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The David Beard Memorial photographers' thread


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#2851 SamoanAttorney

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Posted 10 December 2019 - 15:24

You can steer clear of Epson, but what were you expecting for a $200 film scanner?

I scanned close to 5,000 images with the 2450, then realized upon seeing what Nikons were giving that I'd asked too much of the 2450 on 35mm slides -- which I think was $500-ish 17 years ago. I begrudgingly (!) re-scanned every slide, but the 4x5 scans were and are still very usable.

The V750M-Pro "wet mount" scanner I replaced it with just for 4x5 film scans blew the doors off anything any lab had ever done for me. I recently made a 90x90 trade show print from one.

I've never had an issue with either, but as we know Luck can be a cruel and indecisive beast.

 

Scanning has been a part of my daily routine for the past two years.

 

I am now approaching 40k slides/negs (35mm) scanned using an Epson V850 and Silverfast software. It is not perfect, but I sell the scans and get them published in books and magazines.

 

For the New Year I am probably going to change my method and use a camera instead.............this has become the industry standard, LAT has five people working through their massive archive utilising this method, most of the big museums are also doing things this way.

 

There is a wealth of information and a book to be found HERE from pioneer, Peter Krogh.

 

I suspect there will be whole new learning curve heading at full tilt towards me in January.



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#2852 E1pix

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Posted 10 December 2019 - 16:39

Great stuff, John. Makes perfect sense, I have a 1:1 Nikkor 60 perfect for this with a D800, but it'll be years before attempting scanning the rest of the 50K or so originals I have. Probably never, honestly.

Would love to hear of your progress.

#2853 SamoanAttorney

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Posted 10 December 2019 - 16:58

Great stuff, John. Makes perfect sense, I have a 1:1 Nikkor 60 perfect for this with a D800, but it'll be years before attempting scanning the rest of the 50K or so originals I have. Probably never, honestly.

Would love to hear of your progress.

Well, you will probably hear the bad language across the Atlantic as I continually screw things up..........age, ability and mental capacity being somewhat against me.

 

I have purchased the stand and table.

 

I have to clear the office out to make space............then probably a Canon 5DS R with the 90mm TS-E f2.8 Macro............this on the advice of LAT, just a tad expensive............

 

I probably have another 60k files to go..........this will speed up things.....and the archive will have a greater value.....what a fool believes..............cue Michael McDonald

 

Or is it Pretzel Logic?

 

jb



#2854 Odseybod

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Posted 10 December 2019 - 17:15

Thanks for the interesting comments re film scanners vs the DSLR copy approach, which pretty much echo my own thoughts. I'm another member of the Coolscan V and VueScan gang, which I'm reasonably happy with. The Coolscan was a pre-owned purchase from Ffordes and, as usual with their s/h stuff, was rather better than described. Think I was lucky to get it at the time (about 4 years ago), as they don't appear on their site very often. It replaced a Canon FS4000US, which was OK but starting to make worrying noises in the film carrier transport department - not uncommon, apparently.

 

My only gripe with VueScan is that I keep finding tweaks that make the results even better, so that previous scans (hundreds) really ought to be done again to match that standard.

 

However, encouraged by Rob (I think it was), I dusted off the Nikon scan software (plus 64-bit patch), mainly to remind myself why I didn't like it, and came away very impressed - it certainly breathed new life into old Kodachromes so I must try it on some old Fuji slides (my more usual diet, back in the day) to see if it's similarly successful. I think my main grumble with it previously was that it was a bit clunky when scanning strips of negatives (or trannies), which Vuescan does effortlessly - but probably I was too lazy to find out how to do it properly. I'm also having a slight tussle making the output pane match the preview one - but that's maybe just a matter of tweaking the curves.

 

Anyway here are three from a vintage meeting at Donington in May 1979 - straight from the scanner, with no Photoshoppery (mainly to eradicate any blobs left by ICE - I had that set to Normal, as I believe it can affect definition if you get too ambitious with it). For sad people like me, the support vehicles in the Paddock are almost as interesting as the vintage machinery ...

