61 replies to this topic

[arttidesco]

AUTO SLIDES by Blackwell will be removed immediately upon request.

Amongst the amazing photo's Steve Arnaudin sent me taken by his father Ed in 1958/59 are a series of 12 purchased slides marked AUTO SLIDES by Backwell.

I wonder if any body knows who Blackwell was and how to get in touch with him / her ?

If any one knows anything about the #54 D-type or #18 C-type I'd be grateful for any information which will be duly credited in a a forthcoming blog.

The only thing I could find on Racingsportscars.com was reference to a Carlyle Blackwell who used to drive a #18 C-Type chassis 007 on the West Coast but I can find no references after 1957 and have no idea if his car was red, I have been through Terry O'Neil's excellent Northeast American Sports Car Races and again drawn a blank.

Any help will be much appreciated if I can get in touch with the copyright holder I'll post some more of these interestingly illuminated shots.

Thanking you in anticipation of your responses.

07 01 11 Corrected spelling of Blackwell from initially incorrect Backwell.

07 08 12 Photo Carlyle Blackwell, Published Courtesy Blackwell Archive, for sales enquiry's please e-mail infoATpsychoontyres.co.uk and your contact details will be forwarded to the Blackwell Archive.

Pamela tells me that her brother is seen at the wheel of the #18 Jaguar C-type in the photograph and that the photo was taken in Carlyle Blackwell's driveway.

Edited by arttidesco, 07 August 2012 - 11:48.

[Barry Boor]

I know what I'm looking at but... what am I looking at? An orange C-type!!!!

[alansart]

It may be a staged photo as the cockpit of 54 looks as though it's lit from inside.

[Sharman]

Photographs of models?

[RA Historian]

You are referring to Carlyle Blackwell. He raced a D type on the West Coast in the late 1950s. The car was at least two different colors over time. It had a two tone paint job when he and Ken Miles won the Pomona Six Hours with it in, what, 1958 or so. Later after the car was retired, it was painted red. It was in this color that it was featured in a 'Salon' article in Road & Track magazine sometime in the 1960s.

Blackwell was a professional photographer of some renown. His work was featured extensively in US books and magazines back then.

As far as contacting him, well, I am not sure but believe that he passed away a number of years ago.

Hopefully some of out West Coast TNFers will be able to add to my thoughts and answer your questions.

Tom

[fbarrett]

Memory suggests that Carlyle Blackwell was a West Coast photographer who shot a lot for Road & Track magazine in the 1950s. I highly doubt that those are models; the second car is lit by a light behind the first, and the cockpit lighting in the first car is clever but not unique.

Frank

[Stephen W]

It may be a staged photo as the cockpit of 54 looks as though it's lit from inside.

I would go for staged photo rather than from an actual race.

Photographs of models?

The cars look genuine having played around with the imageshack photo.

[arttidesco]

Wow ! So much information already, thanks to everyone who has contributed.

How bizarre I should choose the one photograph in Ed Arnaudin's collection that features what might reasonably be assumed (further TNF responses notwithstanding) to be the photographers own C-Type.

I have several more staged photographs in the collection including one featuring an interior lit #18 Gull Wing Merc with Press on Regardless plates at a highly staged stage control.

Does anyone know if the #54 D-type in the picture above could be the same as Carlyle's black and yellow #18 XKD 528 seen linked here in 1959 ?

I'll get in touch with R&T and see if they can direct me to the copyright owners and get permission to post the rest of the pics I have here.

Note to self wear spectacles when reading e-mail.

Note to Mr Twin Windows : Happy New Year TW any chance you could change Backwell to Blackwell in the Thread Title please ?

Thanks again

Edited by arttidesco, 06 January 2011 - 17:36.

[Jean L]

This photo was used for the cover of Sports Cars Illustrated of february 1957.

[RA Historian]

Following up on my earlier post, Blackwell and Ken Miles won the Pomona Six Hours in Blackwell's D Jag on 22 November 1958.

The Road & Track Salon article on Blackwell's D Jag was in the September, 1964, issue. The article was photographed by Blackwell himself.

In that Blackwell was a highly skilled professional photographer, and that a lot of his photography was studio staged, it seems to me that the posed shots of his cars referenced above were not only real cars but also shot in his studios. Blackwell was a respected and well known photog way back when.

