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Fuzzy long-shot identity ?


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#1 arttidesco

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 23:21

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When my friend Steve Arnaudin said he has found some fuzzy reject slides in his Dad 'Ed's' loft I insisted he scan them and e-mail them to me anyway on the grounds there may well be something interesting to see.

Of the four slides taken by Ed that were sent this is the only one I am struggling with, wondering if anyone recognises the #16 vintage vehicle being driven up the pit lane at Bridgehampton 21st Sept 1957 ?

Thanking you in anticipation of your responses :-)

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#2 Tim Murray

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 23:40

I think it may well be the famous Locomobile 'Old 16' that won the 1908 Vanderbilt Cup in the hands of George Robertson. The car was later owned by the famous motoring artist Peter Helck; it may well be him driving it in the photo.

#3 Doug Nye

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 23:45

Beat me to it - Robertson's Old No 16 probably when still owned by Helck.

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 04 February 2011 - 23:46.


#4 Tim Murray

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 23:51

Nice Youtube clip of the beast running:



#5 arttidesco

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Posted 05 February 2011 - 00:00

I'm speechless, thanks Tim & Doug and there I was thinking I'd get no response for a week or two ! :up:

#6 Tim Murray

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Posted 05 February 2011 - 00:24

On the link below there's a great photo of Robertson with all four wheels off the ground during the 1908 Vanderbilt race:

http://www.vanderbil...omobile_16_1908

#7 arttidesco

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Posted 05 February 2011 - 00:40

On the link below there's a great photo of Robertson with all four wheels off the ground during the 1908 Vanderbilt race:

http://www.vanderbil...omobile_16_1908


That's crazy look at all those suicide jocks lining along the road !

The 1908 Vanderbuilt Cup sounds like one heck of a race to have missed. :wave:

#8 arttidesco

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Posted 05 February 2011 - 11:12

Steve asked me to pass on this message :-

"That's incredible!

Your contacts' automotive trivia knowledge is mind-boggling, to say the least.

Thanks again for tracking down this Old 16 info. I never would have guessed that could be identified."

To which I can only add my own thanks :up:

#9 Marticelli

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Posted 05 February 2011 - 17:06

What I find even more incredible is that Robertson's Locomobile was running in the 'under 1200 kgs class' and he drove nearly 260 miles in well under 5 hours averaging about 54 mph. It is impressive how fast and reliable cars became so soon after their introduction..

Marticelli

PS Old No 16 is also one of the undoubted stars of Peter Helck's book, Great Auto Races, which I commend to others interested in the early days of racing.

#10 Doug Nye

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Posted 05 February 2011 - 17:36

Your contacts' automotive trivia knowledge is mind-boggling, to say the least.


It moght be trivia to you mate but it's meat and drink for some of us... :smoking:

DCN

#11 arttidesco

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Posted 05 February 2011 - 18:35

It moght be trivia to you mate but it's meat and drink for some of us... :smoking:

DCN


I don't think any offence was intended Doug :rolleyes:

#12 Marticelli

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Posted 05 February 2011 - 21:00

On the link below there's a great photo of Robertson with all four wheels off the ground during the 1908 Vanderbilt race:

http://www.vanderbil...omobile_16_1908

Having looked hard at this website, I can see I misread the detail on the Vanderbilt Cup medal, which makes the speed recorded by Robertson over 64mph not 54mph, as he finished in almost exactly 4 hours not the nearly 5 I first thought - even more impressive!

Marticelli


#13 arttidesco

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Posted 05 February 2011 - 23:01

Having looked hard at this website, I can see I misread the detail on the Vanderbilt Cup medal, which makes the speed recorded by Robertson over 64mph not 54mph, as he finished in almost exactly 4 hours not the nearly 5 I first thought - even more impressive!

Marticelli


With no seat belts and I would imagine rear brakes only :eek:

#14 D-Type

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Posted 05 February 2011 - 23:24

The same applies to all the early races, including the inter-city ones. Unsurfaced roads. Rear wheel brakes. Primitive suspension. And the dust was dried up horse whatsit and if it rained it was no longer dried up!

#15 arttidesco

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Posted 06 February 2011 - 01:02

And the dust was dried up horse whatsit and if it rained it was no longer dried up!


Is that why motorists back then were always advised to wear a thick coat & goggles ?

More interesting pics of the 1908 Vanderbuilt Cup.

#16 arttidesco

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Posted 07 February 2011 - 20:21

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Since the last one was so easy I thought I'd try my luck one more time with one of Ed's photo's, this time we are at Thompson Conneticut 20th July 1957 as Race One gets under way.

