33 replies to this topic

[MatsNorway]

After some discussions on a forum dedicated to MBTI and other psychology teories. Most of the peope came to think of the following drivers as:

Ayrton Senna: INFJ or INTJ
Micheal Schumacher: ISTP or INTJ

Being a INTJ myself i don`t see senna even close to being a INTJ but rather a INFJ.
Schumacher was my best bet for INTJ. ISTP is very similar in the looks but has less natural talent for planning and strategies. ISTP also enjoys things for the thrill of it.. Schumacher has a more enjoyment from the mastering of it.. So i still doubt him being a ISTP. My girlfriend also is a ISTP and the P othen is a indicator of less order, system and a long term plan.

I would also guess that Alain Prost is a good candicate for INTJ.

about the discussed profiles.

http://www.personali...e.com/ISTP.html
http://www.personali...e.com/INFJ.html
http://www.personali.../html/INTJ.html
http://www.systemsth...mind/intj.shtml

For those of you who are unfamiliar to MBTI.. its all on google or wiki
http://www.personali...four-temps.html
im not going to learn it all to you other than that mika hakkinen and kimi raikonen seems to be introverts. and remember.. its not the same as shy. I could see raikonen as a ISTP.

Montoya seems like a extroverted feeler. that means hes feelings would be largely visible on the outside when he f.ex got angry. Same goes for trulli. He seems like a feeler dominant person. Same as Ayrton and Rubens.

lewis seems to be a introverted feeler. and a thinker dominant person, most drivers in F1 are probably thinker dominants.

Test your self with a indicator test here:
http://similarminds.com/embj.html

Edited by MatsNorway, 28 April 2011 - 10:05.

[Anderis]

I'm suprised as you are considering many drivers as an INTJ. I'm an INTJ and I don't see in F1 any driver who has simillar personality to me. Maybe it's due to that it's hard to recognise their's real personalities in that kind of competition. Or maybe the problem is inside me.

I will follow this thread because it seems to be interesting for me. But I have always had problems with judging other people so I can't exactly tell what I think about F1 drivers and their's MBTI types.

[MatsNorway]

I'm suprised as you are considering many drivers as an INTJ. I'm an INTJ and I don't see in F1 any driver who has simillar personality to me. Maybe it's due to that it's hard to recognise their's real personalities in that kind of competition. Or maybe the problem is inside me.

Its a god point that the the older they get the more difficult it gets to analyse them. Key thing here for me is what they say and how they relate to things.. Schumacher enjoys racing much the same way i enjoy riding on the rear wheel on my bicycle. I like the feel of mastering it. schumacher stated the same about racing/driving hes FXX. hes pulse would hardly go up. thats the main reason hes known for hardly sweating.. he does not get a buzz out of it. He drives if for the mastering aspect.

Prost i know nothing about. He could just as easily be something else. He just strikes me as a planner and a calculative type wich is supposedly a trait in a INTJ. im more close to a ISTP myself so i can`t say the stereotypical INTJ fits me.

about senna and Michael.
http://www.typologyc...rton-senna.html
http://www.typologyc...schumacher.html

I will follow this thread because it seems to be interesting for me. But I have always had problems with judging other people so I can't exactly tell what I think about F1 drivers and their's MBTI types.

Im mostly only god at the types i have dated.. ISTP, ESFP; ESTP and ENFP as that type is fairly easy to read if they are a stereotypical one.

My boss is a ESTP btw and he too fits the descrition. such a bad planner.. but very good with people and a good administrator and problem solver in a crisis or under sudden chance of plans.

ofc you could also go by the clothes, tattos, jewlery, interest of race track. and so on. dominantly dark clothes is a giveaway for introverts..
Sensors is more prone to race cars, drinking, partys.. snowboard, skateboard, BMX.. action things really.. What they do alot off racetrack or after racing is a giveaway for their type.

What did Prost do after the carreer ended in F1?

Edited by MatsNorway, 28 April 2011 - 13:07.

[f1fan1998]

ENFJ for me. it says (as i always suspected) that i am able to use my skills to persuade and manipulate people but that i shouldn't. hmmmm interesting, but based on the sponsorship work i do, i think i will continue to manipulate them thank you very much.

it didn't mention anything about whether i would be an ideal f1 driver though. shame.

[olliek88]

Very interesting test, just took it and apparently I'm a ISTP, possibly the same as shuey then,

Just checked the favoured careers for ISTP and my job (electrician) is on the list, woop!

Edited by olliek88, 28 April 2011 - 14:42.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Saying that Michael Schumacher is a certain personality type is about as specific as saying he's German.

[Bunchies]

I think the DSM-IV personality types are much more accurate. They are created out of observation and psychological studies.

[DREW]

"Schumacher enjoys racing much the same way i enjoy riding on the rear wheel on my bicycle."

With our hands out...and our eyes closed.

Somewhere (Norway?) a guy is my twin.

