84 replies to this topic

[Louis Mr. F1]

Alright, i know there were lots of discussions about the rivalry between Prost VS Senna but here's an article i found, from Prost's own words. There were some insider stories and quite interesting, ie. how Honda treated the drivers, Prost invited Senna to his home for lunch......It's a long article, so if you want, just read the first few paragraphs and judge yourself whether you want to continue or not.

i'm not sure if this has been posted before, but here it comes.


MOTOR SPORT, 01.10.1998



Ayrton Senna - by Alain Prost

"Honestly, it's very difficult for me to talk about Ayrton, and not only because he's
not here any more. He was so different, you know, so completely different from any
other racing driver - any other person - I've ever known..."

Speaking now, more than four years after the death of Ayrton Senna, Alain Prost is
in an invidious position, for while the two are linked for ever, indisputably the best
drivers of their generation, so also each was very much the other's nemesis. That
being the case, in discussing Senna, Prost cannot win, and Prost knows it. Come out
with only kind words, and some will say that he sang a very different tune when
Ayrton was alive; go the other way, and they will vilify him for daring to criticise a
defenceless icon.

"That's why I have always refused to speak about him," says Prost. "When he died,
I said, that I felt a part of me had died also, because our careers had been so bound
together. And I really meant it, but I know some people thought it was not sincere.
Well, all I can do is try to be as honest as possible."

From the very beginning of Ayrton Senna's Formula One career, back in 1984, his sights
were set squarely on Prost. In a way it was inevitable, for Ayrton was a man of extraordinary
intensity, one who needed to prove himself the best in all things, and at that time Alain was
very much the king of the hill. It was their very first meeting that was to set the tone of their
relationships down the years.

"I remember it very well. In the spring of 1984, the new Nürburgring was opened, and there
was a celebrity race for Grand Prix drivers of the past and present, in Mercedes road cars. I
was coming from Geneva to Frankfurt on a scheduled flight, and Ayrton was due to land half
an hour before, so Gerd Kremer of Mercedes asked me if I would bring him to the track. On
the way we chatted, and he was very pleasant. Then we got to the track, and practised the
cars. I was on pole, with Ayrton second - after that he didn't talk to me any more! It seemed
funny at the time. Then in the race, I took the lead - and he pushed me off the track after half
a lap. So that was a good start..."

That year, 1984, was Senna's first in F1, and his Toleman-Hart was not on par with the front
runners. At Monaco, though, there was rain, and when the race was abandoned, shortly
before half-distance, the rookie was right on the point of passing Prost's McLaren for the
lead.

"From the beginning, he looked good, although you can't always tell for sure when a guy is
with a small team. He drove a great race at Monaco, but in those days - when monocoques
were far less stiff than now - it was quite possible to have a poor car in the dry turn out to be
very good in the wet. Of course we all rated him, but with the reservation that sometimes a
young driver looks quite good, but then joins a top team, and looks ordinary. There's always
some doubt until the guy gets into a quick car. With Ayrton, though, it was pretty clear he had
a special talent."

"Something else people should remember is that, 15 years ago, there were a lot more very
good drivers in F1 than there are now. For sure Ayrton did well from the beginning, but he
showed nothing that was truly exceptional before Monaco. Monaco was the thing: after that
everyone discovered him, and talked about him. Without that, it might have taken a little
longer, but the impressive thing, as I say, was that he looked so good at a time when there
were so many top drivers..."

Senna was also, from the start no respecter of reputations, and that upset many an established
star. After a single season with Toleman, he joined Lotus-Renault for 1985, brilliantly won the
Portuguese Grand Prix (again in the rain), and was a front runner everywhere. But at
Hockenheim, for example, he made a mistake at the Ostkurve, and when Michele Alboreto
went to pass, Ayrton swerved left and right to keep him back. Back then such tactics were
not embraced by the F1 community.

"Hmmm, yes, Senna was very tough in that way, from the start. Actually, one thing I really
believe now is that it wasn't so much a matter of being that tough as having his own rules. He
had them, he believed in them, and that was it."

"He was extremely religious, and he used to go on about that, about speaking the truth, about
his education, his upbringing, and everything else. At the time, I used to think that some of the
things he did on the track didn't fit with all that, but now it seems to me he really didn't know
he was sometimes in the wrong. As I said, he had these rules, he played by them, and he
wasn't interested in anything else. Looking back, I really think he believed he was always in
the right, always telling the truth - and on the track he was exactly the same way."

It was not, however, until Senna became Prost's team-mate, in 1988, that there were any
problems between them. The year before, Lotus had used Honda engines, and Ayrton had
established a deep relationship with the Japanese engineers. As he came to McLaren, so also
did Honda. And one team insider puts it this way: "I tended to think of Prost as a McLaren
driver with a Honda engine, and Senna as a Honda driver with a McLaren chassis."

"Yes, I think that was a good way of putting it. My biggest problem was that I really loved
McLaren, and wanted to do everything I could for the team. For my team-mate in '88, it was
a choice between Senna and Nelson Piquet. When I went with Ron (Dennis) to Japan, to
meet the Honda people, I said that Ron should take Ayrton, because he was the more
talented driver, and for me the team came first. If I was going back to the start of my racing
career now, I would do it rather differently - I would concentrate on me and my job..."

