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#1 August

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Posted 04 April 2011 - 12:20

Does anybody know the rules for naming an F1 race. Malaysian GP is this year Malaysia GP. Do the rules say there must be the name of the hosting area in some form. In 1999-2003 the Canadian GP was called Grand Prix Air Canada but no other races (except for Caesars Palace) have been named after their sponsor. Was that possible for Canada, as Canada was in the sponsor's name. And does the name necessarily have to include 'Grand Prix' in some language? Indy 500 was Indy 500 and in MotoGP we have Assen TT.

And by the way, if there are any Hungarians here or even Hungarian speking people. Does Nagydij mean great prize, or are there more suitable translations? In Finnish we commonly don't translate Grand Prix but in fact we have an own word for it. The pre-war Finnish Grand Prix (better known as Eläintarhan ajot, the Race of the Zoo in english) was called Suomen Suurajot (Finnish Grand Race). Besides that the word Suurajot was also used in Rally Jyväskylä's (current Rally Finland) former name, Jyväskylän Suurajot.

Edited by August, 04 April 2011 - 12:21.


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#2 Ruf

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Posted 04 April 2011 - 12:27

Does anybody know the rules for naming an F1 race. Malaysian GP is this year Malaysia GP. Do the rules say there must be the name of the hosting area in some form. In 1999-2003 the Canadian GP was called Grand Prix Air Canada but no other races (except for Caesars Palace) have been named after their sponsor. Was that possible for Canada, as Canada was in the sponsor's name. And does the name necessarily have to include 'Grand Prix' in some language? Indy 500 was Indy 500 and in MotoGP we have Assen TT.

And by the way, if there are any Hungarians here or even Hungarian speking people. Does Nagydij mean great prize, or are there more suitable translations? In Finnish we commonly don't translate Grand Prix but in fact we have an own word for it. The pre-war Finnish Grand Prix (better known as Eläintarhan ajot, the Race of the Zoo in english) was called Suomen suurajot (Finnish Grand Race). Besides that the word suurajot was also used in Rally Jyväskylä's (current Rally Finland) former name, Jyväskylän Suurajot.

All of them include event's sponsor name and the country name. Australian GP full name is Qantas Australian Grand Prix, Sepang is Petronas Malaysia GP, Hungaroring is ENI Magyar Nagydíj (you guessed right , Nagydíj means Grand Prix) etc.

Edited by Ruf, 04 April 2011 - 12:37.


#3 senamic

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Posted 04 April 2011 - 12:34

All of them include event's sponsor name and the country name. Australian GP full name is Quantas Australian Grand Prix, Sepang is Petronas Malaysia GP, Hungaroring is ENI Magyar Nagydíj (you guessed right , Nagydíj means Grand Prix) etc.


Sorry to be pedantic, but Qantas (formerly QANTAS), not Quantas. But you are correct, possibly with the exception of Monte Carlo, as I do not remember them having an event sponsor (could be wrong, have a hunch on Martini if I am incorrect).

Edited by senamic, 05 April 2011 - 04:57.


#4 chdphd

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Posted 04 April 2011 - 12:36

This page has all the full names of this year's races: http://www.formula1....s/calendar.html

#5 Ruf

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Posted 04 April 2011 - 12:40

:p

Sorry to be pedantic, but Qantas (formerly QUANTAS), not Quantas. But you are correct, possibly with the exception of Monte Carlo, as I do not remember them having an event sponsor (could be wrong, have a hunch on Martini if I am incorrect).

Typo, I fixed it. Thank you. :blush:

#6 August

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Posted 04 April 2011 - 12:53

All of them include event's sponsor name and the country name. Australian GP full name is Qantas Australian Grand Prix, Sepang is Petronas Malaysia GP, Hungaroring is ENI Magyar Nagydíj (you guessed right , Nagydíj means Grand Prix) etc.


But what I was asking was whether the area name is mandatory, the sponsor name definitely isn't. I assume it's mandatory as otherwise we'd definitely have Santander Grand Prix, maybe even more than one. And must the races be called as GPs or GPs translations like Nagydíj or Großer Preis?

