Bruce McLaren, later in his career, when he knew his sight was failing in one eye.
At an eye test before the race, he picked up a book with his right hand and put it in front of his right eye and read the chart as requested. He then swapped the book to his left hand, and proceeded to cover his right eye again and read the chart off once again!
Incidently, Bruce spent a part of his boyhood in a school for the disabled, wearing metal calipers to allow him to walk,and fighting off a similar disease to Polio.

#10 Huw Jenjin

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Posted 01 June 2000 - 20:19

The driver with one eye story reminded me of a great story about Bruce McLaren, later in his career, when he knew his sight was failing in one eye.
At an eye test before the race, he picked up a book with his right hand and put it in front of his right eye and read the chart as requested. He then swapped the book to his left hand, and proceeded to cover his right eye again and read the chart off once again!
Incidently, Bruce spent a part of his boyhood in a school for the disabled, wearing metal calipers to allow him to walk,and fighting off a similar disease to Polio.

#11 Don Capps

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Posted 01 June 2000 - 22:23

Add Jim Hurtubise to the list. After his terrible accident at Milwaukee in August 1964, he had a seriously damaged right - the right one if I recall - and had the docs do what was done with Rutherford later.

Add Jean-Pierre Beltoise to the list. He had a severely damaged leg after his 1964 accident at Le Mans which ended up significantly shorter than the other and caused his cars to have to be modified for him.



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#12 Falcadore

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Posted 02 June 2000 - 20:39

Alessandro Nannini lost his arm in a helicopter crash, had it sewn back on and returned to race touring cars, very well I might add in the Alfa 155 DTM cars. Arm mobility would prevent a return to F1 though.

US racer Tommy Kendall has a fused left ankle. Not much of a problem usually, but in Australia a few years back he found himself on the other side of the car in a DJR Falcon at Bathurst and found he couldn't operate the clutch. So he just banged them through. Just as well DLR build 'em tough, and Holinger builds gearboxes so well.

I came across a Rally driver last year who was a paraplegic. He was steering a Mitsubishi Lancer Evo III rally car using a F1 style gearchange system and hand throttle, that impressed me. He was getting top ten finishes in the national series too. For the life of me I can't remember his name right now.

While not a huge handicap, back in about 1992 Mick Doohan had a dreadful accident on his NSR500, then surgery on his legs was... is botched too strong a word? It was thought he'd be lucky to walk again. He certainly can't run, and has very noticeable limp.He was back on the bike as sonne as he could and then proceeded to win 5 consecutve world championship and left a huge hole in motorcycle racing once he retired.

#13 gunner

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Posted 02 June 2000 - 22:13

Falcadore.

There was talk that Mick Doohan would have his leg removed after he retired? Did it ever happen?

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#14 Eagle104

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Posted 06 June 2000 - 00:56

Originally posted by Don Capps
Add Jim Hurtubise to the list. After his terrible accident at Milwaukee in August 1964, he had a seriously damaged right - the right one if I recall - and had the docs do what was done with Rutherford later.



It was both of Herk's hands that were shaped around a steering wheel. I don't recall JR needing this done, but he did severely break both arms in a sprintcar crash in April'66 at Eldora, Ohio, during the feature event on "Johnny Rutherford Day" honoring him for his USAC Sprint Car title of '65. His right arm was the most badly damaged. I think he was out for the whole year.

#15 Ray Bell

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Posted 06 June 2000 - 01:47

Didn't stop him driving at Bathurst... when was that, 1978?

#16 Eagle104

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Posted 06 June 2000 - 04:06

Ray, I honestly wouldn't have known about JR running Bathurst, but around two weeks ago I bought his just-released autobiography, and sure enough there's a chapter devoted to his racing DownUnder. He ran Bathurst in '77 while there for the midget season. He won the Australian-American Midget Championship in '78.

Oh, the title of that chapter?..."Crash The Yank!"

Ray!..say it ain't so!;)


#17 Joe Fan

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Posted 07 June 2000 - 01:16

Eagle, is the JR autobiography pretty good? I seen someone talk about it over on Speednet and I really think JR was underrated by historians. I don't think he made the top 25 CART/Indy Car drivers in CART magazine's poll.

BTW, did you get my e-mail the other day?

