69 replies to this topic

[Bell]

post your top 5 here, mine are...

1. Aryton Senna
2. Juan Manuel Fangio
3. Jim Clark
4. Michael Schumacher
5. Alain Prost

[alain]

This topic has been up for many times but if you want then
1.Senna
2.Clark
3.Prost
4.Fangio
5.Stewart

[JJ]

1. Ayrton Senna - as much as I hate to admit.
2. Michale Schumacher - as much as I hate to admit, again.
3. Jimmy Clark - an obvious choice for the top 5.
4. Juan de Fangio - a legend.
5. Gille Villeneuve - unproven, but arguably one of the top F-1 driver ever lived.

But realistically, if we look at entire motorsports world,
1. Ayrton Senna
2. Dale Earnheart (NASCAR)
3. Mario Andretti (Indy & F-1)
4. Michael Schumacher
5. Jimmy Clark

[Bell]

Apologies for repetition but Im still fairly new to this BB!!!

[SlateGray]

1. JC
2. JMF
3. GV
4. JS
5. AP

[JPMCrew]

Oh god, don't let this become a chance for NASCAR lovers to trumpet their gods.

Very subjective and very much based on other people's opinions:

Top F1 drivers of all time:

- Juan Manuel Fangio
- Jim Clark
- Ayrton Senna
- Alain Prost
- Stirling Moss

Top drivers of all time in other categories:

- Novoulari (Grand Prix racing pre-F1)
- AJ Foyt (Champ cars)
- Mario Andretti (All around)

I'll leave off NASCAR drivers as they have often been too afraid to prove themselves against the top drivers from other categories.

[TNSFH]

I couldn't narrow my list any more than this;
Juan Manuel Fangio
Stirling Moss
Jim Clark
Ayrton Senna
A.J. Foyt
Mario Andretti
Ivan (IronMan) Stewart
Kenny Roberts
I admire all of these men for what they accomplished.

JPMCrew, Although not a NASCAR fan, I do look forward to seeing the Earnheart's compete in the 24 Hours of Daytona as drivers for the Corvette C-5R.

[JPMCrew]

I look forward to that race too; although sadly, it has lost a lot of its luster in the last decade or so. It used too be that many of the top drivers from all series, even F1, would jump at the chance to race there; now, not even the top sport cars drivers are there.

[argos]

My top 5 drivers of all time:

- Tazio Nuvolari
- Rudolf Caracciola
- Juan-Manuel Fangio
- Jimmy Clark
- Jackie Stewart

[ASaSeN]

Dale Earnheart? lol

[Akira]

1. Clark
2. Fangio
3. Senna
4. Prost
5. M. Schumacher

[Jecko]

1. Ricardo Rosset
2. Jan Magnuessen
3. Alex Zanardi
4. Pedro Diniz
5. Tora Takagi

[miniman]

1) M. Schumacher
2) JL Schlesser
3) A McNish
4) F. Biela
5) A. Senna

[130R]

Clark
Fangio
Moss
Senna
Prost

[magic]

senna and a few others

[B.Traven]

1 - Fangio
2 - M. Schumacher
3 - Clark
4 - Prost
5 - Senna

[Matt Davis]

Top 5 Drivers Of all time

1. Any British Driver
2. Any British Driver
3. Any British Driver
4. Any British Driver
5. Any British Driver

Sugestions include:
Damon Hill
Jenson Button
Nigel Mansel
Eddie Irvine
David Coulthard
?Johny Herbert?

[Wolf]

1. Nuvolari
Fangio
3. Moss
4. Clark
5. a small surprise to be revealed later ;) (care to guess?)

[Spot]

In no particular order:

J-M. Fangio
G. Villeneuve
J. Stewart
J. Clarke
S. Moss

[Joe Fan]

This is an extremely difficult task to name just five drivers since there are so many great ones. The more and more motorsports history I read, the more and more difficult it becomes to sort them out especially when you have to evaluate drivers from different series and time spans. However, that being said, I feel that these four drivers have to be right up there:

A.J. Foyt
Juan Manuel Fangio
David Pearson
Tazio Nuvolari

Then there are a number of drivers that could fit in as the fifth driver like Stirling Moss, Jim Clark, Richard Petty, Curtis Turner, Fireball Roberts, Dale Earnhardt, Mario Andretti, etc.
[p][Edited by Joe Fan on 01-18-2001]

[Sean L]

Sorry, I can't narrow it down further than this.
In no particular order:

Nuvolari
Fangio
Moss
Clark
Stewart
G. Villeneuve
Senna
Prost
Schumacher

[Larry Connell]

As an aside, Senna was asked who he thought was the best driver around. His answer Mike Wilson. The obvious response "Who is that?" Mike Wilson was the 6, I think maybe 7, times world carting champion. Senna said he was only able to beat him a couple of times.

[P1 Pyrsol]

chronologically,

nuvolari (sp?)
fangio
clark
stewart
senna

[Harald]

Hi all.

[list=1][*]Juan Manuel Fangio[*]Tie: Alain Prost and Ayrton Senna da Silva (yeah, yeah I know: I just committed sacrilege, even to the next guy on the list, apparently. Whatever.)[*]Michael Schumacher[*]Jackie Stewart[*]Tie: Jim Clark and Niki Lauda

As I mentioned before, I do not omit a position after a tie, so there are actually seven drivers in my top five.

Boy, this attack of brevity is lasting a long time. For me, anyway.

The Faithless Elector (literally, I suppose, in this case ;) )
Shrub Nurseries-East (reverts to Washington DC on 01202005, I hope . . . )

[B.Traven]

If we can include GP drivers from before the F-1 era , then I will add Bernd Rosemayer's name to the list . The other day I did watch a ancient film of him driving a pre WW2 Auto Union ( first rear engined GP car - you know a layout John Cooper would invent some 20 years "later" ) , under heavy rain , taking the curves sideways with the narrow wheeled AU . Just thrilling .
He was the real rain master...

[AD]

Alphabetical order

Clark
Fangio
Prost
Schumacher
Senna
Stewart

[Harald]

Hey!

B. Travern jogged my memory, and actually embarrassed me a little.

If we can include drivers from the pre-FIA era, my list changes significantly:

• Tazio Nuvolari
• Juan Manuel Fangio
• Tie: Bernd Rosemeyer and Alain Prost
• Ayrton Senna (yeah, yeah: I know. This is even more sacrilegious than my first one. Whatever.)
• Michael Schumacher
• Tie: Jackie Stewart and Jim Clark

The Faithless Elector - The Sequel

[TommyBoy]

1) J M Fangio
2) J Clark
3) G Villenuve
4) Sir S Moss
5) Ayrton Senna, (although I didn't like the guy)

[b3nster]

i cant do only 5 either, but here are the best of the best
stewart
senna
prost
clark
fangio
schumacher
andretti
g. villeneuve
rindt
moss
nuvolari

[black magic]

Fangio
Nuvolari
Senna
Schumacher
Clark

[RedFever]

2. Dale Earnheart (NASCAR)

So, he is better than Fangio, Clark, Stewart, Rosenmayer, Nuvolari, Prost, Lauda, Stirling Moss. Please, don't, I can't take it, I have cramps in my stomac, I can't laugh that much!!!!




1) Tazio Nuvolari
2) Manuel Fangio
3) Jim Clark
4) Bernd Rosemeyer
5) Rudy Caracciola
6) Jackie Stewart
7) Gilles Villneuve
8) Ayrton Senna
9) Stirling Moss
10) Ronnie Peterson
11) Stefan Bellof
12) Mario Andretti
13) Niki Lauda
14) Michael Schumacher
15) Alain Prost

[P1 Pyrsol]

peterson ahead of schumacher?

[b3nster]

peterson ahead of schumacher AND prost? Redfever, I find it amusing that you are the first to criticize someone else's opinion when yours seems to defy my understanding.

[AyePirate]

The composite top five do far:

5. Nuvolari
4. Schumacher
3. Senna
2. Clark
1. Fangio

[Bernd]

Here is my list.

5. Sir Stirling Moss
4. Jackie Stewart
3. Alberto Ascari
2. Juan Manuel Fangio
1. Jim Clark

Honorable Mention

Tazio Nuvolari
Bernd Rosemeyer
Gilles Villeneuve
Ayrton Senna
Michael Schumacher

[Schumey's Lost Son]

1 - Senna
2 - Schumacher
3 - Fangio
4 - Clark
5 - Prost
6 - Moss ( I feel Moss should be included somewhere near the top even though he did not win a WDC )

[Wolf]

Williams, could you run sirrah Moss through this procedure? I would like how he fared... I'd say top 5 at least, if not better. Care to humour me, please?

[Williams]

F1 Driving Champions ranked.
(Plus Moss )

These are F1 Champions ranked using performance averages,
which can be seen at my AltasF1 webpage. Of course, car
performance is a large part of the equation. Whether such
stats directly indicate a driver's ability, you can judge.

J.M.Fangio (1.42)
Clark (4.85)
Ascari (5.14)
Moss (5.28)
Stewart (7.14)
M.Schumacher (7.42)
Farina (8.85)
Prost (8.85)
Senna (9.57)
Mansell (10.71)
Hawthorn (13.57)
D.Hill (14.14)
Hakkinen (14.57)
Lauda (14.71)
Rindt (15.28)
Brabham (17.28)
Surtees (17.71)
Hunt (18.28)
J.Villeneuve (18.57)
P.Hill (18.71)
Piquet (20.28)
Hulme (20.71)
Reutemann (21)
Andretti (21.85)
E.Fittipaldi (22.85)
G.Hill (23.57)
Jones (23.57)
Scheckter (23.85)
Rosberg (25.14)

The number to the right of each driver is based each driver's average position in a number of other rankings, such as percent wins in starts, average grid position, and so on. Fangio's average position in all the other rankings, for example, is somewhere between postion 1 and 2, averaging at 1.66. The other rankings averaged to get the final "superstat" are:

Percent wins in starts*
Percent fastest laps in starts*
Percent podiums in starts*
Percent poles in starts
Average of career race classifications (over race finishes)
Average of career grid positions
Average driver errors

*mechanical failures are discounted

The most interesting thing is the huge gap between Fangio and the other drivers.

