17 replies to this topic

[Marcor]

It was the last F1 shared victory, 5 years after the famous victory of the Vanwall driven by Brooks and Moss in the 1957 British GP at Aintree. In the 50's we can remember the 1956 Argentine GP (Musso / Fangio, Lancia Ferrari D50), the nc 1952 GP des Comminges (Simon / Ascari, Ferrari 500/6) and the 1951 ACF GP at Rheims (Fagioli / Fangio, Alfa Romeo 159).

I don't count the 1967 Syracuse GP. The two Ferrari's drivers, Mike Parkes and Ludovico Scarfiotti, were declared winners but they have their own cars. It was a perfect death-heat, in memory of Lorenzo Bandini.

The inaugural Mexican GP, a non-championship race held on the circuit of Magdalena Mixhuca, Mexico City, was also unluckily remembered for the fatal crash of 20 year-old local hero Ricardo Rodriguez. 1962 was a catastrophic season for Ferrari and the Scuderia, after the Italian GP, refused to go to the Mexican GP. Of course Ricardo wanted to be in it. He then came to Rob Walker and asked if he could drive one of his car, here the Lotus 24 941 Climax V8.

The race should have been a celebration. The country's racing prodigy was to perform in front of his adoring countrymen. These people, who'd watched spellbound a few years earlier as the 14 year-old kid entered local races and proceeded to clean up, would now be seeing him perform at the highest level, F1, just 14 months after making one of the most sensational GP debuts of all time; (1961 Italian GP, set 2nd fastest time, quicker in an identical car than Phil Hill who would be crowned World champion the next day). His two year older brother, Pedro, set to make his F1 debut here (as well as Moise Solana ?), another good Mexican driver. But the event was far from a celebration. It was to become a wake for the Mexicans.

Rob remembers (in Motorsport, March 1998 and April 2000):

" I barely knew him (Ricardo), I'd spoken with him maybe 10 times. We were just walking about at Monza and Ricardo came up to me and told me Enzo wasn't sending cars to Mexico. He wondered if he could drive my car there. I spoke to Alfa Francis who said he had nothing on, there's no reason why not, and that was it. The Rodriguez family took care of the arrangements."

Renta-drive Lotus 24 (and not 25) notwithstanding, Ricardo was consistently the fastest in unofficial practice until, near the end of the day (1st November) , John Surtees went out in his Lola and shaved a marginally quicker time (or was it the Lotus 24 947 Climax V8 John Surtees had borrowed from Jack Brabham, as some people says ?).

"Ricardo had got pole in first practice. There were about ten minutes left and Surtees beat his time. Rodriguez's father went to him and said, "Look - Surtees has beaten your time" and he obviously told him to go quicker.

"Ricardo did an unusual thing before he set off. He crossed himself. Then on that wicked banked corner, he overdid it. I think he hit a post. I'm sure it just broke away as he drove over the limit. Ricardo hadn't got youth out of him and that caused the danger".

So after the Lotus veered out of control at the entry to the banked Parabolica just before the startlie before attempting to throw the unbelted driver out Motorsport gave two prevailing explanations.
1- Simply that pride caused him to overreach himself;
2- (summed up by Jo Ramirez, friend of Ricardo at this time): "At the entry to that corner (the Peraltada curve) there was a undulation which made the car react very badly if you went over it. So everyone was using another part of the track. It was at this point that some people said something broke on the car".

Ricardo was conscious when the ambulance was called but succumbed to his injuries before it reached the hospital.

His brother Pedro Rodrigues had witnessed the accident and was terribly shocked. He withdrew from the race and stayed away from racing for a while.

The race:
Always at the wheel of his Lotus 25 R3, winner of the US GP four weeks before Jim Clark sat finally on pole position. On the starting grid his engine had problems and his car would not start. He received a push from his mechanics and was logically disqualified for that. So he took over team mate Trevor Taylor's car Lotus 25 R2 and the Scottish stormed through the field. He finally beat Jack Brabham and Innes Ireland in the Lotus 24 Climax entered by UDT Laystall Racing Team.

