11 replies to this topic

[David Birchall]

Having mentioned this on the BP thread it then occurred to me that the Alfa 2600 deserves a thread of it's own and since we have a successful racer of one, Nick Savage, maybe we can get some experienced input. I raced a 2600 once and the lasting memory was the sound of the engine at eight grand-and the body roll of course...

[SWB]

As a big Alfa fan even I would have to ask 'did the 2600 ever race, or did it just compete?'

Steve

[RobertE]

In standard form, they are a bit gutless, and those Solex PH44s are rubbish, made from monkey-metal, but my big complaint regards the steering. Four and a half turns lock-to-lock? Silly.

Good looking, though...

[Ray Bell]

If they had been 2500cc or smaller, would someone somewhere have used the engine in a home-built F1 car?

Maybe South Africa?

[David Birchall]

Ray, the engine is physically big-almost the size of an XK engine and weighs 420lb all up-best power I have heard is below 250 bhp. But it sounds glorious doing it!

[llmaurice]

My feelings about the 2600 are mixed .
At Taylor and Crawley in the early '60s we handled a few of them . .A medium front ender would result in the oil pump being damaged , they had the most diabolical electric windows on the planet , however , properly set up that Solex carbs were OK (they were also on the Mercedes 190sl). Door shut was difficult to achieve because of body flex .Typical 2nd gear syncho early failures
The car had the classic Italian ape driving position with tall drivers having to actually crouch down to avoid contact with the headlining on bad roads . Definitely a nice smooth engine and terribly fierce front brakes (possibly over servo'd) Most had the tan upholstery too which stained VERY easily .
None of us really liked the cars when measured aginst the early 105 series Giulietta/Guilia models and as we were Mercedes distributors too the German six cylinder motors were a pleasure to work on compared to the Alfas.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by David Birchall
Ray, the engine is physically big-almost the size of an XK engine and weighs 420lb all up-best power I have heard is below 250 bhp. But it sounds glorious doing it!

All good inline sixes sound magnificent when revved and worked!

Are they not a 6-cyl version of the four? I've never really looked at one, but I always thought they were simply a couple of extra cylinders on the Giulia engine.

[Nick Savage]

David,
Thank you for starting this thread - greatly overdue.

Yes, the Alfa 2600 Sprint coupe has been long under-appreciated and with some rather incomplete sources of data, (below) I hope I can redress the balance slightly.

2600 coupes were Alfa works racers from 1963 to 1965, until superceded by the outstanding success of the 1600cc GTA and the Giulia Super ti saloon. Works drivers included Andrea de Adamich. They had some success in-period in European rallying, in the hands of enthusiastic French drivers in the main.

In the more recent historic competition context, they have made few appearances - Italians raced a pair sporadically in the FIA Historic Touring Car series in 1989 to 1992, and there were two or three participating in Italy-based historic regularity rallies at around the same time. I raced mine from 1995 to 2004 at tracks in the UK, and Spa etc abroad, always driving to and (I hoped) from the track.

In the 1963 to 1967 period I have tracked down the following competition record from several sources, including Frank de Jong's ETCC site and the good offices of Jean-Pierre Magalhaes who sent me copies of 'Les Sports-Moteur' journal from Belgium. Apologies for not including precise dates

Circuit Racing
1963 Nurburgring 12 Hrs, 2nd in over 2.5L class, Rader/Bollmeier

1964 Spa 24 Hrs , 2nd in 2L-3L class, third overall, Galimberti/Facetti
Grand Prix of Spa, 1st in the up-to-3L class
Albi, 1st, 2nd, 3rd in Touring category

1965 Mugello, (6.6.65), 9th OA and 1st -in-class Massimo Bonomi; 12th OA Paolo Bianchi; 22nd, Enzo Torregiano; 27th, Romano Martini, two DNFs.
Monza 4Hrs, ETCC (19.3.65), 3rd 4th, and 6th OA

Rally & Hillclimbs
1963 Coppa Consuma Hillclimb, 2.6.63, 14th OA and first-in-class, Piero Frescobaldi
Freiburg Hillclimb, 11.8.63, 40th, Armin von Freyburg [must have been a local lad ....]
Tour de France, 14/22.9.63, six 2600s DNF (!)

