55 replies to this topic

[wrexter]

Hello guys, after the performance of these two cars in the season thus far, i would like your opinion on the RB7 vs. the MP4-26. Would just like to get Autosport members' opinions.

[P123]

Still a bit early in the season to make any definitive judgements- McLaren seem to be catching up..

[OwenC93]

Certainly wasn't 8 tenths like Melbourne was it, but these things change track by track. Red-Bull are still faster in quali while the race remains to be seen.

[scheivlak]

Difficult to answer a question about race pace even before tomorrow's race.....

[Group B]

Far too early to properly judge; we've only had one one actual race. FWIW, based on today's qualifying, they're pretty even.

[Coops3]

I think they're about even. I think RB will be slightly ahead again next race, but after that I think McLaren will be faster, hopefully for the rest of the season.

[Unbiased]

This track doesn't suit RBR as well as Mclaren. They are still ahead on average.

Is also why it looks like Ferrari gained half a second on RBR in 2 weeks.

[wrexter]

This track doesn't suit RBR as well as Mclaren. They are still ahead on average.

Is also why it looks like Ferrari gained half a second on RBR in 2 weeks.

i think RBR has lost half a second rather than mclaren and ferrari gaining half a second.

maybe integrating KERS has cost them time, i dont know.

[Kvothe]

Lewis thinks that relative to the McLarens, the Red Bull's still have an advantage

http://news.bbc.co.u...ne/13024370.stm

[Unbiased]

i think RBR has lost half a second rather than mclaren and ferrari gaining half a second.

maybe integrating KERS has cost them time, i dont know.

It is the track. The KERS would gain them time, the weight and the distribution of it is still the same, with or without KERS.

If it was just Mclaren gaining on RBR, then yes, it was something else. But when Ferrari gains half a second on RBR (+ the tenths the KERS gives RBR), it cannot be anything else than the track.

[Group B]

Lewis thinks that relative to the McLarens, the Red Bull's still have an advantage

http://news.bbc.co.u...ne/13024370.stm

It's highly unlikely he'd say anything else. Not many drivers would tell the media 'I had the best car but he's a superior driver'. As I said above, for my money there was very little difference today.

Edited by Group B, 09 April 2011 - 13:29.

[simplyfast]

what happened to all those claims about RBR would destroy McLaren here?
I still think the bull is slightly faster (in qually) but far less than we saw last race.
Vettel to Jenson i think shows the real gap while its Lewis's style flattering the mac.
Having said that in the race i do think McLaren COULD now well have the edge, when you consider they were able to match the race pace in Australia.
so RBR have a 0.3 edge in qually with race pace to be seen (as its always possible RBR have sacrificed a little of their qually advantage so they perform better in the race).

[Kvothe]

It's highly unlikely he'd say anything else. Not many drivers would tell the media 'I had the best car but he's a superior driver'. As I said above, for my money there was very little difference today.

I think he would be quite honest. He has already said that he made a mistake costing a tenth of a second going into turn 14 and that this in turn led to the loss of a half of a tenth, without which he would have driven the perfect lap and been on pole. I also think it is rather obvious to the casual observer that the Redbull is still the faster car...by how much? It is still unknown. I just think we have a great driver lineup, All of the McLaren fans have been saying give us a car within 5 tenths, and we'll let the drivers do the rest, McLaren delivered and so did the drivers. Mark Webber came third with a Kers problem, so it's reasonable to believe especially considering Vettel's statement that without Kers he wouldn't have been on pole, that Webber would have been faster. Vettel drove another excellant lap, but while many (yourself included) complain people say it is the car, why would you not be willing to concede the car is still better but maybe it is the McLaren Drivers that have made the difference. Just look at Alonso and Massa, I didn't think Alonso could touch 1.35.8. but he did.

[ZooL]

RBR half a sec faster but McLaren have better drivers.

[Group B]

RBR half a sec faster but McLaren have better drivers.

[SteF1an]

RBR 2 sec faster but McLaren, Ferrari, Renault, Sauber, Mercedes, ToroRosso, ForceIndia and Williams have better drivers.

