309 replies to this topic

[alecc]

I accidentaly started an offtopic on the The RB7 - The 2011 Red Bull Racing car thread about the "popularity" of RB on this BB and generally among F1 fans. I based it on the fact, that the mentioned thread had only 7 pages where most other cars have much bigger threads with lot of discussions. But it is visible with the bare eyes, that RBR isn't the most popular team, even less popular than some of the midfielders.

There were some assumptions why it is so, shortly written most popular of them are:
-They are a new team, not established in the fans minds.
-They haven't a popular driver like Lewis, Fernando or Robert
-They are branded based on a drink

Maybe there is something in this third point? I mean, car producers, had/have a pretty big fan base, because their cars have some fans. Privaters team, gain easily fans, because their are usually the under-dogs, and it's pretty admirable, that some private guy want's to race in the pinacle of motorsports and make a challenge to the big car companies.
And there are many people who would love to drive a Ferrari or McLaren once in a live, there are many people who are fans of Williams or Sauber because that are personalities.

And now look at a drink company? Can you be a fan of a drink company? Can your dream be, to own in the future a big can of this drink? That doesn't make sense.

So IMHO it's not a matter of time, rather a matter of the brand itself, altough I can be all wrong here.
And naturally I didn't take into account the second point, I mean, if Robert would drive for RBR, IMHO I and really much much people would became RBR fans from the scratch

[Captain Tightpants]

I think their unpopularity stems from their behind-the-scenes antics last year. I don't ever recall any massive anti-Red Bull sentiment before 2010.

[Andrew Hope]

They're not British.

[Watkins74]

I have nothing against them. I think they are a top notch team.

[Disgrace]

I like them but they're ultimately boring. If Newey comes up with a dog, they'll be in the midfield like any other team.

They're also like any other team due to the fact that they buy their way to success, no different to Ferrari or McLaren but they don't share their heritage and in it's place, a team name reflecting the fact that the whole thing is a cynical marketing exercise for an energy drink.

As soon as things go wrong, Dietrich Mateschitz will pull the plug like the manufacturers and as a result, can never command a loyal fanbase. I don't recall a loyal Toyota or Honda fanbase.

Edited by Disgrace, 02 February 2011 - 02:17.

[DoodoolTalla]

their cockiness, the constant lame jokes towards ferrari especially regarding team orders (ironic), refusing to back webber at any point during the season, helmut marko, possibility of foul play regarding their car oh and having a damn fast one too:lol:

[legardP45]

I think their unpopularity stems from their behind-the-scenes antics last year. I don't ever recall any massive anti-Red Bull sentiment before 2010.

Pretty much this. I think that the issues with the front wing swap etc last year created a kind of 'webber vs red bull' perspective. A lot of people chose to side with the underdog in webber which brought the team into a position to be vilified.

[Seanspeed]

Same reason why Mclaren fans dont seem to like Ferrari. Or vice versa.

It just so happens that both Mclaren AND Ferrari fans are getting beaten up by somebody new now and most of em dont like it.

Were there a ton of Renault fans(outside of the Spanish armada) when they were winning?

[beute]

because no one thinks "f**ck yeah I love the drink, lets support a racing team named after it, even though racing has nothing to do with energy drinks"

They simply have no myth behind them, or dont have anything to do with motorsports in general.
mclaren,williams,ferrari and mercedes all have their succesfull past.

And even teams like honda, toyota, bmw have their followers simply because people love the cars,
they relate to Formula1, atleast they are car manufacturer, not a energy drink making company.


The same would have happend to brawn GP if merc would not have bought them...

TL/DR
They are a new team AND/OR they are not a car producing company.
if they keep beeing succesfull for atleast a decade and continue afterwards, they will earn mclaren/williams status.

Edited by beute, 02 February 2011 - 02:25.

[Andrew Hope]

In all seriousness, there's a ton of reasons as to why they're not as popular as plenty of other teams, I don't think there's any single excuse you could use. I know the way the team conducts their business behind the scenes annoys/bores a lot of people, I personally don't pay much attention and couldn't really give less of a **** if someone making a load of money to race Formula 1 cars for a living feels his teammate's being favored over him, but you don't have to have paid much attention to this board in the last year or so to know that among those who do care about paddock drama, Red Bull's drama leaves a particularly bad taste in a lot of peoples' mouths.

Then there is the driver factor. Neither Vettel or Webber are particularly exciting characters, though the same can be said of most of the grid, and if a group of 24 people are boring, you look like a bit of a knob singling out just two of them to moan about. For me, I don't particularly care for Vettel or Webber - I think Webber is really just lucky he's in a team capable of winning races at all, and altough I do like Vettel a bit I more like the part he plays in F1. I'm not really interested in Vettel himself, but I like that he seems to be so often cast as the villian around these parts, for daring to go toe to toe with good ol' British lads like Hamilton and Button. It's a part Alonso plays very well too, but Vettel still has a few more years to go before he reaches anything like an Alonso level of support.

I do like Red Bull as a team, though. I think you're a bit of a douche if you fault them for not having history - Ferrari, McLaren and Williams were all new teams at one point. I especially like how they have, in a very short period of time, won the two most prestigious titles in motor racing as an energy drink company. I think, in short, that Formula One is one of the most overly-nostalgic, history-obsessed sports on the face of the planet and they are very good for the sport. I wish them the best of luck in the future, because in a lot of ways F1 and its fans seem positively phobic of the future. We can't pretend Red Bull have been incredibly revolutionary in redefining what a racing team does or what it should be, but we can be happy that they continue to take steps down that road.

Edited by andrew., 02 February 2011 - 02:30.

[Jan.W]

They're not British.

Plus, their top driver is german.

[TurboF1]

Well they upset the apple cart. Seanspeed pretty much hit the nail on the head. People didnt mind Brawn GP winning much because BOTH McLaren and Ferrari were out of the running in 09, but in 2010, both traditional powerhouses got beaten by Red Bull/Newey and the majority of fans didnt like seeing it, even if they (me) respect that they've genuinely become a frontrunning team. I don't want them (or anyone else, even McLaren) to completely dominate the scene. It just gets very boring when you know someone has a massive car advantage. I'd rather they get caught up a whole lot by McL, Fezza and renault to some extent and have 4 teams able to fight for wins.




(THEN when McLaren wins it's that much sweeter lol )

[Disgrace]

I think you're a bit of a douche if you fault them for not having history - Ferrari, McLaren and Williams were all new teams at one point. I especially like how they have, in a very short period of time, won the two most prestigious titles in motor racing as an energy drink company.

I disagree. Ferrari, McLaren and Williams were all new teams. Started from scratch, their very existence being to race. Red Bull is not new: they've taken over from Jaguar, and themselves from Stewart. The team's existence is to race, as it was founded by Jackie Stewart like the aforementioned teams, but that does not include the Red Bull bankrolling and sponsorship. At birth, they were separate entities.

I think, in short, that Formula One is one of the most overly-nostalgic, history-obsessed sports on the face of the planet...

I would agree, but without it, you wouldn't get such passionate fanbases who care for the sport and get outraged by the outside meddling of forces such as the FIA.

We can't pretend Red Bull have been incredibly revolutionary in redefining what a racing team does or what it should be, but we can be happy that they continue to take steps down that road.

Indeed not; the former is another reason for the lack of a fanbase and the latter is a reason for the lack of disrespect and ill-feeling towards the team. I am personally, almost, totally ambiguous towards them because it is inevitable that the Red Bull support is finite. McLaren, Ferrari and Williams will not stop financially supporting their teams, for they are the team. Red Bull is a drinks company who support a team.

Anyway, as I said, I'm not really bothered so I'll stop there, I just didn't like the "douche" bit.

Edited by Disgrace, 02 February 2011 - 02:48.

[baddog]

They arent unpopular at all outside a small group here. Mainly seems to be Webber fans peed off that he didnt beat Vettel. A few people who never got over the whole 'red bull are a publicity stunt team who will never amount to anything' also I guess, but mainly just Webber fans and the occasional anti-german.

[FigJam]

1. No racing heritage whatsoever
2. Red Bull Racing is purely, first and foremost, a marketing project aimed at ever increasing the brand awareness and sales for the companys product
3. Their driver line-up is unpopular and boring. Slip a Hamilton or Raikkonen in one of those seats, suddenly more fans will appear.

All that said, they are a top notch team and Mateschitz has done a brilliant job, for both the F1 team and his hugely popular beverage (which I actually like, going against the general opinion of Red Bull on this board).

F1 suits the Red Bull image perfectly and DM will milk it right till the last drop. Although IMO, I would be trying to get a top driver in who suits the Red Bull image far closer than either of Vettel or Webber. One who really relates and has a big fanbase amongst the target market. Just IMO...its not a necessity though.

Edited by FigJam, 02 February 2011 - 02:54.

[krapmeister]

...Indeed not; the former is another reason for the lack of a fanbase and the latter is a reason for the lack of disrespect and ill-feeling towards the team. I am personally, almost, totally ambiguous towards them because it is inevitable that the Red Bull support is finite.

I wouldn't say it was inevitable - if Dieter is as passionite about F1 as he is supposed to be, then there is no reason why the team can't continue on even if he decides to stop branding it with the Red Bull logo.

Replacing the Red Bull logo with another companie's would be no different to what Williams, Mclaren and even Ferrari have done for years - if he could find enough sponsoship to continue funding the team then why wouldn't he?

[krapmeister]

They arent unpopular at all outside a small group here. Mainly seems to be Webber fans peed off that he didnt beat Vettel. A few people who never got over the whole 'red bull are a publicity stunt team who will never amount to anything' also I guess, but mainly just Webber fans and the occasional anti-german.

What a load of sh!t...

[Sakae]

It is myth perpetuated on this BB by small group of registered users that RBR is disliked (or liked) more than any other team. They have their following proportional to theirs historical footprint, which is perhaps smaller than Ferrari, but it could be easily understood why; no mystery here. In that context, and for the time be, the team comes second in the following among fans that drivers have.

[Disgrace]

I wouldn't say it was inevitable - if Dieter is as passionite about F1 as he is supposed to be, then there is no reason why the team can't continue on even if he decides to stop branding it with the Red Bull logo.

Replacing the Red Bull logo with another companie's would be no different to what Williams, Mclaren and even Ferrari have done for years - if he could find enough sponsoship to continue funding the team then why wouldn't he?

You're right, it's very possible. It's simply my personal opinion is that he won't, and thus, for me there's no obligation to become attached to something I perceive in the grand scheme of things (i.e decades of watching F1 to come) to be short-term. (Genuinely nice emoticon ).

Edited by Disgrace, 02 February 2011 - 02:57.

[Nobody]

Reasons I dislike RBR:
1. Vettel sh*ts me
2. Webber sh*ts me
3. Newey sh*ts me
4. Horner sh*ts me
5. Marko sh*ts me
6. Red Bull tastes yuk

If it was Coca-Cola Racing on the other hand...

As much as I dislike RBR, I HATE Ferrari.

I'm sure the feeling is mutual

[Polle]

I'm not a fan of energy drink teams... Or national teams like Force India. Or B teams like Toro Rosso and Super Aguri. Nostalgia is big in F1, and Ferrari/Mclaren fans aren't known to jump ship, especially to a cocky team with a finger sticking boy.

[underdog13]

What a load of sh!t...

Ditto

[PorcupineTroy]

I've always been torn on wether I like Red Bull or not. I like most of the drivers they employ (even Vettel), but the thought of an energy drink company winning the constructor's championship over the likes of Ferrari or Williams kind of annoys me. Plus, Helmut Marko is an ass.

[shanser]

Arrogance
in vettel and his stupid finger
horner
marko


but im sure mark webber is different and hes more likable

[ch103]

I accidentaly started an offtopic on the The RB7 - The 2011 Red Bull Racing car thread about the "popularity" of RB on this BB and generally among F1 fans. I based it on the fact, that the mentioned thread had only 7 pages where most other cars have much bigger threads with lot of discussions. But it is visible with the bare eyes, that RBR isn't the most popular team, even less popular than some of the midfielders.

There were some assumptions why it is so, shortly written most popular of them are:
-They are a new team, not established in the fans minds.
-They haven't a popular driver like Lewis, Fernando or Robert
-They are branded based on a drink

Maybe there is something in this third point? I mean, car producers, had/have a pretty big fan base, because their cars have some fans. Privaters team, gain easily fans, because their are usually the under-dogs, and it's pretty admirable, that some private guy want's to race in the pinacle of motorsports and make a challenge to the big car companies.
And there are many people who would love to drive a Ferrari or McLaren once in a live, there are many people who are fans of Williams or Sauber because that are personalities.

And now look at a drink company? Can you be a fan of a drink company? Can your dream be, to own in the future a big can of this drink? That doesn't make sense.

So IMHO it's not a matter of time, rather a matter of the brand itself, altough I can be all wrong here.
And naturally I didn't take into account the second point, I mean, if Robert would drive for RBR, IMHO I and really much much people would became RBR fans from the scratch

Newey can come off as arrogant
Horner can come off as a two faced back stabbing liar
Vettel can come off as being unjustly pampered

I respect all three - but I can see how some people would not embrace them

[TurboKeb]

There may not have as many posts as the Ferrari/Macca thread, mainly I think because they are a top team for 2 years now, there ain't a "historic" performance obligation. I think RBR fans just trust the team, as opposed to some of the historic teams fans...