1964 Tour de France, 23rd OA, and 1st, 2L-to-3L class, Guy Clarou
Rally du Routes du Nord, 1st in class
Jolly Club Trophy, 1st overall, Touring class.
Belgian Cup, 1st
Cannes Hillclimb, 1st, Touring class
Coppa Consuma Hillclimb, 33rd (Giancarlo Galimberti),50th (Franco Concari); 57th, Luculla Saelliero

This, I am the first to say, is a list incomplete and if anyone can supplement it, I would be very grateful.

Having said that, a book entitled "The Competition History of the Alfa 2600" would be a pretty slim volume. But it had its place as a works racer and some surprising results. It is said (although I have yet to track down the report) that at a race at Spa or Nurburgring two 2600s had the beating of the Jag Mk2 saloons by several seconds a lap.

The engine is not, I think, the 1900 with two more cylinders : the block and head design is quite different. The engine is heavy, and I surmise that the 250bhp quoted were probably quite emaciated Italian ponies on a local rolling road. Nevertheless, in modern-day terms, 220bhp is more than achievable and a generous torque curve that's more like a plateau . The gearbox is the standard small Alfa 101-series Giulietta box that, while I was racing mine, coped manfully with twice the output.

The Solexes and the siamesed inlet manifold are truly woeful : the factory option Weber 45s with proper inlet tracts markedly improve the whole set-up.

There's a lot more to add, and a mass of Old Wive's Tales to be doused, but in deference to the patience of Forumista, I will sign off,
Any additional info gratefully received,
Yrs
Nick

[llmaurice]

Don't forget that like so many tin top cars these were made for the more affluent bloke who wanted to "be seen" . Most of our customers fell into this category .
For roadholding ,a Giulia Ti or Super would see it off any day and if I remember correctly even Lou Klementaski (one of our favourite Alfa customers ) tuned down the loan of a second hand sales car when his Giulia was in for service.
Back in the early '80s a 2600 Sprint was raced by Roger Monk in the AROC series in Uk and it was a dog with all the Guilia whistling past it . They were ones step away from a saloon car but as such were "quite nice",unlike the big ugly saloon derivative with its twin choke downdraught setup .
Alfa ,like Fiat always had problems with big cars (Alfa 6 , 164) once the old 1900 series had gone .
The one thing Alfa had was SPIRIT up to the early '80s in UK when the Ford mob moved into Edgware Road along with the odd yes man in Service . Then came Fiat !

Edited by llmaurice, 24 December 2010 - 18:12.

[Marticelli]

A good friend of mine acquired one in the 70s which had been owned from new by well known Scottish singer and petrolhead, Kenneth McKellar (you may recall the two Ronnies doing a skit on him and Moira Anderson as 'Kenneth Anderson and Moira McKellar'!!). McKellar did some club events I think but was outclassed.

Most memorable feature I recall from several trips as a passenger was the car suffered from an odd problem which was that the door hinges were insufficient for the weight and size they had to carry, so they dropped, making getting into and out of the car a bit of a nightmare. Lovely engine note though and generally dripping class. The partly restored car was sold only a few years ago when my friend died, but where it is now is anyone's guess. West of Scotland somewhere probably...

Marticelli

[David Birchall]

I think one of the biggest problems with the 2600 Alfas was the far forward placement of the engine-as Nick Savage mentioned. Half of the engine is hanging in front of the front wheels! This is a problem that Alfa also saddled the Montreal with. The V8 engine of the Montreal-which is surprisingly heavy-is so far forward in the chassis that the gearbox has a huge extension for the gear shift assembly. Given Alfas great history in motor sport one would have thought they would have avoided this problem. Another case of committee design?

[David Birchall]

This sort of sums it up really, you get an idea of the wonderful sound and the bloody awful handling: