61 replies to this topic

[GMACKIE]

At the suggestion of cooper997, I am starting this thread. For the last 50 or so years I've been 'mucking about' with VWs. Most of my records of the early '60s, except a couple of photos, have gone, but perhaps there is something 'out there' on the subject?

Cheers, Greg Mackie

Edited by GMACKIE, 19 February 2011 - 02:31.

[Terry Walker]

Let's go:

1965 Six Hour Le Mans, Caversham Western Australia. Two VWs start. Don and Judith Baker, No 23, and Warren Matthews and Lou Orton, No 22. First pic shows tailenders getting away after traditional LeMans Start.



No 22 Matthews/Orton resting in the bush:



The Bakers finished 15th, 122 laps; the Matthews/Orton car went out on lap 41.

[cooper997]

Good stuff Greg & Terry.

Those Caversham tyre markers in the second photo must have helped a few cars end up resembling the VW's condition on occasion. Just for a light dig, good to see the 997 Cooper in the top photo too.

Ray English where are you?... there's Mk1 Sprites.

Stephen

[Terry Walker]

Mini Cooper No 42: De Klerk / Cliff, finished 13th, 176 laps. The other Mini Cooper, Capelli/Rick Lisle, did 188 laps, finished 7th, is well away, out of that photo, with a further Cooper S, Ted Lisle in a 1071 S, came 5th at 193 laps. Spencer Martin/David Mackay won, Ferrari 250LM, 223 laps.

I understand, and Warren Matthews will doubtless correct me if I'm wrong, that the very special, hot, 1500cc engine from the rolled VW Beetle became the power behind Lou Orton's legendary VW Spl single seater, a sort of Formula Libre Formula Vee, which surfaced a year or so later.

Edited by Terry Walker, 19 February 2011 - 02:41.

[ken devine]

Terry mentioned Lou Ortons VW based special.





Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[cooper997]

Ken,

That's an armchair of a race seat in the Orton's VW special.

Terry,
Thanks for the extra info on that 1965 Caversham 6 hour photo. Event date was Monday June 7th, 1965 if I've done my homework properly.

Stephen

[275 GTB-4]

Let's go:

1965 Six Hour Le Mans, Caversham Western Australia. Two VWs start. Don and Judith Baker, No 23, and Warren Matthews and Lou Orton, No 22. First pic shows tailenders getting away after traditional LeMans Start.

"Some car this Simca!"...how did the Renno 750 go???

[Terry Walker]

Ta-Da!

Pos No Drivers Car Laps

1 1 Spencer Martin/David Mackay Ferrari 223
2 2 Ron Thorp AC Cobra 211
3 5 Vic Watson/Dave Sullivan Hurricane V8 200
4 7 Max McCrackan/Vin Smith Lotus Elite 200
5 33 Ted Lisle Mini Cooper S 193
6 17 J Bavera MG B 189
7 36 P Capelli/Rick Lisle Mini Cooper 188
8 14 Bill Dickson Holden 186
9 12 Paul Wilkins/Roger Fielding Triumph TR4 184
10 35 M Butt/G Glatz Cortina 184
11 39 Stuart Kostera/Derek Fletcher Anglia 183
12 37 J Piesse/H Van der Straaten Holden 180
13 42 H de Klerk/M Cliff Mini Cooper 176
14 34 Ross Urquhart/Craig McAllister Cortina 170
15 40 John Hughes/D Black Holden 168
16 44 Leon Shenton/Terry Cunliffe Simca 166
17 9 Bob Biltoft/Ron Miller Porsche 166
18 25 Gary Griffiths Sprite 159
19 4 Jeff Dunkerton Lotus Super 7 132
20 29 J Lewis/G Abbott Holden 130
21 23 Don Baker/Judith Baker VW 122
22 18 R Britton/Tony Barlow MG A 1600 121
23 30 Dick Roberts Valiant 119
24 15 John Bertina/G Abbott Holden 114