Blackwell's D Jag was owned by him for many years and is the same car. Here is its history, as compiled by Philip Porter in his book, Jaguar Sports Racing Cars:

From Jaguar Sports Racing Cars
Supplied to Hornburg, USA; sold to Pearce Woods of Continental Motors, Whittier, California; January 1956 Torrey Pines Six Hours endurance race; featured in Road & Track; Palm Springs National race, Harold Erb, 3rd; 1958 sold to Carlyle Blackwell Jnr (Hollywood); later fitted with 3.8 engine, 35/40 head and painted yellow & black; Six Hour race, Pomona, California with Ken Miles, 1st (said to be last big win by a 'D' in US); 1960 Riverside, ret'd; late 1970s restored by Stephen Griswold; 1980/81 owned by Joel Finn & 1982 by Howard Cohen; Laguna Seca, crashed; repaired and raced at 4 events at Sears Point; c1985 sold to Ron Laurie (San Francisco, USA).

Philip Porter is the author of numerous books on the Jaguar marque. In additional to writing books and magazine articles and managing several businesses, he runs the XK Club and E-Type club from Worcestershire, England.

Tom

[arttidesco]

Following up on my earlier post, Blackwell and Ken Miles won the Pomona Six Hours in Blackwell's D Jag on 22 November 1958.

The Road & Track Salon article on Blackwell's D Jag was in the September, 1964, issue. The article was photographed by Blackwell himself.

In that Blackwell was a highly skilled professional photographer, and that a lot of his photography was studio staged, it seems to me that the posed shots of his cars referenced above were not only real cars but also shot in his studios. Blackwell was a respected and well known photog way back when.

Blackwell's D Jag was owned by him for many years and is the same car. Here is its history, as compiled by Philip Porter in his book, Jaguar Sports Racing Cars:

From Jaguar Sports Racing Cars
Supplied to Hornburg, USA; sold to Pearce Woods of Continental Motors, Whittier, California; January 1956 Torrey Pines Six Hours endurance race; featured in Road & Track; Palm Springs National race, Harold Erb, 3rd; 1958 sold to Carlyle Blackwell Jnr (Hollywood); later fitted with 3.8 engine, 35/40 head and painted yellow & black; Six Hour race, Pomona, California with Ken Miles, 1st (said to be last big win by a 'D' in US); 1960 Riverside, ret'd; late 1970s restored by Stephen Griswold; 1980/81 owned by Joel Finn & 1982 by Howard Cohen; Laguna Seca, crashed; repaired and raced at 4 events at Sears Point; c1985 sold to Ron Laurie (San Francisco, USA).

Philip Porter is the author of numerous books on the Jaguar marque. In additional to writing books and magazine articles and managing several businesses, he runs the XK Club and E-Type club from Worcestershire, England.

Tom

Thanks Jean I will try Excellence magazines which appear to be from the same publisher as SCI when it closed down regards permissions if I have no joy at R&T :-)

Tom it's still sinking in that Carlyle had both a C AND a D-type simultaneously, he must have monetised some serious respect for those kind of green backs ! Thanks for the further clarification.

[Jerry Entin]

The driver in the cream-colored D-type is Jack Douglas. I understand that the photo was staged rather than taken during a race. Part of the image [Douglas' close-up] was used on the cover of the March 1963 issue of Sports Car Graphic. The photo was taken by Douglas' friend Carlyle Blackwell.

all research: Willem Oosthoek

[arttidesco]

Thanks for the Jack Douglas tip Jerry :-)

Small discrepancy here is that at RacingSportsCars.com Jack is shown as driving the #54 D-Type XKD 531 up to Jan 1957 while Carlyle is shown as driving the # 18 D-type XKD 528.

For the purpose of clarity can anyone confirm if either of these chassis numbers are correct ?

If they are both correct that would dispel the theory that #54 in this photo is the same D-type that Carlyle raced from May 1958.

[Frank S]

The driver in the cream-colored D-type is Jack Douglas. I understand that the photo was staged rather than taken during a race. Part of the image [Douglas' close-up] was used on the cover of the March 1963 issue of Sports Car Graphic. The photo was taken by Douglas' friend Carlyle Blackwell.

all research: Willem Oosthoek

Edit to insert link: The D-type appears in this photo I made at Torrey Pines (three versions available).

