51 replies to this topic

[Paul Rochdale]

A couple of years ago I corresponded with Bob Anderson's son but have since lost track of his email address. I've since received the following interesting email.

"I was very pleased to hear of Bob having a son, it was news to me! Thanks also for the forum address, I will give it a go, even though I find forums a bit unreliable at times!
For your information, and to my knowledge, the last motorcycle GrandPrix Bob Anderson contested was the final round of the world championship of 1960, the "Italian G.P" at Monza, Italy, held in September 1960 (11th~12th I think).
As you will see from the attached scan of "Motorcycling" 15th September 1960, Bob finished a hard fought 5th in the 350 class(action photo no. 8) and had a DNF in the 500cc class after holding 6th place at one time.
As it was only early September and the racing season continued until October, perhaps he had later success at another venue. I will continue to research and keep you posted! If you find any more details of Bob's son, I would be gratefull if you could pass it on!
Finally, I would like to confide in you that my special interest in Bob is because I own the 350cc Norton, that Bob rode from 1958 to 1960. I bought it in 1972, totally ignorant of it's history and only recently began to successfully research it's C.V. Naturally, I am very proud that the bike has had such an illustrious career in the hands of Bob Anderson! Many thanks and best regards, Richard"

I've tried searching on TNF for further details of Bob's wife and son but as there are pages and pages to scroll through, I gave up trying.

[GD66]

Bob also rode as a stand-in for Yamaha in 1966, finishing 5th in the 250 Dutch TT, one lap down, on the V4 .

Edited by GD66, 06 January 2011 - 10:02.

[Paul Rochdale]

Bob also rode as a stand-in for Yamaha in 1966, finishing 5th in the 250 Dutch TT, one lap down, on the V4 .

http://www.classicya...a f1-rider.html

[GD66]

Nice one, Paul. Looks like that'd be Bob's wife and son in the pic with Phil and Bill.

[Continental Circus]

Nice one, Paul. Looks like that'd be Bob's wife and son in the pic with Phil and Bill.

Hi Paul,
Bob was a true pro, always turned out with immaculate bikes and was a world class racer.
He was another true loss to our sport when he died.
I followed him all over the country to see him ride.
So is this your bike in the Island in 1960.
Roy

[Bjorn Kjer]

If you search on the main TNF you will find a good deal on Andersons MC riding.

[Arthur]

I think Bobs 350cc manx was purchased by John Riches from Monty and Ward Twickenham in around 1963. I knew John and he told me his manx was ex Bob Anderson

[peterd]

http://www.classicya...a f1-rider.html


And the writer is now, of course, Sir Robin Miller.

[philippe7]

Absolutely fascinating story on Classic Yams, I must confess I hardly knew anything at all about Bob Anderson. Of course this was a few years before I started following racing "in period" in the magazines, but still I felt that over years of reading I had gotten to know about the glorious 60's of Ivy, Hailwood, Duff, Redman etc....but the name Bob Anderson really does seem to have been wiped from mainstream motorcycle racing history ( outside, perhaps, of the UK )

Edited by philippe7, 07 January 2011 - 21:24.

[billbomann]

Could this be your bike?

I wonder if he rode the same bike fitted with a Senior engine as well. I have quite a few shots of Bob from the 1958-60 TTs

[Paul Rochdale]

Could this be your bike?

I wonder if he rode the same bike fitted with a Senior engine as well. I have quite a few shots of Bob from the 1958-60 TTs

I should mention that the 350 Manx is not my bike but owned by someone who has contacted me. I have mentioned this forum to him and he was impressed when he visited it. I hope he will return and tell us more of his story.

