147 replies to this topic

[Ray Bell]

Robert Bailey has sent me these pics to post, they're from a test day at Calder:







And one of Bib Stillwell's BT11:



Over to you, Robert...

[fivestar]

first time I have ever heard of a BT31. Is this a BT30 chassis with a Repco V8?
thanks and kindly excuse my ignorance - Mike

[Lola5000]

first time I have ever heard of a BT31. Is this a BT30 chassis with a Repco V8?
thanks and kindly excuse my ignorance - Mike

a one of chassis,I'm told F3 chassis with extra strength.

[Ray Bell]

.

Edited by Ray Bell, 15 April 2016 - 05:37.

[Paul Hamilton]

first time I have ever heard of a BT31. Is this a BT30 chassis with a Repco V8?
thanks and kindly excuse my ignorance - Mike

The BT31 is a one off which was built for Jack to use in the 1969 Tasman series. However it became involved in a shipping delay and only arrived in Australia in time for one event at Sandown. Jack subsequently drove it to win an Australian Gold Star race at Bathurst in Easter 1969 but those two events were the only use it saw until resurected for historic racing in the late '80s. Chassis and suspension are similar to BT28/29/30.

[Lola5000]

The last Brabham built with a Repco V8.Its in the same condition as when Bib raced her.The sound is fantastic,one forgets what a true race car engine sounds like compared to production style engines turned to race engines.
Great addition to local historic racing.

[brucemoxon]

That car (the BT31) ran at the Tasman Revival, didn't it?

If it's the same car, it certainly sounded wonderful.





Bruce Moxon

[Lola5000]

same car.

[Dick Willis]

Does the "new owner" have a name or is it a secret ?

[Paul Hamilton]

Does the "new owner" have a name or is it a secret ?

Peter Strauss is the new owner, Dick. He has been keen to get a Repco powered car for a while and had looked at a few others.

[cavvy]

Is it allowed to run with the wings as at Bathurst

http://www.autopics....c.html?cache=no

[Paul Hamilton]

Is it allowed to run with the wings as at Bathurst

http://www.autopics....c.html?cache=no

No. Suspension mounted wings such as the BT31 originally used at the rear have been banned for many years on safety grounds by both CAMS and the FIA.

[Ray Bell]

That wing arrangement always intrigued me...

During the Tasman series we'd seen Piers Courage with the wings as run by Brabham in the latter races of the '68 World Championship series, yet this car went back to a single wing... and a relatively small one at that... across the rear rather than Ron's 'bi-wing' arrangement with the pivot in the middle.

Maybe it was because both Sandown and Bathurst had long straights?

[TerryS]

There is a very interesting article on the early days of this car here:

https://primotipo.com/2015/02/

[Lee Nicolle]

Why is it blue? It was raced red,, with wings.

[rasimmo]

You mean when it looked like this?

 

 

And Bathurst was a lot scarier without the cement wall on the inside.

Simmo

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Lee Nicolle
Why is it blue? It was raced red,, with wings.

There's no obligation for these cars to be in original livery, Lee...

I don't remember what oolour it was when Bill Marshall had it, but clearly Stillwell liked the early-sixties Brabham colour. He and Jack both used it on their BT4s.

[bill p]

There's no obligation for these cars to be in original livery, Lee...

I don't remember what oolour it was when Bill Marshall had it, but clearly Stillwell liked the early-sixties Brabham colour. He and Jack both used it on their BT4s.

 

Ray, I know there's no obligation but why not have cars in their original livery??  

 

The "turquoise" & yellow stripe colour scheme was, of course, used for Jack's 1970 BT33 Formula 1 campaign

 

Bill P

[Ray Bell]

You raise a good point there, Bill...

Many cars have been through a few hands 'in period' and with each change ownership they've often had a change of colours. This car, however, did not.

Perhaps for some cars in this unique situation it might be appropriate to expect - or even legislate for - retention of the original colours.

And yes, the BT33 was one very good looking car and its colour certainly didn't detract from its attractive appearance.

[bill p]

.....Many cars have been through a few hands 'in period' and with each change ownership they've often had a change of colours. This car, however, did not..........

But the BT31 is red in Post #17 !!

[Wirra]

Was it 'painted' red or was that just the gelcoat?