 

Image-12.jpg

 

Image-18.jpg

 

Image-18a.jpg

 

   



#2855 SamoanAttorney

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Posted 10 December 2019 - 17:34

The tools to get rid of marks have to be used sparingly otherwise all manner of artefacts appear.

 

Today's haul was another 74 slides joining the archive, mostly 2000 Rolex 24, like this. Straight from the TIFF scan, just reduced down in size

 

2000Rolex24_jb_2061.jpg



#2856 Simon Arron

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Posted 10 December 2019 - 19:45

Calado-Fisichella-Vilander-F488-Garcia-M

Three marques, 10 drivers, one stupidly long caption... The Calado/Fisichella/Vilander Ferrari F488 tussles with the Garcia/Magnussen/Rockenfeller Corvette and the Aschenbach/Davis/Bell/Liddell Audi R8 during the Daytona 24 Hours in 2017.


Edited by Simon Arron, 10 December 2019 - 19:45.


#2857 bradbury west

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Posted 10 December 2019 - 20:21

Tony, superb colour and clarity in your shots. Lovely to see the Safari and Stag in the rear ground.
Roger Lund.

Edited by bradbury west, 11 December 2019 - 01:06.


#2858 E1pix

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Posted 10 December 2019 - 20:56

Great fellers, you got me Tech Talking again. Oh, the agony. :-)

No matter what anyone scans with, there's a massive step before scanning anything: IT8 targets from Wolf Faust.

Saving my thoughts on calibrating one's monitor and entire workflow, any scanner recognizing what's neutral on input is the quickest start to having reliable color -- regardless of what one thinks the monitor is telling them. Save in Adobe RGB, or better yet ProPhoto, and only convert to sRGB when to the web phase. Never ever ever save a scan in sRGB unless all you ever want is web-only images, though even then a big mistake.

#2859 uffen

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Posted 10 December 2019 - 22:08

I had a Nikon film scanner and the results were not good. I put up with it for quite a while, though. Then I got an Epson flat bed (V750 Pro) and the results were 50x better.

I always hear about colour correction and different colour profiles, but what is the "correct" colour when every film stock is noted for having a unique palette of its own?

My big issue with scanned results (and indeed with digital files from a DSLR) is the blue tinge in shadow areas. Shooting cars on a race track brought this front and centre. New asphalt, asphalt in shadow, or most any asphalt taken at specific angles always had so much blue in it (and cyan) that individual correction was needed.

 

I've never been able to scan my father's old slides that were sandwiched with glass. The scanners could never achieve focus. Perhaps the DSLR copying method would solve that issue.



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#2860 E1pix

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Posted 11 December 2019 - 01:31

Lots to address and great post.

For now, know that IT8 targets are -- in essence if not just in creation -- original film images of a standard color chart that is then scanned. So the color and contrast differences yielded are near-exact renditions of any film's tendencies.

The scanner then scans the IT8 target and creates a base profile to later scan with. I've got them for Velvia 50 and 100 (which I rarely shot with), and Kodachrome 25 and 64. Before using that, the scanner can't see, like wearing crappy sunglasses -- but it's only spot on if the image was color-neutral to begin with. Only getting a monitor calibrated will accurately show what one has, but if unable to go to that step at least the scans will be profiled.

It's been a while but it does seem my unprofiled Nikon 5000 scans did tend cold, seems I added a few points to color temp straight away in Photoshop. Then I discovered Lightroom's reaction to scanned film and threw the whole mess back to correction in Lightroom, some things Photoshop can't even touch by comparison and I need keywording.

Example, for me my Velvia 50 images -- (and particularly 4x5s simply for the scanned size of shadows and highlights) -- tended to scan green in shadows until buying the targets. I find Silverfast to be a worthy program in scan prep, not so much after though. The Multiscan is fabulous on big film but can leave bizarre spectral highlights on high-contrast edges. My fix for those was layering the two scans and erasing through the flaws on the top layer in Photoshop to reveal the lack of flaws in those areas below.