"In fact, I could have said no to Ayrton coming to McLaren. One strength I have is that
normally when I make a decision, I don't regret it, but, from my own point of view, on that
occasion I definitely made a mistake!"

In the very first pre-season test the did together, in Rio, Prost saw that Senna was
emphatically not doing this for the fun of it. "We were tyre-testing, just using one car. I did the
first run, and he was then due to take it over. I came into the pits, and the mechanics began to
change the wheels. I could see Ayrton there, helmet on, pacing around, waiting for me to get
out, so I decided to stay in the car just a little longer. And he got furious, telling everyone, 'It's
not fair, it's not fair!' Then I got out, and I was laughing. He was not...

"Actually, though, our working relationship through that first season was pretty good. The only
problem was at Estoril, at the end of the first lap."

It was a moment which will never be forgotten by anyone there to witness it. Down the pit
straight Prost slipstreamed Senna, then ducked right to go by, whereupon Ayrton swerved
towards him, putting him maybe six inches from the pit wall. Alain didn't lift, and emerged into
a lead which he would keep to the end, but afterwards he made his feelings plain.

"That move in Estoril was very dangerous, and, yes, I was angry afterwards. I was right
against the pit wall, and I really thought we were going to touch, and have a big crash - with
the whole pack right behind us. I didn't like it at all, and told him so, but, in a way, I can't
blame him for doing it, because he did always get away with it. How many times in his
Formula One career was Ayrton sanctioned for that kind of thing? Never."

"Still, apart from that, the first year wasn't too bad. On a few occasions he was quite tough
and uncompromising with me, but we didn't really have any other problems. And, in fact, he
did apologise to me for what happened in Portugal."

The pair had a staggering season in 1988, Prost scoring more points (105, from seven wins
and seven seconds) than Senna (94, from eight wins, and three seconds), but Ayrton claiming
the driver's championship, 90 points to 87, by virtue of the '11 best scores' rule which applied
at the time.

"At the end of '88 I was very pleased for the team - we were first and second in the
championship, and I really wasn't too upset that he won the title; I'd won it twice already by
then, it wasn't a problem."

"For '89, though, I was worried about Honda. And I think my biggest problem was that I
never had the relationship with them that Ayrton did. From the beginning, it was something I
never felt I had under control. I wouldn't have cared very much if they'd simply preferred one
driver in the team - but the way they handled the situation was very difficult for me, because
Senna and I had very different driving styles."

"I never understood why Honda took his side so much. It wasn't that I thought it was a
question of the Brazilian sales marked or the French market, or anything like that. It was more
a human thing. I worked with Honda again last year - now as a team owner - and it struck me
again: I think the Japanese just work differently. In a team, they always favour someone over
the rest. I've heard it said about their motorcycle teams as well."

"Let me give you an example. At one point in '88, the last year we were allowed to run
turbos, I asked for some specific changes to the engine to suit my driving style and we
worked on it for two days at Paul Ricard. At the end of that test I was very happy - but at the
next race, one week later, they never put that strategy on my engine."

"Then we went to the French Grand Prix - at Ricard - and suddenly the engine was just as I
had wanted! You understand what I'm saying? Ayrton and I raced for two seasons together in
the McLaren-Hondas, and at both the French Grands Prix I was on pole position and won
the race. Everyone said, 'Oh look, it's Prost in front of his home crowd', and that sort of thing.
It was nothing like that; it was just that at those races I had something which enabled me to
fight..."

"Understand me, this is nothing against Ayrton, OK? Ayrton was very quick, and in qualifying
he was much better than me - much more committed, just as I think I was when I was the
younger driver in the team, against Niki (Lauda)."

"Anyway, before the 1989 season I had dinner at the golf club in Geneva with Honda's then
chairman, Mr Kawamoto and four other people. And he admitted that I was right in believing
that Honda was more for Ayrton than for me."

"He said, 'You want to know why we push Senna so much? Well, I can't be 100 per cent
sure.' But one thing he did let me know was that the new generation of engineers working on
the engines were in favour of Ayrton, because he was more the samurai, and I was more the
computer."

"So, that was an explanation, and I was very happy afterwards, because then at least I knew
very well that something was not correct. Part of my problem had been that Ayrton was so
bloody quick, it wasn't easy to know how much was that, and how much was Honda helping
him. So after this dinner with Mr Kawamoto, I thought, 'Well, at least I'm not stupid -
something really was going on, and now I know the situation.'"

Whatever, the situation was not to improve. Quite the opposite, in fact. In 1989, the fragile
relationship between Prost and Senna broke apart utterly, and that existing between Alain and
McLaren was not a lot better.

"Until then, I never had a problem with anyone at McLaren, but '89 was different. My
contract was due to expire at the end of the year, but Ayrton's was not. Ron knew the future
of his team was with Honda - and therefore with Senna. He tried hard to persuade me to stay,
but in reality he couldn't keep both of us, and I told him in July that I would be leaving at the
end of the season. In my opinion, he was not fair with me in '89. We're still very good friends,
and, despite everything, I still even now think of McLaren as my team. But Ron knows my
feelings about that period."