Jack could win his first race in his own F1 car as he led in the early stages until overhauled by Clark. But a second place was already a decent result for a recent car. It was not until the German GP in August that the first F1 Brabham (BT3/F1-1-62 Climax) appeared (the car retired after 9 laps) and the Mexican GP was its 4th race after the Oulton Park Gold Cup (3rd) and the US GP (4th).

Bruce McLaren was the lone Cooper works entry (Tony Maggs was not present). He led from lap 13 to lap 44 and could win but his engine broke.

Following the US GP, some North-drivers American also competed in this race with the same car. That's why we saw again in the entries Jim Hall and his old Lotus 21 (although he was a non-starter at Watkins Glen), Bob Schroeder and maybe some others...


The results: 4 November 1962, Magdalena Mixhuca, Mexico City, 60 laps x 5 km = 300 km.
1- Trevor Taylor/Jim Clark (Lotus 25-R2 Climax V8 FWMV #29), 2h 3'50.9", 145,339 kph
2- Jack Brabham (Brabham BT3 F1-1-62 Climax V8)
3- Innes Ireland (Lotus 24 942 Climax V8) + 1 lap
4- Jim Hall (Lotus 21 936 Climax) + 1 lap
5- Masten Gregory (Lotus 24 944 BRM V8) + 1 lap
6- Bob Schroeder (Lotus 24 940 Climax V8) + 3 laps.
...

Fastest Lap: Jim Clark (Lotus 25-R2 Climax V8 FWMV #29), 1'59.7", 93.44mph = 150,375 kph
Pole Position: Jim Clark, (Lotus 25-R3 Climax V8 FWMV #8), 2'00.1", 150 kph

Disqualified- Jim Clark (Lotus 25-R3 Climax V8 FWMV #8)
DNF- Bruce McLaren (Cooper T60 F1-17-61 Climax V8 #21) engine
DNF- Alan Connell (Cooper T53 F1-16-61 Climax #5), car used by Hap Sharp in the US GP.

DNS- Ricardo Rodriguez (Lotus 24 941 Climax V8) fatal crash on practice
DNS- Pedro Rodriguez (?)

Also entered:
John Surtees (Lola Mk 4 Climax FWMV V8 or Lotus 24 947 Climax V8)
? Moise Solana (Cooper T51 BRM #9)

Not present:
Porsche (Gurney, Bonnier)
Scuderia Ferrari

Do you know more about that race ? (entry list, complete results and report) Any comments or pictures of the banking are welcome !!!

In this topic: lot's of direction:
1- Was it normal that the first driver of a team took over the car of his team-mate. Jim Clark was probably one of the last to do that, for example, the 1963 Aintree 200, and later the 1964 US GP but why as he couldn't score a single point ?
2- The accident of Ricardo Rodriguez.
3- The banking (the Peraltada curve), was it dangerous ?
4- Lot's of American drivers, following the US GP.
...

[p][Edited by Marcor on 01-17-2001]

[David McKinney]

You shouldn't be puzzled at Clark taking over someone else's car when he couldn't earn points, Marcor. In those days people raced for the enjoyment of it as much as anything else, and for the challenge of doing the best they could on every occasion. For the same reason top drivers regularly raced in other classes than F1 as well. The empahasis on racing for points in F1 is relatively new. Now there is in effect just one F1 race per year, called the World Championship.

[Rob Ryder]

Here's what I have (no times I am afraid)

Entry

#2 Wolfgang Seidel (Lotus 24 BRM)
#4 Carel Godin de Beaufort (Porsche 718)
#5 Alan Connell (Cooper T53 Climax)
#7 Ricardo Rodriguez (Lotus 24 Climax)
#8 Jim Clark (Lotus 25 Climax)
#9 Moises Solana (Cooper T58 BRM)
#14 Roger Penske (Lotus 24 Climax)
#15 Innes Ireland (Lotus 24 Climax)
#16 Masten Gregory (Lotus 24 BRM)
#17 Jack Brabham (Brabham BT3 Climax)
#18 Roy Salvadori (Lola T4 Climax)
#19 John Surtees (Lotus 24 Climax)
#21 Bruce McLaren (Cooper T60 Climax)
#24 Homer Rader (Lotus 18 Climax)
#25 Jim Hall (Lotua 21 Cllimax)
#29 Trevor Taylor (Lotus 25 Climax)
#52 Jay Chamberlain (Lotus 18 Climax)
#60 Walter Hansgen (Lotus 18 Climax)
#77 Rob Schroeder (Lotus 24 Climax)