Edited to add: racetracks trend blue as races are typically in crummy blue light. So the shadows really show that, and the best clarifier of that theory is a mid-day sunny snow image, in which I tend to leave some blue in the correction as it really is there -- but magnified by both film and digital.

Edited by E1pix, 11 December 2019 - 01:41.


#2861 Stephen W

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Posted 11 December 2019 - 07:52

You can steer clear of Epson, but what were you expecting for a $200 film scanner?
 

 

I expect it to scan all of the slide not three quarters of it and part of the slide frame. I expect all four slots to perform uniformly. Finally I expect the company to "replace with new" rather than a repaired second-hand machine or refund the full purchase price.



#2862 dwh43scale

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Posted 11 December 2019 - 09:10

A timely message as the season draws to a close (aside from the occasional rally, sporting trial and the Mallory Park Plum Pudding races).

 

David-Harbey-DSC-3280-Go.jpg


Edited by dwh43scale, 11 December 2019 - 09:10.


#2863 Simon Arron

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Posted 11 December 2019 - 09:27

I think my season is now pretty much done, David - can't do Mallory on Boxing Day as I'd promised to join the family for an alternative sporting fixture: Brentford vs Swansea City at Griffin Park.

 

I guess I might find a sporting trial if I look hard enough...



#2864 john aston

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Posted 11 December 2019 - 09:54

If anyone needs a respite from post election trauma and/or Christmas shopping the Croft Christmas Stages on Sunday15th offers some excellent photographic opportunities, especially if Mark  2 Escorts do for you what they do for me.   



#2865 E1pix

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Posted 11 December 2019 - 12:55

I expect it to scan all of the slide not three quarters of it and part of the slide frame. I expect all four slots to perform uniformly. Finally I expect the company to "replace with new" rather than a repaired second-hand machine or refund the full purchase price.

Fair enough, I'd probably feel the same if in your shoes.

#2866 E1pix

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Posted 11 December 2019 - 16:41

There is a wealth of information and a book to be found HERE from pioneer, Peter Krogh.

I finally looked at this, John.

Looks like an invaluable resource of something I've long thought "the better way."

Might be the best invention since the ale. :-)

#2867 dwh43scale

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Posted 11 December 2019 - 17:44

 

Three marques, 10 drivers, one stupidly long caption... The Calado/Fisichella/Vilander Ferrari F488 tussles with the Garcia/Magnussen/Rockenfeller Corvette and the Aschenbach/Davis/Bell/Liddell Audi R8 during the Daytona 24 Hours in 2017.

 

Inspired by Simon's post - here's a Mazda in the pitlane in the rain at the 2017 Rolex and SA himself !

 

DSC-3066-mazda.jpg

 

DSC-2950-sa.jpg



#2868 E1pix

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Posted 11 December 2019 - 17:56

Heartwarming.

#2869 Belmondo

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Posted 12 December 2019 - 11:11

Odseybod – I love your '79 Donington shots. I swear there's something about film photos that digital doesn't replicate. Or perhaps its just nostalgia and the fact that modern paddock shots have 10 massive transporters in the background.



#2870 Gary Davies

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Posted 12 December 2019 - 11:56

The latter, old fruit! I recall a Billy Connolly gig years ago. He started going on about the trams in Dundee. Waxing lyrical. Nearly had himself - and the audience - in tears. Then he woke up... told us, as only he can, how effing awful they were. "That's what nostalgia does to ye" he said.  :lol:

 

But I do so love Odsey's pics. The fellow with his arms folded... is it possible to imagine  a pose, an overall appearance, more British? I love it!!!


Edited by Gary Davies, 12 December 2019 - 11:56.


#2871 Odseybod

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Posted 12 December 2019 - 14:52

Thanks both - comments much appreciated. I've attached a couple more from the same meeting, plus a third to remind us how open and 'parky' Donington was soon after it reopened, before all the fences and other clutter (necessarily) appeared.