#18 Eagle104

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Posted 07 June 2000 - 02:20

Originally posted by Joe Fan
Eagle, is the JR autobiography pretty good? I seen someone talk about it over on Speednet and I really think JR was underrated by historians. I don't think he made the top 25 CART/Indy Car drivers in CART magazine's poll.

BTW, did you get my e-mail the other day?



Haven't read much of it yet, Joe Fan, but from what I've heard(and read) it should be a good one.

Once JR began winning on a consistant basis, he really was a major force for several years, so I don't understand the lack of recognition either.

Doh! :o Yeah, I got you email. You'll hear from me soon. Sorry. btw: the wheels are in motion! :)



#19 Ray Bell

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Posted 07 June 2000 - 08:13

The impression he made on Bathurst was - well, depending on your point of veiw - minimal. Bit trickier than Granville Speedway!

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#20 Eagle104

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Posted 07 June 2000 - 18:04

Yeah, about all he mentioned was how 'foreign' it was to drive from the right-side, and about how he over-cooked it while qualifying.

#21 Ray Bell

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Posted 07 June 2000 - 21:25

Also tangled with a little car in the race, but the tow truck retrieved the Torana he was driving and it was repaired and sent out again... didn't last long and Janet Guthrie didn't sit in it on race day.

#22 Huw Jenjin

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Posted 08 June 2000 - 12:51

Janet Guthrie drove at Bathurst? You live and learn. She obviously didn't race from the sound of it, but what were her qualifying times like?

#23 Ray Bell

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Posted 08 June 2000 - 20:56

Not real crash hot, if I recall correctly... but you need a lap time hoarder like Barry to check that out. They drove a Ron Hodgson Torana A9X... 5-litre 4spd, about 400hp tin top.

#24 Falcadore

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Posted 11 June 2000 - 10:24

Quite a number of international name drivers have driven on the race known generally as the Bathurst 1000.

60's rally star Rauno Aaltonen actually won the race in 1966 as part of the factory BMC Mini Cooper S team. He was reunited with his team mate of that day, Bob Holden, 25 years later in a Toyota Corolla.

BTCC hot shot Jeff Allam had several go's at the big race as part of factory Rover, Jaguar, Holden, Ford & BMW teams, his best finish a 2nd in 1990 with Paul Radisich in a Dick Johnson Ford Sierra.

John Andretti ventured down here for a very disappointing run with Garry Rogers in a Commodore in 1988. IIRC Andretti arrived on crutches and Rogers tried to replace him.

Lotus Formula 1 driver Julian Bailey raced a Honda Accord in 1997 with Warren Luff to finish 10th.

US racer Dick Barbour raced Chevrolet Camaro's twice in 1979 and 1980 as part of the Ron Dickson Pepsi team. As I recall he drove in the teams second car. He finished neither race.

Frenchwoman Marie-Claude Beaumont was terrified by the Mountain in 1975 in a Alfa Romeo GTV2000. She finished an incredible 6th with John Leffler and won her class. And it didn't stop her coming back in 76 in an Alfetta GT with Christien Gibson that didn't finish.

Sports car legend Derek Bell raced here 5 times. In 1977 he and Garry Leggatt won class and finished 8th in a Alfa GTV2000. 1978 and a DNF with Dieter Quester in a Holden Torana V8. 1979 and 10th and 2nd in class with Phil McDonell in another GTV Alfa. 1980 and a DNF with the same car & co-driver. Finally in 1981 he and Allan Moffat took a factory Mazda RX7 to third outright.

German Touring Car star Frank Biela raced here three times and was always competitive. He finished 2nd twice, 1989 in a Ford Sierra turbo with Klaus Niedwiedz, and again in a factory Audi in 1997 with Brad Jones. He also picked up a 10th in 1990 in another Eggenberger/Moffat Sierra with Niedzwiedz and Pierre Dieudonne.

New Zealands best ever rallyist, Possum Bourne, was 4th in class and 28th outright in the 1992 Bathurst 12 Hour in a Subaru Liberty turbo.

The Brabham family has an impressive array of starts considering the international nature of their careers largely kept them away from Australian in October each year. David & Geoff won the race for BMW in 1997 in a 320i. David was also 4th in 1993 in a Holden Commodore. Geoff was 6th in 1993 in a Ford Falcon. Jack was 6th in 1978 in a Holden Torana. Geoff was 8th in 1974 in a Mazda RX3. Geoff was 8th again in 1998 in a Falcon and 10th last year also in a Falcon. Geoff was also 12th in 1975 in a Ford Escort, David 14th last year in a Commodore, Gary 16th in 1987 in a BMW M3. Geoff & Jack shared an 18th in a Falcon in 1978 and Gary was 25th in 1992 in a Ford Sierra turbo.