[richard100n]

Hi Paul,
Bob was a true pro, always turned out with immaculate bikes and was a world class racer.
He was another true loss to our sport when he died.
I followed him all over the country to see him ride.
So is this your bike in the Island in 1960.
Roy

Hi Roy! I'm going to confess to being the owner of the bike being ridden by Bob Anderson Anderson in the 1960 350TT. I have looked at the TT results for 1960 in a copy of "Motorcycling " dated 23rd June. Bob finished 6th and indeed his riding number was No.6. that year in the 350cc class. He rode No.2 in the 500cc class and finished 8th at 96.15 mph, fastest lap 23min.06secs. There is a good picture of Bob dicing it out with the Australian, Bob Brown. Interestingly the only shot of Bob in the 350cc class shows him( incorrectly captioned as being on an AJS) sat up and stretching an arm backwards, apparently to relieve cramp!
As I am very much a beginner on forum postings, can anyone tell me the score on copywrite, concerning magazines articles and photos, such as the one mentioned above? Is there some rule about copywrite lasting 50years? More on this in the posting concerning Monty and Ward. Regards Richard.

[richard100n]

I think Bobs 350cc manx was purchased by John Riches from Monty and Ward Twickenham in around 1963. I knew John and he told me his manx was ex Bob Anderson

Hello Arthur, thanks for your input on this, I am the owner of the bike in question, i.e. Bob Andersons 1958 350cc Norton. I have been trying to trace the history of the bike for years and until about 5 years ago, only knew that it had been supplied by Norton to "Blay's of Twickenham". As Blay's still have their sales records, it transpired that the bike had been supplied new to "Monty and Ward" in late June 1958 along with a brand new 500cc. Manx. Geoff Monty informed me that both the bikes were for Bob Anderson who rode with Geoff, as part of Geoff's race team at that time. As they were paid for by Bob, (who must have had some cash!) Bob retained the bikes when he left the team in 1959 and Geoff went AJS for his new riders, I think, Tommy Robb and Ron Langston.
Now for the bit I am totally lost on, what happened to the 350cc bike when Bob Anderson retired (I believe at the end of 1960) and 1971, when I became aware of it in the UK. Who actually bought it, when and where from? Monty and Ward would seem a likely guess, as Bob remained a good friend of Geoff Monty. Unfortunately Geoff Monty couldn't help on that. Perhaps John Riches could help if he is still about? Bob did have a previous 350 Manx, but it was an earlier "oldam-coupling" model. Apparently, that is now owned by someone in the north-East of England.
What I do know, however, is that the bike has spent some time in Germany during the sixties. I have a Ray Petty worksheet from 1968, addressed to a German racer, Klaus Wiessmann, from Giessen in West Germany. I have made contact, but the trail has gone cold and the guy's brother informs me that neither he nor his brother ever owned a 350cc Manx. I think that perhaps it may have been a friends bike and he may have been the contact person, driver or suchlike. Perhaps our German friends have something to offer on this??? Any info greatly appreciated! Regards, Richard

[Russell Burrows]

Fascinating stuff, Richard. There's another of Roy's photos of Bob on here, this time from the paddock at Mallory and I think this too includes a Manx. Unfortunately, I can't now find it. I wonder if putting the numbers (presumably matching?) out here in the forum/bloggersphere would be worth a punt?

[Rennmax]

This one ?

[Russell Burrows]

The very one, Renn. Thanks.

[Rennmax]

What I do know, however, is that the bike has spent some time in Germany during the sixties. I have a Ray Petty worksheet from 1968, addressed to a German racer, Klaus Wiessmann, from Giessen in West Germany. I have made contact, but the trail has gone cold and the guy's brother informs me that neither he nor his brother ever owned a 350cc Manx. I think that perhaps it may have been a friends bike and he may have been the contact person, driver or suchlike. Perhaps our German friends have something to offer on this??? Any info greatly appreciated! Regards, Richard

Hi Richard, I wonder if you can provide the serial numbers as suggested by Russ or any other helpful details. The name Klaus Wiessman doesn't ring a bell, but I would like to try my luck on this issue over here in Germany.
Cheers

Edited by Rennmax, 11 January 2011 - 15:32.

[HEMEYLA]

TT Assen 1960 350cc: 7.Bob Anderson - 15.Jim Redman - 19.Paddy Driver - all on Norton

Edited by HEMEYLA, 11 January 2011 - 17:38.

