26 replies to this topic

[David M. Kane]

Shadow lost two great drivers at Kylami in South Africa. The Tom Pryce accident was very well documented, but I never fully understand was caused Peter Revson's crash at Barbeque
Corner. Can someone help me here?

[Ray Bell]

Sorry, not coming in with an answer, but to beg correction of the spelling of 'Barbecue Bend'.
As one of the few remaining outposts in the world where the word is spelled correctly, I would love to see that spelling protected...
What year was it, so I can look up the RCN report?

[Wolf]

Ray, FORIX says he died on 22nd March 1974. His record shows entries in '74, but no non-championship races were held in RSA in '74 (only 3 NC races were held, AFAIK, in '74- one in Brasil and two in England).

[Ray Bell]

Blame Barry for this, he typed it out:
"Practice turned into a very sad affair following the death of Peter Revson during testing in number one (sic) Shadow earlier in the week. It had been intended to run official practice ont he Wednesday and Thursday, with a rest day for the drivers, if not for mechanics, on the Friday before the Saturday race. Revson's accident had, however, destroyed a long row of armco on Barbecue Bend and, by the time this was repaired, practice had to be delayed until Thursday and Friday."
That's from the race report in May's issue, but the obituary is in the April issue.
"... Former World Champion, Graham Hill, who was also testing at the time, said that it appeared as though something had broken in the front suspension of Revson's car and it had gone straight on into the armco guard rail at high speed. The car burst into flames and, although Revson was alive when freed from the flaming wreckage, he died on the way to hospital."
I don't know from what source this obit information came, but the race report was undoubtedly a condensed rewrite of the Motoring News report.
The obit may have come from MN as well, with space factors putting the race into the next issue, or there may have been newspaper and other sources quoted.
Needless to say, it was the best available information at the time, but RCN had no direct reporting from any source of these events.

[Barry Lake]

Ray

If your only source for international events is Racing Car News, with second-hand material possibly re-written by C Max Stahl - and in many cases by yourself (or even Greg McDonald) - why don't you just stay out of the thread and let people who either know, or have access to good research material answer the question?

It's a similar deal when you jump in with results from your old Monkhouse results book of the early 1950s. It was useful in its day but has been superseded on a grand scale by many researchers in the almost half a century since. The book is no longer relevant.

[Felix Muelas]

[David M. Kane]

Ray I believe you are right. Don Nichols will NOT discuss the accident, so what you have provide me is helpful. Barry lighten up.

[Ray Bell]

What strikes me, David, is that it is now some twenty hours since you posted the question. If my information would have been inadequate (I fail to accept that it would be wrong), someone with better information would have come back with more. It could still happen, but it's getting less likely...

[fines]

Ray's account is to the point, I can only add that a thunderstorm delayed practice additionally!

[Roger Clark]

motor sport May 1974 (Alan Henry, who may alsohave written the Motoring News report):

Testing DN3/1A the car in which he had taken sixth place in the Race of Champpions the sunday before, Revson crashed on the sweeping downhill right hander called Barbecue jst before the end of the mani straight. the accident occurred at a point ewhere drivers are changing from third to fourth gear and evidence suggests that the pin holding the front left wishbone to the upright broke and sent the car straight into the steel barrier at almost 90 degrees. Deny Hulme, Emerson Fittipaldi, Graham hill and Eddie Keizan all stopped to help estricate the american driver from the wrecked Shadow, but the impact inflicted fatal injuries on Revson and there was nothing they could do to help. it was significant, however, that a large number of drivers expressed a new apprehension over steel barriers and their potential dangers after this accident. There was no need for such barriers at this point, and modifications to the circuit took place before practice started, a triple-layer catch fence replacing the barrier at the scene of the accidet. Remembering how both Stewart and Cevert were saved from injury by catch fences at Crowthorne corner least year, one could not help feeling that thhhis was another case of "shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted" and can only nurture the vain hope that the latest victim of tese barriers wll at least provoke some less muddled thinking over the question of safety facilities"

No mention of fire.

[Ray Bell]

It would appear then that the Racing Car News obit was taken from the wire services.

[Rob Ryder]

Autocourse does not give a detailed account of Revson's accident, but it does include a quote from the designer giving the possible cause of the crash....