I think we will talk more about RBR in the future.

In conclusion, I'm too young to know this.. was there many hype about the winning Benetton in the mid-90's? Because we could compare these two situations.

[Cenotaph]

The reason Red Bull lost popularity amongst a certain crowd last year is simple. they became too good and suddenly they were not cool anymore.

[Afterburner]

In my opinion, I think Red Bull mostly gets flak from bitter Ferrari and McLaren fans. Maybe they're disliked because in some people's eyes they've all but shattered the myth that drivers make a huge difference in F1, and those people don't like watching a sport in which, as far as they can tell, the speed of the car determines the result of a race rather than a driver's skill.

I've got no problem with Red Bull. As a matter of fact, since last year, they've become my second-favourite team in the field--kudos to the guys at the team for building a championship-winning operation in such a short time. I also admire their determination to stick with the "fair-play" policy despite the introduction of team orders--it'll be interesting to see if they hold true to their word in 2011 or if they'll show the dark side that we kept hearing about in 2010.

[FigJam]

In conclusion, I'm too young to know this.. was there many hype about the winning Benetton in the mid-90's? Because we could compare these two situations.

The hype was more all about Michael Schumacher. Benetton had key people contributing to that 2 year success and, once they left, it was soon over.

Red Bull are better than that....Newey is the key to longevity at the top.

[morrino]

Maybe if they win again this year people will start taking them seriously. They need to create some 'heritage' and be like Benetton back in those days.

[Nesto]

No one likes dominance (unless you're a supporter of the team), simple as that. Vettel's finger gets on my nerves, I've grown to like Webber whereas I didn't care for him much before, maybe cuz I want to see Vettel beaten. Sure, hes fast but he reminds me of Massa. I don't see much overtaking prowess or supreme racecraft in either but when they're on pole, they're hard to beat. Newey is fine by me but Horner gets on my nerves a bit. All this preaching of equality. Tough job for the guy but thats utter hogwash and everyone should know it. Good for them for winning both championships but they're expected to with such a dominant car. I wonder if the other teams have strived for qualifying performance over race pace in developing the new cars seeing how it was enough for RBR this past year. Then again, if the adjustable rear wing and KERS work out, qualy hopefully won't be as important.

Success doesn't always bring you adulation unless you're a cinderella story. but it only lasts for so long before others want to see you fall. If people dislike you for being successful, you're doing something right.

[KR571]

I'm not a fan of energy drink teams... Or national teams like Force India. Or B teams like Toro Rosso and Super Aguri. Nostalgia is big in F1, and Ferrari/Mclaren fans aren't known to jump ship, especially to a cocky team with a finger sticking boy.

uhh.... i don't think force india is a national team. Mallya just named it force "india" so he can get a fanbase in india and sell his product more. i believe they still do business as usual like the old team which was bought over. they r based in uk i guess. but thats just my opinion. plz correct me if i m wrong...

[WhiteBlue]

They are not unpopular. They are just not British in their national set up. It does not help them with the british dominated F1 press if one of their drivers throws dirt on them for the whole season to bend the team management to his wishes. I reckon the second driver debate will not continue this year. If the Betfair odds are anything to go by the market sees an overwhelming chance that Vettel will beat Webber easily. It would be strange if one sided reliability woes would tweak the driver table a second year running. Over time luck usually levels out. This means a rerun of the 2010 Red Bull charade should be impossible. The dog will wag the tail this year and not the other way round.

Edited by WhiteBlue, 02 February 2011 - 06:10.

[Kelateboy]

RBR does not have the racing heritage like Ferrari and McLaren. It will take a few more years of winning WDC and WCC for the average F1 fans to jump onto their bandwagon.

[KR571]

i dunno why people hate RBR for having a faster car. i thought thats what all teams strive to do i.e. to gain that unfair advantage while staying in the bounds of the rules. u can hate them for being sponsored by energy drink company and all but not for this reason. thats the whole idea of the sport.

[Ross Stonefeld]

I think partly because the team doesn't have a narrative to warm to. It's Red Bull. How exciting is that. And before then it was Jaguar, which was so corportately messed up they made Toyota look like Williams. If RBR had kept someone like JYS on in the figurehead role, as it was his original team, they'd probably have a better profile. But instead we have Christian Horner. Neither charismatic nor particularly clever. And we are given a coating of his empty quotes near on daily by this website.

