27 replies to this topic

[Irvine`s Love Child]

When the Monza banking was in use and there were parallel circuit straights past the pits, ( one coming from parabolica and one from the banking ) did cars cut across the flow of traffic to enter the pits ?

Or were they only allowed to enter the pits coming from the parabolica section of track ?

[Bernd]

Correct they could only enter the pit lane from the exit of the Parabolica. The straight of the banking was seperated from the straight out of Parabolica.

It would have been insanely dangerous for anyone to try and cross over from the banking side though it was probably possible at some points.

[Irvine`s Love Child]

Thanks for the clarification Bernd.

Cheers

Eddie jnr

[jarama]

Originally posted by Bernd
Correct they could only enter the pit lane from the exit of the Parabolica. The straight of the banking was seperated from the straight out of Parabolica.

Actually, the separation was a mere line of loose marking cones... so, certainly was possible if only phisically speaking.

[Bernd]

Yeah I know I mentioned that is was possible but would a sane man attempt it????

[Wolf]

Sorry to butt in with a slight OT, but are those cones the ones Moss mentiones in 'All But My Life'? To clarify, speaking of stupuid rules he said that Monza officials put a set of cones on one part of the track and if driver knocked any of them over, he'd be DQd. He doesn't give the year but, IIRC, he mentiones Graham Hill winning the race.

[FucF1]

Is this the place where all the oldies hang out? Wooaaa, creepy....

Anyway, speaking of the Monza banking it puts an excellent appearence in during the movie GrandPrix. Just in case someone was interested ;)

[Ross Stonefeld]

Did they time the cars every second time by start/finish then?

[Wolf]

Ross, I wish I could remember better, but there was discussion on that how Monza race was run then (I distinctly remember the photo from race being posted). I'm fairly sure it was not in thread on the film.

[Don Capps]

I saw the 1955, and 1958 thru 1960 GP d'Italia. The S/F line was the lane in front of the pits which were the timing & scoring were done. And they used those silly cones to separate the inner & outer lanes...

[Ray Bell]

Moss is talking about 1962 all right, but there was no use of the banking for that race, the cones were merely there to narrow the road.

And I made a mistake on a post a few days ago crediting DSJ with making this statement...

[Roger Clark]

Originally posted by Don Capps
I saw the 1955, and 1958 thru 1960 GP d'Italia. The S/F line was the lane in front of the pits which were the timing & scoring were done. And they used those silly cones to separate the inner & outer lanes...

Don, your post seems to imply that the start was in the lane nearer to the pits and therefore that the first corner was the banking. I can't find any evidence, but I thought that the first half lap was the road cicuit.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Why was Monza built in this configuration? It seems quite...italian?

[William Dale Jr]

Another question, still related to the banking however. When the track was built in 1925, wasn't there an oval circuit built too? And if so, when the new banking was built, was it just built over the top of the old circuit or what?

[Rob29]

The original 1922 oval was destroyed pre-war I think,not in the war. It was being rebuilt(the circuit that is) in 1939,wich caused the Italian GP for that year to be cancelled,and the 1940 one allocated to Pescara-which was in the event also cancelled when the Italians joined in the war. The new banking seems to have been built in roughly the same place as the old one.

[fines]

Originally posted by Roger Clark
Don, your post seems to imply that the start was in the lane nearer to the pits and therefore that the first corner was the banking. I can't find any evidence, but I thought that the first half lap was the road cicuit.

I was thinking the same! Can we clarify this?

[Barry Boor]

I am sure that the first corner after the start was the Curva Grande; therefore, the timing must have been done on the Grandstand side of the road, otherwise they would always have been half a lap out of sinc. I imagine that the timing in those days was just a bunch of blokes holding stopwatches; or am I wrong in that?

Of course, pit stops must have been made after coming out of Parabolica, (or Vedano, as I believe it was when there were two right angle [or nearly] corners where Parabolica now is.) Then leaving the pits would take them up onto the banking, so the pits were halfway round the lap. A bit like Anderstorp, but different, if you see what I mean.

As an aside to this, it has just struck me; what happens in the film Grand Prix? Without going to put it on, I have this feeling that the cars run down to the Curva Grande after the start - but then I also have the feeling that Aron and Stoddard race to the finish after leaving the Parabolica. Is this slightly wrong? Or is it me......????