[Russell Burrows]

This one ?

After engaging brain I see that this is actually a 7R/G50

[HEMEYLA]

TT Assen 1959 350cc:

no.24 Gary Hocking
no. 2 Bob Brown
no. 1 Bob Anderson
no. 7 Frank Perris
no.25 Jim Redman
no. 5 Mike Hailwood
no.23 Paddy Driver
no.22 Tom Phillis
no.16 John Hempleman

All on Norton.

Edited by HEMEYLA, 11 January 2011 - 20:33.

[HEMEYLA]

TT Assen 1959 500cc:

no.1 John Surtees, MV-Agusta
no.3 Remo Venturi, MV-Agusta
no.4 Bob Anderson, Norton
no.23 Paddy Driver, Norton
no.24 Gary Hocking, Norton
no.5 Bob Brown, Norton
no.8 Peter Ferbranche, Matchless
no.28 Anton Elbersen, BMW
no.14 H. Jäger, BMW
no.12 Geoffry B. Tanner, Norton
no.27 Raymond Bogaerdt, Norton
no.21 Ron Miles, Norton
no.16 John Hempleman, Norton

Edited by HEMEYLA, 12 January 2011 - 18:27.

[Russell Burrows]

Thanks Ton, he said, wistfully recalling a time when WWWW's were de rigueur

[GD66]

There's still a few left if you're feeling fit, Russell...

Re Bob Anderson, I have this nagging feeling that I read many years ago that Bob was something of an outsider...that he'd had either a university or public school background which didn't sit too well with some of the knockabout bike racers of the time, and then when he moved to car racing he wasn't universally accepted, because of his background in bike racing....

Can anyone confirm this, or am I gibbering again ?

[fil2.8]

There's still a few left if you're feeling fit, Russell...

Re Bob Anderson, I have this nagging feeling that I read many years ago that Bob was something of an outsider...that he'd had either a university or public school background which didn't sit too well with some of the knockabout bike racers of the time, and then when he moved to car racing he wasn't universally accepted, because of his background in bike racing....

Can anyone confirm this, or am I gibbering again ?

Don't think your'e to far out , IIRC , Glenn

[richard100n]

Hi Richard, I wonder if you can provide the serial numbers as suggested by Russ or any other helpful details. The name Klaus Wiessman doesn't ring a bell, but I would like to try my luck on this issue over here in Germany.
Cheers

Hello Rennmax, thanks for your input into what I have called my "Wiessmann Quest" over the years! Although I can obviously provide serial numbers to confirm any claims of previous ownership, I think that it would be a mistake at the moment and may cause an " I am Sparticus " re-action. At the moment I would prefer to try and find the German link from the Klaus Wiessmann / Ray Petty connection of 1968.
If somebody knew the Wiessmann brothers and owned a 1958 350 Norton, between 1961 and 1970, it could be the one!
Some more key Wiessmann facts:
1) Klauss Wiessmann lived in Giessen West Germany and raced lightweight two-strokes, in the early sixties.
2) His brother Rolfe, also rode lightweight two-strokes and was also a GP sidecar passenger on a BMW outfit (see web-site : tribute to Solitude 1964 ).
3) I am led to believe that Rolfe also became a senior technical official for the German Road-race Committee.
4) The name Wiessmann has been stamped on the Head, Cylinder Barrel and Cam-box of my 350cc Manx (I think possibly by Ray Petty -??? -when he serviced / developed the engine in England in 1968).
5) The engine number quoted on Ray Petty's worksheet and addressed to K. Wiessman of Giessen, is the engine number of my Manx. The address on the worksheet / invoice is the Wiessmann family address of that time(Confirmed by Rolfe Wissmann)
6) According to the worksheet, the engine had been fitted with a Bosch magneto by that time, this would also seem to point to a German connection.
7)Both Klaus and Rolfe were founder members of the AMC Rodheim Club, through which I made aquaintance with Rolfe by E-mail, several years ago.
8)Rolfe informed me that he(Rolfe) and his brother, Klaus, had never owned a 350cc Norton. I have never been able to make contact with Klaus(who may be quite old now!) despite sending several letters and information to his current address.

If anyone has even a vague recollection of these people and their friends in that era and recollections of such a bike then I could reveal other mod's / details to confirm authenticity. Many thanks in advance Rennmax! Regards, Richard

[Russell Burrows]

TT Assen 1959 500cc:

no.1 John Surtees, MV-Agusta
no.3 Remo Venturi, MV-Agusta
no.4 Bob Anderson, Norton
no.23 Paddy Driver, Norton
no.24 Gary Hocking, Norton
no.8 Peter Ferbranche, Matchless
no.28 Anton Elbersen, BMW
no.14 H. Jäger, BMW
no.12 Geoffry B. Tanner, Norton
no.27 Raymond Bogaerdt, Norton
no.21 Ron Miles, Norton
no.16 John Hempleman, Norton

Is Dickie Dale number 6? Curiously, some riders have been given different numbers for 350/500races. Peter Ferbrache is 4 in the 350?

[richard100n]

After engaging brain I see that this is actually a 7R/G50

Hello Russell! Yes, this does appear to be a bit of a puzzle! Norton stalwart Bob Anderson on 7R /G50 at Mallory! However, I have recently been trawling some old "Motorcycle" magazines and I came across the race report of the Mallory Park "Race of the Year" , September 1960. This was a 40 lap race with a £1000 (yes £1000!) first prize up for grabs. In the race report Bob Anderson was credited with riding a Matchless 500. Bob led the race for 15 laps until falling back through the finishing order. The race was won by a very young Mike Hailwood on his Norton, from a "slow starting" Terry Shepherd, who was riding with a front fork and Gilera front brake borrowed from Bob McIntyre (maybe terryshep can give us his take on all of this??). Anyway, back to our little puzzle! In the accompanying grainy, little, action shot of the race Hartle is in the lead, followed by Hailwood, Alan Shepherd, Bob Anderson and Paddy Driver. The Matchless ridden by Bob Anderson has a white fairing and is No.12.as in Rennmax photograph!
Now we know where and when Bob was riding the Matchless, in what seems to be his final meeting before switching to cars, who did the(borrowed?) Matchless belong to?? What had happened to his trusty Nortons? Had he sold them already? Perhaps at Monza? Speculation, but does anybody know for certain? Richard.

[Rennmax]

.....Matchless ridden by Bob Anderson has a white fairing and is No.12.as in Rennmax photograph!

...just for the sake of correctness, the original pic was provided by our member 'Continental Circus' as far as I recall, I just put a copy of it in this thread

Edited by Rennmax, 17 January 2011 - 12:54.

[terryshep]

There's still a few left if you're feeling fit, Russell...

Re Bob Anderson, I have this nagging feeling that I read many years ago that Bob was something of an outsider...that he'd had either a university or public school background which didn't sit too well with some of the knockabout bike racers of the time, and then when he moved to car racing he wasn't universally accepted, because of his background in bike racing....

Can anyone confirm this, or am I gibbering again ?

Glenn, just to keep the record straight, since Bob was a good racing friend. He arrived in the paddock at Mallory in May 1956 with a new 500 Manx, straight from winning the NW200 and with a bit of an attitude. Yes, he was public school but that wasn't a problem, he unfortunately said what he thought, right out and if he thought he could beat you, he said so. As he thought he could beat everyone, he raised a few hackles. As it turned out, fortunately he didn't beat everyone, though he was a very good rider and he soon fitted in well enough, though he had to take a fair bit of stick over his early claims.