DNF 26 Nev McBeth/Dick Ward Sprite 167
DNF 32 Owen Stringer/Mike Tighe Cortina GT 152
DNF 11 Rod Donovan Holden 83
DNF 6 Rod Waller/Lionel Beattie Repco Holden Spts 73
DNF 22 Warren Matthews/Lou Orton VW 40
DNF 24 Rod Slater/Don Noack Renault 750 29
DNF 21 J Maloney/L Taylor Triumph Spitfire 27
DNF 8 Derek Vince/Jack Ayres Elfin 27
DNF 43 D Black/Jim Brewer Vauxhall Viva 17
DNF 10 John Glasson Atalantis 13
DNF 38 Don O’Sullivan/R McDowell Cortina GT 6

[GMACKIE]

One thing that I remember about racing the VW in the early '60s, was that there were no other Beetles to dice with. There were plenty of Minis, Peugeots, Simcas, etc.

One day though, at Warwick Farm, a green Beetle from Victoria - driver, George Reynolds - turned up. I had decided that there was no hope of staying with this purpose-built race car, in my daily-driver, but had a go anyway and stayed with him until we hit the main [Hume?] straight. The green car pulled away in top gear, and that was it.

Jack Bono, the GURU, told me that George's car must have a 'low' 4th gear. As the Appendix J rules didn't allow non-standard gear ratios, I [politely] asked "Does your car have a low top gear, George?" He replied, "Yes", and - as if ready for the question - produced genuine Volkswagen parts book, showing the optional 1:1 4th gear. When I wanted to copy the part number down, he quickly closed the book, and told me that they only made one! George was sponsored by Volkswagen Australia.

[David Shaw]

I do autocross with my mate in his potent Superbug, and when the Deniliquin track was brought into the series we ran out of revs in 3rd but found that there was too big a gap to top to be useful. The next time we appeared there he had located and fitted a lower 4th that he had located. Made the world of difference.

[DanTra2858]

Greg, I have some photos of early VW Competing at Huntley Hill Climb in the early 1960, did you compete there at all?

[GMACKIE]

Greg, I have some photos of early VW Competing at Huntley Hill Climb in the early 1960, did you compete there at all?

Not to sure, but late '60s, yes. Any chance of sending email copies? greg@kirrapak.com

[ellrosso]

We had a few Beetles racing in Tassy in the mid - late 60's, at least 4 I know of and one of our photographers, Geoff Harrisson, was one of them. We have shots on the oldracephotos website of 3 at least (Bessant, Keating and Morrell). There was also Lewis Bush's VW Rotary from the late 70's. There was also Darryl Reid's Speedway Beetle which raced at Richmond in '68 (shot of that in Speedway category). He was one of our top rally drivers at that time.
Of course I must mention Robin Bessant's red Beetle which was generally regarded as the quickest around in the mid 60's. He had a lot of success with it in Tas.
Had a fully worked Okrasa motor and disc brakes on the front from memory.

[Terry Walker]

Murray Thomas / Tim Garrett shared this VW in the 1971 Six Hour, Wanneroo Park, 209 laps, 17th outright. Murray at the wheel.



Bob Biltoft's 2-litre VW, which he shared with Mike Barnes from time to time in the late 1970s. Not reliable.



Geoff Moran raced a VW throughout the 1974 season at Wanneroo, in the Sports Sedan category. Possibly other seaosns too, I haven't checked.

[Ray Bell]

And the Pat Crea/Darrylyn Huitt car...

Ran for a couple of years in Sports Sedans quite successfully. It had a 2.2-litre engine with fat heads etc, and I note in looking that up that in 1971 there were no fewer than four VWs in one race at Calder.

Pat Crea, Don and Barry Coutts and George Reynolds.

[GMACKIE]

And the Pat Crea/Darrylyn Huitt car...

Ran for a couple of years in Sports Sedans quite successfully. It had a 2.2-litre engine with fat heads etc, and I note in looking that up that in 1971 there were no fewer than four VWs in one race at Calder.

Pat Crea, Don and Barry Coutts and George Reynolds.

The Crea/Huitt VW had a P 76 [or Rover?] V8 hanging out the back, later! That would have been a LOT of fun.

