18 replies to this topic

[jimjimjeroo]

Just been watching the 2002 Japanese GP and saw the McNish crash where his car went through the arm co barrier!



Sorry about the poor picture, but I've never seen this in F1 before only been watching since 1994 are there many other similar cases?

[LB]

Sadly yes, Francois Cevert and Helmuth Koinegg both went through/under barriers in their fatal accidents.

There is a picture of Clay Regazzoni at Monaco that defies belief from F3 I believe, I'll have a search in a minute.

http://forums.overcl....php?p=16516865 has the sequence.

Then of course theres Kubica but that was more the other way round.

Edited by LB, 01 March 2011 - 18:49.

[gio66]

Sadly yes, Francois Cevert and Helmuth Koinegg both went through/under barriers in their fatal accidents.

Giovanni Salvati too (F3).

Edited by gio66, 01 March 2011 - 18:42.

[Andrew Hope]

Armco single-handedly murdered quite a few drivers in various kinds of racing in the years following it becoming widely implemented at circuits. Nostalgia Forumers would know a lot more about it than I would, though. Watkins Glen alone claimed a life in both the 1973 and 1974 F1 GPs, and you can make the argument that both Francois Cevert and Helmuth Koinigg would've survived their accidents had the armco not been there at all. Drivers being decapitated or facing a number of other grim ends due to armco (and many other factors, to be fair) was far from unheard of - Koinnig was one, Gerry Birrell I believe is another, and I know there are more. I think it was Clay Regazzoni who had a very lucky escape in a similar accident at Monaco, when his car went under the armco barrier.

I've often wondered if drivers actually liked the armco when it began to show up at every major circuit. Smacking into a barrier is in theory much better than rocketing off into trees or a field or down a ravine or into a building, but not so much if that barrier is essentially razor blades, prone to falling apart in any serious impact, or even worse, sinking into the ground and catapulting a car back onto the track, which had rather tragic consequences in the Dutch GP of 1973 and fortunately with much less serious consequences at Brands Hatch last year. It's almost comical how dangerous armco can be, when you think about how safe it's supposed to be.

McNish was a lucky boy. I'm sure I've seen plenty of pictures of accidents leaving gaping holes in armco but I can't think of any with a particularly happy ending at the moment. Some other people around here will definitely be able to, though.

EDIT: Googled 'Regazzoni armco' and find one of my own posts from two years ago on the subject..









And as a bonus, sometimes these accidents really do have happy endings - John Love at Kyalami in 1971.

Edited by andrew., 01 March 2011 - 18:52.

[kamikaze1]

Jochen Rindt's car pierced the barrier too.

[Teapot]

In the 1971 Bathurst 1000 Bill Brown rolled his car over the armco, which literally cut in two the bodywork from the roof down, at cockpit level: the driver amazingly escaped from the wreckage with only minor injuries. The car ended up upside down, perched atop the barrier, and in the process almost wiped out a marshall. There should be a video of the crash somewhere around the net...

[David M. Kane]

Brett Hawthorne F2

[FlatOverCrest]

Robert Kubica is not a huge fan of armco barrier either!

[midgrid]

In the 1971 Bathurst 1000 Bill Brown rolled his car over the armco, which literally cut in two the bodywork from the roof down, at cockpit level: the driver amazingly escaped from the wreckage with only minor injuries. The car ended up upside down, perched atop the barrier, and in the process almost wiped out a marshall. There should be a video of the crash somewhere around the net...

Here. And a lucky spectator, as well.

More recently, Paolo Barilla left a big hole in the armco when he crashed at Eau Rouge during the 1990 Belgian Grand Prix. He was unhurt.

Edited by midgrid, 01 March 2011 - 20:30.

[Andy865]

I just googled Barrila after something clicked when i read his name there. I had no idea he had anything to do with the massive pasta company! Its a funny world!

[gio66]

I just googled Barrila after something clicked when i read his name there. I had no idea he had anything to do with the massive pasta company! Its a funny world!

He's one of the sons of the king of pasta.

Next year probably will attend the historic F3 GP in Monaco.

[917k]

It seems impossible to believe that Clay actually survived that shunt, unless the armco popped up the very instant he slid under it. Lucky boy.

[Villes Gilleneuve]

Depaillier at Hockenheim.

[Kop Alonso]

I remeber Ronnie Peterson & Giles Villenueve having a bad one in Japan in 1978 & the Ferrari cleared the barrier & I believe a spectator was killed ...

[FlatOverCrest]

Unfortuntely it can often also make a crash worse if it does not deform enough....remember this shunt with the Seats at Brands?



It never ceases to amaze me at how close the marshall in the hat came to having the car land right on his head! Some very quick movement saved his backside! A big to all volunteer marshalls that give their time at weekends so that others can play!

[Crafty]

Unfortuntely it can often also make a crash worse if it does not deform enough....remember this shunt with the Seats at Brands?



It never ceases to amaze me at how close the marshall in the hat came to having the car land right on his head! Some very quick movement saved his backside! A big to all volunteer marshalls that give their time at weekends so that others can play!

Holy crap, not seen that before, looks to be between Sheene and Stirlings ? thats a fairly quick part of the track but I'm amazed how it got air as it hit the armco.

[cheapracer]

Unfortuntely it can often also make a crash worse if it does not deform enough....remember this shunt with the Seats at Brands?

I wouldn't have a hope of finding it from here but in the early '80's a V8 (Can Am'ish) Sports Car had a jammed throttle up the back straight of the old short Calder track in Oz and the brakes couldn't overcome the power so with the fronts locked up the guy went straight on into the armco at 90degrees to it at probably 140mph and the deformation was incredible and took all the energy away and the guy walked away, well limped actually. How far the armco stretched just has to be seen to be believed.

If anyone can find it on Youtube it is quite an amazing crash (ABC TV, Sports Cars at Calder raceway).

[Villes Gilleneuve]

I remeber Ronnie Peterson & Giles Villenueve having a bad one in Japan in 1978 & the Ferrari cleared the barrier & I believe a spectator was killed ...

But the spectator was in an area that he wasn't supposed to be in.

[Altitude]

Most of the incidents quoted highlight bad installation of the armco, resulting in it creating gaps between the layers, or cars going underneath the barriers. The Peterson/Villeneuve accident at Fuji, and the Seat one at Brands Hatch both saw cars vaulting the barriers, (like McNish did himself at Donington in 1990).
The accident that Allan McNish suffered at Suzuka is the only time that I can recall a car actually punching its way through an armco barrier without the barrier mountings appearing to fail in some way.