15 replies to this topic

[Puntataco]

First of all, I apologize if this has already been discussed, I searched around and couldn't find anything that answered me completely.

Keeping in mind that in the next years we will see the introduction of the new engine, does anyone have an idea of how many changes we already had in F-1 since 1950 and when they happened?
e.g. in the end of 1994, FIA cut down from 3.5 to 3.0 liter engines.

[Wuzak]

I'll have a go...

1947-1953* 1.5l supercharged/4.5l unsupercharged
1952-53 F1 championship run to F2 regulations
1954-1960 0.75l supercharged/2.5l unsupercharged
1961-1965 1.5l unsupercharged
1966-1985 1.5l supercharged/3.0l unsupercharged
1986 1.5l supercharged
1987-1988 1.5l supercharged/3.5l unsupercharged
1989-1994 3.5l unsupercharged
1995-2000 3.0l unsupercharged
2001-2005 3.0l unsupercharged V10
2006-2012 2.4l unsupercharged V8, minimum weight, minimum CoG

*Only non-championship races used the F1 formula in 1952-53.

Edited list to correct formulae for 1986-1988.
Edited to correct 1952-1953.

Edited by Wuzak, 19 January 2011 - 01:10.

[gruntguru]

1966-1987 1.5l supercharged/3.5l unsupercharged

Typo. Edit needed here Wuzak.

It would be interesting to list all the engine variations used in each formula eg

1954 Mercedes-Benz W-196 2.5L IL8, NA, Desmodromic valve gear, DFI

[nmansellfan]

I think 1986 was 1.5l turbocharged engines only (I know no-one ran anything else, but I think the rule was that you couldn't anyway...)

[Wuzak]

Typo. Edit needed here Wuzak.

It would be interesting to list all the engine variations used in each formula eg

1954 Mercedes-Benz W-196 2.5L IL8, NA, Desmodromic valve gear, DFI

Fixed.

We can say which engine configs and manufacturer won the WDC.

For instance

1950-1951 Alfa Romeo supercharged 1.5l L8
1952-1953 Ferrari 500 F2 L4 won all champiosnhip races bar 1.
1954 Maserati 2.5l L6 unspercharged/Mercedes Benz 2.5l L8 unsupercharged
1955 Mercedes Benz 2.5 L8 unsupercharged
1956 Ferrari/Lancia 2.5 V8 unsupercharged
1957 Maserati 2.5 L6 unsupercharged
1958 Ferrari 2.4l V6 unsupercharged
1959-1960 Coventry Climax 2.5l L4
1961 Ferrari 1.5l V6
1962 BRM 1.5l V7
1963 Coventry Climax 1.5l V8
1964 Ferrari 1.5l V8 (though Ferrari had V6s, V8s and V12s Surtees used the V8)
1965 Coventry Climax 1.5l V8
1966-67 Repco 3.0l V8
1968-1974 Ford Cosworth 3.0l V8
1975 Ferrari 3.0l F12
1976 Ford Cosworth 3.0l V8
1977 Ferrari 3.0l F12
1978 Ford Cosworth 3.0l V8
1979 Ferrari 3.0l F12
1980-82 Ford Cosworth 3.0l V8
1983 BMW 1.5l L4 turbo
1984-1986 TAG 1.5l V6 turbo
1987-1988 Honda 1.5l V6 turbo
1989-1990 Honda 3.5l V10
1991 Honda 3.5l V12
1992-1993 Renault 3.5l V10
1994 Ford-Cosworth 3.5l V8
1995-1997 Renault 3.0l V10
1988-1999 Mercedes Benz 3.0l V10
2000-2004 Ferrari 3.0l V10
2005 Renault 3.0l V10
2006 Renault 2.4l V8
2007 Ferrari 2.4l V8
2008-2009 Mercedes-Benz 2.4l V8
2010 Renault 2.4l V8

[Wuzak]

Interestingly in 1991 Ferrari, Honda, Porsche and Lamborghini all supplied V12s. Honda also supplied their older V10s. Judd supplied both V8s and V10s.

12 cars ran V8s, 8 V10s and 14 had V12s.

[Puntataco]

Thank you all, this is simply great!
I remember early 95, when Ferrari raced in Brazil with their V12 and the new rules (3.0) and I remember Berger complaining really heavily about the vibrations...

[J. Edlund]

I think 1986 was 1.5l turbocharged engines only (I know no-one ran anything else, but I think the rule was that you couldn't anyway...)

Yes, 1986 was supercharged 1.5 litre only.

3.5 litre NA was allowed from 1987. Cosworth was the only one supplying such an engine that year.

[cheapracer]

3.5 litre NA was allowed from 1987. Cosworth was the only one supplying such an engine that year.

Indeed and there was 2 seperate championships for the Turbo's and the N/A engines in 1987, a fact often overlooked.

So

1987 Turbo Engines - Honda 1.5l V6 turbo
1987 Naturally Aspirated Engines. - Tyrell Ford

[Ray Bell]

Back to the list...

The F1 regulations for 1953 and 1954 were still 1.5l supercharged and 4.5l unsupercharged. But the races were run for F2 as organisers wanted larger fields (etc).

Also missing is the Indianapolis content, with Indy being a WDC scoring race up until 1960.

[Wuzak]

The F1 regulations for 1953 and 1954 were still 1.5l supercharged and 4.5l unsupercharged. But the races were run for F2 as organisers wanted larger fields (etc).

Right. No championship GPs were run to the F1 rules, but several non champiosnhip races were.

Looking at that list it sort of suggests that the new engine should be a 1.5l engine rather than a 1.6l. Small difference, I know, but the F1 regulations have specified 1.5l supercharged engines for 30 years (including 1952-1953) and unsupercharged engines for 5 years (1961-1965) out of 64 years of the F1 regulations.

[Wuzak]

Also missing is the Indianapolis content, with Indy being a WDC scoring race up until 1960.

True, but Indy was not run to F1 rules and entrants for the F1 championship rarely ran at Indy.

[Ray Bell]

Okay, so the question is purely related to F1, rather than WDC...

Which 64 years is that, by the way? I thought F1 was first regulated in 1948?

[Wuzak]

Okay, so the question is purely related to F1, rather than WDC...

Which 64 years is that, by the way? I thought F1 was first regulated in 1948?

I believe it was 1947. So 1947-2010 is 64 years inclusive.

[gruntguru]

Looking at that list it sort of suggests that the new engine should be a 1.5l engine rather than a 1.6l. Small difference, I know, but the F1 regulations have specified 1.5l supercharged engines for 30 years (including 1952-1953) and unsupercharged engines for 5 years (1961-1965) out of 64 years of the F1 regulations.

Makes a lot of sense. I'm sure a number of the last round of turbo engines could form the starting point for the new designs. (Assuming cylinder # and Bore size were free). On the other hand 1.6L is probably not a huge stretch for most 1.5L engines anyway.

[cheapracer]

On the other hand 1.6L is probably not a huge stretch for most 1.5L engines anyway.

Yeah I'm sure they left extra thick bore walls just in case the FIA bumped the rule up to 1.6 in the future.