26 replies to this topic

[OultonPark65]

820 Quantell Cosworth. Can any one help, I am scanning all my old slides and negatives trying to name them all, have hit a problem with this one, didn't update programme that day, Brands Hatch 1986 October PowerBike meeting. Rider in programme is listed as Aussie Rob Phillis, I think it could have been Paul Lewis, the guy on left in glasses was with the team, can anyone help?

Edited by OultonPark65, 26 February 2011 - 18:52.

[peterd]

Chap on the left is Bob Graves, the owner of the bike.

[Mick Robinson]

820 Quantell Cosworth. Can any one help, I am scanning all my old slides and negatives trying to name them all, have hit a problem with this one, didn't update programme that day, Brands Hatch 1986 October PowerBike meeting. Rider in programme is listed as Aussie Rob Phillis, I think it could have been Paul Lewis, the guy on left in glasses was with the team, can anyone help?

Rob Philis rode the bike at Daytona but not sure about Brands, it would have been either Paul Lewis or possibly Gary Noel who I think crashed it in practice, I'll be speaking to Bob Graves soon so I'll ask the question. Here are some shots of said bike:
http://www.msrphotog...o_page_473.html
http://www.msrphotog...o_page_472.html
http://www.msrphotog...o_page_471.html

[OultonPark65]

Thanks Guys much appreciated.

[zxrman]

Didn't John Pace ride the Quantel Cosworth at some point ? Not sure if it was this meeting or not ?

[OultonPark65]

Not sure about John Pace, Roger Marshall rode it at Mallory in 1988, have a photo of him at the hairpin.

[peterd]

Just had a big catch-up with Gary Flood, the unassuming Australian genius who built the Cossie. He says John Pace never rode the bike, but remembers Rob Phillis riding it at Brands in testing before Daytona in 1987. Paul Lewis was the first to race the Cossie and Roger Marshall the last, though Phil Read later trundled it out at Goodwood.

[OultonPark65]

Been looking back through photo's and programme, Paul Lewis was on the Skoal Bandit Suzuki that weekend, so it must have been Rob on the bike. I have found some more photo's, when I've gone through them hopefully there might be one of the bike on track. Thanks for your help will update if I find something.

[dommieracer]

Hi, i have a pic of the cosworth at brands for a classic meeting as it was being riden in the parade by roger marshall. Standing looking at it is john surtees. I will hunt it out and post it on here.

Kevin

[ravenous25]

I'm pretty sure it was Rob that rode the bike - he came about 8th in the Powerbike International race. Lewis was riding the Skoal Bandit Suzuki in the same race but he did have earlier outings on the bike, possibly the year before.

I'm pretty sure I have a pic somewhere so will have a look for it this evening.

[ravenous25]

Just did a search on the net for images of Rob and there's one here - definitely him on the Cosworth (and not Lewis)

[ravenous25]

1986 Powerbike International result:

1 Roger Burnett (Rothmans Honda)
2 Roger Marshall (Rothmans Honda)
3 PAUL LEWIS (SKOAL BANDIT SUZUKI)
4 Paul Iddon (Skoal Bandit Suzuki)
5 Peter Dalby (Brands Hatch Racing Suzuki)
6 Gerry Mahaffy (Suzuki)
7 Simon Buckmaster (Duckhams Honda)
8 ROB PHILLIS (QUANTEL COSWORTH)

[ravenous25]

Here's one of Paul on the bike - European Battle of the Twins, Mallory Park, 1985

[Rennmax]

After reading an article written by Phillip Tooth about the Norton Challenger in the current German 'Klassik Motorrad' mag where the Quantel Cosworth as it's successor is not mentioned at all I would like to shed some light on the successes of the Quantel. As far as I know, Paul Lewis finished runner-up to Marco Luccinelli on a aircooled 2 valve Ducati at Daytona in 86 and Roger Marshall won ahead Stefano Caracchi on the then brand new liquid-cooled 4 valve Ducati at Daytona in '88. Correct ?
Were there more outstanding successes in races and/or championships ? And the crucial question: what turned the not competitive Challenger of the seventies into a winner a decade later ? I know they were competing in the BOT class then and not against the two-strokes. Nevertheless, the bike seemed much better than the original one. Due to fundamental technical changes or what ? Thanks for your input gents.

Edited by Rennmax, 31 March 2011 - 07:12.

[GD66]

As alluded to by Peter D above, it really wasn't until Gary Flood got involved and Bob Graves tipped in some $$$ that the thing went any good at all. Mick R has mentioned he'll be seeing Bob Graves soon, so he may be able to shed further light. I seem to recall from the time that Gary maybe junked the fuel injection and whacked a set of Mk 2 Amal smoothbores or something similar onto it and it began to improve, also the handling had to be tidied up. Plus there was never a longterm pilot, although many of those who rode it gave it a good crack. I recall Alan Cathcart always spoke about it with a certain affection and admiration for the work put into its' eventual success.