"The entry was sadly diminished by the withdrawal of the Shadow team, shattered by the fatal crash the week before of their new star driver Peter Revson. The Americen had been testing his DN3 at Kyalami when, according to the designer, he suffered "a premature failure of a ball-post" in the front suspension. The car charged a steel barrier on the outside of Barbeque Bend. Revvie was killed almost instantly."

The picture at the link below, also from 1974 Autocouerse, shows that the car definitely caught fire....

http://homepage.ntlw...tlas/revson.jpg


Rob[p][Edited by Rob Ryder on 01-14-2001]

[Mike Argetsinger]

I just have a bad reaction to this kind of photo. I felt the same way about the photo of Bandini and of Tom Pryce - and a few others that have been posted on TNF. This is not meant as a criticism of anyone - the pictures arguably answer some historical questions and therefore can be justified here. For example, I feel differently about the Ultimate Price thread. There we, in a sense, honor the lives of those who have died without exploiting them. I remember attending Revson's memorial service in Manhattan. I would rather remember the comments that day of those closest to him and my own personal interaction with the man. The pictures do trouble me. But that's my own hang up and, as I said, should not be construed as a criticism of anyone who feels differently.

[Ray Bell]

I know what you mean, Mike. I have had daydreaming nightmares (if you understand) about Pryce's accident for many years, yet it strangely enough doesn't affect me thinking about other accidents, or even having seen some fatal accidents.
While Mayer's hit me quite hard, having spent an hour with him exactly a week before, it has had no lasting impact and I can dispassionately look at pictures of the wreckage, I have been to the scene (I wasn't there when it happened) and so on.
Even Bevan Gibson's, which was horrendous and so public and so visible, that taunts me no more.
Some just hit your sensibilities, and I agree that this image is one of them. A car torn apart gives rise to images of bodies torn apart, and that is so far removed from our mental pictures of what life should be... or death.

[Rob Ryder]

Mike (and Ray)

I think I should apologise for my lack of sensitivity when posting the photograph of the Peter Revson crash to this thread.

The intention when I posted the picture, as you correctly said, was to prove the existence of a fire at the crash scene, and for no other reason.

It is easy to forget that the drivers we write about on this forum, though they are past heroes to the majority, were friends and acquaintances to some of the forum contributors. No matter how much time passes the pain of grief can still cut like a knife.

I have edited my original post to convert the image to a link. This will allow those who wish to see the picture to do so, but will allow you to follow the thread without having to see the picture in future.

I hope you approve of my edit

Rob

[Ray Bell]

Thank you, I think I would have looked at it. Seeing you take this to heart is gratifying for those who would not have wanted to.
I fully appreciate that was the purpose of the photo, and that it was necessary because of this not being mentioned in the written report.

[HistoryFan]

Originally posted by Rob Ryder

"The entry was sadly diminished by the withdrawal of the Shadow team, shattered by the fatal crash the week before of their new star driver Peter Revson. The Americen had been testing his DN3 at Kyalami when, according to the designer, he suffered "a premature failure of a ball-post" in the front suspension. The car charged a steel barrier on the outside of Barbeque Bend. Revvie was killed almost instantly."


Rob[p][Edited by Rob Ryder on 01-14-2001]

What is a "ball-post"?

[fines]

Never heard of that, but I suspect it to be a ball joint = Kugelgelenk.

[Bonde]

Ball posts are the steel balls with a shank (they look like ludo tokens or bowling pins) that are attached to the front upright (hubcarrier) top and/or bottom, forming one or both of the steering balls, with the socket being on the outboard end of the wishbone. This type of joint was used extensively in the 1970s. Nowadays we tend to use high quality proprietary spherical joints with a close tolerance bolt installed in double shear instead, a joint which last much longer and is much less susceptible to damage, but there are, of course, a lot of older cars out there still with ball posts, which should be inspected regularly. The 'nasty' thing about the ball post is that it is loaded in single shear and subjected to cantilever bending - done and maintained properly ball posts are, of course, fully satisfactory.

'Premature failure' indicates either fatigue failure of a 'lifed' component (machining quality at the transition between the conical shank and the ball and correct heat treatment depth and hardness are highly critical for fatigue life, and inadequate lubrication or galling may impose added bending loads which are not accounted for), or that the post had been somehow overstressed prior to failure. If the Shadow DN3 ball posts were lifed components (limited fatigue life with scheduled replacement), I doubt the calculated fatigue life had been reached, unless they were used DN1 components, since bespoke DN3 components would have had relatively few hours accumulated running time, DN3 being quite new at Kyalami. I can't remember, but had Revson crashed the DN3 in South America or during practise for RoC? In that case, the ball post could have been damaged in an incident earlier in the season or during pre-season testing, with the damage not being detected.


(Edited to correct grammar)

[fines]

Well, you can't beat an engineer's answer...

Seriously, thanks Anders!

[bigears]

It was a rather a grisly accident, I recall seeing an old scan of Graham Hill or Denny Hulme extinguishing the car while the other driver was standing over Peter Revson after the accident.

The Shadow was leaning upside-down against the Armco, I recall.

[Hieronymus]

Poor Revson. He was not a popular chap in SA, following some unflattery remarks he made of South Africa and the Afrikaners in his book. I am still not sure if it was Peter’s views or that of his biographer Mandel. Ironic that he died in front of the people he so much detested.

[Doug Nye]

Seems to me it is very easy to be deemed unpopular there. I recall being told by a senior team member that the part which failed on Revvie's car did so due to "cruddy machining". It was, I believe, a titanium component - difficult to machine, but equally easy to reject during inspection.

S*&t happens...and another man died.

DCN

[HistoryFan]

Originally posted by fines
Well, you can't beat an engineer's answer...

Seriously, thanks Anders!

So it is!
@Doug Nye: I heard the same!

[Dave Ware]

It's been a few years since I've re-read Revson's biography, yet I was surprised to hear that he spoke unflatteringly of South Africa, and that he detested South Africans. So I took another look. He talks about his impressions of South Africa on pages 49 and 50. He describes Johannesburg as bland. He says that the Afrikaners are "like their city, very drab." Also, "There's nothing stylish about their stores or what they sell inside." And "...their language has got to be the worst-sounding language I've ever heard."

Criticisms, yes, but minor criticisms. He describes the arpartheid situation without passing judgement . But I don't see anything in his comments to suggest that he detested the country or the people.

He was not popular in SA due to comments made in his book? He died before the book was released.

[Bonde]

Originally posted by Doug Nye:

I recall being told by a senior team member that the part which failed on Revvie's car did so due to "cruddy machining". It was, I believe, a titanium component - difficult to machine, but equally easy to reject during inspection.

To me it seems that specifying ball-posts in titanium in 1973 was aking for trouble. 'Cruddy' machining doesn't have to appear obviously flawed in notch sensitive material in a fatigue critical item.

On the subject of ball-posts: As these were used on racing cars into the 1980s, I was wondering whether a proprietary item from some road cars were sometimes used. Machining perfectly sperical and smooth bits in high grade material is best done in mass production with equipment and processes specialized for the task. Does anybody know of a road car item being used?

Also, I've never seen the DN3 item - it could be that it was just a conical/cylindrical/flanged "post" with a shoulder on it to accept a sperical joint, i.e. that there was no integral ball. Even so, a bad geometry transition or a defective thread would have had the same result.

[doc knutsen]

Originally posted by Bonde


To me it seems that specifying ball-posts in titanium in 1973 was aking for trouble. 'Cruddy' machining doesn't have to appear obviously flawed in notch sensitive material in a fatigue critical item.

On the subject of ball-posts: As these were used on racing cars into the 1980s, I was wondering whether a proprietary item from some road cars were sometimes used. Machining perfectly sperical and smooth bits in high grade material is best done in mass production with equipment and processes specialized for the task. Does anybody know of a road car item being used?

Also, I've never seen the DN3 item - it could be that it was just a conical/cylindrical/flanged "post" with a shoulder on it to accept a sperical joint, i.e. that there was no integral ball. Even so, a bad geometry transition or a defective thread would have had the same result.

If I remember correctly, the DN3 featured fabricated front uprights with the spherical joint housing in the wishbone, picking up on a conical post threaded into the upright itself (variations in length of the post would enable different geometry to be exploited) much in the same way as March used on their front uprights, on the lower joint in the case of the March design. This design, utilizing a critical joint in single shear, was in use for a long time, iirc even the Southgate Gr C Jaguars of the late Eighties using a similar design.
In the US, suspension joints in single shear was banned from the late Seventies, if my memory serves, which meant much adding of shear plates to small Formula cars imported from the UK.
Shoddy machining in a very notch-sensitive material would lead to disaster anyway, but of course in a single shear installation the limits would be that much lower.