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by bill p
But the BT31 is red in Post #17!

That's right, Bill...

It only ever raced in red 'in period'. The turquoise was in Stillwell's ownership, which was in its life as an Historic car.

If you look at the sequence of the posts on the subject you'll see that my posts have been consistent.

[bill p]

Ray, thank you for your posts on this thread - a beautiful car no matter what colour!!

Bill

[Lee Nicolle]

That's right, Bill...

It only ever raced in red 'in period'. The turquoise was in Stillwell's ownership, which was in its life as an Historic car.

If you look at the sequence of the posts on the subject you'll see that my posts have been consistent.

Brabham raced it twice in red, some of the pics though make it look orange. 

The green and gold it seems was Stilwell while not original did look smart. The blue is a let down and is a LATER colorscheme that Jack used.

The lack of wing too is a very major shortcoming seemingly by historic rules,,,, so they race a car as a historic NOT as it raced in period. That is bloody stupid.

[Ray Bell]

Lee, how could you write rules to force people to paint their cars a certain colour?

Late model tintops, that I can (to a degree) understand. They are fan-base 'Historics' rather than cars which are historic.

Who would want an Elfin Mono the colour Mel McEwin had his, for instance?

To segregate a few 'very historic' cars and then oblige the owners to make them a certain colour would require committees, meetings, unpleasant moments and possibly even alienate the owner so he would go home and sell the car overseas!

Just to make a suggestion, next week go out to Mallala and watch Dick Carter and ask yourself, "is it better to see that car driven to its absolute limit, or should we ask him to paint it another colour?"

As for the turquoise colour, it was used by Jack in his first outing in a World Championship race (Nurburgring, 1962) and have a look at page 289 of the AGP book.

[timbo]

Bill Marshall in the Brabham (I think) at Oran Park, 1980's sometime.

 

[cooper997]

And in JB's hands at February 1969 Sandown Tasman round (previously posted in the 2015 Phillip Island Classic thread.)

 

Also worth noting that under Bib's ownership it was extensively rebuilt after he came unstuck at the March 96 Geelong Speed Trials. Split the car in two and lwas very lucky to have survived.

 

Stephen

[GreenMachine]

Ray, the first of the photos you posted on 17/4/11 won't appear for me - if that is fixable, I would appreciate seeing it.

 

If it is not, are the rest of them going to go, and can anything be done to prevent it?

[Ray Bell]

Fixed...

I hope the others remain stable. I pay an annual fee to Imageshack but they aren't very trustworthy. I'm using Post Image now.

[timbo]

Fixed...

I hope the others remain stable. I pay an annual fee to Imageshack but they aren't very trustworthy. I'm using Post Image now.

I'm using Photobucket, with reasonable success. The only problem I have with them is sizing the image to be posted. it seems to have a mind of its own, and posts a large image.

Should I ever use up my free allowance with Photobucket, I will probably just create another free gmail account with a different user name, and carry on posting images using the new email address.

[Lola5000]

Bib also ran the car in his traditional colour's of BRG with a yellow nose

[Ray Bell]

Timbo, you should be setting the size of the images yourself before you upload them...

I use Irfanview, which is a free download and just a breeze to use. What I have seen of Photobucket it's a real pain, but I've never actually used it.

Post image seems pretty good, but it will eventually become necessary to have a lot of 'folders' within the account to enable stuff to be found readily.

[GreenMachine]

Fixed...

I hope the others remain stable. I pay an annual fee to Imageshack but they aren't very trustworthy. I'm using Post Image now.

 

Thanks Ray.

I use Smugmug, also annual fee, and have had no problems.

[TerryS]

Getting this thread back on topic, in relation to what colour it should now run in it is interesting to look at the CAMS Regulations.

Section 3 of the CAMS manual covers the regulations for "Historic Cars"

Para 3.1.2 Philosophy states "the express purpose of these regulations is to ensure that vehicles in the various groups compete in a condition , mechanically and visually, compatible with period of racing being portrayed "upgrading" in whatever form is not permitted".

However Para 3.1.3 appears to contradict the stringency of this. This Para states "Paintwork and signage" The original style of paintwork and livery is encouraged".

Note this latter rule states it is only encouraged and not compulsory.