[Bloggsworth]

I always theought that the PGHR of a driver was of more significance during the driving process, but that when it came to the intellectual side, i.e. the debriefing, the out of car race planning, the HNRF was the more dominant requirement. I suppose, ideally, a driver could manage very well without the latter, but not without the former, as HNRF can, in large part, be handled by another team member.

[Risil]

Saying that Michael Schumacher is a certain personality type is about as specific as saying he's German.

No race team has deliberately set out to hire a set of ISTP drivers, though. Yet.

Edited by Risil, 28 April 2011 - 20:34.

[MatsNorway]

No race team has deliberately set out to hire a set of ISTP drivers, though. Yet.

Considering how clumsy my girlfriend is sometimes i would not do so either..
nah seriously.. its all about training.. but the natural talents you are born with comes in as a bonus.. say good at analysing the setup, strategies. etc..

To narrow it down further you could go on talking about jungs type and enneagram type..

What are you talking about bloggsworth?

Edited by MatsNorway, 29 April 2011 - 06:43.

[Ibsey]

There was a bit of analysis on this subject in a book called Overdrive (by Clyde Booth). Off the top of my head, it argues the best F1 drivers are "cheap sponges".

Cheap - basically means that they know how to save their energy (i.e. similar to Alan Prost or Fangio's theory of winning at the slowest possible speed)

&

Sponges - because of the amount of information they need to absorb whilst they are racing.


As I say, this is all from the top of my head, & i haven't read the book since last year, so there may be more to it than that.

[Chezrome]

I have been researching the use of the Meyer Briggs test for sports for a couple of years now, both with my tennispupils and the students I teach at the undergraduate college I work for. Coincidentally enough, yesterday I did the second edition of a workshop in which we use the results of MBTI to experiment with ways of concentrating. I've designed something of a model for the Meyer Briggs test and visual strategies for tennis...

I am not going in depth here, because I want to keep some things for myself, but in short:

The more extravert someone is, the more that person should narrow his visual focus on things close to him or her. The more introvert someone is, the more that person should broaden his visual focus. So if a ESFP person looks for his keys on a full and cluttered desk, he or she should stand very close to the surface of that desk, and search inch for inch. While an INTJ person (like me) should take six of seven steps BACK and try to sweep the complete surface.

This means for for tennis or golf: a ESFP or ENFP person (extravert, guided by senses and feeling (emotions) and perceiving rather than judging, should lock and narrow his or her visual focus on something very close to the body, for example: the exact place where the racket hits the ball or the club hits the bal (Roger Federer, Nick Faldo). While a INTJ or ISTP (Tiger Woods, Jack Nicklaus, Chris Evert) should see the whole tenniscourt or golfcourse as much as possible to focus.

So, in my estimation, Michael Schumacher is a ENTP. He once told in an interview he has trouble with driving cars in which he can't see the wheels. This indicates that his strategy is narrowing his visual focus to something close, and because he is very succesfull at what he does, he seems to have chosen the right strategy... hence: an E, at least.

[glorius&victorius]

i think there are just 2 types of drivers:

1) winners - all cost - and who cannot accept not-winning
2) those that compromise and can live with it (i.e. losers)

Edited by glorius&victorius, 29 April 2011 - 13:36.

[Chezrome]

i think there are just 2 types of drivers:

1) winners - all cost - and who cannot accept not-winning
2) those that compromise and can live with it (i.e. losers)

1. With number 1 I think of Mourinho, the coach of Real Madrid now. Often a winner but the sorest loser.
2. At number 2 I think of Aerton Senna. He wanted to win always, but had respect for other capable drivers. Loser, in your viewpoint.

Edited by Chezrome, 29 April 2011 - 13:51.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Senna was willing to compromise and not win at all costs?

[Brandz07]

I got...


INFJ - "Author". Strong drive and enjoyment to help others. Complex personality. 1.5% of total population.

same as Senna

[Bloggsworth]

Perhaps we should check their handwriting before chosing drivers. You can make a personality type fit a profile by ignoring what is inconvenient, exactly what soothsayers do in fairground booths. I read through the list of "Types" and it read just like a horoscope, plenty of generalisations which can be bent to suit what you want to tell/hear - "You have had trouble in your life/lost a loved one/suffered an illness/had an accident" - Who hasn't? Archetypes are only archetypes if they conform exactly to specification, which of course they don't; which is how we get John Daley and Gary Player, two more different characters you couldn't wish for, yet both in their time at the top of their profession; similarly Ivan Lendl and John McEnroe.

INTJs direct their energy towards the inner world of thoughts and emotions. They use their imaginations to come up with new ideas, possibilities and perspectives. They often organise their lives on a logical basis, and produce plans and strategies to put their ideas into practice.

ISFJs direct their energy towards the inner world of thoughts and emotions. They try to clarify ideas and information, particularly when it relates to people and important relationships. They are quiet, serious observers of people, and are often both conscientious and loyal.