Terry Quartly
Kevin Fisher
Ray Berghouse [ yes, THAT Ray Berghouse ]
Jack Bono [ probably the 1st in Oz - 1955 ]
Doug Chivas
Theo Borrer
Greg Cusack

[brucemoxon]

Factory-supported entries at the early Armstrong 500s. There was the class win mentioned above (Barry Ferguson having tipped the Mini 850 into the fence with a lap to go). I think there was a three-car team at a Phillip Island race.

And the dealer-entered 1500 Notchback at Bathurst for Garry Campbell and Gerard Murphy.

How about rallying? A very popular choice for a long time. Ross Dunkerton was a notable VW rallyer in WA in his early days. Eddie Perkins, and most notably Laurie Whitehead's win in the 1955 Redex.

I see a nice VW on the road these days and think... Then I stop and think. Let's face it, they're a 1935 design, Bruce!

Greg, is your old Sports Sedan still sitting in the window at Gladesville?




Bruce Moxon

Edited by brucemoxon, 20 February 2011 - 21:09.

[DanTra2858]

Not to sure, but late '60s, yes. Any chance of sending email copies? greg@kirrapak.com

VW competing at Huntley Hill Climb in 1960/61, the two tone car looks like a 40 by the back window while the other is a 36 horsepower model.

Sorry to say I can not remember who the drivers are or any of their times, but enjoy.

[GMACKIE]

Nice to see those photos. Both cars are 36hp - small windows & semaphores. I don't know who they are, either.

Bruce, my old sports sedan has been there for 30 odd years. He bought the car just after I had won the under 2 litre Comalco series at Amaroo in 1981, and promptly did nothing with it.

Edited by GMACKIE, 20 February 2011 - 21:56.

[Ian G]

I've posted this before but probaly best belongs in this thread.Barry Lloyd -VW 1960 PI.

[brucemoxon]

VW competing at Huntley Hill Climb in 1960/61, the two tone car looks like a 40 by the back window while the other is a 36 horsepower model.

Sorry to say I can not remember who the drivers are or any of their times, but enjoy.

Gee, it looked pretty different last time I was there. More trees and stuff. I guess the VWs would struggle to be competitive at a fast, 'power' hill like Huntley. In my Holden Gemini I was just holding it flat in second all the way up - it wouldn't pull in third!

I'd imagine hillclimbing a standard 36hp Beetle would be an exercise in patience!




Bruce Moxon

[Ray Bell]

They're probably not standard, Bruce...

They've probably taken the baffles out of the muffler and slipped the aircleaner out.

[DanTra2858]

They're probably not standard, Bruce...

They've probably taken the baffles out of the muffler and slipped the aircleaner out.

Good one Ray, do you also think that they would remove the fan belt for a run of about 50 seconds, how much more power would produce??????

[GMACKIE]

Good one Ray, do you also think that they would remove the fan belt for a run of about 50 seconds, how much more power would produce??????

Around 7hp, which is around 20% I've done it, but don't tell anyone.

[DanTra2858]

Around 7hp, which is around 20% I've done it, but don't tell anyone.

My, my how the truth comes out.

[DanTra2858]

Huntley Hill Climb ROUND 3 NSW HILLCLIMB CHAMPIONSHIP, 12-4-1987

Nestled behind my Cortina is the VW of Barry Noble, it is running a 1835cc motor his best time being 32.63 sec. and 8th in Class.

[Lola5000]

anyone heard of a Brian harris that raced a VW in the 60s at Calder?

[GeoffR]

How about rallying? A very popular choice for a long time.

Particularly in Tasmania, up until the mid '70s at least. This example had a 2 litre engine with a lot of 'good bits', including twin Webers.

[Ray Bell]

Good numberplate for a Peugeot 504TI there... or a BMW 2002Ti...

I thought this thread was started to differentiate between rally VWs and racing VWs, not to get them together again?

[onelung]

Somebody out there has some shots of South Australia's Ken Virgin,I hope...?
A VW legend in this state...

[ken devine]

A couple of VWs mix with a Renault Dauphine and a MGTF.





Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[Lee Nicolle]

Somebody out there has some shots of South Australia's Ken Virgin,I hope...?
A VW legend in this state...

I had one where Glen [Kens son] turned up to the drags with the VW covered in mud from a rally the previous night. I cannot find it, it has disapeared from my album.
Ken Virgin, The Millers and Keith Poole in particular had some very quick VWs.

[DanTra2858]

Greg, back in the mid 1960 what type of engine modifications would one be running on a VW to make them compeditive & were German / American Speed equipment used or was it mostly Australian gear.

[GMACKIE]

Greg, back in the mid 1960 what type of engine modifications would one be running on a VW to make them compeditive & were German / American Speed equipment used or was it mostly Australian gear.

Talk about uncanny, I was asked that question earlier today. Strangely, most of the details are still 'in my head', and having just gone through the exercise, I should remember most of it.

Jack Bono built the engine, in exchange for body work on his 356 racer. The 40HP engine was new in Australia [Jan,1961], so Jack was breaking new ground. There was no 'off-the-shelf' bits about that would suit the Appendix J [touring car] rules, so it was a case of - with the help Jack's mates, namely Merv Waggott, Lionel Jones, etc., - modifying the stock VW bits.The main engine components, under the rules, had to be stock. Metal could be removed from the 'block' and heads, but NOT added.

Crank was 'too soft' according to Lionel, so he ground it, had the journals chrome-hardened, and re-ground it. Merv didn't like the oil-ways, so he re-drilled them!

Merv also ground the cam [Porsche 356 profile], and stellited the followers.

Lionel Jones bored the cylinders to 80mm, and modified Ford pistons to suit. This brought the capacity up to 1286cc.

Jack Bono opened up the inlet ports, and fitted 1 1/4" valves, exhaust were standard size. Compression was 8.5 : 1, to run on pump fuel - this was my only car, and I needed to drive it to work [and everywhere else].

My job was to modify the 'tinware', make the inlet and exhaust manifolds, etc, and modify a pair of SUs to fit under the engine lid.

It showed 68 HP on Frank Kleinig's dyno.

[DanTra2858]

Talk about uncanny, I was asked that question earlier today. Strangely, most of the details are still 'in my head', and having just gone through the exercise, I should remember most of it.

Jack Bono built the engine, in exchange for body work on his 356 racer. The 40HP engine was new in Australia [Jan,1961], so Jack was breaking new ground. There was no 'off-the-shelf' bits about that would suit the Appendix J [touring car] rules, so it was a case of - with the help Jack's mates, namely Merv Waggott, Lionel Jones, etc., - modifying the stock VW bits.The main engine components, under the rules, had to be stock. Metal could be removed from the 'block' and heads, but NOT added.

Crank was 'too soft' according to Lionel, so he ground it, had the journals chrome-hardened, and re-ground it. Merv didn't like the oil-ways, so he re-drilled them!

Merv also ground the cam [Porsche 356 profile], and stellited the followers.

Lionel Jones bored the cylinders to 80mm, and modified Ford pistons to suit. This brought the capacity up to 1286cc.

Jack Bono opened up the inlet ports, and fitted 1 1/4" valves, exhaust were standard size. Compression was 8.5 : 1, to run on pump fuel - this was my only car, and I needed to drive it to work [and everywhere else].

My job was to modify the 'tinware', make the inlet and exhaust manifolds, etc, and modify a pair of SUs to fit under the engine lid.

It showed 68 HP on Frank Kleinig's dyno.

Thanks Greg,

What a story, the closest that I came to anything VW was when I purchased the SM Special of Spike Jones less his 1600cc motor but with a 36hp motor that we then modified, it had a lightened flywheel standard bore but the top of the pistons ie. the ring area was machined to a smaller diameter to stop siezing as the car did not run any fan.

The Camshaft was modified to a Triumph Motor cycle grind due to the offeset camfollowers by the late Clem Jones of Wollongong & the car was running 2 Holden Carbs but with Adjustable Main Jets plus extractors.

