24 replies to this topic

[Andrew Ford &F1]

About a week ago I downloaded the 27th issue of P1 Magazine (available at p1mag.de), in which the Nurburgring issues together with its debt of 0.5 billion Euros were ranked among the top-ten flops of 2010... Could anyone please elaborate on that, depicting the nature of the problems as well as the implications they may cause in the future.

[phil1993]

The problems for Hockenheim & Nurburgring have been ongoing for years. I think that was why from 2007 they dropped one from the calendar every year. Schumi's return & Vettel's rise should help them a bit.

[Ross Stonefeld]

How the hell did they get to 400-500million in debt? Even with high FOM fees it should only be 40-50?

[Andrew Ford &F1]

How the hell did they get to 400-500million in debt? Even with high FOM fees it should only be 40-50?

Well, I don't know, I live in Ukraine, which is some distance away. Therefore, I was hoping that some of our German colleagues might shed some light on this problem. It seems that the directors took some large loans that they haven't repaid.

[Kucki]

Hockenheim has financial problems since they changed the track.

Nürburgring has huge financial problems because it got terribly mismanaged, they tried to add a huge theme park, shopping centre, etc to the track, found out the investors for that project werent legit, now they got a half finished theme park, which doesnt really work, huge debt, and to top it off hardly any visitors. They digged there own grave.

[Rob]

How the hell did they get to 400-500million in debt? Even with high FOM fees it should only be 40-50?

I imagine that adding the new section at the beginning of the lap was quite costly. Even so, that's still a lot of debt.

[Andrew Ford &F1]

Hockenheim has financial problems since they changed the track.

Nürburgring has huge financial problems because it got terribly mismanaged, they tried to add a huge theme park, shopping centre, etc to the track, found out the investors for that project werent legit, now they got a half finished theme park, which doesnt really work, huge debt, and to top it off hardly any visitors. They digged there own grave.

Yes, I read something about it... I wonder what will happen next. Hopefully, it won't be the end of the famous Nordschleife...

[Kucki]

How the hell did they get to 400-500million in debt? Even with high FOM fees it should only be 40-50?

Corrupt and completely incompetent managers of the Nürburgring. In order to generate more money for the facility, they wanted to build a huge theme park, business facilities, shopping mals, etc. to the track. They trusted foreign investors without double checking them to fund the project. The bulldozers got underway and as the huge (by the residents and people at the Ring seen as useless) project started. After some time they realised the investors are not for real and they wont get any money at all. Alot of money escaped, got mismanaged or just "disappeared". Dark times for the Nürburgring.

TV Report about the Financial Desaster at the Ring (German)

[KateLM]

Oh yeah, I vaguely remember the rollercoaster was meant to open at the 2009 race now. Though looking at Wikipedia, thats been an absolute disaster - http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Ring°racer

Does the Nurburgring still host Rock am Ring? I don't know how licensing for music festivals work, but I wonder if that makes or loses them money.

[selespeed]

[Andrew Ford &F1]

I know that the Nuburgring has been mismanaged for a number of years and some of the projects initiated by the inapt management were far from necessary. But what really bothers me is the fate of the Green Hell. What do you think will happen with the world's most challenging circuit?

[Dolph]

Don't worry. If the organisation goes bust the assets will be sold to a new company and they will start again. Nobody will dismantle the damn thing

[WhiteBlue]

The story of the Nürburgring 2009 investment is pretty simple. The ring had small deficits from its F1 promotion and was looking for a concept to increase revenues by attracting more visitors. The management came up with a plan to build a party, congress, shopping and theme park center around the center attraction of the historical Nordschleife race track. The initial investment was calculated at €150m. The managing director of the publicly owned operating company promised the politicians that the money would come from private investors and he got them to actually kick of the project without any commitment of private funding.

It turned out that the project took €330m to complete to a stage that the shopping mall, the historic exhibition, the hotels and party places could start business. The state of Rheinland-Pfalz totally funded the project from tax payers money. The former MD was kicked out and the state's finance minister who was responsible for the disaster resigned.

The scandal continues because now the business is run by a man who was involved with the project for a long time and took a lot of money during the building phase. The tourism figures they expected are not materializing and one has to assume that the new facilities continue to run a deficit instead of paying back the investment. The new management is supposed to pay a rent of €15m annually on an investment of €330m. They are not likely to be able to do so. The whole story obviously pisses off the traditional tourist and hotel businesses who will have to compete with massive over capacities payed by tax payers money in the future. The roller coaster is still not working and probably never will. The question is how this is supposed to work out in the future.

The scandal is now investigated by an enquire commission of the state's parliament. IMO they should write off the losses and fire everybody who had something to do with the project. They should invite all established tourism businesses of the Nürburgring to join with small investments and take significant share of ownership in return. That way the new facilities could find proper usage eventually without destroying the local economy. The local investors should select a management of their trust to run the public company.

[Hairpin]

Corrupt and completely incompetent managers of the Nürburgring. Alot of money escaped, got mismanaged or just "disappeared".

Standard scam nowadays. Not a result of mismanagement at all, it is the result of rather carefully executed plans.

[Hairpin]

Oh yeah, I vaguely remember the rollercoaster was meant to open at the 2009 race now. Though looking at Wikipedia, thats been an absolute disaster - http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Ring°racer

Does the Nurburgring still host Rock am Ring? I don't know how licensing for music festivals work, but I wonder if that makes or loses them money.

Jeez...

It was manufactured by S&S Power and features a pneumatic launch. This will accelerate the coaster from 0-135 mph (0-217 km/h) in 2.5 seconds, double the acceleration of a Formula 1 driver in the same space of time.

Sounds like a recipe for disaster.

[arknor]

Jeez...

Sounds like a recipe for disaster.

whats thre acceleration on the ferrari coaster?

[Hairpin]

whats thre acceleration on the ferrari coaster?

Approx half of that, supposed to be similar to an F1.

[nomeg1]

It would for sure be a shame to loose that one !
Look at one lap in 1967 : On board Nurburg 1967

Check out the car's suspensions !

Edited by nomeg1, 29 December 2010 - 19:02.

[JLS]

Did`t know it was Nurburgring

[nomeg1]

Did`t know it was Nurburgring

The old long track JLS, the one for those with big ones, really ! The one where Lauda almost died.

[midgrid]

Jeez...

Sounds like a recipe for disaster.

Alonso definitely won't be going on that one...

[JLS]

The old long track JLS, the one for those with big ones, really ! The one where Lauda almost died.

That`s why i would`t call present one like that. sorry

Edited by JLS, 30 December 2010 - 22:31.

[CSquared]

Nürburgring has huge financial problems because it got terribly mismanaged, they tried to add a huge theme park, shopping centre, etc to the track,

Makes you wonder what they were thinking, since it's a pretty remote place (relatively for a densely-populated place like Germany).

Standard scam nowadays. Not a result of mismanagement at all, it is the result of rather carefully executed plans.

Oh, so that's what they were thinking.

Yes, I read something about it... I wonder what will happen next. Hopefully, it won't be the end of the famous Nordschleife...

"Surely no one would be evil enough to damage the Nordschleife," he said uneasily.

[BullHead]

It's not the Nordschleife that is in danger. AFAIK that is protected by German government heritage funding. Nurburgring is the issue, and worst case scenario, it can't be totally ripped up or left to rot because of the small link it still has with the old track. As others have said, it may go into adminstration and someone will have do something with it, even if we do never see it in F1 again.

[Hairpin]

So debt is half a billion now? Serves them right! Greedy bastards.

I'm afraid the greedy bastards got what they wanted.