24 replies to this topic

[HistoryFan]

Joe Saward and BBC report that the Renault engines at Red Bull will be called Infiniti in 2011. Infiniti is a luxery market of Nissan, which of Renault ownes 43,5%.

So, what about Nissan in Formula racing?

In Formula One there were two times rumours about Nissan entering F1: 1997 with Arrows as Walkinshaw worked with Nissan at sports car, and 2006.

In IndyCar there were Nissan engines from 1997 until 2002. Any details about that engines?

Then we had Nissan engines in Formula Pacific. Any details about the engines and possible winners with Nissan engines?

And of cours there was the Nissan Formula World Series, now called Formula World Series by Renault.

Any more?

[David McKinney]

Then we had Nissan engines in Formula Pacific. Any details about the engines and possible winners with Nissan engines?

They would have won in FP (or the equivalent) in Japan - probably when still called Datsuns. Dave McMillan raced a Ralt RT1 with Datsun engine in NZ around 1982, but by then the RT4s were on the scene and I don't think it won anything. I did get to drive it once in a test session at Timaru though - can still hear the noise of it winding up down the back straight

[Catalina Park]

I seen to remember Glen Seton running in a couple of Australian Formula Two races in an RT4 with a Nissan motor in the 80s.

[HistoryFan]

Thank you.

Any technical details?

[Amphicar]

Thank you.

Any technical details?

Here are the specs for the Infiniti Indy Car engine in its original 4 litre incarnation:

Engine type 90 degree V-8, water-cooled, cast-aluminum block and heads
Bore x stroke, in./mm 3.66x2.89/93 x 73.6
Displacement, ci/cc 243.2/3999
Compression ratio 14.5:1
Valve gear DOHC, 4 valve/cyl.
Fuel/induction system Multipoint EFI
Horsepower, hp @ rpm, SAE net 730 @ 10,300
Torque, lb-ft @ rpm, SAE net 385 @ 8500
Horsepower/liter 183
Redline, rpm 10,300
Fuel Methanol

[HistoryFan]

Thanks.

[Amphicar]

Nissan developed the LZ14 and LZ16 engines for Formula Pacific. You can find out a bit more about these engines here

[PS30-SB]

Nissan's A-series OHV engines were raced in Japanese domestic single seater 'Formula' competition in the early Seventies, mainly in FJ1300, but also in Japanese F3.

Just off the top of my head, an example would be Nissan works driver Masami KUWASHIMA's ride in the 1971 'Japan Grand Prix' meeting. This was a Brabham BT16 chassis, fitted with a Tomei tuned Nissan A12, called a "Sunny Brabham", and entered - somewhat backhandedly - by Nissan's own 'SCCN' team. He came home 14th and last.

They would have won in FP (or the equivalent) in Japan - probably when still called Datsuns....

They were - almost - always Nissan when raced in Japan.

[Jesper O. Hansen]

At around 1990 Nissan was also running a formula 3 engine programme - mainly in Japan, as I remember.

Jesper

[HistoryFan]

Thank you guys.

I will try to find out more with your information.

[Ross Stonefeld]

I think there have been occasional Nissan engines in Japan F3 in the last few years with ThreeBond.

Also the IRL engines were badged as Infinitis and mostly handled by independent tuners, as all IRL engines were during that era.

[HistoryFan]

Formula Pacific wins:

Tsukuba 1978: Masahiro Hasemi (Chevron Nissan)
Fuji 1978: Masahiro Hasemi (Chevron Nissan)
Tsukuba 1978: Takao Wada (Tomei Jidosha; Nova Nissan)
Tsukuba 1978: Masahiro Hasemi (Chevron Nissan)
Suzuka 1978: Masahiro Hasemi (Chevron Nissan)
Tsukuba 1979: Masahiro Hasemi (Chevron Nissan)
Tsukuba 1979: Masahiro Hasemi (Chevron Nissan)
Fuji 1979: Takao Wada (Tomei Jidosha; March Nissan)
Tsukuba 1979: Kazuyoshi Hoshino (Chevron Nissan)
Tsukuba 1979: Satoru Nakajima (Chevron Nissan)
Suzuka 1979: Kenji Takahashi (Tomei Jidosha; Nova Nissan)
Suzuka 1980: Masahiro Hasemi (Hasemi; Chevron Nissan)
Tsukuba 1980: Masahiro Hasemi (Hasemi; Chevron Nissan)
Tsukuba 1980: Masahiro Hasemi (Hasemi; March Nissan)
Tsukuba 1980: Masahiro Hasemi (Hasemi; March Nissan)
Sugo 1980: Masahiro Hasemi (Hasemi; March Nissan)
Suzuka 1980: Masahiro Hasemi (Hasemi; March Nissan)

IndyCar wins:
Pikes Peak 2000: Eddie Cheever (Cheever; Dallara Nissan)
Kansas 2001: Eddie Cheever (Cheever; Dallara Nissan)
Michigan 2002: Tomas Scheckter (Cheever; Dallara Nissan)

[Amphicar]

The engine currently used in Formula Renault 3.5 is actually a Nissan VQ35.