I have the pleasantest memories of him, he was very kind to me when I fell off Ian Telfer's 250 Norton at Silverstone when the rear brake torque arm came off. Bob insisted I come home with him - he lived in Haynes - where his mother, who was an orthopaedic consultant, quickly decided a hot bath, a good meal and application of some foul liniment was called for and packed me off to bed. I was recovered enough to ride the following day in all three races, all 50 milers, so her laying on of hands worked. Bit embarrassing (I was young!), but needs must.

You are probably right about the car situation but that was something he dealt with. His death is what really sticks in the craw. I have little doubt that he would have survived in today's world, where even in testing the circuits are staffed by medical personnel with modern facilities. If you had an accident at Silverstone in 1967, it was an ambulance 16 miles through traffic to Northampton for treatment. Enough said, we can't put the clock back.

[GD66]

Gosh, thanks Terry. I would have read that about Bob once in a car mag in 1966 or so. Must say I thought he used to punch above his weight in the car racing, and the distictive blue of his Brabham was easy to spot in pics from those days.

Must say I'd like to know more about how he came to get the ride on the V4 Yamaha as well, I suspect it was due to Phil Read respecting his skills from when they used to have at it on the bangers. Your insights are very welcome and most enjoyable, Terry, thanks for sharing with us.

[Russell Burrows]

Hello Russell! Yes, this does appear to be a bit of a puzzle! Norton stalwart Bob Anderson on 7R /G50 at Mallory! However, I have recently been trawling some old "Motorcycle" magazines and I came across the race report of the Mallory Park "Race of the Year" , September 1960. This was a 40 lap race with a £1000 (yes £1000!) first prize up for grabs. In the race report Bob Anderson was credited with riding a Matchless 500. Bob led the race for 15 laps until falling back through the finishing order. The race was won by a very young Mike Hailwood on his Norton, from a "slow starting" Terry Shepherd, who was riding with a front fork and Gilera front brake borrowed from Bob McIntyre (maybe terryshep can give us his take on all of this??). Anyway, back to our little puzzle! In the accompanying grainy, little, action shot of the race Hartle is in the lead, followed by Hailwood, Alan Shepherd, Bob Anderson and Paddy Driver. The Matchless ridden by Bob Anderson has a white fairing and is No.12.as in Rennmax photograph!
Now we know where and when Bob was riding the Matchless, in what seems to be his final meeting before switching to cars, who did the(borrowed?) Matchless belong to?? What had happened to his trusty Nortons? Had he sold them already? Perhaps at Monza? Speculation, but does anybody know for certain? Richard.

Hi Richard, I wonder if the G50 was Geoff Monty's ? Didn't someone recently reminded us of some sort of connection with Monty and Ward? There's also speculation on the link below around the origin of the DW part of Bob's car racing team name; as you know, Geoff's partner, Dudley - Ward, was a famous engine fettler. Also, floating about there on the interweb thingy is a photograph of, I think, Ron Langston, on a G50 with the same distinctive fairing. Again as you know, Ron was one of Geofff's pilots around 1960 ish.
http://forums.autosp...php/t63806.html

Whoops, I see that it was you who wrote about the Monty link

Edited by Russell Burrows, 18 January 2011 - 10:17.

[terryshep]

Hello Russell! Yes, this does appear to be a bit of a puzzle! Norton stalwart Bob Anderson on 7R /G50 at Mallory! However, I have recently been trawling some old "Motorcycle" magazines and I came across the race report of the Mallory Park "Race of the Year" , September 1960. This was a 40 lap race with a £1000 (yes £1000!) first prize up for grabs. In the race report Bob Anderson was credited with riding a Matchless 500. Bob led the race for 15 laps until falling back through the finishing order. The race was won by a very young Mike Hailwood on his Norton, from a "slow starting" Terry Shepherd, who was riding with a front fork and Gilera front brake borrowed from Bob McIntyre (maybe terryshep can give us his take on all of this??). Anyway, back to our little puzzle! In the accompanying grainy, little, action shot of the race Hartle is in the lead, followed by Hailwood, Alan Shepherd, Bob Anderson and Paddy Driver. The Matchless ridden by Bob Anderson has a white fairing and is No.12.as in Rennmax photograph!
Now we know where and when Bob was riding the Matchless, in what seems to be his final meeting before switching to cars, who did the(borrowed?) Matchless belong to?? What had happened to his trusty Nortons? Had he sold them already? Perhaps at Monza? Speculation, but does anybody know for certain? Richard.