In this combination I was lucky to win the under 1500cc Racing class at Huntley Hill on 1-6-1969 with a time of 32.57

Can not remember if we raised the compression or not but it was my first scary moments of glory in a open wheeler.




i

[Jacer]

Talk about uncanny, I was asked that question earlier today. Strangely, most of the details are still 'in my head', and having just gone through the exercise, I should remember most of it.

Jack Bono built the engine, in exchange for body work on his 356 racer. The 40HP engine was new in Australia [Jan,1961], so Jack was breaking new ground. There was no 'off-the-shelf' bits about that would suit the Appendix J [touring car] rules, so it was a case of - with the help Jack's mates, namely Merv Waggott, Lionel Jones, etc., - modifying the stock VW bits.The main engine components, under the rules, had to be stock. Metal could be removed from the 'block' and heads, but NOT added.

Crank was 'too soft' according to Lionel, so he ground it, had the journals chrome-hardened, and re-ground it. Merv didn't like the oil-ways, so he re-drilled them!

Merv also ground the cam [Porsche 356 profile], and stellited the followers.

Lionel Jones bored the cylinders to 80mm, and modified Ford pistons to suit. This brought the capacity up to 1286cc.

Jack Bono opened up the inlet ports, and fitted 1 1/4" valves, exhaust were standard size. Compression was 8.5 : 1, to run on pump fuel - this was my only car, and I needed to drive it to work [and everywhere else].

My job was to modify the 'tinware', make the inlet and exhaust manifolds, etc, and modify a pair of SUs to fit under the engine lid.

It showed 68 HP on Frank Kleinig's dyno.

Lionel Jones. There's a guy who knew his stuff.

[GeoffR]

In the early '70s there were two brothers by the name of Thompson (I think) who ran a servo/garage in Mildura. They both had beetles, one white & the other orange, with all sorts of 'mystical' VW gear - twin port heads, roller bearing cranks (did they exist then?), twin downdraught Webers etc, the list was long.
Both road registered but they did drag race them with a huge megaphone exhaust, and they were quick over the eighth and quarter mile, like V8 quick!

[David Shaw]

All that weight over the rear helps them launch rather well.

[Warren Matthews]

Mini Cooper No 42: De Klerk / Cliff, finished 13th, 176 laps. The other Mini Cooper, Capelli/Rick Lisle, did 188 laps, finished 7th, is well away, out of that photo, with a further Cooper S, Ted Lisle in a 1071 S, came 5th at 193 laps. Spencer Martin/David Mackay won, Ferrari 250LM, 223 laps.

I understand, and Warren Matthews will doubtless correct me if I'm wrong, that the very special, hot, 1500cc engine from the rolled VW Beetle became the power behind Lou Orton's legendary VW Spl single seater, a sort of Formula Libre Formula Vee, which surfaced a year or so later.

Spot on Terry-it was a very quick and very strong car

-------------

[john medley]

Nice comment, Jacer -- from someone like you....

What of those amazing VW engines in speedway midgets? What details?

And it is clear, Greg Mackie and others that plenty of VWs more recent than those early J Bono/ Lionel Jones etc cars were remarkably quick. What info have you on them?

Side story: towing home from Adelaide, racing car on the back, devil-may-care and my Holden V8 thingie going as hard as it could go across the Hay Plains I was ( eventually) overtaken by a squat wide wheeled VW Kombi, orange in colour if I recall correctly, which I had been watching for a long time in the mirrors. Despite touching 3 figure mph speeds at times, this thing just mowed me down, and went by contemptuously without a sign of being bothered or interested in the chase -- and making the most serious of exhaust noises. The knowledgeable Monday experts later told me it had to have "had a 2 litre in it": what did they do to road VWs back then (my Holden probably still feels embarrassed about the experience)?

[eldougo]

...Oran Park 1967 .

...Sandown 1963.

Brian Sampson Lancer,George Reynolds VW,Peter Manton Mini.

...Mallala 1963.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Edited by eldougo, 03 March 2011 - 08:20.