A neat parallel to the Renault F1 engines in this year's Red Bull RB7s being re-badged as Infinitis

[Ross Stonefeld]

Interestingly, though strangely, the Red Bull engines won't be rebadged but the cars will carry Infiniti branding in the sense of a normal sponsor relationship.

[flightlessbird]

I seen to remember Glen Seton running in a couple of Australian Formula Two races in an RT4 with a Nissan motor in the 80s.

It was advertised for sale the other day

[flightlessbird]

Thank you.

Any technical details?

E series engine

[Amphicar]

Interestingly, though strangely, the Red Bull engines won't be rebadged but the cars will carry Infiniti branding in the sense of a normal sponsor relationship.

Yes it is odd, particularly as the VQ35 engines used in Formula Renault 3.5 are re-badged. Infiniti are spinning it as "being genuine" but I wonder if the real reason is an FIA objection to the same engine running with two names in the same series. It has happened in the past in F1 - between 1998 and 2000 Benetton rebadged its Mecachrome/Supertec engines as "Playlife" but Williams, Arrows and BAR continued to use the Mecachrome/Supertec name. That was before limitations on engine development and the Resource Restriction Agreement though - perhaps there were worries about Renault/Infiniti having two bites of the cherry?

[Ross Stonefeld]

I don't think so, as we also had Ferrari and 'Petronas' engines in the past. Rebadging is at the discretion of the engine supplier.

As for Infiniti 'genuiness' remember that it's the Nissan being rebadged a a Renault in the World Series, not the other way

Previously it was Open Fortuna Nissan, then when it added a few races outside of Spain became World Series by Nissan. At the same time Renault Sport was running Formula Super Renault as the WTCC support act pre-2005. So when they combined the series they used the Dallara-Nissan car, but the Formula Super Renault calendar and other bits, giving us the current World Series by Renault, which is a full Renault Sport effort.

It's certainly a better justification than something like GP2, which are Renault badged Meccachromes but the engine itself I think is an old Mader BMW?

[ghinzani]

It's certainly a better justification than something like GP2, which are Renault badged Meccachromes but the engine itself I think is an old Mader BMW?

Go on?

[Catalina Park]

It was advertised for sale the other day

Where was it advertised?

[Ross Stonefeld]

Go on?

This is basically what I was told when GP2 started so the information is a 6 year old memory so I can't say 100% it's accurate because I may not be remembering it correnctly.

However.

They wanted a long life engine. So at least the first engine/gearbox combo was a BMW endurance engine, I think that Mader had originally done. Now maybe that's just the block, maybe it's the whole thing, I don't know. But that was the starting point that Meccachrome went from and Renault put their stamp on. Not Renault Sport, however.

Amusingly the GP2 is a 4.0 V8, which was the old IRL engine spec, and this would have been a late 90s early 00s sportscar engine originally. So are GP2 cars running around on the BMW IRL engine that never went anywhere?

[LRT24]

Looks like there was a lone Tomei-tuned Nissan engine in JF3 last year (as an aside, that series really looks to be hurting for numbers ). The Renault World Series in Spain used to be the Nissan World Series, though I don't really consider a spec series to be "formula" racing. It certainly wasn't nearly as highly regarded back then.

[Amphicar]

This is basically what I was told when GP2 started so the information is a 6 year old memory so I can't say 100% it's accurate because I may not be remembering it correnctly.

However.

They wanted a long life engine. So at least the first engine/gearbox combo was a BMW endurance engine, I think that Mader had originally done. Now maybe that's just the block, maybe it's the whole thing, I don't know. But that was the starting point that Meccachrome went from and Renault put their stamp on. Not Renault Sport, however.

Amusingly the GP2 is a 4.0 V8, which was the old IRL engine spec, and this would have been a late 90s early 00s sportscar engine originally. So are GP2 cars running around on the BMW IRL engine that never went anywhere?

I've seen the "GP2 Mecachrome/Renault engine is really a BMW" claim in several motorsport forums but not in any "official" source. It could be true or it might be one of those persistent internet myths. Whatever its origins were, the Mecachrome GP2 engine was also used (sleeved-down to 3.4 litres) in an LMP2 Courage C65 run by Noël del Bello Racing in 2005.

[flightlessbird]

Where was it advertised?

My105 .com

[rateus]

Don't forget Nissan have built an F1-legal engine, at the time when the FIA was forcing sportscars down the F1 engine route in the early 1990s. The 3.5L V12 was, as far as I can recall, only intended for sportscars but one was shoehorned into the back of a Lola CART chassis for testing purposes.