"At the time, I was completely disillusioned. After everything I'd done with the team, and for
the team, I didn't think I should have been treated like that. But at the end of the day, you
know, Ron was trying to push his company to the front, and of course I can understand that a
little."

It was at Imola that the most bitter feud in motor-racing history took seed. Senna and Prost,
as usual, qualified 1-2, a second and a half clear of the rest, and Ayrton suggested that they
not jeopardise their prospects by fighting at the first corner, Tosa, on the opening lap:
whomsoever got there first would keep the lead. Alain agreed. At the start, Senna led away,
and at Tosa Prost duly fell in behind him.

Then, however, the race was stopped, when Gerhard Berger had a serious accident. On the
restart, it was Prost who got ahead - but at Tosa Senna snicked by into the lead.

"Afterwards, he argued that it wasn't the start - it was the restart, so the agreement didn't
apply. As I said, he had his own rules, and sometimes they were very... well let's say strange.
It had been Ayrton's idea, in the first place, and I didn't have a problem with it. Afterwards,
though, I said it was finished; I'd continue to work with him, in technical matters, but as far as
our personal relationship was concerned, that was it. And the atmosphere in the team became
very bad, of course."

"By the time we got to Monza, I was ahead of him in the championship, by about 10 points.
But that race. was the real low point between McLaren and me. Senna had two cars, with 20
people around him, and I had just one car, with maybe four or five mechanics working for me.
I was absolutely alone, in one part of the garage, and that was perhaps the toughest weekend
of my racing career. Honda was really hard against me by then, and it was difficult trying to
fight for the championship in that situation. In practice, Ayrton was nearly two seconds
quicker than me - OK, as I said, he was certainly a better qualifier than I was, but two
seconds? That was a joke."

In the race though, Senna retired, and Prost won; by the time they headed off to Suzuka and
Adelaide, the last two races of the 1989 season, Alain led by 16 points. By now McLaren-
Honda essentially worked as two different teams, which happened to operate out of the same
pit. Once again, the two red and white cars were in front row, both its drivers in defiant
mood, Senna knowing he had to win, Prost making it clear he'd be no pushover.

"I told both the team and the press, 'There's no way I'm going to open the door to him any
more.' We talked very often, you should know, about the first corner, the first lap, and Ron
always said the important thing was that we shouldn't hit each other, we should think of the
team. Well, as far as I was concerned, Senna thought about himself, and that was it. For
example, at the start of the British Grand Prix that year, going into Copse, if I hadn't moved
three or four metres out of the way we'd have hit each other, and both McLarens would have
been out immediately. That sort of thing had happened too often; I had had enough."

"As for the accident between us at the chicane, yes, I know everybody thinks I did it on
purpose. What I say is that I did not open the door, and that's it. I didn't want to finish the
race like that - I'd led from the start, and I wanted to win it."

"I had a good car; I'd been very bad in qualifying, compared with Ayrton, and I concentrated
entirely on the race. In the warm-up I was nearly a second quicker than him, and for the race
itself I was quite confident, even when he started catching me."

"I didn't want him too close, obviously, but I wanted him close enough that he would hurt his
tyres; my plan was then to pus hard over the last ten laps. As it was he tried to pass - and for
me the way he did it was impossible, because he was going so much quicker than usual into
the braking area."

"I couldn't believe he tried it on that lap, because, as we came up to the chicane, he was so far
back. When you look in your mirrors, and a guy is 20 metres behind you, it's impossible to
judge, and I didn't even realise he was trying to overtake me. But at the same time I thought,
'There's no way I'm going to leave him even a one-metre gap. No way'. I came off the throttle
braked - and turned in."

A year later the two were back at Suzuka, once again to settle the World Championship, and
this time it was Alain who had to win. Although no longer in the same team, he and Ayrton
had not in any way diluted the intensity of their strife. Prost, said Senna, had better not try to
turn into the first corner ahead of him: 'If he does, he's not going to make it...' In the event, at
150mph, the McLaren ran into the back of the Ferrari.

"Well, what can you say about that? After I'd retired we talked about it, and he admitted to
me - as he did to the press - that he'd done it on purpose. He explained to me why he did it.
He was furious with (FIA President) Balestre for not agreeing to change the grid, so that he
could start on the left, and he told me he had decided that if I got to the first corner ahead of
him, he'd push me off."

"What happened in Japan in '90 is something I will never forget, because it wasn't only Ayrton
who was involved. Some of the people at McLaren, a lot of officials - and a lot of media -
agreed with what he'd done, and that I couldn't accept. Honestly I almost retired after that
race."

"As I always said, you know, he didn't want to beat me, metaphorically he wanted to destroy
me - that was his motivation from the first day. Even in that Mercedes touring car race, back
in '84, I realised that he wasn't interested in beating Alan Jones or Keke Rosberg or anyone
else - it was me, just me, for some reason."

Right to the end of Prost's career as a driver, that situation never changed. But on the podium
in Adelaide in 1993, Alain's last race, the two embraced, and it was as if, now that Alain was
no longer a rival, Ayrton saw no reason for any more hostility. Prost was surprised by the
gesture.