[Kelateboy]

I think partly because the team doesn't have a narrative to warm to. It's Red Bull. How exciting is that. And before then it was Jaguar, which was so corportately messed up they made Toyota look like Williams. If RBR had kept someone like JYS on in the figurehead role, as it was his original team, they'd probably have a better profile. But instead we have Christian Horner. Neither charismatic nor particularly clever. And we are given a coating of his empty quotes near on daily by this website.

Give RBR a Dany Bahar and the team will be an instant F1 legend like Ferrari and McLaren.

[BigCHrome]

I don't think some of you get what TC is saying. He is asking why there arent more fans of RBR, not why McLaren/Ferrari/Merc fans don't like them.

[Captain Tightpants]

Were there a ton of Renault fans(outside of the Spanish armada) when they were winning?

Nobody liked Flavio Briatore, so any Renault fans wisely kept their heads down.

[Little Leaf]

I don't think some of you get what TC is saying. He is asking why there arent more fans of RBR, not why McLaren/Ferrari/Merc fans don't like them.

Indifference on my part. As much as I am a fan of what cars Adrian Newey produces they just don't interest me as a team.

Similar to how it was with Benetton in the mid '90's.

[gm914]

Short answer. Because everyone likes the underdog 'till the underdog starts whoopin' their boy.


I was a huge fan of StewartGP, even hollowly supported Jaguar because of Webber.
Became a Red Bull fan after Webber re-joined them, and have been ever since.

All the RBR hate I laugh at. The company has kept quite a few teams and/or drivers careers afloat for quite a few years via sponsorship before deciding to up their game and create their own team.
They kick ass. More power to them.

[Wingcommander]

Are they unpopular? That is news to me.

[f1seb]

As soon as things go wrong, Dietrich Mateschitz will pull the plug like the manufacturers and as a result, can never command a loyal fanbase. I don't recall a loyal Toyota or Honda fanbase.

Here is where I think you're wrong. Red Bull sponsors and owns plenty of ventures in the sports world that probably make no money for them. Owns 2 football clubs which most likely operate at a loss for both of them.... yet it didn't stop Dietrich for putting down even more money and build a 1st class stadium and the first one in the country specifically for the sport. Those red bull air races I doubt make any money, and not to mention the 2 F1 teams probably operate at a huge loss. Yet there is still money being pumped into them and have been for years. I consider Red Bull a privateer and for years the sport was made interesting by them, hope to see them in F1 for years to come.

Edited by f1seb, 02 February 2011 - 06:48.

[gm914]

Agreed f1seb

[Captain Tightpants]

I don't recall a loyal Toyota or Honda fanbase.

I was a Honda fan, but only because I'm a Button fan.

[motorhead]

I don´t understand the talks about RBR being especially arrogant. Just look at Ferrari. RedBull has done a good job in making a crack in Ferrari/McLaren dominance. So if RedBull is only there to advertise, so are everybody else. the teams are running with the money from advertisers. Ferrari is doing it with santander and Marlboro among others, RBR is just under one brand...

[Marbles]

I started last season as a RBR fan, but by the mid-point of last season it had become clear to me that I didn't like the people involved with RBR and certainly did not like the way it was being run. I thought RBR were an antidote to the conceit and frequent scummy behavior of the big two, but that clearly wasn't the case.

[Johnrambo]

Reasons I dislike Red Bull: -

Reasons I like Red Bull:

They are a breath of fresh air into a stale "sport"
Their drivers actually seem like likeable chaps unlike whiners at McLaren and Ferrari for example
They show that you can do it even when you don't have the shiniest factory or unlimited access to tobacco money
They do it even when they are not the favoured son of FIA

[Marbles]

Here is where I think you're wrong. Red Bull sponsors and owns plenty of ventures in the sports world that probably make no money for them. Owns 2 football clubs which most likely operate at a loss for both of them.... yet it didn't stop Dietrich for putting down even more money and build a 1st class stadium and the first one in the country specifically for the sport. Those red bull air races I doubt make any money, and not to mention the 2 F1 teams probably operate at a huge loss. Yet there is still money being pumped into them and have been for years. I consider Red Bull a privateer and for years the sport was made interesting by them, hope to see them in F1 for years to come.

I might not like their F1 team, but I can't argue with that. And if it wasn't for their F1 team's management, I would like them a lot. You can't help but admire what they do for such a wide range of sports--especially at the grass roots level.

[baddog]

its an odd thing that people just assume that Dietrich is in F1 and ever other sport to sell drinks.. never occurs to them that he might be in the drinks business so that he can do stuff like this.