[Roger Clark]

The Parabolica replaced the Vedano when the banking was built. This is a picture of the start in 1955.

[Don Capps]

Sorry, fingers and mind not linked today.

Start into the Curva Grande, past the pits from the Curvetta, onto the Curva Nord and then finish the lap out of the Curva Sud. Doh!!! When I looked at what I wrote I went, "HUH? Say, What?"

I have spent most the day running around trying to the hot water hot so my mental feebleness has been worse than usual. Total brain fade today.

BTW, I watched the 1955 race from the tribunes, near the southern end just before the pits. In 1960, I watched most of the race from near the curvetta. 1959 I watched from the pit area ( ) and I saw the 1958 race up at the area twix Roggia and Lesmo.

Timing was from the PITS, but the lookig across to the point on the other side of the cones. And, yes, it was largely a bunch of guys with stopwatches and lap charts...

[GunStar]

Does anybody have a map/drawing of the track including the banking. I've never seen one and would like to.

Thanks.

[Wolf]

Gunstar, I think this should be it. I hope Darren will not mind me posting an image from his site.


And here's a hijacked document from his site on Monza History. He may have saved it with wrong extension (.his) so my browser opened it as text (showing all HTML commands). In order to make it easier to read, I've saved it with .htm extension and U/Led it to my webspace. This is not my document, and if anyone (Darren in particular) minds I'll remove it ASAP. Darren's Monza History
[p][Edited by Wolf on 01-20-2001]

[Gil Bouffard]

I have this really great book entitled, " The World Atlas of Motor Racing," By Joe Saward (1989 Mallard Press). There is an excellent shot from 1955 showing Fangio in the Mercedes streamliner coming off Parabolica followed by Kling and Taruffi in normal W-196's while Hawthorn in a Ferrari Super Squalo leads Moss off the banking.

Additionally, I just happened to be watching the 1956 GP of Monza from the video "A Gentleman's Motor Racing Diary." I noticed that an official ran out to place a cone on the circuit after the start of the race which was on the grandstand side. A lap started on the road racing side of the circuit and meant that the cars were on the pit straight before heading out on to the banking.

One of Mr. Tate's cameras or camera crew was positioned along the straight leading to Parabolica, in about the spot where Von Trips had his fatal crash.

BTW I have seen copies of the book containing super track illustrations by Jim Bamber in used book stores.. Anyone interested?

Gil

[Wolf]

I knew I was not crazy... And that it'll be hard to prove. There was small thread while ago:
Monza Thread and there Don posted the photo I remembered so vividly.

[Roger Clark]

THe old Vedano corner was paved with cobble stones. When it was replaced by te Parabolica in 1955, the stones were used to surface the paddock. does anybody know if they're still there, or more likely, when the disappeared?

[Don Capps]

Gil, there were officials at the tribune for the 'flag waving' linked by field phone to the scoring tables above the pits. Plus IIRC there was an 'official' box on the tribune side for the ACI biggies and hangers-on. Remember what we are dealing with here...

[Don Capps]

Looking at the posted circuit map, let me run you through a lap of the 10.000km full circuit, using the names that I know them by -- and without any of the damn chicanes...

Start on the tribune side of the Rettilineo Tribune,
into the Curva Grande,
then through the Curva della Roggia,
into Lesmo,
through the Curva del Serraglio and under the banking,
into the Curva del Vialone,
along the Rettilineo Centrale,
into the Curvetta (we NEVER called the 'Parabolica'),
back on the Rettilineo Tribune and past the pits (pista),
into the Curva Nord alta Velocita,
along the Rettilineo Est,
into the Curva Sud alta Velocita,
and back onto the Rettilineo Tribune...

[MattSmith]

Does anyone know if the little road coming onto the pit straight next to the south banking is just an access road or is it something to do with the old oval circuit.

[Marco94]

Matt,

The most recent version of the Monza Banking was build in the early 1950's. Before that, the back straight and the S/F straight were longer and connected by two sharp, almost 90 degree corners. This former piece of S/F straight, is what's dangling near the South banking.

You can check out Monzasport for more info.

Marco.