Wild eyed italian, Gianfranco Brancatelli raced here four times for a best finish of 7th in a BMW M3 in 1987. He had three later trips in fragile but very fast turbo Ford Sierras.

The great Venezualan motorcycle champion turned Formula One then touring car racer Johnny Cecotto was always very fast at the mountain. A 2nd in 1985 in a BMW 635 with Roberto Ravaglia, then a 7th in 1987 in an BMW M3 with Brancatelli and a 4th in 1992 with Tony Longhurst in a M3.

The slightly mad Scot, John Cleland loves the mountain. He has a 5th in a Vauxhall Vectra in 1998, a 6th in a Holden Commodore in 1995 and a 7th in a Commodore in 1996, as well as starts in 1993, 1997 and 1999. His 1993 race ended prematurely when the CV joint in Peter Brock's Commodore broke allowing the driveshaft to chainsaw it's way into the cabin. Cleland had a few well chosen words for that incident.

Rodney Combs race here in 1981 in a Holden Commodore, but it was a small team and went nowhere special.

BTCC commentator Charlie Cox is, Australian and has raced at Bathurst in Commodores three times, for one finish, a 17th.

Rudi Dahlhauser race a VW Golf here twice in 1977 and 1978 but failed to finish.

Belgian Michel Delcourt did 4 races with a 7th in 1986 and an 8th in 1987 in Commodores.

Pierre Dieudonne did the race 4 times, won but was disqualified in 1987 and had a 10th in 1990. All four trips were in Sierra turbos.

Star of the very odd real life soap opera, Sylvania Waters, Laurie Donaher did the race three times in Commodore with a best of 12th in 1993. His son Mick, also featured in the TV show shared that 12th and continues today as one of Aust's 2nd rank drivers in tin tops.

Steve Dymand replaced Dick Barbour in Ron Dickson's Camaro squad in 1981 but made no greater impression.

Juan Fangio II raced here three times finish 16th in 1987 with Gary Barbham in a BMW M3 before heading the factory Toyota MR2 production car team at the Bathurst 12 Hour in 1993 & 1994 winning class both times and finishing an incredible 6th and 4th outright respectively.

Brit John Fitzpatrick won the race with Bob Morris in a Torana in 1976 and finished second with Morris in a Falcon in 1981. He failed to finish five other starts.

1987 World Motorcycle Champion Wayne Gardner has finished 3rd twice and 4th in 8 starts all in Commodores. This year he joins the factory Ford team for another go.

Dieter Glemser DNF in a Falcon in 1974 with Allan Moffat in a very public high profile failure for Moffat. Money had been thrown at the car but it was finished late the overseas driver took a little too long to settle in and a clever or more perhaps ruthless protest by Holden team manager Harry Firth put them too far behind the eight ball.

1990 BTCC champ Robb Gravett finished 8th in 1989 in one of four starts. Mostly in Sierra but one in an Accord during the two litre era.

French F1 steerer and Nigel Mansell's best friend (not) Olivier Grouillard had a race in 1987 in a BMW M3 to finish 11th.

Janet Guthrie DNF'ed as mentioned above with Johnnie Rutherford in a Torana in 1977.

German Armin Hahne won the race in 1985 in a Jaguar XJS with John Goss and won class with Jeff Allam in 1984 in a Rover Vitesse V8.

The late Gregg Hansford, one of the great unrewarded talents of motorcycle grand prix racing racked up a 3rd in a factory Mazda RX7 with Allan Moffat in 1984, an 8th and first in class in a factory Alfa Romeo GTV6 with Colin Bond in 1985, a 4th in 1986 in a Ford Mustang with Dick Johnson, a 9th in 1991 in a Ford Sierra with Glenn Seton, a 5th in the 1992 12 Hour in a factory Mazda RX7 with John Bowe, a 2nd in the 1993 12 hour in a factory RX7 with Charlie O'Brien, before winnign the big one in 1993 with Larry Perkins in a Commodore. He then won the 1994 12 Hour in the RX7 with Niel Crompton and finished third in the 94 Bathurst 1000 in his last visit before his sad death at Phillip Island in early 1995.