I think the Matchless & 7R were Geoff Monty's. Bob may well have sold his Nortons, because he was thinking of cars by then but I doubt very much he sold them at Monza: if you knew the aggro we had to go through to take a motor vehicle across a border back then, with carnets to be stamped into the country and out, bank guarantees for the bikes, often having to get them out of the van to show the officials, you wouldn't suggest it!

I've written about that race elsewhere on TNF but a brief re-cap is that I carelessly dropped the Beart 500 in practice clutching it out of the hairpin and twisted the front end, wiped the footrest and gearchange and flattened the megaphone. We were saved by Bob Mac, who pushed his 350 over, said he wasn't bothered about riding it and take what we needed off it. We pinched the whole front end, footrest, etc, cut the mega open and more or less re-shaped it & one of the sidecar blokes welded it for me. The 'slow starting' was due to me starting at the back of the field and doing a gentle lap to see if it was bent or not. I ultimately led the race for 20 laps until, on the the 36th, the footrest loosened enough to turn over and started digging into the ground on Gerard's. Races like that are the best fun you can have in daylight!

[GD66]

Good stuff ! Again, the memory suggests that having read A Single Purpose some years back, I feel Francis Beart, like Bob Mac, may have got his hands on a Gilera front brake, perhaps from the time Cromie McCandless rode for them....

If so, could you give us the gen Terry, on what made the Gilera brake so much better than the Norton stopper of the time ?

[terryshep]

Good stuff ! Again, the memory suggests that having read A Single Purpose some years back, I feel Francis Beart, like Bob Mac, may have got his hands on a Gilera front brake, perhaps from the time Cromie McCandless rode for them....

If so, could you give us the gen Terry, on what made the Gilera brake so much better than the Norton stopper of the time ?

The short answer, Glenn, is that it wasn't! It definitely looked the part and because an awful lot of people really don't get the best out of their brakes, they are always looking for something different. How, otherwise, could you outbrake people? It was a very good stopper but I never had any problem with the Norton. The Norton, like any 2LS brake, had quite a few moving parts and clevis pins and a cable, all points which created friction and minimising this as much as possible made a surprising difference. I always used to emery the cams and polish their spindles and could stop the front wheel approaching Lodge at Oulton and similar corners. I never felt the need of anything better.

We used Bob's Gilera wheel because we were in a hurry and taking the whole front end was the quickest answer. I think you have an answer to your question in the fact that Bob was using it in his 350, not the 500, so he probably felt the same as me about it.

[Paul Rochdale]

Geoff Duke apparently had problems being accepted in the racing sportscar world and quickly, I think, returned to bikes. I wonder of Mike Hailwood and other bike racers also had problems when they made the transition?

[joepotts7]

Good stuff ! Again, the memory suggests that having read A Single Purpose some years back, I feel Francis Beart, like Bob Mac, may have got his hands on a Gilera front brake, perhaps from the time Cromie McCandless rode for them....

If so, could you give us the gen Terry, on what made the Gilera brake so much better than the Norton stopper of the time ?

Francis Beart got the Gilera brakes off Joe Potts. Bob Mac got the Gilera 4ls front brakes and rear brakes from the 125cc twin at the end of the 1957 season.

Ben

[terryshep]

Geoff Duke apparently had problems being accepted in the racing sportscar world and quickly, I think, returned to bikes. I wonder of Mike Hailwood and other bike racers also had problems when they made the transition?

Mike was too nice a bloke to be cold-shouldered for long and don't forget his life-saving heroism, rescuing another driver from a crash. John Surtees did alright too, I seem to recall, he made them accept him. They were perfectly pleasant to me and I was well down the chain. I'm sure there were other reasons for Geoff's moves, they would have respected him greatly as a racer. I found the top drivers dead keen on bike racing and followed it closely.