"Yes, I was - and also a little bit disappointed, to be honest. This will tell you something about
Ayrton. In Japan, the race before, he won, and I was second. As we walked from the podium
to the press conference, I said to him, 'This may be the last race where we are at a press
conference together, and I think we should show the people something nice - maybe shake
hands, or something.' He didn't answer me, but he didn't say no, either, so I thought maybe he
agreed. We went to the press conference - and he wouldn't even look at me."

"In fact, I'd even thought maybe in Australia we could exchange helmets, the last helmets we'd
worn in a race against each other - but after Japan, I forgot about it, because he hadn't
seemed interested in any sort of reconciliation."

"Then we went to Adelaide, and finished first and second again. On our way to the podium
afterwards, already he was starting to talk a little bit, and he said to me, 'What are you going
to do now?' I was very surprised! 'I don't know yet', I said. 'You're going to be fat,' he sad,
and he smiled. Then on the podium he put his arm round me, shook hands, and everything.
Why? Because now it was his idea, and it was on his terms. OK, in any case, that was nice.
But that was Ayrton - if it was his idea, fine; if not, forget it."

Later Senna would admit to a close friend that only after Prost's retirement had he come fully
to realise how much of his motivation had come from fighting with this one rival. Only a couple
of days before his death, filming an in-car lap of Imola for Elf, he amazed everyone with a
spontaneous greeting: 'I'd like to welcome back my friend Alain - we all miss you...' Prost was
touched by that.

"In fact, after I'd retired we spoke quite often on the telephone. He called me several times,
usually to talk about safety; he wanted me to keep involved with that, and we had agreed to
talk about it at Imola. That weekend he was talking, talking, talking, about safety, and he was
much softer than before - for me, he changed completely in '94. He seemed to me very down
somehow, without the same power as before."

"We had this conversation on the Friday, and I saw him again on the Sunday morning - after
Roland Ratzenberger's fatal accident, of course. I was with a lot of people at the Renault
motorhome at the time. You know how Ayrton usually was - he'd go from the garage straight
to the motorhome, but that morning I was very surprised, because he came into the middle of
all these people, which he would never normally do, just to get to me. We had a chat, and he
was trying really had to be nice, to be friendly."

"Then I saw him in the garage briefly. I didn't want to disturb him, but I knew he wanted help,
that he needed somebody. That was obvious. We were going to speak again the following
week..."

Senna's funeral took place in Sao Paulo, four days later, and Prost was one of many drivers in
attendance. It was not a particularly difficult decision to take, he said, except in one respect.

"I knew I wanted to go, but Ayrton and I had such a history for so long that I didn't really
know how the Brazilian people would perceive it: would they be upset if I went, upset if I
didn't go, or what? The day after the accident, I was in Paris, and a good friend of Jean-Luc
Lagadere (the chairman of Matra) called me. His wife was Brazilian, and I asked his advice. 'I
have my ticket ready', I said, 'but what do you think I should do?' He told me I should
definitely go, that the Brazilian people would like that. I didn't have to be pushed - I already
wanted to go - but he convinced me. And I know now that if I hadn't gone, I would have
regretted it for the rest of my life."

"There was no hostility towards me in Sao Paulo at all - the very opposite, in fact. I'm still in
contact with Ayrton's family all the time; the day after the funeral, his father invited me to his
farm, and we talked for a long time. And I see his sister very often, do what I can to help with
the foundation."

"Ayrton was certainly the best driver I ever raced against, by a long, long way. He was, by
far, the most committed driver I ever saw. To be honest, I think maybe the best race driver -
in terms of really applying intelligence - was Niki, but overall Ayrton was the best, by far. He
was very successful in everything that mattered to him, everything that he set out to achieve for
himself."

"Actually, I think it's not impossible that in time we might have become friends. We shared an
awful lot, after all, and one thing never changed - even when our relationship was at its worst -
was our great respect for each other as drivers. I don't think either of us worried too much
about anyone else. And there were those times we did have fun together, you know. Not very
often, but..."

"He was just strange, you know. In 1988, I remember, we had to go to the Geneva Motor
Show for Honda; it's only 40 kilometres from my house, so I asked him to come over for
lunch first, and then we'd drive there together. He came to my house - and slept for two
hours! Hardly spoke at all."

"Then, after lunch, we went for a walk, and I still remember our conversation clearly. I liked
to talk to him: sometimes it could be boring if he was going on about something, but usually it
was fascinating. Yes, I think maybe we could have become friends eventually. Once we were
not rivals any more everything changed."

"I look back on those days now and think to myself, 'Jesus, what was that all about? Why did
we put ourselves through all of that?' Sometimes it seemed like a bad dream. Maybe because
usually we were so much in front, it was inevitable that there would be problems between us,
but why did it have to get so venomous - why did we have to live like that? I used to say to
people, 'You're a fan of Ayrton Senna? Good, that's fine - but please don't hate me!' It was
the same with the press."