Two of the original Japanese F1 drivers, Kazuyoshi Hoshino and Masahiro Hasemi were paired in factory Nissan Bluebird turbos twice in 81 & 82 and finished 8th in 82. They showed the potential of the cars with Hasemi being frighteningly quick n qualifying in 1982.

Paul 'Hawkeye' Hawkins raced twice in the late 60's first in an Alfa Romeo GTV1600, led the race and damn near won it in 1967. The following year his Holden Monaro didn't trouble the scoreboard.

Super Touring Car racer Altfrid Heger has an 11th and a 10th to his name in 1987 & 1994 both times in factory prepared three series BMWs.

Sports Car racer David Hobbs had two races in factory backed BMW's in 1981 (with Alla Grice) & 1982 (with Jim Richards) for a 7th and a 5th.

Irish rally legend Paddy Hopkirk was part of BMC's factory Mini Cooper assualt from 1965 to 1967 collecting a 6th and an 8th.

1967 World Champion Denny Hulme had 9 starts, with a 4th in a factory BMW in 1991 his best finish. He was also 9th in a factory Mercedes 190E in 1986 (and 1st in class). He had a heart attack and died during the course of the dreadful 1992 race.

Le Mans legend Jacky Ickx won the race in 1977 with Allan Moffat in a Ford Falcon V8. Ick had thrashed the car during his stint so Moffat had to nurse the car home, ordering team mate Colin Bond to stay behind him. Ickx returned in 1978 to defend the title but the ccar died.

1980 world champion Alan Jones has 19 endurance event starts at Bathurst, winning the 1993 12 Hour in a factory Mazda RX7 Turbo. In the big race, the 1000, he finished 2nd in 1995 in a Falcon, 3rd in a Sierra in 1988, 4th in a Commodore in 1984 and 5th in a Sierra in 1989. He also picked up a 2nd in the 12 Hour in a BMW M5.

Japanese sports car racer Yoshimi Katayama raced here 3 times in rotary Mazdas. In the factory RX7 he shared with Allan Moffat he finished 2nd in 1983 and 6th in 1982.

Tommy Kendall was 8th in 1996 with Steven Johnson in a Falcon.

Sports car world champion and Le Mans winner Klaus Ludwig was disqualified from 2nd in 1987 in a Sierra Turbo.

Timo Makinen once did a lap of Bathurst that included a roll over at Forrest Elbow in which Makinen had to get out of the Cooper S and roll it back onto it's wheels and only lost 35 seconds over his lap average at that point of the race.

French touring car star Alain Menu fronted the 1997 Renault attack but pushed his (and Jason Plato's) Laguna too hard while chasing the BMW's and Audi's and broke the car. He returned in a Commodore in 1998 but the car died before he could step into it.

New Zealand hillclimb legend Rod Millen raced an RX7 in 1983 and finished 11th.

Stirling Moss shared a Holden Torana V8 with Jack Brabham in 1976 but when Jack stalled the car on the grid got rammed by a Triumph Dolomite. The car did return to the race but the damage was too severe to persist for long.

Even Satoru Nakajima has done Bathurst. He crashed his Ford Capri spectacularly in 1977.

In 6 starts (5 in turbo Sierras) Klaus Niedzwiedz finished 2nd twice, 1987 & 1990 but was DSQ'ed from 1987 and was 10th twice in 1990 nad 1996 in his non Sierra start in a Falcon.

Swede Anders Olofsson has 5 consecutive top 6 finishes between 1989 & 1995. His best a third in the Nissan GT-R with Neil Crompton in 1992.

British Touring Car a Sports Car great Win Percy loved the Mountain like few others. He won the race in 1990 in a big upset win for the factory Holden team. Had a second in 1991 (Commodore) and third in 1985 (XJS Jag), and 4 5th places in 1992, 1994, 1995 and 1997 in Commodores.

Henri Pescarolo had three consecutive DNF's in Falcon V8s from 1977 to 1979.

Emanuelle Pirro was 12th in 1987 in an BMW M3.

Sam Posey drove a Chevvy Camaro in 1980 but didn't finish.

Dieter Quester had three DNF's, twice in Holden Toranas in 1978 & 1979, and in a factory BMW 635 in 1986.

The Austrian Roland Ratzenberger DNF'ed in 1987 in a BMW M3.