And still about Nagydíj. Noticed from Wikipedia that Cannes film festival prize Grand Prix is in Hungarian Nagydíj, too. But do you, or someone else, know which word(s) it is derived from and what does that word mean?

Edited by August, 04 April 2011 - 12:56.


#7 kismet

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Posted 04 April 2011 - 12:54

Over here at Nitpickers Anonymous, many a linguistic muscle has indeed been pulled due to the travesty that is the shockingly inconsistent naming of Formula One Grands Prix.

#8 August

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Posted 04 April 2011 - 13:08

Noticed from web dictionary. Nagydíj is nagy (=great) and díj (=prize) written together. Didn't assume it's two words written together.

Over here at Nitpickers Anonymous, many a linguistic muscle has indeed been pulled due to the travesty that is the shockingly inconsistent naming of Formula One Grands Prix.


I'm just wondering how come naming events only with their sponsor's name hasn't (luckily) started in F1.

#9 dau

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Posted 04 April 2011 - 13:14

Sorry to be pedantic, but Qantas (formerly QUANTAS), not Quantas. But you are correct, possibly with the exception of Monte Carlo, as I do not remember them having an event sponsor (could be wrong, have a hunch on Martini if I am incorrect).

Ha! :D

#10 kismet

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Posted 04 April 2011 - 14:31

I'm just wondering how come naming events only with their sponsor's name hasn't (luckily) started in F1.

Oh, I wasn't having a go at you or this thread. I really have been wondering about GP names and their lack of consistency. Why Petronas Malaysia Grand Prix instead of Petronas Malaysian Grand Prix which would be consistent with the rest of the <Sponsor> Grands Prix? Why Grand Prix of Europe instead of European Grand Prix? Etcetera. I appreciate these are silly little things to concern myself with but I could pick nits for Finland when I'm bored enough. So there! :lol:

#11 CONOSUR

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Posted 04 April 2011 - 14:49

Over here at Nitpickers Anonymous, many a linguistic muscle has indeed been pulled due to the travesty that is the shockingly inconsistent naming of Formula One Grands Prix.

:lol: :up:

They should all be named Grand Prix of (Country/Continent).




:cool:

Edited by CONOSUR, 04 April 2011 - 14:52.


#12 August

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Posted 04 April 2011 - 16:54

Oh, I wasn't having a go at you or this thread. I really have been wondering about GP names and their lack of consistency. Why Petronas Malaysia Grand Prix instead of Petronas Malaysian Grand Prix which would be consistent with the rest of the <Sponsor> Grands Prix? Why Grand Prix of Europe instead of European Grand Prix? Etcetera. I appreciate these are silly little things to concern myself with but I could pick nits for Finland when I'm bored enough. So there! :lol:


In some ways Malaysia is now alongside Petronas another title sponsor of Malaysian GP. Previously Malaysia was just a GP host, but now the name has been changed to promote the country better. But the maning of European GP is a weird thing. The only season it's officially been European Grand Prix is 1993, according to Wikipedia.

Edited by August, 04 April 2011 - 16:55.


#13 Rob29

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Posted 04 April 2011 - 16:58

Noticed from web dictionary. Nagydíj is nagy (=great) and díj (=prize) written together. Didn't assume it's two words written together.



I'm just wondering how come naming events only with their sponsor's name hasn't (luckily) started in F1.

Started back in the 70s I think,when the british round was called just 'John Player Grand Prix'
If you see the podium for F1 race at Fuji in 1976- bears the title 'F1 Race in Japan' I think that the title 'Japanese Grand Prix' then belonged to an F2 race at Suzuka :wave:
The USA at on time named races after cities as they had 3 in 1982.Long Beach,Las Vegas & Detroit.Dallas in 1984.New York 3 times scheduled but cancelled.


#14 August

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Posted 04 April 2011 - 17:08

Started back in the 70s I think,when the british round was called just 'John Player Grand Prix'
If you see the podium for F1 race at Fuji in 1976- bears the title 'F1 Race in Japan' I think that the title 'Japanese Grand Prix' then belonged to an F2 race at Suzuka :wave:
The USA at on time named races after cities as they had 3 in 1982.Long Beach,Las Vegas & Detroit.Dallas in 1984.New York 3 times scheduled but cancelled.


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#15 Sausage

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Posted 04 April 2011 - 17:48

There are no rules prolly, FIA can just decide what suits the event. Like the GP's wich were in different countries than the track is (luxembourg gp, san marino gp).

#16 PayasYouRace

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Posted 04 April 2011 - 17:59

In some ways Malaysia is now alongside Petronas another title sponsor of Malaysian GP. Previously Malaysia was just a GP host, but now the name has been changed to promote the country better. But the maning of European GP is a weird thing. The only season it's officially been European Grand Prix is 1993, according to Wikipedia.


The others are translations from something other than English. Might have something to do with it.

Then again, the 1985 GP that Mansell won was the Shell Oils Grand Prix of Europe at Brands Hatch, going by Murray Walker's unforgetable commentary (and confirmed by Forix).

#17 armchair expert

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 02:03

Sorry to be pedantic, but Qantas (formerly QUANTAS), not Quantas. But you are correct, possibly with the exception of Monte Carlo, as I do not remember them having an event sponsor (could be wrong, have a hunch on Martini if I am incorrect).



QANTAS is an acronym for Queensland And Northern Territory Aerial Services, therefore it is and always has been: QANTAS.

(Okay, so I'm a nit-picker! :) )

#18 senamic

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 04:57

Ha! :D

QANTAS is an acronym for Queensland And Northern Territory Aerial Services, therefore it is and always has been: QANTAS.

(Okay, so I'm a nit-picker! :) )

Hahahahaha caught out myself :blush: :blush: :blush:

Thanks, will edit, I was trying to help improve clarity, thanks for doing the same :)

Edit: Also, it was QANTAS, but is now Qantas Airways Limited. They lost the acronym along the line, not sure of when though.

Edited by senamic, 05 April 2011 - 05:07.


#19 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 05:21

Noticed from web dictionary. Nagydíj is nagy (=great) and díj (=prize) written together. Didn't assume it's two words written together.

Grammar may be constructed differently in Hungarian.

Latin based languages - too darn dominant in the west!

The more types of script the better I say.

The Australians could have a scripting technique called 'bogan' where words are formed from the symbols of various brand of beer, writing would begin in the lower right hand side of the page and it would be compulsory that the scribing tool must not be removed from the page when writing. The ordering of text into sentence and paragraph like entities would be arbitrary, at the writers' discretion.

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#20 armchair expert

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 06:12

Edit: Also, it was QANTAS, but is now Qantas Airways Limited. They lost the acronym along the line, not sure of when though.


You're right, they only use the upper case in their logo.
Not sure how that affects F1 race names................. :)

#21 Rob29

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 07:57

Guess this has already been done on TNF but European GP has a strange history.Started in 1920s,long before world chanpionship.Replaced in 30s by a 4 or 5 race 'European championship' revived afer WW2 ,and when championship started in 1950 title awarded to one european race per year.Seems to have been dropped in the 70s.Come Bernie era in 80s rules required 16 races per season-when a extra one needed to be rustled up in Europe they called it the European GP-Brands Hatch 1983 & 85.Nurburgring 84,Donington 93,Jerez 95 & 98.

#22 PayasYouRace

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 08:21

Guess this has already been done on TNF but European GP has a strange history.Started in 1920s,long before world chanpionship.Replaced in 30s by a 4 or 5 race 'European championship' revived afer WW2 ,and when championship started in 1950 title awarded to one european race per year.Seems to have been dropped in the 70s.Come Bernie era in 80s rules required 16 races per season-when a extra one needed to be rustled up in Europe they called it the European GP-Brands Hatch 1983 & 85.Nurburgring 84,Donington 93,Jerez 95 & 98.


But the question is why some have been "European Grand Prix" and others "Grand Prix of Europe"

#23 August

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 09:40

But the question is why some have been "European Grand Prix" and others "Grand Prix of Europe"


Maybe they want to make difference to the honorific title. Or maybe "Grand Prix of Europe" fits better to other languages like "Großer Preis von Europa" or "Gran Premio de Europa". But its official name has always been in English, no matter which contry hosts it.