Fixed

[beute]

Certainly wasn't 8 tenths like Melbourne was it, but these things change track by track. Red-Bull are still faster in quali while the race remains to be seen.

I think the mclaren is faster here.
Vettel was just a bit more on the edge than hamilton.
Similiar to what happened in Hockenheim last year.

[SteF1an]

I think the mclaren is faster here.
Vettel was just a bit more on the edge than hamilton.
Similiar to what happened in Hockenheim last year.

"Vettel pulled it out of the bag when he needed to," said BBC commentator Martin Brundle. "That's the difference between the great and the good."

[OwenC93]

I think the mclaren is faster here.
Vettel was just a bit more on the edge than hamilton.
Similiar to what happened in Hockenheim last year.

Yes but I'm talking about over all, not just at Malaysia. Red-Bull had setup problems while the McLaren seems to suit this circuit and they still ended up pretty close performance wise. McLaren still have a gap to close IMO.

[ZooL]

Easy to pull it out the bag when you get pole after pole after and ariston....

RBR always have special trick on last run. They play with everybody.

Vettel is lucky he had 2 chances and improved 3 tenths on his 2nd go. Lewis barely improved his time so he was getting the maximum from the off. Vettel needed a second chance.

Its like RBR of last year, mistakes here and there meant slower cars like McLaren and Ferrari nearly won the title. But when RBR have a clean weekend its a guaranteed win.

[YellowHelmet]

Looking at todays qualy, i am asking myself, is vettel in front because thr RB is faster or was it just a sensatinoal lap by vettel.
It seems to me that Vettel is getting stronger and stronger and that here in malaysia mclaren was/is faster and just the outstanding performance by vettel made him get pole.

[Group B]

"Vettel pulled it out of the bag when he needed to," said BBC commentator Martin Brundle. "That's the difference between the great and the good."

Ah yes, but Brundle knows nothing about F1 compared to our resident sage ZooL. To be honest I think the gap is even bigger; probably 7 or 8 seconds advantage for Red Bull over McLaren.

[Anomnader]

To be honest, I think brundle speaking generally and was refering to both lewis and vettel

[wrexter]

To be honest, I think brundle speaking generally and was refering to both lewis and vettel

He was, he specifically named Lewis and Vettel.

[Disgrace]

I fancy the Red Bull is the quicker car... for now.

But this can and will always change; it looked like a straight fight between RB6 and MP4-25 in Turkey last year but the development race was easily won by Ferrari/Red Bull and McLaren fell away.

[RenArto]

I think the cars are fairly evenly matched, well at this circuit anyway, but RB still have a couple of tenths in single lap pace.

[Dunder]

I fancy the Red Bull is the quicker car... for now.

But this can and will always change; it looked like a straight fight between RB6 and MP4-25 in Turkey last year but the development race was easily won by Ferrari/Red Bull and McLaren fell away.

Agreed.

[King Six]

Come on, the way Vettel stormed ahead in Australia. There's no way the MP4-26 can be better in Race Pace. What's that? You say the MP4-26 has indeed shown better race pace than the RB7? Which race was that then?

Yeah that's right, we've only had one so far.

[Group B]

To be honest, I think brundle speaking generally and was refering to both lewis and vettel

He may well have been, but either way it was inclusive of Vettel, if not exclusive to him. The point is that it flatly contradicts the pretty silly position of characters like ZooL, who assure us that Vettel is at least half a second slower than Hamilton.

[Peter3hg]

Come on, the way Vettel stormed ahead in Australia. There's no way the MP4-26 can be better in Race Pace. What's that? You say the MP4-26 has indeed shown better race pace than the RB7? Which race was that then?

Yeah that's right, we've only had one so far.

Vettel was faster at certain stages but so was Hamilton. The first race showed us little in regards to race pace as Hamilton's car broke before they really got going.

[P123]

He may well have been, but either way it was inclusive of Vettel, if not exclusive to him. The point is that it flatly contradicts the pretty silly position of characters like ZooL, who assure us that Vettel is at least half a second slower than Hamilton.

It surprises me you would even entertain such a daft notion. Clearly they are both top class drivers and provided us with a great quali session today.