 

Re Billy Connolly. I've only to think of the wartime Gents in the 1950s/60s Silverstone Paddock, or the oil drums plus separating canvas screen serving the same function at the newly opened Thruxton for an instant nostalgia cure. Oooh, the pong!

 

Image-22.jpg

 

Image-24.jpg

 

Image-33.jpg

 

 



#2872 E1pix

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Posted 12 December 2019 - 14:58

Thanks for bringing 'em back to life, Tony!

Miss those days so much...

#2873 Belmondo

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Posted 12 December 2019 - 16:28

Renault 16 in the background of the first shot. My father had two and swears they were the best cars he ever owned.



#2874 john aston

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Posted 12 December 2019 - 17:02

I was at Donington last October to do a race report , in which I moaned that spectating was not a patch on what it used to be because of stupidly vast run off areas . The photo of the Old Hairpin illustrates this perfectly - the good people were actually in the same time zone as the cars. It is absurd - back in the day Donington had F2 , F3000 and domestic F1 and you could enjoy proximity. Now it gets club meetings attended by 3 locals and a dog and its biggest event is touring cars - but hey, we're all so much safer :o



#2875 E1pix

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Posted 12 December 2019 - 18:11

It seems virtual reality has made reality far too risky.

I had a new friend tell me the other day, "Some things are so dangerous they shouldn't even be attempted," referring to both our loves of racing and climbing. I think I just smiled and asked, "For who?"

If people get any softer, there'll be even more of them. :-)

#2876 uffen

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Posted 12 December 2019 - 18:18

Lots to address and great post.

For now, know that IT8 targets are -- in essence if not just in creation -- original film images of a standard color chart that is then scanned. So the color and contrast differences yielded are near-exact renditions of any film's tendencies.

The scanner then scans the IT8 target and creates a base profile to later scan with. I've got them for Velvia 50 and 100 (which I rarely shot with), and Kodachrome 25 and 64. Before using that, the scanner can't see, like wearing crappy sunglasses -- but it's only spot on if the image was color-neutral to begin with. Only getting a monitor calibrated will accurately show what one has, but if unable to go to that step at least the scans will be profiled.

It's been a while but it does seem my unprofiled Nikon 5000 scans did tend cold, seems I added a few points to color temp straight away in Photoshop. Then I discovered Lightroom's reaction to scanned film and threw the whole mess back to correction in Lightroom, some things Photoshop can't even touch by comparison and I need keywording.

Example, for me my Velvia 50 images -- (and particularly 4x5s simply for the scanned size of shadows and highlights) -- tended to scan green in shadows until buying the targets. I find Silverfast to be a worthy program in scan prep, not so much after though. The Multiscan is fabulous on big film but can leave bizarre spectral highlights on high-contrast edges. My fix for those was layering the two scans and erasing through the flaws on the top layer in Photoshop to reveal the lack of flaws in those areas below.

Edited to add: racetracks trend blue as races are typically in crummy blue light. So the shadows really show that, and the best clarifier of that theory is a mid-day sunny snow image, in which I tend to leave some blue in the correction as it really is there -- but magnified by both film and digital.

Okay, a few questions. I gather that IT8 is a set colour profile for a specific film. How does the scanner know which of the, say, 5 profiles you have, is to be used?
And, if you shoot Velvia because you like the look of Velvia why would you want a "neutral" scan?

What does "... and I need keywording" mean?

I appreciate all this expertise but I am afraid I am a few (ok, many) steps behind you on scanning knowledge.



#2877 E1pix

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Posted 12 December 2019 - 18:29

1. Once you scan the IT8 -- a sheet of film or slide of a color chart -- the scanning software creates a profile that you choose for any scans of that film afterwards.

2. "Neutral" may not be my best choice of words here. Example, if a film is known to be too contrasty, scanning with that film's profile considers this in not letting it get even more contrasty. Difficult to explain in a post.

3. Lightroom goes far beyond Photoshop in integrating database capability. Keywording in Photoshop entails individually adding words, in Lightroom one can select thousands of images at once to add, say "motor racing" in one click.