"The pressure was so high, so high... If we had to do it all again, I think I'd say to Ayrton,
'Listen, we're the best, we can screw all the others!' With a lot of intelligence, it could have
been such good dream. Still, even as it turned out, it was a fantastic story, don't you think?
And I think, in a way, we're missing a little of that today."

Alain Prost was talking to Nigel Roebuck

[magic]

the two best drivers of all time?

[Ross Stonefeld]

Possibly, but only up till now

[molive]

"Ayrton was certainly the best driver I ever raced against, by a long, long way. He was, by
far, the most committed driver I ever saw. To be honest, I think maybe the best race driver -
in terms of really applying intelligence - was Niki, but overall Ayrton was the best, by far. He
was very successful in everything that mattered to him, everything that he set out to achieve for
himself."

Right on, Alain.

BTW, I still remember as if it was today, Alain´s face in the funeral procedings....there was a lot of respect there. Prost knew he was witnessing the death of a great driver, and the birth of a legend.

[molive]

A question:

Would Prost be so highly regarded if he did not have Ayrton as a rival? IMO, no.

[Ross Stonefeld]

The same must be said of Ayrton

A win is only as good as the person who comes second

[Jecko]

That was a pretty good read.

[kenny]

they both pushed each other, to what they are today...
One of the best drivers the world has ever seen, and possibly ...will see.

the respect they had for eachother goes deeper, I think, than we can imagine...

and about the qoute Molive posted... You're damn right Alain...;)

[John B]

Molive,

I think if Prost did not have Senna as a rival, he would have added more titles and wins to his resume, which would have put him in even higher regard. He may have ended up with 7 or 8 championships in this scenario. Who would have stood as his opposition from 1988-1993?

[Nira]

I never cared that much for Prost, but I really liked how he did that interview. It was respectful but not without criticism. It gave an interesting perspective on Senna and the battle they had together.

A real class act by Prost, and very moving indeed.

[Louis Mr. F1]

i wonder who would've come out on top if Honda didn't prefer one driver over another. what a shame, Ayrton didn't need that.
you have to feel sorry for Prost @ Monza 89.

[magic]

__________________________________

quote Louis Mr. F1 i wonder who would've come out on top if Honda didn't prefer one driver over another. what a shame, Ayrton didn't need that.
you have to feel sorry for Prost @ Monza 89.
__________________________________

in '84 mac was lauda's team up untill prost beat him at every qualifying and race.
in fact prost took over niki's team.
why did mac and porsche favour prost?
cause him a quicker and better bet.

in '88 mac was prost's team up untill senna beat him at every qualifying and race.
in fact senna took over prost's team.
why did mac and honda favour senna?
cause him a quicker and better bet.

[magic]

ps.

imola early '88, mac's new mp4/4 first test.

'...prost went out first, putting in faster times than all the other teams.
then senna tried it, easily mastering the new car and turning in laps around a second faster than prost.
that test had an electrifying effect on the whole team...'

quote ivan rendall, 'ayron senna, a tribute', page 87, isbn 1 85793 517 9.

[Ross Stonefeld]

And Prost was reknowned for driving at 90% during a test but still giving amazing feedback

[scokim]

I seem to remember after Senna died Prost said that, out of respect for Senna, he would never drive a F1 car again.

A year or so later he was testing one.

When asked, he replied that what he said was he would never 'race' in one.

[asterix]

the best thing about that era and the senna/prost duels was than prost often used different tactics to combat sennas natural greater speed (tire wear etc.)

there was some room for the driver to control his own race from within the car, seems as thou this art has been lost

meant that the driver leading with 10 laps to go didn't necessarily win like with todays races

just a thought!

[westendorf]

Ross, sometimes no one needs to be second. The track can provide a very worthy challenge, Monoco or SPA in the rain just for an example. How about the old Nurburgring?
Sempre SENNA!

[The RedBaron]

As an ex-Prost fan, I remember those duels very well, and reading Prost's quote to Nigel Roebuck reminded me why I never liked Senna.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Point still applies, assemble the right group of drivers and Lavaggi could win Monaco

[colejk]

Yes,

just goes to reconfirm why I think Senna was such an A-hole.
I remember 88 and 89 very clearly, and the fact that Prost was shafted out of the WDC in 88 due to the points system at that time really pissed me off none the least.

I still can't see how 1 man can be so immortalized. He was a great driver but that's it. there have been better and will be better.

[Louis Mr. F1]

do you agree with Prost that when Ron Dennis stressed the two drivers had to think about the team first, Prost had followed his team order while Senna was trying to take advantage of that, putting himself first?

while Prost was not remember as a driver who made exciting moves, in 88, he did make a few exceptional passes on Senna, if you remember, there's the French GP agressive move, in Hungary 3 cars alongside the main straight, Senna was trying to pass a slower car, Prost passed both on the far right side of the track, but then slid wide and lost the position again, and in Portugal, he didn't lift off even when Senna was pushing him toward the pit wall. Meanwhile Senna was able to pass Prost in Japan with a equally impressive move.

in 89, Senna was also involved in lots of controversies, (just like Schuey was in 97, 98) his 1st corner crash with Berger in Brazil, spun off in Britain, crashed with Mansell in Portugal, then finally with Prost in Japan (completed the grandslam)

[argos]

What a wonderful insight into two of the best in F1. Prost's reflections give a remarkable insight to Senna as well as himself. It's amazing to think that these two competed against each other for 10 seasons, won 7 WDC's and had 92 F1 victories between them. And if that's not impressive enough, they were not only racing each other but Lauda, Piquet and Mansell.