[GD66]

Thanks, both of you....Gotta love TNF !!

[richard100n]

Hi Richard, I wonder if you can provide the serial numbers as suggested by Russ or any other helpful details. The name Klaus Wiessman doesn't ring a bell, but I would like to try my luck on this issue over here in Germany.
Cheers

Hello Renmax! As I said in my earlier reply, I am reluctant to give out the engine number at this moment, however, I have am prepared to give out the specification of the bike as I bought it, which I think profiles it quite well and would make it quite memorable to any previous owner.

1)Bosch magneto
2)Bigger carburetor (1 3/8" or 35mm)
3)Peel "Mountain-mile" fairing.
4)"Robinson" 4-leading shoe front brake.
5)"high-level" exhaust system.
6) Smaller "Lyta" 3 gallon(15 litre) petrol tank
7)Cylinder head and barrel stamped"Wiessmann"

Also, I have now searched my old E-mails and in a reply from Rolf Wiessmann he mentions a "Michael Schneider" in connection with a "125cc Rimi Eigenbau" he had owned. I seem to remember a "Schneider" racing Nortons in the G.P's. This maybe a connection??? Anyone got any more details of him?? Best regards, Richard.

[joeninety]

Wasn't he known as Mallory Bob ?
Renowned raconteur Jim Redman mentions this in his interview.
Chris

[Rennmax]

.....
Also, I have now searched my old E-mails and in a reply from Rolf Wiessmann he mentions a "Michael Schneider" in connection with a "125cc Rimi Eigenbau" he had owned. I seem to remember a "Schneider" racing Nortons in the G.P's. This maybe a connection??? Anyone got any more details of him?? Best regards, Richard.

Hi Richard, have received your PM as well and will try to find out traces of your bike over here with the new information. Well, Michael Schneider is more known racing a NSU Sportmax than a Norton. There was a 'Schneider' racing Manxes in GPs, but that's Austrian Bert Schneider, who eventually became a Suzuki works rider.
Will keep you informed, cheers

Edited by Rennmax, 20 February 2011 - 21:37.

[fil2.8]

Also, I have now searched my old E-mails and in a reply from Rolf Wiessmann he mentions a "Michael Schneider" in connection with a "125cc Rimi Eigenbau" he had owned. I seem to remember a "Schneider" racing Nortons in the G.P's. This maybe a connection??? Anyone got any more details of him?? Best regards, Richard.

There was Bert Schneider who did the GP's , and the Continental Circus

[richard100n]

I think the Matchless & 7R were Geoff Monty's. Bob may well have sold his Nortons, because he was thinking of cars by then but I doubt very much he sold them at Monza: if you knew the aggro we had to go through to take a motor vehicle across a border back then, with carnets to be stamped into the country and out, bank guarantees for the bikes, often having to get them out of the van to show the officials, you wouldn't suggest it!

Hello Terry! Yes, very good point! Although I was never exposed to these regulations personally, I knew they had existed even into the late sixties and caused a lot of problems and delays to you chaps back then. However, as these carnets etc. were intended to stop the illegal import / export of vehicles etc., I imagine there must have been a legal way of importing / exporting also. Any idea of what was required to do that by an individual or a dealer like Monty and Ward??? I also wonder if the records still exist at HMRC??? Anybody got any experience from the era??? Regards, Richard.

[Arthur]

Hello Terry! Yes, very good point! Although I was never exposed to these regulations personally, I knew they had existed even into the late sixties and caused a lot of problems and delays to you chaps back then. However, as these carnets etc. were intended to stop the illegal import / export of vehicles etc., I imagine there must have been a legal way of importing / exporting also. Any idea of what was required to do that by an individual or a dealer like Monty and Ward??? I also wonder if the records still exist at HMRC??? Anybody got any experience from the era??? Regards, Richard.