With the aid of Ed's photographs, Terry O' Neils Northeast American Sports Car Races 1950 to 1959 and racing sports cars .com I have been able to make a probable list of entries on the grid as follows :-

Row 1 #15 R Nerney, Abarth 207A Spider, #12 Floyd Aaskov Lotus X1
Row 2 # 42/52/62 ??? #28 N Falcone, Jomar 7 C 105
Row 3 # ????? #26 L Bastruo Lotus IX
Row 4 # ????? #27 P Sagan, Fiat Abarth 750 GT Zagato
Row 5 #95 J Iglehart, Nardi MD4 Spyder #46 J Mull D B Panhard # ?????? # ?????

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But I am struggling with the rest particularly this red vehicle running what looks like a #42 on the front and a #52 or #62 on the side, numbers of which none appear close to any records I can find.

Finally I have seen several photographs from Thompson CT featuring the flag man in shorts does anyone know his name ?

I have refrained from altering these images in photoshop for fear of loosing valuable information if you wish to enhance the images and re post be my guest.

Thanking you in anticipation of your responses :-)

Edit PS rsc.com lists a 'Walter Cronkite' as a driver can this be possibly be the News anchor of the same name ?

Edited by arttidesco, 07 February 2011 - 20:25.


#17 Vitesse2

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Posted 07 February 2011 - 20:41

Edit PS rsc.com lists a 'Walter Cronkite' as a driver can this be possibly be the News anchor of the same name ?

Not just possibly, but definitely. He was a prominent member of the Madison Avenue Sports Car and Chowder Society. (That'll give you something else to explore!)

#18 arttidesco

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Posted 07 February 2011 - 20:49

Not just possibly, but definitely. He was a prominent member of the Madison Avenue Sports Car and Chowder Society. (That'll give you something else to explore!)


:up: :drunk: :rotfl: :cat: :stoned: :eek: :confused: I'll let you know how I get on V2 :smoking:;)

#19 fbarrett

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Posted 08 February 2011 - 02:04

Wait a minute! Not so fast! Where and when was the Locomobile shot? Almost certainly a U.S. venue, maybe within spitting distance of Boston Corners (Helck's home) but not Lime Rock. Is that a lake in the background?

Frank

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#20 Rob G

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Posted 08 February 2011 - 05:17

Wait a minute! Not so fast! Where and when was the Locomobile shot? Almost certainly a U.S. venue, maybe within spitting distance of Boston Corners (Helck's home) but not Lime Rock. Is that a lake in the background?

Frank

It's Bridgehampton.

#21 raceannouncer2003

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Posted 08 February 2011 - 07:04

For the Thompson race photo, I believe the red car is #92, Nick Falcone's Jomar and #28 is Ray Saidel's Jomar. See these links:

http://www.racingspo...958-07-20ge.jpg

and if you Google "Nick Falcone" and "Jomar", you should find a photo in "Vintage American Road Racing Cars 1950-1969" By Harold Pace, Mark R. Brinker

Also, ????? on the third row looks to me like a Cooper, presumably Paul Bleustein as his was the only Cooper on the entry list.

Vince H.

#22 arttidesco

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Posted 08 February 2011 - 10:00

Wait a minute! Not so fast! Where and when was the Locomobile shot? Almost certainly a U.S. venue, maybe within spitting distance of Boston Corners (Helck's home) but not Lime Rock. Is that a lake in the background?

Frank


at Bridgehampton 21st Sept 1957 ?

:wave:



#23 arttidesco

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Posted 08 February 2011 - 10:17

For the Thompson race photo, I believe the red car is #92, Nick Falcone's Jomar and #28 is Ray Saidel's Jomar. See these links:

http://www.racingspo...958-07-20ge.jpg

and if you Google "Nick Falcone" and "Jomar", you should find a photo in "Vintage American Road Racing Cars 1950-1969" By Harold Pace, Mark R. Brinker

Also, ????? on the third row looks to me like a Cooper, presumably Paul Bleustein as his was the only Cooper on the entry list.

Vince H.


Can't see the wood for the trees Vince thanks for the #92 ID, I have booked an appointment with an optician :cool:

#24 Bauble

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Posted 08 February 2011 - 10:51

Far right of picture is a Ferrari Barchetta?

#25 arttidesco

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Posted 08 February 2011 - 14:30

Far right of picture is a Ferrari Barchetta?


Howdy Bob nice to see you back on the forum :up:

Race 1 at Thompson CT on the 20 July 1958 was for the old class G up to 1100 cc and H up to 750cc vehicles, did Ferrari ever make a vehicle with an engine that small ?