I've always been more of a Prost fan, I suppose because my personality is closer to Prost's than Senna's. I also thought Senna's actions on the track were at times a bit over the top. After reading Prost's insights into Senna's personality and just how much he respected and cared for Senna even after all they had been through together, I must say it left me with a newfound respect for Ayrton Senna, the man. While I always respected his driving talents, I now view Ayrton Senna in an entirely new light.

[magic]

quotes Louis Mr. F1
__________________________________

while Prost was not remember as a driver who made exciting moves, in 88, he did make a few exceptional passes on Senna, if you remember, there's the French GP agressive move,
__________________________________

m;good move by prost but senna was slowed by geartrouble
__________________________________

in Hungary 3 cars alongside the main straight, Senna was trying to pass a slower car, Prost passed both on the far right side of the track, but then slid wide and lost the position again,
__________________________________

m;senna opened the door and braked earlier than prost expected, prost missed the apex, senna went for the gap regained the lead and never looked back. and won.

__________________________________

and in Portugal, he didn't lift off even when Senna was pushing him toward the pit wall.
__________________________________

m;after the start AND the restart prost chopped senna,
later on he made it likewise hard for prost to pass him, senna having cartroubles ( handling and fuel)

__________________________________

Meanwhile Senna was able to pass Prost in Japan with a equally impressive move.

in 89, Senna was also involved in lots of controversies, (just like Schuey was in 97, 98) his 1st corner crash with Berger in Brazil,
__________________________________

m;senna's mistake was his ego here, only he should lead the BRASIL gp.

__________________________________
spun off in Britain,
__________________________________

m;geartrouble for senna

__________________________________

crashed with Mansell in Portugal,
__________________________________

m; nige was already 3 laps blackflagged and should not have raced with senna.

__________________________________
then finally with Prost in Japan (completed the grandslam)
__________________________________

m;prost rammed senna

[Ross Stonefeld]

Geez you guys, Senna is perfect, havent you figured it out yet?

[theMot]

Sennas best ability was his charisma, thats something i would say Prost didnt have much off. He was sort of like Mohummed Ali for that, even though they were not the best the press loved them to death so they spun alot of nice stories about them and people believed it.

Go look at that post i did a few days ago, Prost very easily could have been a 7 times champion. You could never say that about Senna even if he had of lived.

[Cinquecento]

I was a big Prost fan at the time of the hottest duel, my best mate was a Senna fan. It was terrible. We fought like idiots, the pressure was awful.

Anyway, reading that (again) still lights my fire. That's exactly how I saw Senna at the time. Hot headed man in denial, yet too bloody awesome a driver. Suzuka on both occasions was Senna's fault, and Ron Dennis with his "two equal cars" is a worm.

[magic]

quote RossStonefeld         
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Geez you guys, Senna is perfect, havent you figured it out yet?
------------------------------------------------------------------------

nope, '...a flawed genius.."
quote alan henry, autocourse.

btw wasn't that german bloke perfect?

[scokim]

Originally posted by Louis Mr. F1

"I couldn't believe he tried it on that lap, because, as we came up to the chicane, he was so far
back. When you look in your mirrors, and a guy is 20 metres behind you, it's impossible to
judge, and I didn't even realise he was trying to overtake me. But at the same time I thought,
'There's no way I'm going to leave him even a one-metre gap. No way'. I came off the throttle
braked - and turned in."

Sounds very familiar......Schumacher crashing into Villeneuve ??

[magic]

that's right, macao'90, aidelaide '94 and jerez '97 all started when prost turned in 20 metres earlier autumn '89.

i have a quote somewhere in which ms says that after watching the senna/mansell/prost crashes he thought it was accepted to take others off.
a fact.

[Bernd]

BAH! There has only ever been one perfect driver his name was Jim Clark.

Senna/Prost are both one step down the ladder only Fangio was on the same plane of existence.

[PK]

Very nice reading,

As an ex-Prost fan I too found that his views on the rivalry between Senna and him closely matched my views on the situation at the time.

Also I don't see how Suzuka '89 can be compared with Suzuka '90 or Schumis feats in Macao, Adelaide and Jerez. IMO there is a difference between not moving aside and keeping one's driving line and either deliberately crashing into somebody from behind or zigzagging and changing driving lines to deliberately cause a crash.

[magic]

try to explain that to ms.

[scokim]

well, actually i was referring the EXPLANATION MS gave for trying to take out JV and not the actual maneouver. MS also said that he thought JV was too far back and didn't think JV could pass him under brakes. this sounds exactly like what Prost is saying.

[Clatter]

Excellent read.

This certainly shows that teams can in a big way favour one driver over the other. There are several people here who always say this isnt possible (usually in regard to MS), but here AP shows how it happens.

NM always said the same thing happened to him at Ferrari when AP joined the team.

