462 replies to this topic

[Risil]

"One day, I'm not going to be there and one of the biggest problems is I've got really, really good relationships with the race promoters. A few of them said to me, 'if you're not there, we're not there'. That's what the danger is."

Presumably the scandal causing Bernie to leave would allow a couple of races to get out of their contracts early... Korea springs to mind.

Edited by Risil, 11 January 2013 - 20:33.

[Craigster]

Good spot (I think ) ... but it does not really matter - as Learned Hand said "The life of the law has not been logic, it has been experience" ... or put another way: they make it up as they go along ...

Agreed but that doesn't change the fact that both cases can't be valid. I guess none of the reporters can understand this case otherwise they would surely have pointed out the contradiction. Ecclestone is laughing all the way to the bank once again!

[MustangSally]

What I dont understand is why what is left of EM TV's interest is suing but what is left of Kirch's interest is(?) holding back...

Is this yet another stalking horse?

Only guessing here. The former had a contract/agreement, but the latter's case is more vague . . . presumably the bank could dispose of the shares as they saw fit.

About stalking horses, could the German prosecutor - also holding back it seems - be waiting for the commercial cases to provide more evidence against Ecclestone? It would save a lot of time and public funds.

[TriumphST]

It is very hard to be prosecuted for any white collar crime in this country ... someone in BE's position would probably have to make a public confession before he was even prosecuted, much less convicted.

The Guinness and the Polly Peck cases spring to mind. But a civil case won't lead to incarceration nor will it influence any criminal proceedings..... However Ecclestone won't want a decision to go against him and as F1ultimate put's it, a towel of cash will be thrown in to end it prematurely. I'm unsure if Ecclestone has actually seen a case he was involved actually go the distance without capitulating prior to judgement?

And of course the view that the Munich court got it catastrophically wrong finding Gribkowsky (and Ecclestone by implication) guilty of corruption is disingenuous given the length of the investigation and court proceeding's which convinced the court that Gribkowsky accepted almost $50m from Ecclestone to sell BayernLB's holding in F1 to CVC.

That somehow it's the case that HMRC's investigation could in some machiavellian manner disprove the bribery allegations simply because tax irregularities exist in Ecclestone's affairs. One would be amazed if they didn't exist but their investigation centres on how Ecclestone's Bambino Trust functions and whether Ecclestone is exercising control of it's affairs (knowledge of which may have led Stephen Mullens to abandon ship before being tainted by it)?
HMRC are cognisant of how Bambino were complicit in the payments to Gribkowsky which were orchestrated by Ecclestone in a manner intended to prevent traceability and any evidence Ecclestone could be breaching Trust law.

Personally I don't think Ecclestone (if still alive) will be contesting any October 2013 High Court date, he'll be too busy in Munich. As I said before, this is Ecclestone's perfect storm and everyone's getting in on the act. Constantin, Kirch, BayernLB with Morgan's and Lehman's waiting in the wings never mind the Munich Prosecutor or HMRC.

Edited by TriumphST, 15 January 2013 - 19:28.

[MustangSally]

. . .the Polly Peck cases spring to mind.

Well, there you go. Northern Cyprus is just one place BE could relocate to.

Looking forward to the Nicosia grand prix.

[Risil]

Well, there you go. Northern Cyprus is just one place BE could relocate to.

Looking forward to the Nicosia grand prix.

Lefkosia, surely?

[Sakae]

Once Ecclestone retires his position, I wonder whether LdM would be interested adding this job to his other duties? Initially I thought there should be a neutral commissioner in charge, however F1 seems to reach cross roads, and a change of direction could be what a doctor prescribed. LdM rhetoric’s do suggest that he has vision how to, and from occasional headlines I am interested to hear more from him. Irrespective of the legal case in Germany, perhaps Ecclestone's age as a factor could be an issue that is more pressing than his dealing-wheeling behind the scene.

Edited by Sakae, 16 January 2013 - 08:36.

[Tommorris747]

Once Ecclestone retires his position, I wonder whether LdM would be interested adding this job to his other duties? Initially I thought there should be a neutral commissioner in charge, however F1 seems to reach cross roads, and a change of direction could be what a doctor prescribed. LdM rhetoric’s do suggest that he has vision how to, and from occasional headlines I am interested to hear more from him. Irrespective of the legal case in Germany, perhaps Ecclestone's age as a factor could be an issue that is more pressing than his dealing-wheeling behind the scene.

Love the way that Gribowsky lined his own pocket with 50 million but the bank he was advising missed out on 500 million. No wonder they are pi**sed
http://www.cityam.co...-over-f1-shares

[BRG]

Irrespective of the legal case in Germany, perhaps Ecclestone's age as a factor could be an issue that is more pressing than his dealing-wheeling behind the scene.

Perhaps Bernie should take the example of the Queen of the Netherlands, and of course, the Pope, and retire gracefully. Probably to somewhere with no extradition treaty....

Or more likely, he is now trying to get elected as the new Pope. Vatican GP anybody?

[Gareth]

Love the way that Gribowsky lined his own pocket with 50 million but the bank he was advising missed out on 500 million. No wonder they are pi**sed
http://www.cityam.co...-over-f1-shares

The article inflates the value of Bayern's hypothetical holding by £120m by going on Enterprise Value rather than Equity Value (the calculation of Enterprise Value may also be incorrect, if the group has any cash (which I'd guess it does), but that's by the by given Enterprise Value is not the right metric). So the actual figure should be £380m.

He's also not adjusted for the weighted average cost of capital to arrive at an appropriate net present value of the £380m - ie the true profit is not the £380m, but the £380m less what could have been made over the 7 years by investing the £63.3m in "safe" investments.

Also, it assumes that there would have been a market for those shares. Whilst 28% has been sold to date, could Bayern have forced it's 10% to go within that 28% (possibly reducing the realisation of investment by other shareholders). Which would have depended on the terms of the shareholder agreement put in place. The original offer appeared to be on the same terms as Bambino - have they realised any shares yet?

[Tommorris747]

The article inflates the value of Bayern's hypothetical holding by £120m by going on Enterprise Value rather than Equity Value (the calculation of Enterprise Value may also be incorrect, if the group has any cash (which I'd guess it does), but that's by the by given Enterprise Value is not the right metric). So the actual figure should be £380m.

Something tells me they won't be any less pi**ed! Whatever calculation is used to work out the value of the 'stake they never had' BayernlB lost out on hundreds of millions and the man who was negotiating the deal for them trousered 50 million. You gotta laugh!

[TriumphST]

YES.......

[Buttoneer]

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