Is it the same Jack Douglas who was a comedy writer and appeared on late-night television such as Steve Allen's show, and Johnny Carson's? If I recall correctly that Jack Douglas was married to a Japanese woman.

Edited by Frank S, 07 January 2011 - 00:59.

[arttidesco]

Edit to insert link: The D-type appears in this photo I made at Torrey Pines (three versions available).

Is it the same Jack Douglas who was a comedy writer and appeared on late-night television such as Steve Allen's show, and Johnny Carson's? If I recall correctly that Jack Douglas was married to a Japanese woman.

Thanks for the top link Frank a wonderful resource for anyone who likes to see programme covers too !

I Googled Carlyle Blackwell it would appear he had a few Hollywood connections and possibly was an actor as well as a photographer, so I imagine it's not too much of a stretch to put forward the hypothesis that Jack Douglas the race driver and Jack Douglas the comedy writer may be one and the same, look forward to further confirmation or dismissal of that hypothesis.

[Jerry Entin]

Historian Jim Sitz knew Carlyle well and after he died, was in touch a few times with the photographer's daughter, who owns the collection. So it seems that is were the copyright would be, rather then with the magazines. As for where your images may have come from, Carlyle is known to have sold slides of his work in his days.

all research : Willem Oosthoek

[RA Historian]

Here is what Philip Porter has to say about D type no. 531:

From Jaguar Sports Racing Cars
Supplied to Hornburg, USA (presumed); sold to Jack Douglas (California); painted yellow & raced from early 1956; June, Texas National Championship races, l0th & 11th; June, Great Salt Lake Trophy 100-mile race, 2nd; October 1957, advertised for $7000 by ex-factory mechanic Joe Thrall on behalf of Jack Douglas: winter, sold to Ray Seher (Reno, Nevada); June 1958, Laguna Seca, 8th; February 1959, sold to Tom Groskritz; 1964 used for quarter-mile runs at San Fernando Raceway; new factory D head fitted; used for SCTA Time Trials at Riverside; Tom Groskritz (Costa Mesa, California, USA).

Tom

[arttidesco]

Any idea of Carlyle's daughters name Jerry ? Or how I can get in touch with Jim Stitz ? (please PM or e-mail me if you prefer to keep the details out of the public domain).

Thanks Tom, I really need to find a date for the above pic which we know was purchased in 1958/59 at a time when both Jack's former XKD 531 and Carlyles XKD 528 were painted mustard yellow and black & yellow respectively, which suggests the car in the photo 'may' either be a completely different vehicle or be painted up just for the shoot.



Do we know for certain that Jack Douglas is sitting in the car either the comedy writer or a non related racing driver ?



07 08 12 Photo Carlyle Blackwell, Published Courtesy Blackwell Archive, for sales enquiry's please e-mail infoATpsychoontyres.co.uk and your contact details will be forwarded to the Blackwell Archive.

Did anyone else have a completely beige D-Type with pinstripes ?

Edited by arttidesco, 07 August 2012 - 11:48.

[helioseism]

For what it is worth, the photo in the opening post is on the cover of the February 1957 issue of the American magazine Sports Cars Illustrated.

[arttidesco]

Thanks Frank does anyone have a copy of Sports Car Illustrated Feb '57 to see if there are any details about what chassis number the #54 is, who the driver in the photo is or who owned this particular car ?

Thanking for and in anticipation of, your responses

[JB Miltonian]

[quote name='arttidesco' date='Jan 6 2011, 19:42' post='4779602']
Thanks Frank does anyone have a copy of Sports Car Illustrated Feb '57 to see if there are any details about what chassis number the #54 is, who the driver in the photo is or who owned this particular car ?

The SCI issue of Feb 57 does indeed have the cover picture as shown, but it does not have any details on the car or the driver. The masthead description of the cover reads: "Carlyle Blackwell shot this Ektachrome of a pair of competition Jaguars booming through the night."

The Sports Car Graphic cover of March 1963, as mentioned in the post above, is indeed taken from this same photo. The masthead reads: "If the face on this month's cover looks familiar, it should be. It belongs to Jack Douglas, writer, author of among other things, "My brother was an only child", and sometime race driver. The photo was shot by his friend, Hollywood photographer Carlyle Blackwell." There is nothing about the D-Type in the magazine.

[raceannouncer2003]

More on the C type, and Carlyle Blackwell, Jr. at this link...apparently he passed away in September of 1974:

http://www.rmauction...?...&CarID=r275

Vince H.