[pRy]

Yeah, part of the article reminded me of MH and DC at McLaren, almost made me think its a Ron Dennis thing.

I felt sorry for Senna too.. maybe Alain hit on a valid point. 1994 must have been quite a lonely year for Senna.
His rival Prost had retired. Mansell was in his second Indycar year. Berger was racing, but not really at the front. He must have felt quite lonely, his old rivals had disapeared and left him racing some young German. The Williams team was in a mess, not like the Williams Senna had thought against when he was at McLaren. Much was expected, little was being delivered. It mst have been very hard for him.

[Louis Mr. F1]

also, before the season started, MAYBE Senna wasn't as motivated as usual since his main target, Prost is already retired and he sensed that he could only lose the title with a Williams car. Suddenly he's the senior member of the grid, no Prost, Patrese, Warwick, Alboreto....racing drivers much younger than him, it was all a strange feeling to him.

That's why when Prost visited him at Imola, he was so happy to see him, a familiar face, he was still very new in the Williams environment.

[Simioni]

Well, if Alain said it, then it must be true right? Afterall, the man doen't have one nasty bone on his body...

The article just emphasizes once again the political skills of Mr. Prost. The whole thing is put through his perspective, but he makes it sound as though he's trying hard to be impartial and you people buy it.

To quote Jarno Trulli once again, "nothing is ever Alain's fault".[p][Edited by Simioni on 01-05-2001]

[Jecko]

You're right it's all a big fat lie. Everyone knows that Senna was a perfect angel right?

[Simioni]

Originally posted by Jecko
You're right it's all a big fat lie. Everyone knows that Senna was a perfect angel right?

Absolutely he wasn't. Nor was Prost as it has been proved time and again, but you take what he says as if it was written in the bible. At least Senna never tried to make up stories to explain why he couldn't keep up with another driver.

[magic]

quote pRy------------------------------
The Williams team was in a mess, not like the Williams Senna had thought against when he was at McLaren. Much was expected, little was being delivered. It mst have been very hard for him.
----------------------------------------------------------


it was a dream turning into a nightmare.

'91.
only the early season activewilliams teething troubles and senna's 4 consequetive seasonopeningvics combined with the brilliant spa and monza vics prevented a mansell-in-an-active-newey-renault-williams walkover.

in '92 nothing stopped nige to steamroll the entire opposition.
the unreliable and cumbersome mac didn't help senna either to defend his title against the onsong newey-renault-active-williams.

in '93 an at 90% driving prost steamrolled the entire opposition, only senna's brilliant braslian, donington, monaco, suzuka and aidelaide vics prevented a newey-renault-active-williams walkover.

so for '94 the only guy who made sir frank lose sleep those 3 seasons joined them.

the best driver in the best car.

a supportive second driver hill.
mac'88-like domination without prost messing things up.
16 vics for senna, an easy 4th wdc.
that was the opinion of ALL.

only ford, byrne, brawn, briatore, walkingshaw, ms and benneton having other plans for '94.

the first year without active ride proved to be a tougher nut to crack for head then people had imagined.
newey making an aerofxckup on the front didn't help either.

the first alarming signal was at the winter estoril tests, ms 0.2 quicker than senna.
the experts knew that benneton were bluffing and williams sandbagging.

wrong, williams were in big trouble.
senna and hill complaining about the tricky williams handling, ms enjoying the best car he ever drove (quote).

in brasil '94 a prost or hill would have become second, not senna.
this was his country, his fans and the year he would become wdc.
he pushed the car over it's limits like he did in qualifying, closed on ms and spun.
what a loss of face and points.
senna vs ms, 0-10.

aida, new track, old trouble for williams.
a miracle pole by senna, ms winning the start inspite of starting on the dirty side of the track, without any wheelspin. hmmm..
senna not chopping but remarkably making way for ms, not wanting to tangle ( the new mature senna ).
as a result first hak than larini bumped into senna.
senna vs ms, 0-20.

imola, testing, a still troublesome williams.

autosport imola preview cover;
a pensive senna picture, 'will he crack under pressure'.

everybody still waiting for senna and williams to bounce back and win the next 14 races.

imola race.
again miracle pole by senna, rb in hospital, ratzenberger dead.
senna leads, steering gone, senna gone.

fade to black.

[Bell]

To be honest Im fed up with all this nonsense about the '94 Williams being a dog and that Senna putting it on pole was a 'miracle'. IMHO Senna had the best car, and was still the fastest over one lap, but schumacher had his measure in the races. Senna's spins at Interlagos and Aida show that he was starting to feel the pressure. In 94 Senna had simply met his match. Remember Schuey beat Senna in 92 with an inferior car!

[cuckoo bird]

thanx for the article Mr. Lois.

it is so emotional.

personally I would rate Alain Prost v Ayrton Senna as the greatest rivalry in the history of Formula One. So intensed,

the two of them couldn't have been more different,...
different driving styles, different apporach to the race,
different personality, and Senna seemed the much more hungrier and aggressive of the two. But ....Prost as ever is not going to be intimidated by Senna.

and ... this guy Prost, he is really very very hard man as well, mentally hard.... even though it doesn't seem so on the track.
I can't believe how Prost overcame the political situation in 1989 to win the title. Winning the title when he had already signed for Ferrari, this really showed something about Prost ..

if it was other driver in Prost's shoes in 1989... for eg. Mika Hakkinen,HHF or Rubens ,those who are not hard men, i would see these guys absolutely destroyed.