[Totza]

Anyone else Red Bull are sand bagging a bit because of the constant talk about their flexing front wing, and by letting Mclaren close the gap compared to Melbourne will maybe take the spotlight away from them dominating the rest and more about Mclarens catching them?

[Group B]

Clearly they are both top class drivers and provided us with a great quali session today.

Precisely. It's a shame some people can't just enjoy watching these guys instead of feeling the need to unceasingly declare that their hero's main rival is an untermensch. Personally I find it far more interesting and rewarding to know the guys I support are up against top talent. Roll on the race

[abc02]

Anyone else Red Bull are sand bagging a bit because of the constant talk about their flexing front wing, and by letting Mclaren close the gap compared to Melbourne will maybe take the spotlight away from them dominating the rest and more about Mclarens catching them?

That's silly. If you have an advantage you must make full use of it, especially in qualifying. It just so happens that the MP4-26 is just as good as the Red Bull.

[skid solo]

It's highly unlikely he'd say anything else. Not many drivers would tell the media 'I had the best car but he's a superior driver'. As I said above, for my money there was very little difference today.

Firstly there was a massive difference between Q2 and Q3 for the RBR "1 second". Button gained a few tenths Hamilton around 5 tenths. Whatever RBR are doing, it enables them to blitz everybody in Q3. Secondly There is no way the Mclaren is the best car and as far as Vettel being the superior driver.

[chhatra]

At this point in time, based only on qualifying, I would so about even. The driver who could extract the most from their package would have got pole, In this case Vettel. I see China as a McLaren track, only really one fast chicane for RB to gain but the rest is slow with a massive straight. Turkey could be like last year, McLaren better around the track but RB pulling away through turn 8. I'm really excited about this season I hope McLaren can keep producing parts that work so that we can have a great scrap. Would love to see Vettel and Hamilton in even machinery to see who's best.

[skid solo]

Vettel was faster at certain stages but so was Hamilton. The first race showed us little in regards to race pace as Hamilton's car broke before they really got going.

Hamilton was faster by tenths a lap, Vettel by seconds a lap! Slight difference don't you think!

[skid solo]

At this point in time, based only on qualifying, I would so about even. The driver who could extract the most from their package would have got pole, In this case Vettel. I see China as a McLaren track, only really one fast chicane for RB to gain but the rest is slow with a massive straight. Turkey could be like last year, McLaren better around the track but RB pulling away through turn 8. I'm really excited about this season I hope McLaren can keep producing parts that work so that we can have a great scrap. Would love to see Vettel and Hamilton in even machinery to see who's best.

So would Hamilton

[InfectedPumpkin]

rb is faster. mclaren has just very good drivers.

[mclarensmps]

To be sincerely honest, I think one RB car is slightly better than the other one. I believe all four drivers are on par with each other, and the form over the season between the McLarens and Red Bulls will see saw back and forth. It's shaping up to be a fantastic season!

[H2H]

Let us now give one of those dreaded looks on facts. I know they are not popular, especially among certain fan groups.

1 1 Sebastian Vettel 1’34.870 0.000 1
2 3 Lewis Hamilton 1’34.898 0.028 0.076 2

A look at the top drivers of RBR and McLaren. Seb was able to stich all the three sectors togheter when it counted, after he entered the final lap with only 4 sec to spare and delivered a perfect lap. Hamilton was unable to so, making an error in turn 14th, leading to the "I lost a tenth-and-a-half in Turn 14".

So if we look at the naked numbers Lewis could have got 1'34.824 against Sebs 1'34.870. So one would assume that with perfect laps from both drivers we would have seen a faster MP4-26.

Interestingly and not surprisingly Hamilton still things that Red Bull Racing has a slight edge - that his error could have lost him the slight edge of the MP4-26 doesn't seem to cross his mind or the mind of almost all of his supporters...

Now of course it could be that Lewis has as Alonso some magic tenths which he can take out of any car, a thought which will certainly find more support than the numbers above...


edited.

Edited by H2H, 09 April 2011 - 17:16.