Italian touring car great Roberto Ravaglia finished 2nd in a BMW 635 in 1985, DNF'ed in a BMW 635 in 1986 and was 12th in 1987 in a M3.

Manuel Reuter was 27th in 1992 in Peter Brock's Commodore in a mserable race.

Andy Rouse had three starts in Sierras, the best a 4th with Peter Brock in 1990.

Swede Rickard Rydell was 4th in 1997 before returning in 1998 and set the mountain alight during his duel with Matt Neal, and their respective co-drivers Jim Richards and son Steven Richards. For over 6 hours the two cars were never sperated by more than 15 seconds irrespective of pitstops and the Volvo team of Rydell and Jim Richards won. This race has laid claim to being the closest endurance race of all time.

Kunimitsu Takahashi raced here 3 times in small bore Datsuns, winning class in 1966 in a Datsun 1300.

Mark Thatcher (Maggie's little boy) raced in 1979 in a Corolla and never returned.

Basil van Rooyen raced a Torana in 1977 but failed to finish.

Prince Leopold von Bayern raced a factory BMW 635 in 1984 with Denny Hulmes and finished 15th and 2nd in class.

Tom Walkinshaw raced here three times. He drove in John Goss strange Jaguar XJS in 1984 only to be biffed out of the race in a start line shunt after Walkinshaw stalled. He vowed to return and win and he did sort of. Fronting a huge three car factory Jaguar assualt in 1985 one of his cars won and his was third. His Holden assault in 1988 gradually collapsed over the course of the day and his car was stuck on the circuit after a whell came off after not being secured properly after a pitstop.

Derek Warwick proclaimed it the best circuit he's ever driven in 1997 when leading the factory Vauxhall attack. He was 6th with Peter Brock and 5th in 1998 with John Cleland.

Patrick Watts didn't finish in 1997 in the Peugeot 406.

Smokin' Jo Winkelhock was 15th in 1993 in a BMW M3.

and Barry Lake has two starts to his credit in little BMW 3.0si. In 1976 he and Paul Older finished 20th and 6th in class. In 1978 the car didn't finish.

just a fraction of the stories from the Mountain the lies in wait in the mist each year.....

yours
Mark Jones

#25 Ray Bell

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Posted 11 June 2000 - 16:05

So, Mark, which of them were handicapped... or was it the race that was a handicap?
I think you're a little off topic here, old chap, but I will say that your judgement of Ickx was somewhat harsher than mine would have been. The old Moff wouldn't have been hard on the car himself, would he?
Did you mention that South African... what was his name? and Gerry Marshall, both were in the Bill Patto team in 77...
What about Kent Price?

#26 Falcadore

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Posted 12 June 2000 - 05:55

Huw J expressed interest in Janet Guthrie having driven at Bathurst and I was bored at the time (well not really bored but needed a break from what I was working on) and rattled of a few 'celebrity' Bathurst entries. Well more than a few. It may hae been off topic but the topic had already wandered in that direction.

Yeah it is a bit harsh on Jacky as AM was certianly a hard driver both physically and verbally, you remember what Moffat said about Hansford in a Mazda press conference in 1982? It is not my judgement though but the recycled judgement of others, as while I watched the race in question at five years of age I had yet to develop any analytical skills about motor racing. Ickx was however used to fairly tough vehicles though right? The Ferrari's of his era were fairly reliable or did reliability not come along until the boxer twelve of the T series cars? Porsche sports cars built a reputation for relaibility too. When did Ickx join Porsche?

As for handicaps? It could be cruelly considered not having driven the Mountain 4 or 5 times in the past is a very big handicap.... a myth both disproved and proved with equal regularity....

I did mention Basil van Rooyen. There were quite a few more drivers of course, as you mention Marshall & Price, also Steve Soper, Franz Klammer, Thierry Tassin, Daniele Toffoli, Bob Tulius, Giorgio Francia, Jan Nilsson, Akihiko Nakaya (who was inexplicably denied a F1 Superlicence when Jean-Denis Deletraz got one) the great Ozzie tin top exports Frank Gardner and Brian Muir, Gardner of course did quite a bit more than tin tops, F1 drivers like Paul England, Vern Schuppan, Dave Walker & Larry Perkins. Others like Ulf Granberg, Robbie Francevic, Hideshi Oishi etc..