#24 MonzaF1

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 09:53

Over here at Nitpickers Anonymous, many a linguistic muscle has indeed been pulled due to the travesty that is the shockingly inconsistent naming of Formula One Grands Prix.


Nitpickers are like nose infections.

I think McLaren are still celebrating and recovering from the days of Ron Dennis.

#25 flyer121

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 10:01

POP Quiz for Geeks and Nitpickers -
What did they call the Korean GP? And what will they call the Indian GP?

#26 PayasYouRace

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 10:03

Maybe they want to make difference to the honorific title. Or maybe "Grand Prix of Europe" fits better to other languages like "Großer Preis von Europa" or "Gran Premio de Europa". But its official name has always been in English, no matter which contry hosts it.


I think the French might take exception to that.

Edited by PayasYouRace, 05 April 2011 - 10:03.


#27 MrFondue

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 10:03

How many Santander sponsored GP's do we have this year? 3?

#28 August

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 10:07

POP Quiz for Geeks and Nitpickers -
What did they call the Korean GP? And what will they call the Indian GP?


Without checking I'd say they are called Grand Prix of Korea/India.

Edit: Only India is GP of India, for some reason. Anyway, Korea is Korean GP

Edited by August, 05 April 2011 - 10:10.


#29 August

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 10:15

How many Santander sponsored GP's do we have this year? 3?


Yep. British, Germany and Italy. But in '98 we had four Marlboro title-sponsored GPs. Brazil, Argentine, Spain, and Hungary.

#30 Ruf

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 10:18

I think the French might take exception to that.

France maybe not, none of their tracks ever hosted a European GP. But the Spanish and Germans yes:

Official name XXXVI Großer Preis von Europa, Nürburgring, Nürburg, Germany, October 7, 1984
Official name XXXIX Gran Premio de Europa, Circuito Permanente de Jerez, Jerez, Spain , October 16, 1994

Edited by Ruf, 05 April 2011 - 10:19.


#31 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 10:20

Yep. British, Germany and Italy. But in '98 we had four Marlboro title-sponsored GPs. Brazil, Argentine, Spain, and Hungary.


We also had 4 ING races in 2009.

#32 PayasYouRace

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 10:25

France maybe not, none of their tracks ever hosted a European GP. But the Spanish and Germans yes:

Official name XXXVI Großer Preis von Europa, Nürburgring, Nürburg, Germany, October 7, 1984
Official name XXXIX Gran Premio de Europa, Circuito Permanente de Jerez, Jerez, Spain , October 16, 1994


I misread his post but you're right.

#33 BRG

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 11:49

There may have been some tidy-mindedness by the FIA. In the WRC, all the rounds were made to adopt the name of the country rather than their traditional name - eg 1000 Lakes became the Rally of Finland, the Tour de Corse became the Rally of France, the old RAC Rally became Rally GB. Apparently the casual rally spectator might have been confused and tried to go to a rally in the wrong country or something.

All part of the Ecclestone-esque move to homogenising everything and squeezing the character out of the sport. Heaven forbid that the organisers of an event should be allowed to name it themselves!

#34 flyer121

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 11:56

Without checking I'd say they are called Grand Prix of Korea/India.

Edit: Only India is GP of India, for some reason. Anyway, Korea is Korean GP


Correct !!
And you win a complimentary membership to the GNA (Geeky Nitpickers Association) :)

#35 August

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 13:31

Correct !!
And you win a complimentary membership to the GNA (Geeky Nitpickers Association) :)


Thanks a lot. :)

Anyway, a bit surprising that there are not many races with name like (sponsor) GP of country, as IMO that would be better for the title sponsor. Names like Santander British Grand Prix show clearly that it's the British GP sponsored by Santander whereas somebody might think that Telefónica Grand Prix of Europe is Telefónica Grand Prix held in Europe. As Telefónica's marketing director I'd order Valencia organizers write the race's name in adverts like this: Telefónica Grand Prix of Europe

Anyway, a good example on calling the races with their sponsor's name is Neste Oil Rally Finland. Usually it's called in Finland as Jyväskylä Rally or 'Jyskälä' but it's more common in Finland to call it Neste Oil Rally than Rally Finland. The same might happen with "Sponsor GP of Country"s.