#2878 Odseybod

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Posted 13 December 2019 - 11:26

As an alternative for 3 and/or if you don't have Lightroom, I'd recommend H & M's StudioLine Photo Classic software, which (among other things) includes an Indexing program with plenty of keywording scope. I use it to index the DVDs that my external hard drives are backed up onto - handy and not too space hungry.



#2879 elansprint72

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Posted 13 December 2019 - 20:49

On a very strange Friday 13th, politically speaking, in Europe, here is a shot of some English guys in France. 

 

49214799196_e343e59bf8_b.jpg

Madness. 


Edited by elansprint72, 14 December 2019 - 14:58.


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#2880 Simon Arron

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Posted 14 December 2019 - 17:29

The way we were. Not sure whether this was taken with a GB Kershaw folding camera or a Pentax Spotmatic, a hand-me-down that my professional photographer dad occasionally allowed me to use after I turned 16. The scene? Former British Grand Prix host Aintree in 1977, with Phil Barak's Escort and Peter Jurgens's Austin A40 parked on what was once the Sefton Straight, part of the longer version of the track on which major internationals took place until it closed at the end of 1964. At subsequent clubbies, the asphalt once graced by Fangio was simply a parking space in the paddock. As a  youngster I was always far less interested in my paddock shots than I was in my attempts at action photography. Now that I'm a relic, I find I'm fascinated by the background detail in snaps like this – Kim Mather's transporter (the van with Dinorben Arms stickers), for instance, or that Ford Cortina 1600E, not to mention the period dress code...

Barak-Escort-Jurgens-A40-1.jpg



#2881 Tim Murray

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Posted 14 December 2019 - 17:58

Looks to be brass monkey weather, Simon. 🥴

#2882 Simon Arron

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Posted 14 December 2019 - 18:02

October in north-west England. Rarely tropical...



#2883 alansart

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Posted 14 December 2019 - 19:10

Earlier this year along the same straight, although closer to Club Corner. A Cooper S waits to head on track :)

44438768194_10fed9f881_b.jpgCooper S by Alan Raine, on Flickr



#2884 alansart

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Posted 14 December 2019 - 19:14

The odd delight also turns up for the Aintree Track Days. One of the few that allow single seaters.

48858671942_1ce6e410e8_b.jpgChevron B45 [45-78-02]_14 by Alan Raine, on Flickr

48858119673_400e9eea52_b.jpgChevron B45 [45-78-02]_11 by Alan Raine, on Flickr

48858671022_6bbe880d8c_b.jpgChevron B45 [45-78-02]_12 by Alan Raine, on Flickr



#2885 E1pix

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Posted 14 December 2019 - 19:51

Man I love that car, saw Keke throwing it 'round Road America. 

 

I even have a pic of it blowing up, but like most my racing shots it'll probably never get scanned.



#2886 SJ Lambert

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Posted 17 December 2019 - 08:05

There’s an ex Keke (I think it’s ex Keke) RT4 being restored half an hour west of my place at the moment!

#2887 elansprint72

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Posted 17 December 2019 - 17:36

The odd delight also turns up for the Aintree Track Days. One of the few that allow single seaters.

48858671942_1ce6e410e8_b.jpgChevron B45 [45-78-02]_14 by Alan Raine, on Flickr

48858119673_400e9eea52_b.jpgChevron B45 [45-78-02]_11 by Alan Raine, on Flickr

48858671022_6bbe880d8c_b.jpgChevron B45 [45-78-02]_12 by Alan Raine, on Flickr

I'll probably regret asking but... what was an Excita?


Edited by elansprint72, 17 December 2019 - 17:37.


#2888 Simon Arron

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Posted 17 December 2019 - 17:40

'Twas the North American equivalent of a Durex Surtees TS19 (or Chevron B41)...



#2889 Tim Murray

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Posted 17 December 2019 - 17:55

Available to view in the London Science Museum:

https://collection.s...condoms-condoms

#2890 E1pix

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Posted 17 December 2019 - 18:43

You are all officially on the Excita mailing list. ;-)

So far as construction, think London Fog without the belt.