[arttidesco]

Thanks JBM and Vince.

Funny SCI strap line 'Carlyle Blackwell shot this Ektachrome of a pair of competition Jaguars booming through the night', when it is obviously a studio shot and neither car has it's head lights on ! I would have thought 'booming through the studio' would be just as impressive :-)

The emerging picture is summed up thus Jack Douglas writer and author positively ID'd by SCG March 1963 , and probably sitting in XKD 528 which the owner Pierce Woods appears to have started painting Biege / Magnolia / Ivory in 1956.

We know that the studio photo was taken before February 1957 a period when the Ivory XKD 528 appears to have been entered by R.V. Milosevich (?) for Harold Erb and Pearce Woods to share the driving duties.

So if the studio D-Type is XKD 528 and the photo was taken prior to February 1957 the photo was taken approximately 12 months BEFORE Carlyle purchased it in 1958.

I find it slightly odd that Carlyle would borrow XKD 528 when Jack had his own yellow XKD 531 available at the time but presumably there is a rational explanation that may for ever be lost in the mist of time.

The #18 almost certainly is XKC 007 though I have seen no visual evidence of its colour, XKC 007 was reported as being black when Phil Hill drove it at Watkins Glen in 1952, and red while in Blackwell's ownership at Panoma in 1957 a race where the car is also reported DNA ?

Thanking everyone for their help, no word yet from R&T so I'll hold off posting further pics for a while yet.

[Frank S]

It looks black in the fourth-row, second-album pictures on these albums of eBaY-find photos from Torrey Pines, December 1952.

[arttidesco]

It looks black in the fourth-row, second-album pictures on these albums of eBaY-find photos from Torrey Pines, December 1952.

Thanks for the link Frank XKC 007 certainly looks very dark in Phil's hands, I wonder if we can turn up any colour picture of XKC 007 with Phil or Carlyle driving the car ?

Edited by arttidesco, 08 January 2011 - 10:53.

[Gary C]

No-one has mentioned the 'interesting' crash helmet being worn. It looks to me like something the USAAF would have been using at the time...............

[JoBo]

Does anybody know who holds the copyrights of the Blackwell-photos? I heard a while ago that a photo gallery in CA has it.

Someone with more infos?

JoBo

[Barry Boor]

I am still trying to work out what the point of that photo actually was.

[scags]

I am still trying to work out what the point of that photo actually was.

A magazine cover shot, I believe.

[arttidesco]

A magazine cover shot, I believe.

And here is the first cover it appeared on Sports Car Illustrated Feb 1957

[Barry Boor]

Ah! Thank you. It helps when you can actually see a bit of background, studio staged or not.

[arttidesco]

Ah! Thank you. It helps when you can actually see a bit of background, studio staged or not.

There is plenty on the subject about how Ektachrome ages else where on TNF, I was quite surprised how much the slide my friend Ed Arnaudin purchased has darkened over 50 years Barry.

I am now beginning to wonder if the #54 D-type is indeed Jack Douglas mustard yellow XKD 531 and not the ivory XKD 528.

Wondering if anyone who owns a copy of Feb 57 Sports Car Illustrated can confirm if the car Jack is driving on the cover is indeed yellow or off white/ivory ?

[Frank S]

Thanks for the link Frank XKC 007 certainly looks very dark in Phil's hands, I wonder if we can turn up any colour picture of XKC 007 with Phil or Carlyle driving the car ?

Road & Track January 1953 has more pictures of Hill and the C-type, but not in (living) color:



Legible versions and another article with XKC information and photos from the same R&T issue:
R&T 53-01

[arttidesco]

Road & Track January 1953 has more pictures of Hill and the C-type, but not in (living) color:



Legible versions and another article with XKC information and photos from the same R&T issue:
R&T 53-01

Thanks Frank, most kind of you, interesting to think what might happen if today's LMS cars attempted to run a lap of Monaco let alone run a race !

Does anybody know anything about the 4.5 litre C-type Alan K Clark mentions on the last page of the article ?

[arttidesco]

07 08 12 Photo Carlyle Blackwell, Published Courtesy Blackwell Archive, for sales enquiry's please e-mail infoATpsychoontyres.co.uk and your contact details will be forwarded to the Blackwell Archive.