There may have been some tidy-mindedness by the FIA. In the WRC, all the rounds were made to adopt the name of the country rather than their traditional name - eg 1000 Lakes became the Rally of Finland, the Tour de Corse became the Rally of France, the old RAC Rally became Rally GB. Apparently the casual rally spectator might have been confused and tried to go to a rally in the wrong country or something.


Monte was an exemption.

Edited by August, 05 April 2011 - 13:32.


#36 BRG

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 13:36

Monte was an exemption.

Not really - it is effectively the name of the country (technically Monaco, but Monte Carlo is often used as an alternative, both in F1 and WRC).

#37 Rob29

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 17:09

Not really - it is effectively the name of the country (technically Monaco, but Monte Carlo is often used as an alternative, both in F1 and WRC).

Monte Carlo is part of the Principality of Monaco.As to Grand Prix of Europe/European GP I think this is just language useage.I still have program for 1968 Rouen race which bears the title '1st Grand Prix de France'.Previously was Grand Prix d'ACF(Automobile club de France)since 1906.

#38 CONOSUR

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 22:25

To follow the 'based-in-English' comment above, Monaco should be called the Monaghasce(sp) Grand Prix, and the American Grand Prix, and the Bahrani GP, and, and, etc. I think it's just Bernie and his inconsistency in using country names as nouns or adjectives. The worst of all is the Abu Dhabi GP. Abu Dhabi is the equivalent to an English county, or an American state. Abu Dhabi's not a country, but merely one state in the United Arab Emirates.

Make 'em all the same.




:cool:

#39 paipa

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 23:14

Noticed from web dictionary. Nagydíj is nagy (=great) and díj (=prize) written together. Didn't assume it's two words written together.

Indeed, nagy díj means great prize however if written together and with a capital N its meaning transforms into Grand Prix. The phrase nagy díj evokes a shiny big trophy or a lot of money, whereas Nagydíj refers to a particular prestigious contest.

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#40 Talisker

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 01:49

What amuses me is when ordinary punters like ourselves use the sponsors name, e.g. the "PETRONAS MALAYSIA GRAND PRIX preview thread". I can understand that as part of sponsor's contract the organisers and possibly the TV commentators have to use the sponsor's name, but why should the rest of us give them free advertising. Seems a bit silly really.

#41 Seanspeed

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 02:29

What amuses me is when ordinary punters like ourselves use the sponsors name, e.g. the "PETRONAS MALAYSIA GRAND PRIX preview thread". I can understand that as part of sponsor's contract the organisers and possibly the TV commentators have to use the sponsor's name, but why should the rest of us give them free advertising. Seems a bit silly really.

Definitely.

Nothing's worse than NASCAR, though.

The Autism Speaks 400.
The Hullevu Good 400.
The CARFAX 400.
The Emory Healthcare 500.
The TUMS 500.

:stoned:

I get the need for sponsors, but boy does it seriously water down the seriousness of it......whats worse is that they have sponsors for caution periods, too! Ridiculous. Cant wait til they have cars entering the FedEx pitlane!

Edited by Seanspeed, 06 April 2011 - 02:30.


#42 August

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 11:57

To follow the 'based-in-English' comment above, Monaco should be called the Monaghasce(sp) Grand Prix, and the American Grand Prix, and the Bahrani GP, and, and, etc. I think it's just Bernie and his inconsistency in using country names as nouns or adjectives. The worst of all is the Abu Dhabi GP. Abu Dhabi is the equivalent to an English county, or an American state. Abu Dhabi's not a country, but merely one state in the United Arab Emirates.


In fact Monaco GP is just a 'common name' of that race. The official name is Grand Prix de Monaco. I think it's Monaco GP coz Monaco is also the name of a city. GP of Rome would've probably been Rome GP, not Roman GP.

Indeed, nagy díj means great prize however if written together and with a capital N its meaning transforms into Grand Prix. The phrase nagy díj evokes a shiny big trophy or a lot of money, whereas Nagydíj refers to a particular prestigious contest.


A bit similar to Finnish. 'Suuri palkinto' means a big prize, 'suurpalkinto' would mean a certain prestigios prize. We don't have an own word for Grand Prix, but suurpalkinto's meaning would be close to it.