[cuckoo bird]

The post Senna/Prost era rivalry was nothing compared to theirs.

The rivalry between Damon Hill and MS is a joke, not intensed enough, Damon Hill is no match for MS. 1993-1996

The rivalry between JV and MS shortlived. 1996-1997

The rivalry between Mika and MS 1998-.........
well, it is popular opinion that MS has finally got a match. So perhaps this would be the longest rivalry and the most intensed for MS.
but still something is missing, Mika Hakkinen is too much of a gentleman off the track and on it. I don't like this rivalry between Mika and MS as well, all I hear is praise among each other.

There was one thing that I really wished had happened-
the race in Spa 2000, I really wished that Mika crashed into MS when MS aggressively chopped infront of him. Then we might see a new World War 3.
Too bad, it didn't happen.

[magic]

quoteBell
Junior Member  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
To be honest Im fed up with all this nonsense about the '94 Williams being a dog and that Senna putting it on pole was a 'miracle'. IMHO Senna had the best car, and was still the fastest over one lap, but schumacher had his measure in the races. Senna's spins at Interlagos and Aida show that he was starting to feel the pressure. In 94 Senna had simply met his match. Remember Schuey beat Senna in 92 with an inferior car!
------------------------------------------------------------------------

hey junior,
do me and yourself a favour and go trough the atlasbb archives.

if you still want some answers after that, i'd be glad to help you out.

[Bell]

meaning what exactly....Im just stating what happened rather than looking at things through yellow and green tinted glasses. Senna was probably the greatest driver that ever lived, but he wasn't invincible. Schumacher simply had him on the run at the start of 94.

[Simioni]

Bell,

In fact, Frank Williams, Patrick Head, Adrian Newey, Ayrton Senna, Damon Hill, Ross Brawn and Michael Schumacher have stated that benetton was in better shape than williams for at least the beginning of the 94 season. The first five, members of the williams team at the time, confirmed the severity of the balance problems with the FW16. But of course, who are them to disagree with you and your immense inside knowledge on the subject?

[ZZMS]

Simoni, pls provide quotes from Ross Brawn, MS and other benetton ppl. Flavio Briatore said in 98 that in 94 Benetton had 70hp handicap to Williams. It is awful lot both in qualification and in the race. This fact alone put your alligations into a dust. And do not come up with the crap about huge fuel economy advantage of that Ford - why Benetton was quick and happy to jump to the same Renault engine in 95 then?

[Jecko]

Originally posted by Simioni
Absolutely he wasn't. Nor was Prost as it has been proved time and again, but you take what he says as if it was written in the bible. At least Senna never tried to make up stories to explain why he couldn't keep up with another driver. [/B]

Fine, prove to me he made it up. If there was nothing to the Honda thing then I'm sure you can find someone that will refute the statements made by Prost.

btw I never said Prost was an angel, nor do I take what he says as the bible.

[Cociani]

Cuckoo Bird, I find it strange that you think the rivalry between MS & MH is uninteresting because Mika is to much a gentlmen. I am not a raving fan of Mika but that is one of Mika's qualities I admire. I for one am tired of all this childish behavior we have witnessed from drivers in the past 16 years. Chops, taking out teamates, mind games are all traits I find abhorent. I am not under the illusion that there have never been disputes prior to 1984 but we have seen an escalation of unsportsmanlike behavior in f1 since Senna set his bad example. I do not admire a win at all cost attitude when it mean winning at the cost of sportsmanship. I respect drivers who push to the limits even beyond but who take responsibility for their axcidents and mistakes not drivers who invent alternate realities to justify their competitive greed. Good rivales need not hate each other. I prefer rivalries where the drivers like and respect each other. Moss & Fangio, Villeneauve & Schekter etc.

Cuckoo Bird, I don't wish to offend you personally but I found your comments emblematic of what I think is wrong with F1 today. I would rather the news confrences not show like a weigh in for a prize fight. Thankfully most of the drivers today are in my opinion good sprortsmen and gentlmen. End of sermon.

[Louis Mr. F1]

ok ok

so, what do you guys think of the San Marino 89 incident when Prost claimed that Senna broke the 1st corner promise? do you think Senna did it on purpose?

and after that, we had the Mexican race, which after made the wrong tire choice and had to come in early for new tires, he was lapped by Senna. However, even with new tires, and Prost was absolutely in Senna's slipstream out of the very fast 180 corner, he was unable to pull out to pass and unlap himself. At that time, i thought, what's wrong with you Prost, pass him now, you can't get any closer. Later i learned that Prost stated that his engine wasn't as strong as Senna's, anyone heard of this?

then things quiet down a bit, until Monza when Prost announced that he'd join Ferrari next yr, things turned real bad from then on. Portugal, Prost had to issue an apology to Honda and Mclaren, and then Japan accident. It was a real controversial year.