The drivers can be grouped into ranks according to how close
the averages are:

Top rank: Fangio
Second rank: Clark, Ascari, Moss
Third rank: Stewart, Schumacher
Fourth rank: Farina, Prost, Senna, Mansell

And then the rest.

Other points I found interesting:

1. Damon beating his old man in the final tally by 14 positions.

2. Damon and Hakkinen nudging out Niki Lauda for 12th and 13th spot.

3. 50's drivers grabbed 2 of the top 3 spots.

4. What made for Michael's high performance ? He finished no less than 6th in 6 of 7 categories, falling down only in driver errors, where he ranked a terrible 24th of 29 drivers (beating only ansell,Piquet,D.Hill,J.Villeneuve,and Hunt).

5. And Fangio ? He placed 1st in 5 of 7 categories, and placed 2nd and 3rd in the remaining 2. Truly the Maestro and worthy of five WDC titles.

To duplicate these findings, go to members.atlasf1.com/williams, (see link below) click on "Select Champions", add Moss, and press "Finish".

[Williams]

Wolf you caught my post just before I deleted it to do exactly that

Actually I would love to also run Nuvolari (my second second fav driver after Gilles) as well, but I have no stats on him.

[Wolf]

Much obliged, Williams. You just made my day. BTW, give us Your top 5, if I'm not bothering You too much.

[JPMCrew]

That's great, but terribly misleading until you include an index for how good the car was that year compared to the other cars. For example, a Nigel Mansell win in 1992 should not equal a Senna win that same year simply because Mansell's Williams was far superior to Sennas McLaren.

If you could include such an index in your computations, I'd think the numbers would be more meaningful.

[Williams]

With Pleasure

Gilles
Nuvolari
Clark
J.M.Fangio
Stewart

then...

Moss
Schumacher
Mansell
Ascari
Prost
Senna
Jones
Rosberg

JPM, I have sort of a way of dealing with that, in which the difference between drivers results and teammates results are found. Sort of provides a baseline for the driver to be compared against, on the theory that as good as the teammate drives, so should the driver be able to, somewhat mitigating the effect of the car. You can click "compare teammates" on my website.

BTW, regarding Nigel's supercar, couldn't you say the same thing about 1988 McLaren ;) ?[p][Edited by Williams on 01-19-2001]

[Wolf]

Oh, a man of equisite taste.;) Makes me kinda sorry we're taking different sides in Gilles case.

[Williams]

Oh yeah... Well I kind of apologized for that in my first post on the case. But Gilles is in a class by himself, a RACER, not an points-collector. That's the way I look at it.

[Wolf]

Yeah, I like (and respect, but that's not a big deal ) him for that but that is exactly what I think he must have had. If only he had opportunity like Moss- to learn from a great man. And he's the only 'usual' suspect that I'm very sorry not to include int THE greats. But, when it comes to greats- I'll rate him over 'SS twins' any day (big drivers, not even greats, IMHO). I know, this will cost me many a acquaintace.;)

[ASaSeN]

Seriously you cant really say which drivers were the best in particular order,but you can say who were the best bunch.


In no particular order.

Senna
Schumacher
Prost
Clark
Fangio

Of the modern era Senna,prost,Schumacher are the obvious,and only picks.

[Williams]

ASaSeN I dont know about that. I think the problem is all you hear about is Prost, Senna, Senna, Prost, but there were some other good drivers in the 80's that some people might like, if we are talking about favourite drivers.

Mansell was actually a hell of a driver, even before he won in the Williams supercar in '92. He came within 44 miles and a single blown tire of winning the WDC in 1986. If you like passion for the sport, Mansell mortgaged his house to keep his career alive, before he managed to get his big break.

Niki Lauda was the "Michael Schumacher" of his day, a cool, clear-thinking strategest and a driving-machine of a man. He bought his way into F1 by convincing a bank to loan him money to buy a car, and finally managed to squirm into the sport properly just before the bank brought their foot down. He actually managed to convince the bank to take some sponsorship space on his car in lieu of payment. Once he got going he became a 3-time champion, once coming back from a three-year retirement to take his third title in '84. Of course he is mostly remembered for his big crash at Nurburgring. Only six weeks after nearly dying of burn injuries, he was back in the car.

Senna, Prost and Schumacher were not the only good F1 drivers on the planet in the modern era.

[ASaSeN]

Senna,prost,Schumacher were not the ONLY great drivers in the modern era,but they were the best no doubt!

No other drivers in the modern era were better than these 3.

Mansell was very good but he was clearly not as good as these 3,the same for lauda.

You could argue that anyone of these 3 was the greatest driver ever.The same cant be said for anyone else in the modern era.

[Chris]

Williams,

The way you compute is interesting but the fastest lap in race seems to me a "consolation prize".

To set a pole, to win a race or finish on a podium are goals that every driver pursue. But best lap not, when a driver set a pole and is going to win a race, there are few chances that he would set a best lap.
I wouldn't count this stat for evaluating the performance.