And the long list of those who were coming but never made it, Paul Newman, Jacques Laffite, Alessandro Nannini, Andy Rouse in the 70's, Bruno Giacomelli, Riccardo Patrese, Keke Rosberg, Bernd Schneider, Mike Briggs, Luis-Perez Sala, Paolo Barilla, Gabriele Tarquini, the Lindstrom brothers, Vic Lee.....

the stories never end...

btw I want to get your book back to you - a simply amazing read.

#27 Ray Bell

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Posted 12 June 2000 - 09:28

Okay, but first mention Kent Price....

#28 Barry Lake

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Posted 12 June 2000 - 11:04

Ray
I have just finished writing an interview with Marie-Claude Beaumont (now an F1 photographer) for Motor Racing Australia magazine. She said Bathurst was "like racing and rallying at the same time".
It is interesting to note that quite a few overseas drivers who have come to Bathurst with cars very familiar to them (like the Super Tourer drivers) have done well. Those who have to learn both the car and the circuit usually flop badly.
Even those familiar with the circuit can have trouble in an unfamiliar car. Recent example: Paul Morris, a Bathurst winner in smaller cars, struggling to make the times in an HRT Commodore V8 Supercar last year.
Cameron McConville said he understood Paul's problem, after racing a Super Tourer there, he said, it was very difficult to get confident enough to commit to the fast corners over the mountain in a car that, by comparison, felt like a "bucket of ****" (I think that was the expression - at least something along those lines).
And, as we know, you have to be very committed to those fast corners to do good lap times.
As for Janet Guthrie not actually racing on the track, I don't really remember and I don't have the time to research it right now. I do remember speaking with both Janet and Johnny Rutherford during the meeting and noting they both (particularly Rutherford) were quite frustrated at not being able to come to grips with the place.
I agree, however, with those who say Rutherford has had a raw deal from some members of the press over the years. He seemed to be one of those drivers who got the results, didn't excite "the mob". Perhaps he didn't suck-up to the right people.
Take a look at his record and try to tell me he wasn't any good. I won't believe you.
As I write, I remembered something else Rutherford said during that Bathurst week. I was talking to him about the "old days" of sprint car racing in the US - no wings, no cages, wooden fences on the inside of the tracks etc.
He said it was "Like playing Russian roulette with one out and five in..."
Falcadore
Since you mentioned I started twice at Bathurst in touring cars, I should add I also raced there seven times in open-wheelers. I finished second outright once, too. I always felt it would have been good of my friend Phil West to have stayed home that day, or broken down, so I could now say I had won at Bathurst...
Some friend!

#29 Ray Bell

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Posted 12 June 2000 - 12:11

The RCN report said she didn't drive in the race... I know the writer of that report... he wouldn't lie.
And didn't Paul Morris run a Commodore back in 93 or 94 as well... just forgot how to do it, eh?

#30 Falcadore

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Posted 12 June 2000 - 13:55

Morris was supposed to race the Diet Coke Commodore at Bathurst in 1994 and did with Geoff Brabham at the Sandown 500 but was near destroyed in a testing accident at Lakeside, so a brand spanker BMW 318i fresh from the world cup was flown out, along with Altfrid Heger. That BMW was the Bob Holden run car for many years. The Commodore was rebuilt and sold to John Alcorn for Bob Tindal to run for first David Attard then Greg Crick to drive. Geoff Brabham was told sorry come back next year and we'll have a new car for you. Morris and Heger dominated the 2.0 litre class of course and finished 10th outright. Since his Commodore team mate and constructor sort of team mate finished 3rd and 4th, what might have been for Paul? His V8 Bathurst debut would have to wait another 5 years.

Barry, what kind of open wheelers? Or should I put pennies aside and buy the John Medley book and find out? (I do intend to but have to clear car repairs first, complete exhaust replacement, plus extractors and new shocks, springs and recoditioned struts were required prior to Rally Queensland as kind of emergency.)

yours
Mark Jones
"Regulations are for the clever intepretation of wise men and to be followed by fools" Colin Chapman.[p][Edited by Falcadore on 06-12-2000]