#2891 elansprint72

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Posted 17 December 2019 - 19:32

I knew I shouldn't have enquired.  :)



#2892 E1pix

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Posted 17 December 2019 - 20:00

Enjoy the junk mail, El Tigre. ;-)

#2893 dwh43scale

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Posted 26 December 2019 - 17:15

I think my season is now pretty much done, David - can't do Mallory on Boxing Day as I'd promised to join the family for an alternative sporting fixture: Brentford vs Swansea City at Griffin Park.

 

I guess I might find a sporting trial if I look hard enough...

 

Well, as we stood at Mallory in the rain I wondered if we had got it right, but actually, a decent day's racing and hopefully some decent photos. Hope the game was good; by the wonders of modern technology, we listened to Radio Derby all the home.



#2894 john aston

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Posted 27 December 2019 - 07:10

Cripes - you mean your car has a wireless ? Could catch on  :drunk: 



#2895 Simon Arron

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Posted 27 December 2019 - 07:53

Well, as we stood at Mallory in the rain I wondered if we had got it right, but actually, a decent day's racing and hopefully some decent photos. Hope the game was good; by the wonders of modern technology, we listened to Radio Derby all the home.

 

Look forward to seeing the results, David. I know a lot of people complain when it rains at motorsport events, but to my mind it adds a certain something. Don't want it at every meeting, obviously, but I welcome it from time to time. Likewise hailstorms and snow...

 

Didn't take my camera to Brentford, as I wasn't sure how ground security would feel about somebody bringing in professional kit to shoot from the terraces. I did take it to Bromley vs Eastleigh the previous weekend, though, having first cleared it with the home club. I'd never previously tried shooting a football match, took only a 70-200mm f2.8, ignored the absence of natural light and turned the ISO up to 'ridiculous'. Attached sample hopefully encapsulates the spirit of top-tier non-league football during a British winter: crap weather, several Eastleigh defenders (in blue) marking nobody in particular and a Bromley player stretching in vain to get a toe to the ball. Might well try again at some point.

 

5.jpg

 

And now, back to internal combustion...



#2896 dwh43scale

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Posted 27 December 2019 - 09:58

First offering from the Plum Pudding. Martin Riman's Fiat 127 Sport - if I heard correctly a former championship winner a few years back. Cue frantic rush to "how many are there left" to see just how many 127's have survived this long (it must be about the same as the Alfa 33 seen rallying from time to time !). Slowish shutter speed, flat grey light, the slightest hint of spray. 

 

DSC-3276-fiat-small.jpg



#2897 elansprint72

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Posted 27 December 2019 - 19:54

A drive in the country. See Red, Donington Park 2009.

 

 

49283034646_56542d5811_b.jpg



#2898 elansprint72

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Posted 27 December 2019 - 22:27

Monaco 1976; good, good, good; good vibrations...  :smoking:

 

Two cars, ten wheels.

 

49283780271_e1507f3815_b.jpg


Edited by elansprint72, 27 December 2019 - 22:29.


#2899 GreenMachine

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Posted 28 December 2019 - 09:28



Look forward to seeing the results, David. I know a lot of people complain when it rains at motorsport events, but to my mind it adds a certain something. Don't want it at every meeting, obviously, but I welcome it from time to time. Likewise hailstorms and snow...

 

I agree!  The following were taken at the 2012 Bathurst 12 Hour.

 

I like this one, very atmospheric ...

IMGP0395-XL.jpg

 

 

This was as bad as it got that day

IMGP0353-XL.jpg

 

Second place leading first, for the moment.  Clearly, either the Audi driver had bigger .. err ... bells, or much better wet weather driving skills

IMGP0342-2-XL.jpg

 

I was happy to lug the camera gear around in the rain, keeping it dry(ish), for shots like these.



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#2900 Ardmore

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Posted 28 December 2019 - 19:45

Using a flash at night in the rain produces some nice effects.

 

Joseph Haider, Opel Kaddet, 1988 Rally New Zealand.

 

img047-1-2.jpg