#19T John Surtees had a Cooper T58 BRM as spare but raced the Lotus

Grid (partial)

Jim Clark
Innes Ireland
Trevor Taylor
John Surtees
Bruce McLaren

Result

1 Taylor/Clark
2 Jack Brabham
3 Innes Ireland
4 Jim Hall
5 Masten Gregory
6 Rob Schroeder
7 de Beaufort
8 Homer Rader
9 Jay Chamberlain

Walter Hansgen Retired Lap 45
Roger Penske Retired Lap 39
Bruce McLaren Retired Lap 36
Jim Clark (#8) Retired Lap 10
Alan Connell Retired Lap 4
Wolfgang Seidel Retired Lap 2
John Surtees Retired Lap 1
Roy Salvadori Retired Lap ??

Did not start

Moises Solana
Ricardo Rodriguez

No doubt some guru can fill in the gaps?

Rob

[Allen Brown]

Rob

What's your source for Solana and Surtees having the T58-BRM? Parnell certainly had some sort of BRM-engined Cooper in Mexico but I doubt it was the T58. The only identification I have found so far for it being the T58 was the original 1976 F1 Register book (the later ones retained the same identification).

I suspect this was another Parnell-built car. They built at least one Cooper T53 in 1961 (the 'streamliner' VR) and also built their own Lotus 18/21s, 24s and even a 33.

Allen

[Marcor]

Rob

Thank you for the entry list and to complete my results.

Who was Homer Rader ? I thik it's the first time I see his name. I know only a little bit about Alan Connnell (as a Cooper Monaco driver).

How many North-Americans in the entry list ? (including USA, Canada and Mexico), 9 or 10 ?, that's nearly half of the entrants !!

[Roger Clark]

from the report in Motor Racing magazine:

"The dangerous one is th ebanking. This is a sweeping, quite steeply banked, long right-hander, which leads onto the pit straight As Jack Brabham commented, "You think, 'this is rediculous to be going round here so slowly - next time I'll speed up' But next time, and every time, you don't, because you steer and nothing happens, at least until the wheels come down for an occassional pitter-pat on the surface."

"In training ricardo Rodriguez, who was to be the Mexican hero for the meeting, was thhe only driver taking the banking apparantly flat. This brave, colourful and talented young driver, lost it horribly here dring pratice in a Rob Walkeer Lotus-Climax Z8. He hit thhhhhe guard rail and was thrown out of the car. He died almost instantly.

Careful inspection of the car afterwards showed the cockpit and safety roll bar to be almost untouched. THe car did not flip and had poor Ricardo been wearing a safety belt on this occassion he might have survived.

[Rob Ryder]

Allen

My original source would probably have been FORIX, but I am not as efficient as I should be when it comes to noting the source of information in my database! Maybe I should add a few fields to not the source?


The FORIX URL Non-Championship index is..

http://www.forix.com...asp?z=0&k=0&l=0

Rob[p][Edited by Rob Ryder on 01-18-2001]

[cjpani]

Marcor:
Excelent post!!!!
As a mexican I am very happy to read this kind of material in this superb BB, specially the way you´ve described it. Just great.
Even though I wasn´t even alive when such GP took place, I h
ope I can be of help here:

Moises Solana didn´t drive a t58 brm in 1962, he drove this Cooper Maserati



He was a very good driver, often compared with "el chamaco" Ricardo Rodriguez.

As For the accident that killed the young wonder Rodriguez; much is said about it. There are even strong versions indicating that the body of Ricardo, once projected from the car, landed on the rail, almost slicing the body in half. A real shame.

About the infamous "peraltada", there also many stories to be told. Was it dangerous? Just ask Ayrton, where he had a huge crash and rolling his car upside down, or Philippe Alliot who had one of the most horrorific crashes exiting such curve. Nowdays the "peraltada" doesn´t have a banking a all, but it´s still a very dangerous curve and many accidents do ocurr in the several championships that we have here, such as vintage racing and Mustang cup, among others.