#31 Barry Lake

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Posted 13 June 2000 - 16:07

Falcadore
Forget the car for a while and buy the Medley book!
From memory:
1962 Cooper-Norton 500
1964 Jolus-Minx
1965 Jolus-Minx
1966 Elfin-Ford
1967 Elfin-Ford
1968 CRD-BMC
Hmmm, that only adds up to six, I always remebered it as seven. Maybe I was counting the year in the 1950s when we took our skid kid bikes up on the old steam train and raced them around the track! We slept on the picnic tables (gone now) up at McPhillamy Park with just a blanket, no sleeping bag. Freezing!
I have a photo of when I raced the Jolus-Minx there. The race car was parked among the Bathurst burrs next to a wire fence at the back of the members' camping area (Mountain Straight). An old tarpaulin was tossed over the car and over the fence, and I slept on an old tonneau cover from the back of a Ford Prefect ute on the ground between the race car and the fence. Again, no sleeping bag, just old blankets.
Modern drivers complain if they aren't in the best hotel!
Incidentally, I first went to Bathurst Easter 1951, when eight years old. My father was going with a couple of used car dealers and a butcher in a 1949 Ford Custom V8. I heard about it and badgered him to take me. Eventually they relented and squeezed me in between a car dealer and the burly, garlic-breathed butcher in the back seat.
I have never regretted it.
My father took me to Mount Druitt (airstrip only then), and Hawkesbury Hillclimb also in 1951. Then some speedway metings at the Sydney Sportsground and Sydney Showground, Mount Druitt 24 Hour Race 1954, the odd other Mount Druitt meeting here and there.
My second visit to Bathurst was Easter 1956 and I haven't missed a year since.
I think only Mike Kable, who died a week or so ago, was able to beat that, of people I have known. He was born in Bathurst, his parents' house on a corner of the old Vale motorcycle circuit. He was at the 1938 AGP meeting, he once told me, when three years old.

#32 Ray Bell

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Posted 13 June 2000 - 16:48

Yes, Mark, buy the book... get it from Mountain Motorbooks before it runs out, mention my name and he might look after you.
I told you before that if you learn to do your own repairs you'll actually have money left over...

#33 AyePirate

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Posted 14 June 2000 - 04:06

Originally posted by Huw Jenjin
Browsing through another thread, I started thinking about racers who did particularly well in racing despite having a huge physical handicap.
What are the regs these days about that, and who can you think of that fell into that category?


Ok, Back to the thread subject. Formula One drivers must be able to exit the car within
5 seconds. Schumacher had to pass this test last year before he was cleared to return from his
broken leg. I suppose this would rule out parapalegics.[p][Edited by AyePirate on 06-14-2000]

#34 Falcadore

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Posted 14 June 2000 - 13:21

Ray,
I do remember you saying that, and my best mate is very good at that sort of thing, we re-built the car's stereo last week, although I think Jon was disappointed I didn't put a full Dolby surround sound rig, you should he see his cars... we're not talking about the systems you see at sound-offs where the have to be operated by remote control from a distance with a sensor in the driver's seat. I digress.

The exhaust repairs I couldn't do myself, and had to be done prior to the suspension, which had to be done prior to Rally Qld because I had to chase the cars from Caloundra to Imbul and back again getting quotes for the media centre. I lost my surviving wing mirror attempting to keep up with Neal Bates on a transport after my navigator didn't show. I hate it when vegetation gets aggressive and jumps out at you like that. Only an hour before two rally cars had had a head on on a transport. Not pretty.

All things considered frantic but fun weekend for me. wish I could have shot some more. We some at all.

yours
Mark Jones

#35 Vitesse2

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Posted 15 June 2001 - 13:26

Prompted by Barry Boor's thread on Archie Scott-Brown, I wonder how many other top-flight drivers raced with what could be defined as a "disability", either congenital or as the result of an accident or injury.

A couple to start it off:
Alan Stacey had an artificial lower right leg - anyone know why?

Bruce McLaren walked with a pronounced limp, the result (IRRC) of childhood polio.

Over to you ...


#36 David McKinney

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Posted 15 June 2001 - 13:59

I would hardly call McLaren's limp a disability - lots of others have raced with worse limps. Oh, and it wasn't polio that McLaren suffered as a child, but a condition called Perthes syndrome.
As has been mentioned on another thread, Jim Palmer (another New Zealander, and multiple national champ) had only one eye. David Piper, who lost his lower leg in a Le Mans accident around 1970/71, still competes in historic racing with a prosthetic. David Good, not a circuit man but an ace nevertherless, was a leading hillclimber in the UK with no hand on one arm.