[Warren Matthews]

Margaret Matthews and Judith Baker raced an Okrasa modded VW in 1963 6 Hour Caversham WA.
Believed to be first woman's team to compete in long distance race in Australia

Photo from West Australian/Daily News-they are examining disc brake fitted to Beetle- ATE I think




Brian Lemon was first to race VW in WA from memory

------

Edited by Warren Matthews, 03 March 2011 - 09:56.

[GMACKIE]

Recently, cooper997 sent me a scan copy of my Beetle in a Neptune advert in a 1963 programme. [thanks Steve]. When I noticed that the windscreen wipers were on, it reminded me of a funny incident at scrutineering on the Saturday.

After doing the paperwork, the scrutineer, Mr Carmody [can't remember his first name - Tom?] ventured out into the rain to check the car out. On the way out of the shed, he questioned my sanity when he saw the VW. On seeing the Michelin X tyres on the car, he remarked "Anyone who would race a VW inthe rain, with Michelins, should be locked away". I managed 2 class wins, and a class record that day.

Edited by GMACKIE, 03 March 2011 - 20:26.

[GeoffR]

Side story: towing home from Adelaide, racing car on the back, devil-may-care and my Holden V8 thingie going as hard as it could go across the Hay Plains I was ( eventually) overtaken by a squat wide wheeled VW Kombi, orange in colour if I recall correctly, which I had been watching for a long time in the mirrors. Despite touching 3 figure mph speeds at times, this thing just mowed me down, and went by contemptuously without a sign of being bothered or interested in the chase -- and making the most serious of exhaust noises. The knowledgeable Monday experts later told me it had to have "had a 2 litre in it": what did they do to road VWs back then (my Holden probably still feels embarrassed about the experience)?

I've had this experience from the other side of the fence, in the VW in post 28 above. Assembly stage in a BP Rally of Tas from Hobart to Perth (Tas) comfortably sitting on 90/95 mph and mowing down Holdens, Falcons, Valiants etc. The pilot was a crazy German who kept muttering "Aussie ****" with each one we passed!

[timbo]

The only racing V.W. photo's I could find,


Uploaded with ImageShack.us


Uploaded with ImageShack.us


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[brucemoxon]

The only racing V.W. photo's I could find,
[/url]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

What a mix of 1300 and 1500 panels!



Bruce Moxon

[Jacer]

What a mix of 1300 and 1500 panels!



Bruce Moxon

flat windscreen = 's' bug, round tail lights and blinkers in the front bumpers indicate pos '76 1300 shell unless of course it's an early superbug with late rear guards and bumpers but the 6 volt style headlights are very much a ring in. If it was late 1300 it would have swing axle rear which wouldn't be your first choice of weapon so early 's' bug 1600 with add ons would be my guess.

[cooper997]

VW entries at Sandown International Meeting, March 10th & 11th 1963.

Event 4 Bill Patterson Motors Trophy under 1600cc Touring Car Scratch Race - 5 laps.

1001-1300cc
#14 R G (Geoff) Hood VW White 1298 Vic
#19 G (George) Reynolds VW Green 1296 Vic
#42 C E (Ted) Brewster VW Green 1290 Vic
#44 P J (Pat) Crea VW Blue 1299 Vic

This race was won by Peter Manton #12 Mini Cooper, 2nd - Brian Sampson #32 Austin Lancer, 3rd - George Reynolds #19 VW.

They were also in Event 14, being another 5 lap scratch race. This was won by Sampson, followed by Reynolds and Manton.

The Sports Car World photo Eldougo posted above will be from one of these races. Probably the later.

Ted Brewster swapped to Mini Coopers the following year and will be running his still #42 Cooper S (but not same car) in the Group N races at Phillip Island Historics over the weekend of March 18-20, 2011. He raced Torana XU1 in the early 1970s, and ran in RX3 at Bathurst in the mid to late 1970s. Before going back to Minis in the early days of Group N. Bob Holden has about 3 years on Ted age-wise.

Stephen

[timbo]

I found one more, this from a round of the NSW Hillclimb Championship at Eastern Creek.


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[MKI220]

I am assuming this did not survive? I recall seeing the shell for sale back in the late 80's.