[peterd]

I'll try to add some more details. Little while ago now, and this recall is based on memory of a story I wrote for Classic Racer in the mid 80s, so apologies if it's a bit woolly. Bob Graves came across the Challenger engine (there may have been two) unloved and gathering dust at the Cosworth factory. At the time, Bob was a director of Cosworth and big mates with Keith Duckworth. Cosworth had long given up on the engine. In fact, Keith wanted nothing to do with it. It was built to Norton specs and carried the compromise of the fading company's internal politics. Keith probably even helped Bob load the engine into his car, with the parting words that whatever Bob did with it, he didn't want it called a Cosworth. That's where Gary came in. He'd been spannering (and rebuilding) for Paul Lewis, and Bob, through another sponsor, had chipped in some money to run what was a very quick and reilable RGB500. I think Bob was impressed with Gary's no-nonsense practicality; the way he quietly thought through a problem then got it sorted. And the pair could talk for what seemed like hours over the minutest of tech details! The starting point for the Cossie was the dimension of the Suzuki RGB chassis; wheelbase, rake, trail. After all, that worked. Of course, the Exactweld boys then came up with something special. Quantel was also fortunate to have a company plane, and as one of the company owners, Bob put it to good use. A quick trip to Holland to see White Power, a day return to Italy and talks with Dell'Orto, etc. Essentially, Bob left it in Gary's hands as to what he thought would make the bike a winner . . . and where he wanted to fly to! In this sense, it was never going to be a Challenger Mk2. No, the Quantel legend is a simple story of a couple of unassuming blokes working out of a Surrey garage. Just happened that one of them had a large wallet and the other extraordinary engineering skills, and together they shared a single-minded determination and vision . . .

Glenn, you really must stick a mic in front of Gary the next time you're over at Phillip Island. He reckons he can't type, so uses that excuse for not putting anything to print! I know there are lots more stories that haven't been told. And some that can't be printed. The bottom line of course is that the Quantel is truly unique and no-one is ever likely to emulate what Bob Graves did.


Oh, hang on, is that a Hesketh lump under that horse blanket . . .

[GD66]

Ripper, nice work, Peter !

As far as getting Gary on the mic, from the few chats I've had with him it seems he never uses twenty words when one will suffice... , but I'll give it a lash...

Edited by GD66, 31 March 2011 - 10:54.

[sidecarracing]

The Quantel-Cosworth...one of my favourite racebikes of all-time...

...big question for me is: where is it now?!

Anyone who knows?

[peterd]

I think Bob Graves still owns it, though I understand he has had some serious enquiries about selling it. See earlier in this thread for links to Mick Robinson's superb pix.

[Rennmax]

Sorry for pestering again, but I'm still seeking details in regard to race results and any technical issues concerning the 'transition' from the Challenger to the Quantel. Any documentation, literature etc. available referring to this topic ? Thanks for any hint.

Edited by Rennmax, 08 April 2011 - 06:25.

[Mick Robinson]

Sorry for pestering again, but I'm still seeking details in regard to race results and any technical issues concerning the 'transition' from the Challenger to the Quantel. Any documentation, literature etc. available referring to this topic ? Thanks for any hint.

Hi Rennmax, If you email me via my website contact I can mail you text from an article on said bike published in an Italian magazine, written by a friend of mine very recently, it wont give loads of tech data but will give you some idea of the project from start to finish!

Regards Mick

[Rennmax]

Thanks a lot Mick

[Herr Wankel]

Thanks a lot Mick

Don't know if this has already been said on here Renn,but I'm sure I read that Crox commented that when you closed the throttle there was no 'over-run'.Like slamming the back brake on. (or has the merlot got to me again)

HW

[stuavant]

Don't know if this has already been said on here Renn,but I'm sure I read that Crox commented that when you closed the throttle there was no 'over-run'.Like slamming the back brake on. (or has the merlot got to me again)

HW

Yep its the Merlot

[Herr Wankel]

Yep its the Merlot

Thought as much Stu

HW

[Rennmax]

Don't know if this has already been said on here Renn,but I'm sure I read that Crox commented that when you closed the throttle there was no 'over-run'.Like slamming the back brake on. (or has the merlot got to me again)

HW

Strange indeed... I read that the crankshaft had nearly twice the weight of a Commando crank though still missing a centre bearing, so I think the rear wheel stalling wasn't caused by lack of flywheel mass ?

Edited by Rennmax, 09 April 2011 - 09:39.

[Rennmax]

Another Cosworth engine which, for whatever reason, didn't propel the bike to the expected success. Sadly no 'Quantel' style 2nd attempt in sight ....