We have written in period documentation that the #15 is R Nerney, Abarth 207A Spider.

#26 Bauble

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Posted 08 February 2011 - 16:26

Howdy Bob nice to see you back on the forum :up:

Race 1 at Thompson CT on the 20 July 1958 was for the old class G up to 1100 cc and H up to 750cc vehicles, did Ferrari ever make a vehicle with an engine that small ?

We have written in period documentation that the #15 is R Nerney, Abarth 207A Spider.


Well when posting I had no idea of the capacities involved, so I must be wrong - but it does look like one.

Nice to see me back? I didn't know you cared!

#27 ye52026

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Posted 08 February 2011 - 20:34

Hi, not often I can come up with anything of value, but I think the car at the far right could be a Siata 300BC. It looked a lot like the Touringbodied barchettas, and the Siata was build with 1100 cc engines,
- Jens

#28 arttidesco

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Posted 08 February 2011 - 22:34

Well when posting I had no idea of the capacities involved, so I must be wrong - but it does look like one.

Nice to see me back? I didn't know you cared!


My bad for not letting slip the capacities :blush:

Always looking out for your highly esteemed point of view Bob :up:

#29 arttidesco

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Posted 08 February 2011 - 22:42

Hi, not often I can come up with anything of value, but I think the car at the far right could be a Siata 300BC. It looked a lot like the Touringbodied barchettas, and the Siata was build with 1100 cc engines,
- Jens


If Google is correct then the 300 BC was available for 1100cc class G or 750 cc class H the entry list that raceanouncer2003 eluded to has a #75 Siata 750 for Donald Mark does anyone know if his car was red ?

#30 arttidesco

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 10:01

Posted Image

Following the success of establishing the identities of the subjects of the first two photographs I posted on this thread I wonder if I might be pushing the boat out too far in asking if anybody recognises the owner of this 1950 Cadillac Series 61 Sedan (?) and hound parked in the paddock at Lime Rock May 9th 1959 behind William Wonders #16 AC Bristol and possibly a Lotus XI ?

Thanking you in anticipation of your responses.

Edited Just found out that this is a series 75 Cadillac but 1950 is the correct model year :blush:

Edited by arttidesco, 12 February 2011 - 12:14.


#31 Bauble

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 13:13

Posted Image

Following the success of establishing the identities of the subjects of the first two photographs I posted on this thread I wonder if I might be pushing the boat out too far in asking if anybody recognises the owner of this 1950 Cadillac Series 61 Sedan (?) and hound parked in the paddock at Lime Rock May 9th 1959 behind William Wonders #16 AC Bristol and possibly a Lotus XI ?

Thanking you in anticipation of your responses.

Edited Just found out that this is a series 75 Cadillac but 1950 is the correct model year :blush:


Could be Lassie!

#32 D-Type

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 14:40

Could be Lassie!

Ner! Lassie was a collie and the owner of the Cadillac is a German shepherd!


#33 Vitesse2

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 15:08

It's probably Rin-Tin-Tin then ...

#34 arttidesco

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 15:34

I knew I had to be barking to ask ! :rolleyes:

#35 Bauble

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 19:20

I knew I had to be barking to ask ! :rolleyes:


Art,
It serves you right if we wander 'off topic' here! What a silly question to ask! Who owns this Cadillac?

Who do you think you are? DCN? :wave:

#36 arttidesco

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 19:28

Art,
It serves you right if we wander 'off topic' here! What a silly question to ask! Who owns this Cadillac?

Who do you think you are? DCN? :wave:



Nothing ventured nothing gained Bauble it's always worth a try, it would not surprise me in the least if someday someone pops in to TNF and asks about his grandfather who raced in the 50's and used a 1950 Cadillac Series 75 Fleetwood Limousine as his towing vehicle that was famous because it also carried a great dane ! :wave:

Fortunately DCN has nothing to worry about I have not become dependant on motor racing for 'meat and drink'.... yet, but I might be working on it :cool:

#37 kento11

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 21:15

Just thought I would throw in another Bridgehampton car, this one taken by me in 1968 at a Can Am meeting there ??

Posted Image

#38 Vitesse2

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 12:11

Going back to Old #16, David Greenlees' "Old Motor" blog has a feature on it today:

http://theoldmotor.com/?tag=old-16

Do check out the rest of the blog too - there's some fascinating stuff there!

#39 Maldwyn

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 12:35

It moght be trivia to you mate but it's meat and drink for some of us... :smoking:

DCN

Tony Hancock fan Doug? ("It may be only a smear to you but it's life and death to some poor wretch.")

Edited by Maldwyn, 25 February 2011 - 12:36.