I hope someone understands that.

[bill p]

Getting this thread back on topic, in relation to what colour it should now run in it is interesting to look at the CAMS Regulations.Section 3 of the CAMS manual covers the regulations for "Historic Cars"Para 3.1.2 Philosophy states "the express purpose of these regulations is to ensure that vehicles in the various groups compete in a condition , mechanically and visually, compatible with period of racing being portrayed "upgrading" in whatever form is not permitted".However Para 3.1.3 appears to contradict the stringency of this. This Para states "Paintwork and signage" The original style of paintwork and livery is encouraged".Note this latter rule states it is only encouraged and not compulsory.I hope someone understands that.

I'm glad the word encouraged is used.........

[Lee Nicolle]

Getting this thread back on topic, in relation to what colour it should now run in it is interesting to look at the CAMS Regulations.

Section 3 of the CAMS manual covers the regulations for "Historic Cars"

Para 3.1.2 Philosophy states "the express purpose of these regulations is to ensure that vehicles in the various groups compete in a condition , mechanically and visually, compatible with period of racing being portrayed "upgrading" in whatever form is not permitted".

However Para 3.1.3 appears to contradict the stringency of this. This Para states "Paintwork and signage" The original style of paintwork and livery is encouraged".

Note this latter rule states it is only encouraged and not compulsory.

I hope someone understands that.

I for one cannot see the point of running a car, especially one raced by someone of Jacks calibre, in historics in your own colors. 

And whatever the rules [often dumb] the car was raced with a wing[s] and it should have them now as a historic.

 

As I have runs a classic Speedway Supermodified for over 20 years the car runs in the color scheme from the period I liked it in best. 

 

In the case of this car with TWO period racemeets under its belt it should be obvious,,,,,,,yes?

[Lee Nicolle]

Timbo, you should be setting the size of the images yourself before you upload them...

I use Irfanview, which is a free download and just a breeze to use. What I have seen of Photobucket it's a real pain, but I've never actually used it.

Post image seems pretty good, but it will eventually become necessary to have a lot of 'folders' within the account to enable stuff to be found readily.

As a techno phobe I can use and make folders in Post Image. The only problem to me seems to be the pics dont stay in the order you put them up which can be annoying if you are trying to run a theme.

I have tried others which for me is too hard.

[TerryS]

As a techno phobe I can use and make folders in Post Image. The only problem to me seems to be the pics dont stay in the order you put them up which can be annoying if you are trying to run a theme.
I have tried others which for me is too hard.

Why do people do posts that have absolutely NOTHING to do with the topic of the thread?

[cooper997]

A particularly wet and gloomy day at the November 1994 Geelong Speed Trials. Bib Stillwell gets ready to drop the clutch

Stephen

Edited by cooper997, 19 April 2016 - 07:37.

[SJ Lambert]

As reported in Australian Autosportsman in May 1969.  Jack Brabham's own car for the 69 Tasman series was effectively a one off built around a F3 chassis to accommodate an 830 Series RB engine and a FT200.

 

What a great car it was/is!!

 

 

 

picture reproduced from the cover of AA.

 

Article and further photos of the car as it's currently presented to follow.

[TerryS]

There appear to be two conflicting stories on this car:

https://primotipo.co...-car-episode-4/

http://lightscarsact...ham-1968-bt-31/

Take your pick.....

[SJ Lambert]

[SJ Lambert]

[SJ Lambert]

[SJ Lambert]

 

Graham Howard's article

[SJ Lambert]

There appear to be two conflicting stories on this car:

https://primotipo.co...-car-episode-4/

http://lightscarsact...ham-1968-bt-31/

Take your pick.....

 

 

No contest, Mark Bisset's piece with input from Rodway Wolfe takes the cake.

[SJ Lambert]

 

John Bowe just onto the main straight, Sandown Historics 2017

[SJ Lambert]

Here's the less contentious end......

 

 

[SJ Lambert]

Personally, I'd rather see it running around as an ANF1(2.5 litre) car in Group P looking like it did in the OP!

Edited by SJ Lambert, 18 November 2017 - 08:34.

[Tim Murray]

Anyone claiming that it was ever intended to be an F1 car should be asked where all the fuel required to complete an F1 GP was going to go.