The peraltada practically "slingshots" the car towards the main straight (a very long one ) which finishes in a series of curves called "the Moises Solana Complex", then the "esses" and the "estadio" .

Hope I´ve been of help

Best regards,
Carlos Pani

[rolando]

Cjpani, the car was indeed a Cooper-BRM not a Coooper-Maserati, as you can see the Solana's website is incorrect, too.

By the way there's something strange here...

If you check forix, there's this comment about Solana retirement:
"Declared that he would not drive as he had no chance of winning in the car"

but if you check Joaquin Solana's site http://www.jsolana.com.mx it tells that Moises decided not to compete because Ricardo was dead as a matter of respect, so who is right?

Any opinions?


[p][Edited by rolando on 01-17-2001]

[cjpani]

Rolando:
I stand corrected. You are right on the make of the car. The website has the same pictures 2 times, one claiming that it´s a Maseratti, and another one claiming the BRM.

On Moises refraining to start the race, I am more leaned to the "respect" theory, due to "el chamaco´s" death. It was a huge shock for everyone.

Regards,
Carlos

[Allen Brown]

cjpani

I can only find one picture of the Cooper on the site, at http://www.jsolana.c...es/cooper-2.jpg, the same one you have posted above. Could you point me to the other picture please.

The picture is a bit blurred but it doesn't look like the T58 to me - the T58 was a 'slimline' following the design of the 1961 works T55 - this looks more like a T53 to me.

But I'm no expert. I'll find one and ask them.

Allen

[Felix Muelas]

Originally posted by Allen Brown
But I'm no expert

Carlos

Beware of Allen When he says he's no expert, I mean

Felix

[Rob29]

i wondered what a T58 was so I checked.Seems it was the one-off Cooper that Jack Brabham drove in '61.,from Nurburgring onwards.First car fitted with V8 Coventry Climax engine.Maybe it was sold to Bowmaker and fitted with a BRM motor,but this would be odd because they had Lola-Climaxes at the time. It has taken me 38 years to find a picture of this car! Thanks.

[Allen Brown]

Felix - you're too kind!

Rob29's information has come from Forix. Do you know where Forix got it from? Was it the F1 Register books. If so, we're coming all the way back round to the 1976 F1 Register book as the original source.

I asked Paul Sheldon and Duncan Rabagliati about this some years ago and they didn't know where John Thompson had got the information for the original book.

There is a story in one of the English magazines (heresay, I'm afraid, I've never managed to locate the article myself) about Surtees testing a Cooper-BRM about September 1962 but that doesn't say where the chassis came from.

The photo is wonderful - the first one I've seen of this car - but does anyone have any other (original) source on this car?

Allen

[Felix Muelas]

Originally posted by Allen Brown
Felix - you're too kind!

No, I'm not. I (sometimes) know what I say...

Do you know where Forix got it from?

Should I?;) Yes, of course, as you guessed we got it from the Sheldon's Register

If so, we're coming all the way back round to the 1976 F1 Register book as the original source

I am afraid that's a very accurate descrption of the situation...

Felix

[cjpani]

Allen:

The pic. I posted is indeed located at http://www.jsolana.com.mx/moises/
The one you mention is almost at the bottom of the page, while the one I posyed is at the begining of the page, in thumbnail format; just below the following quote, which is in brown letters :"**(The other surprise by Lotus during practice was the performance of guest driver Moisés Solana, who was handed the car wich Baghetti had driven in Monza, and in the course of only twelve training laps on the second day succeeded in lapping within approximately two seconds of the "masters".)

**SPORTS GRAPHIC/DECEMBER 1967, PAG. 38 WATKINS GLEN ARTICLE.."

It has a bright green frame. You can´t miss it.

Felix: Note taken; I´ve seen Allen´s website ;) Pretty Cool!!!

Best regards,
Carlos Pani

[Allen Brown]

[cjpani]

Glad you found it ;)

Regards,
Carlos Pani