Yes the legal way to import/export was to pay the duty on the machine I remember having difficulties with the Irish customs at Dublin.They would not accept my carnet and insisted on a triptyke Offered the duty via cheque but they insisted on cash which would be refundable at a later date providing I could prove I had taken the machines out of country. After much negotiation helped by Chris Goosen and Danny Keany who were picking me up the ferry company agreed to pay the cash which was around £100 per machine and they allowed me to run the machines through the disinfector spray which was compulsory Another event I remember was a visit from my local constabluary on behalf of the Spanish customs who had to witness I had brought a machine which was took into Spain out again I had'nt got the paperwork right on leaving. Mind you customs in those days could be difficult,sometimes they would'nt let you in at a border check so you just drove along the border to the next entrance where there would be no problem.

Edited by Arthur, 20 February 2011 - 21:04.

[Rennmax]

Hello Terry! Yes, very good point! Although I was never exposed to these regulations personally, I knew they had existed even into the late sixties and caused a lot of problems and delays to you chaps back then. However, as these carnets etc. were intended to stop the illegal import / export of vehicles etc., I imagine there must have been a legal way of importing / exporting also. Any idea of what was required to do that by an individual or a dealer like Monty and Ward??? I also wonder if the records still exist at HMRC??? Anybody got any experience from the era??? Regards, Richard.

The purpose of a carnet is temporary import without paying taxes and duties, which means that the goods must leave the country in the condition and number as they crossed the border inbound. If it was a regular import, you would have to pay consequently. This regulation ist valid for 'third party countries' but not within the EU countries. In the pre EU era, hence every foreign country was a third party country.

Edited by Rennmax, 20 February 2011 - 21:21.

[richard100n]

I think the Matchless & 7R were Geoff Monty's. Bob may well have sold his Nortons, because he was thinking of cars by then but I doubt very much he sold them at Monza: if you knew the aggro we had to go through to take a motor vehicle across a border back then, with carnets to be stamped into the country and out, bank guarantees for the bikes, often having to get them out of the van to show the officials, you wouldn't suggest it!

Hello Terry! Yes, very good point! Although I was never exposed to these regulations personally, I knew they had existed even into the late sixties and caused a lot of problems and delays to you chaps back then. However, as these carnets etc. were intended to stop the illegal import / export of vehicles etc., I imagine there must have been a legal way of importing / exporting also. Any idea of what was required to do that by an individual or a dealer like Monty and Ward??? I also wonder if the records still exist at HMRC??? Anybody got any experience from the era??? Regards, Richard.

[billbomann]

I understand from a colleague that Bob Anderson's 500 Manx was bought by Bryan (or Bryn) Owen, who lived at Dunstable in mid-1961. Owen raced the bike in the 1961 Senior Manx Grand Prix. Not sure if the bike was bought direct from Bob or from a dealer.

[richard100n]

I understand from a colleague that Bob Anderson's 500 Manx was bought by Bryan (or Bryn) Owen, who lived at Dunstable in mid-1961. Owen raced the bike in the 1961 Senior Manx Grand Prix. Not sure if the bike was bought direct from Bob or from a dealer.

Hello Bilbomann! Anybody out there know what happened to Bryn Owen? It would be interesting to know the details of his puchase! Where from? Who from? Did he have a choice of bikes? etc.?

[Robin127]

If it's the Bryan Owen I think it is I was in a car crash with him in 1991. He was a friend of a friend and came down to Brands with us where my brother was racing, we were involved in a bit of a smash on the way home. Both of us got some minor injuries but were taken to hospital to be checked out. I'll have to phone my mate Dave to get some more info., it must be him as they were both from the Dunstable area.

Edited by Robin127, 09 March 2011 - 03:31.

[GD66]

There's a Bob Anderson thread running over on the car forum as well, it's just been freshened up with a link to a car race Bob won at Vallelunga in 1963.

http://www.britishpa...rd.php?id=63167

Edited by GD66, 12 March 2011 - 23:16.