What amuses me is when ordinary punters like ourselves use the sponsors name, e.g. the "PETRONAS MALAYSIA GRAND PRIX preview thread". I can understand that as part of sponsor's contract the organisers and possibly the TV commentators have to use the sponsor's name, but why should the rest of us give them free advertising. Seems a bit silly really.


We don't either speak about Vodafone McLaren or AT&T Williams. Lotus Renault GP is another story.

Nothing's worse than NASCAR, though.

The Autism Speaks 400.
The Hullevu Good 400.
The CARFAX 400.
The Emory Healthcare 500.
The TUMS 500.


In those cases it's IMO OK to speak with sponsors names as those races don't have an own name. But using only sponsor's name in the race's name makes it a bit more difficult to build the race a brand. But names like that suit well for sponsors, as people use sponsor's name in their speech, in F1 races they usually don't.

But what I was wondering is whether GPs can be named only after their sponsors, if the sponsor's name includes the country's name, like Grand Prix Air Canada.

#43 Ruf

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 12:14

I think it's Monaco GP coz Monaco is also the name of a city. GP of Rome would've probably been Rome GP, not Roman GP.

Monaco is a name of a country, actually. The name of the "city" is Monaco-ville, the track doesn't even go there (it's the hilly bit with the castle on it). Monte Carlo is another "city" in the Principality.

The proposed GP in Rome whould've probably been called Italian GP (if Monza is dropped, that is) or European GP, or perhaps GP of San Marino if European GP name is not available either. Countries host Grand Prix, one per season, not towns.

#44 PayasYouRace

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 12:22

In fact Monaco GP is just a 'common name' of that race. The official name is Grand Prix de Monaco. I think it's Monaco GP coz Monaco is also the name of a city. GP of Rome would've probably been Rome GP, not Roman GP.


As Ruf said, Monaco is the name of the country. I guess we say the "Monaco Grand Prix" just because it's easier to say than "Monegasque Grand Prix" in English. For the most part, it's rare to say the belonging of owner in English, because it is better english to use the form owner's belonging. But in some cases the adjective form doesn't fit well in English.

I actually suspect that there aren't any hard and fast rules about naming Grands Prix, only that the it includes the words "Grand Prix" in some form and a reference to the country or area it represents. The latter in the case of the European, Pacific, etc.

Edit: Used better gramatical words.

Edited by PayasYouRace, 06 April 2011 - 12:25.


#45 Henrik B

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 22:36

We don't either speak about Vodafone McLaren or AT&T Williams. Lotus Renault GP is another story.


It really isn't. It bugs me that the only team thread in the forum to have their sponsor name in the title is Lotus Renault. By any definition possible Lotus are sponsors just like Vodafone. I smiled to myself when the Swedish commentators consistently used only "Renault" during the Australian broadcast.

And you thought YOU were nitpicking!

Edited by Henrik B, 06 April 2011 - 22:37.


#46 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 04:24

That's because whoever started it named it that, it isn't a rule or anything.

#47 Henrik B

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 06:39

I know that, that's why I simply said it bugs me. I'm sure it wasn't named specifically to annoy me. If I thought it was a rule violation I would have reported it just like anyone else.

#48 August

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 09:43

The proposed GP in Rome whould've probably been called Italian GP (if Monza is dropped, that is) or European GP, or perhaps GP of San Marino if European GP name is not available either. Countries host Grand Prix, one per season, not towns.


IIRC they registered the trademark Rome Grand Prix for that race. At least it would've not been San Marino GP, as Rome is too far away from San Marino. IIRC the GP has to be withing 100 km or so from another, to host that country's GP.

I actually suspect that there aren't any hard and fast rules about naming Grands Prix, only that the it includes the words "Grand Prix" in some form and a reference to the country or area it represents. The latter in the case of the European, Pacific, etc.


That seems obvious.

Edited by August, 07 April 2011 - 09:45.


#49 August

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 20:52

This is not about F1 but MotoGP. What is the correct name of Assen MotoGP round? English Wikipedia uses Dutch TT whereas Dutch Wikipedia uses TT Assen.