Would anybody be able to hazard a guess if Carlyle Blackwell's shot of Jack Nethercutt's Lotus XI was a studio shot or at a track ?

If at a track which one ?

Thanking you in anticipation.

Edited by arttidesco, 07 August 2012 - 11:49.

[Jean L]

Paramount Ranch ?

[JB Miltonian]

The picture of the Lotus XI shown above is nearly identical (but not exactly!) to the cover picture on Road & Track, March 1957. The photo credit reads:

"It was dry and hot at Paramount Ranch, near Los Angeles, the day Carlyle Blackwell shot our March cover - but no hotter than the Lotus Eleven, driven here by its owner, Jack Nethercutt."

[arttidesco]

Thanks Jean L and JBM, most helpful Paramount Ranch is a track I have only recently heard of !

JBM have we met elsewhere in the last 24 hours

[arttidesco]

The picture of the Lotus XI shown above is nearly identical (but not exactly!) to the cover picture on Road & Track, March 1957. The photo credit reads:

"It was dry and hot at Paramount Ranch, near Los Angeles, the day Carlyle Blackwell shot our March cover - but no hotter than the Lotus Eleven, driven here by its owner, Jack Nethercutt."

I just noticed that a copy of that March 1957 R&T is for sale on e-bay :-)

[arttidesco]

07 08 12 Photo Carlyle Blackwell, Published Courtesy Blackwell Archive, for sales enquiry's please e-mail infoATpsychoontyres.co.uk and your contact details will be forwarded to the Blackwell Archive.

Wondering if anyone knows if Simon Taylors Stovebolt Special HWM Chevrolet reg RPC2 is the same as the HWM #49 001 chassis seen here in another Carlyle Blackwell photograph driven by Bill Pollack at Paramount Ranch (?) when it was owned by Tom Carstons ?

I always thought HWM fitted Jaguar or Alta motors, did HWM fit Chevrolet motors as well, or was than done by owners ?

Thanking you in anticipation of your responses.

Edited by arttidesco, 07 August 2012 - 11:50.

[alansart]

Simon Taylor posts on here occasionally, so perhaps will be able to answer your question.

Edited by alansart, 30 March 2011 - 11:41.

[David McKinney]

I'm sure Simon can answer for himself, but AFAIK the car, originally Alta-powered, was acquired by 20th Century Fox in 1953 for The Racers (or Such Men Are Dangerous, depending on the locality of your nearest cinema). All the cars used in the movie were acquired by Tom Carstens, some sold on, some scrapped. But he kept the HWM, fitting a 5-litre Chevrolet V8 in 1955, during which period it was raced by Bill Pollack and acquired the nom de course Stovebolt Special.
Simon Taylor has owned it since 2000

[arttidesco]

Thanks Alan and David

Simon if you see this thread, I am posting a blog about your car on Saturday, if you would like to send me a recent snap of it, I'd be delighted to include it in the blog.

[alansart]

Thanks Alan and David

Simon if you see this thread, I am posting a blog about your car on Saturday, if you would like to send me a recent snap of it, I'd be delighted to include it in the blog.

A couple of snaps I took last year.

[fnqvmuch]

Wondering if anyone knows if ... Simon Taylors Stovebolt Special HWM Chevrolet reg RPC2 ... is the same as the ... chassis seen here in another Carlyle Blackwell photograph driven by Bill Pollack at Paramount Ranch (?) when it was owned by Tom Carstons ?
...

well ... a caption from a shot on H.A.M.B ( i'll try to find it when i have bandwidth) reads;

'In this photo by Don Meacham; Bill, in Tom Carstens' HWM-Chevrolet "Stovebolt" leads out of Turn 4 at the 7th Pebble Beach races, April 22, 1956. Following are Ernie McAfee in Bill Doheny's Ferrari 121LM, Phil Hill in John von Neumann's Ferrari 860 Monza, Carroll Shelby in Dick Hall's Ferrari 750 Monza, Pete Woods in his D-Type Jaguar, and Bob "Gus" Wittke in his Austin Healey.'

- for what thats worth ...
steven

ps - a shot which your link has a detail from, i think.

Edited by fnqvmuch, 30 March 2011 - 12:25.