#37 Darren Galpin

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Posted 15 June 2001 - 14:39

See the thread

http://www.atlasf1.c...hlight=disabled

#38 Vitesse2

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Posted 15 June 2001 - 20:45

Interesting thread Darren, but it went seriously OT!!

Another one which occurred to me in an idle moment was Clay Regazzoni, who is still driving in historic rallies in a specially adapted car.

And who was that Danish(?) driver who came off a motorbike about four years ago - didn't he return to racing?

#39 Marcor

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Posted 15 June 2001 - 21:17

Jason Watt ??

And what about Nannini...

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#40 McSlick

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Posted 15 June 2001 - 21:34

That is Jason Watt

#41 Vitesse2

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Posted 15 June 2001 - 21:36

Jason Watt indeed - thank you Marc and McSlick!

And Nannini - oh yes! It must take great courage and strength to come back from that awful accident to race those DTM monsters and win!!

#42 LittleChris

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Posted 15 June 2001 - 23:40

Sandro is the subject of an article in this months MotorSport, but I've still got more admiration for Jason, given his injuries.

SORRY, I've got the utmost admiration for both of them, cos they've done what I could never do !

#43 Barry Lake

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Posted 16 June 2001 - 08:47

Can anyone tell me more about Jason Watt? I had wondered what had become of him.

Have there been any magazine stories? If so I would like to see a copy. Can anyone help?


#44 SennasCat

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Posted 16 June 2001 - 11:15

Barry,

I believe that the accident occurred in mid 99 and was for a photo shoot for a motor racing magazine somewhere in Europe. Watt was apparently showing off for the cameras and lost it, breaking his back and paralyzing him from the waist down. Saw an article in, I think, Motorsport News (the Australian one) where Watt was racing a small tourer in Europe now and Watt reckoned that he could still drive pretty fast despite the lack of feeling in his bum.

That's about as much as I remember about it.

Steve Williams
Sydney Australia

#45 SennasCat

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Posted 16 June 2001 - 11:17

Barry,

PS Forgot to mention, it was on a fast road bike at a race circuit where the photo shoot went bad

#46 David M. Kane

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Posted 16 June 2001 - 12:04

David McKinney did you ever see Bruce McLaren walk? Not only was it a limp, it was a pronounce limp that I feel almost required
a cane. His leg was at least an 1 to 2 inches shorter.

I'm not trying to be sarcastic, but we who are healthy tend to
make too much light of these sort of things. It required more
than minor adjustment to overcome and to adapt to that condition.

#47 David McKinney

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Posted 16 June 2001 - 16:02

DMK from D McK
Yes, I saw him walk many times, and it was a bad limp. I guess my point was that I wouldn't have thought it made much difference to his abilility to drive

#48 LittleChris

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Posted 16 June 2001 - 16:49

David Piper lost his lower leg during the filming of Le Mans. I think there's something in the credits about it.


#49 Barry Lake

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Posted 17 June 2001 - 09:08

Steve

Thanks for the info on Watts. I thought I had read that he was injured on his way home from the shoot, crashing his motorcycle off the road... but we all know how these stories can become distorted...


Speaking of Bruce McLaren's limp, there are two Bathurst winners with perhaps even more serious limps than Bruce's - both with heavily built up shoes to adjust their leg lengths. And I think both were due to the effects of childhood polio.

Barry Seton (father of Glenn), 1965 winner in a Ford Falcon.
Bob Holden, 1966 winner with Rauno Aaltonen in a Morris Cooper S.

There also is a 'lurker' on Atlas F1 who has driven historic open wheelers for many years with one arm - but I will let him decide if he wishes to tell his story.


#50 ry6

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Posted 17 June 2001 - 09:28

John Love had a bad crash in a Tyrell entered Cooper Junior at Albi circa 1962 and injured an arm very badly.
He overcame this problem well though.
As a result the elbow never worked properly after that.
He said " I have no trouble going thru left hand corner, but on all right handers I have to take my left hand off the wheel where
I pull with my right hand and let the wheel slip thru my left.
When I change gears I grab the wheel with my left, swop cogs, and go back to one hand again.
John won the British saloon car championship in a Mini-Cooper S and several South African Championships. He also very nearly won a World Championship GP in a privately enetered car when fuel pick up problems caused him to stop for fuel in the closing laps.