[Group B]

To be sincerely honest, I think one RB car is slightly better than the other one. I believe all four drivers are on par with each other, and the form over the season between the McLarens and Red Bulls will see saw back and forth. It's shaping up to be a fantastic season!

[P123]

Let us now give one of those dreaded looks on facts. I know they are not popular, especially among certain fan groups.



A look at the top drivers of RBR and McLaren. Seb was able to stich all the three sectors togheter when it counted, after he entered the final lap with only 4 sec to spare and delivered a perfect lap. Hamilton was unable to so, making an error in turn 14th, leading to the "I lost a tenth-and-a-half in Turn 14".

So if we look at the naked numbers Lewis could have got 1'34.748 against Sebs 1'34.870. So one would assume that with perfect laps from both drivers we would have seen a faster MP4-26.

Interestingly and not surprisingly Hamilton still things that Red Bull Racing has a slight edge - that his error could have lost him the slight edge of the MP4-26 doesn't seem to cross his mind or the mind of almost all of his supporters...

Now of course it could be that Lewis has as Alonso some magic tenths which he can take out of any car, a thought which will certainly find more support than the numbers above...

I think your math has gone screwy somewhere. Ultimate lap- Hamilton: 1m34.898. Still not quite enough to beats Vettel's. But you are arguing over thousandths of a second- does it really matter that much to you to try and elevate Vettel and dismiss Hamilton?

[Lazy]

Let us now give one of those dreaded looks on facts. I know they are not popular, especially among certain fan groups.



A look at the top drivers of RBR and McLaren. Seb was able to stich all the three sectors togheter when it counted, after he entered the final lap with only 4 sec to spare and delivered a perfect lap. Hamilton was unable to so, making an error in turn 14th, leading to the "I lost a tenth-and-a-half in Turn 14".

So if we look at the naked numbers Lewis could have got 1'34.748 against Sebs 1'34.870. So one would assume that with perfect laps from both drivers we would have seen a faster MP4-26.

Interestingly and not surprisingly Hamilton still things that Red Bull Racing has a slight edge - that his error could have lost him the slight edge of the MP4-26 doesn't seem to cross his mind or the mind of almost all of his supporters...

Now of course it could be that Lewis has as Alonso some magic tenths which he can take out of any car, a thought which will certainly find more support than the numbers above...

Don't you just love it when a post starts with a smug, know it all sentence and then proceeds to talk a load of crap

[H2H]

I think your math has gone screwy somewhere. Ultimate lap- Hamilton: 1m34.898. Still not quite enough to beats Vettel's. But you are arguing over thousandths of a second- does it really matter that much to you to try and elevate Vettel and dismiss Hamilton?

You clearly didn't read the post fully even if you correctly saw the error. It was Hamilton you said that due the error he lost one-and-a half tenth. So according to him he should have in front, considering that he had a 1’34.974 as fastest lap. So it should have been 1`34.824, half a tenth faster than Vettel.

The point is I do not dismiss Lewis as somebody do Seb, but just pointed out the numbers according to Lewis. Others here think without the slightest shred of evidence that Lewis flattered the car by 4 tenths, I just say what Lewis said.

[H2H]

Don't you just love it when a post starts with a smug, know it all sentence and then proceeds to talk a load of crap

It is just states what Lewis said himself, so be it a load of crap, as you said

Edited by H2H, 09 April 2011 - 17:18.

[topical]

If Vettel is less talented than Mansell and Hamilton is the new Senna and the Red Bull is on pole, then the Red Bull must clearly be the faster car. End of argument.

[Lazy]

It is just states what Lewis said himself, so be it a load of crap, as you said ;)

Ok, so what makes you so sure that Seb did the perfect lap? There's no way to be sure even if you watched the onboard all the way through.

It's a load of crap because you can't take such a tiny slice of the data and extrapolate concrete conclusions from it.

[Stormsky68]

For now REB still has the edge.

Through the season that may chage, it depends which team can develop faster.

[joshb]

If Mclaren can get that close in qualifying, then I'd think they could have the edge in race pace and with track position not quite being king this year, it should make for a long hard scrap tomorrow.