[Tim Murray]

I don't know if this is of any use, but here's what Simon said about HWMs in the Aston Martin DP155 thread:

A couple of TNFers have suggested I comment on this thread - apologies for taking so long to do so! Here are my thoughts, for what they may or may not be worth:

Number one: this car is not an HWM, and has nothing to do with any HWM as far as I am aware. There were mutters about it having some HWM ancestry when it came up at the Goodwood Bonhams auction, and various HWM people looked at it and recognised no part of the chassis.

Number two: It does use the Aston Martin Tasman single-seater body. The recently sadly departed Geoff Richardson, of RRA fame, bought the single-seater Aston in the late 1950s, and because he thought the Aston engine was under-powered he replaced it with a 2.4-litre Jaguar engine (wanting to remain within the 2500cc F1 capacity limit). Autosport published a picture of him racing the car in this form at Snetterton, by which time he was calling the car an RRA. He subsequently converted it into a two-seater, I believe with a somewhat DB3S-like body. In order to make somebody lots of money, it may more recently have metamorphosed into something approximating to a proper DB3S - I am sure an Aston expert (which I am certainly not) can tell us.

Number three: Having converted the Tasman Aston to a Jaguar-powered two-seater, Geoff sold the single-seater body, and I believe this body found its way to Ireland. Maybe Geoff sold the Aston engine with the body, in which case that may be the source of the engine in this car: an engine number check may help here, because I believe the number of the Tasman single-seater's engine was noted in Aston factory records.

Number four: the apochryphal HWM connection with this car may have come about because there was a 1950 HWM which disappeared into Ireland. In 1950 HWM built four offset cockpit F2 cars: the three works cars (of which my Stovebolt Special is one, Terry Grainger's ex-Oscar Moore Jaguar-engined car is another, and the third was rebuilt into correct Alta-engined form and is now with a collector in Gloucestershire). The fourth car was a customer car built for Alistair Baring. It was sold at the end of 1950 to John Brown in Scotland, and ended up with Ray Fielding at his garage in Forres. Ray subsequently removed the body and put it on a Jaguar-powered Alta, the car later registered ND 4040 when it belonged to Nestor Douglas.

The ex-Baring, ex-Brown 1950 HWM was rebodied by Feilding with a Rochdale fibreglass shell - the one with the same shape as the Connaught sports-racers of the day - and, still with its 2-litre Alta engine, later found its way to Ireland. The car was raced in this form in Ireland but has since disappeared. An Irish historian who I believe posts on here from time to time very kindly sent me a picture of the car at a Northern Ireland airfield circuit in the early 1960s.

It may be that this fourth 1950 HWM was crashed or dismantled or chopped up, because I have not been able to find any trace of it since those early 1960s club races. But maybe - just maybe - the owner replaced it with a new special, with a chassis built in Ireland, and used the ex-Richardson Aston Martin body and maybe also an ex-Richardson Aston engine. The HWM chassis would have had transverse leaf suspension front and rear. I have looked at this Aston-bodied car and the chassis is absolutely not like that.

Having gone on at length and sent you all to sleep, can any Irish historians throw any more light on what really did happen to that Rochdale-bodied, Alta-engined 1950 HWM? It would be great to know if its remains are in a cowshed somewhere.....If you have any clues, or ever saw this car racing in Ireland about 45 years ago, please get in touch.

[arttidesco]

Thanks for the interesting caption Steven

I got the, detail indeed but no other cars are seen in the original scan I have, image from Ed Arnaudin who purchased it back in the day, his son Steve assures me that the Slide is marked Autoslides by Blackwell and such a photo is listed by in Carlyle's ad seen on this post by TNFer Miltonian.

The photo seems to have appeared in or on Sports Car Illustrated going on the SCI initials in the ad.

[arttidesco]

Oh ! Well scratch my HWM blog post on Saturday Tim Thanks for keeping me up to date with the latest developments

I wonder if the HWM name refers simply to the badge that was salvaged by Tom Carstens from the car wrecked in The Racers, back in the day ?

[Tim Murray]

Oh dear - I think I've inadvertently sold you a red herring, Ralph. The car Simon starts off talking about is the so-called Aston Martin DP155 which is the subject of that thread. In his paragraph which starts 'Number four' he says, 'In 1950 HWM built four offset cockpit F2 cars: the three works cars (of which my Stovebolt Special is one ... ' so the Stovebolt is definitely an HWM. Sorry

[arttidesco]

No worries Tim I spotted my mistake in reading "This is not an HWM" when I finally got round to having a some lunch