INFJs direct their energy towards the inner world of thoughts and emotions. They use their imagination to come up with new ideas, possibilities and insights, especially in relation to people and important beliefs. They are often good at developing insight into people, though it can often remain unexpressed.

Notice any similarity in the opening sentences?


Who isn't any or all of the above - pick out which one applies to you - Actually you don't need to, your brain will already have picked the bits you agree with and dismissed the ones you don't agree with in such a way as not to actually register in your conscious mind. Read your horoscope, it will tell you that

You will deal with money today/meet someone new/see a beautiful woman/man - Yep, I bought a cup of coffee, never met the girl at the till before, she was pretty fit - Yee Har! My horoscope was entirely true......

Racing drivers are as different as chalk and cheese, but not in ways which can be so easily pigeon-holed by acronyms...........

Edited by Bloggsworth, 29 April 2011 - 16:46.

[Chezrome]

Perhaps we should check their handwriting before chosing drivers. You can make a personality type fit a profile by ignoring what is inconvenient, exactly what soothsayers do in fairground booths. I read through the list of "Types" and it read just like a horoscope, plenty of generalisations which can be bent to suit what you want to tell/hear - "You have had trouble in your life/lost a loved one/suffered an illness/had an accident" - Who hasn't? Archetypes are only archetypes if they conform exactly to specification, which of course they don't; which is how we get John Daley and Gary Player, two more different characters you couldn't wish for, yet both in their time at the top of their profession; similarly Ivan Lendl and John McEnroe.

INTJs direct their energy towards the inner world of thoughts and emotions. They use their imaginations to come up with new ideas, possibilities and perspectives. They often organise their lives on a logical basis, and produce plans and strategies to put their ideas into practice.

ISFJs direct their energy towards the inner world of thoughts and emotions. They try to clarify ideas and information, particularly when it relates to people and important relationships. They are quiet, serious observers of people, and are often both conscientious and loyal.

INFJs direct their energy towards the inner world of thoughts and emotions. They use their imagination to come up with new ideas, possibilities and insights, especially in relation to people and important beliefs. They are often good at developing insight into people, though it can often remain unexpressed.

Notice any similarity in the opening sentences?


Who isn't any or all of the above - pick out which one applies to you - Actually you don't need to, your brain will already have picked the bits you agree with and dismissed the ones you don't agree with in such a way as not to actually register in your conscious mind. Read your horoscope, it will tell you that

You will deal with money today/meet someone new/see a beautiful woman/man - Yep, I bought a cup of coffee, never met the girl at the till before, she was pretty fit - Yee Har! My horoscope was entirely true......

Racing drivers are as different as chalk and cheese, but not in ways which can be so easily pigeon-holed by acronyms...........

I agree with you that often tests like these are written as horoscopes: they are thus formulated that everyone can recognise themselves in it. As a teacher at a (undergraduate) college and tenniscoach, I've seen a lot of these tests and not all of them are valid.

However. I do have to make an exception for the Meyer Briggs-test and I think you are not well informed about this test. The MBTI test not only has indications about personality traits, but there is a lot empirical data about visual strategies of the different types, the way people's muscles work and even how the pelvic bone is held in the underbody. I've lent most of my material to a coach of the Dutch tennisfederation so I can't give quick examples. Let it suffice that if I know the acronyms of my students and if I have my material ready, I can predict with about a 99 percent accuracy how they move their arms, shoulders, feet and hips...

[MatsNorway]

Perhaps we should check their handwriting before chosing drivers. You can make a personality type fit a profile by ignoring what is inconvenientblablabla

I have tested and speed readed several people and this stuff works fairly good. And im by no means a expert..

De reason those decriptions are similar is because the types are all introverted Judgers or more similar.

Try finding similarites between ESFP and INTJ... Me being a INTJ does not even go along with them very well. they.. simply.. hate.. me.. for thinking and focusing so differently than they.. They allways take it personal.. allways..

Main reason i think:
• T -- Thinking preferred to feeling: INTJs tend to value objective criteria above personal preference. When making decisions they generally give more weight to logic than to social considerations.

Here is some videos from a guy who is very into this..





Remember.. its not a fasit. its hes evaluations..

Edited by MatsNorway, 02 May 2011 - 06:35.

[evo]

from on outside perspective it would be hard to determine their MBTI rating unless they test and publish. You can see traits of certain elements (as in, you can see certain traits and habits come through) but that's really about it.

Schumacher (in a public arena) look like 2 totally different people from Career 1 to 2, but I don't doubt he is by and large the same then and now.


Interesting discussion, but largely a moot point given the accessibility to such data.

[MatsNorway]

from on outside perspective it would be hard to determine their MBTI rating unless they test and publish. You can see traits of certain elements (as in, you can see certain traits and habits come through) but that's really about it.

Schumacher (in a public arena) look like 2 totally different people from Career 1 to 2, but I don't doubt he is by and large the same then and now.


Interesting discussion, but largely a moot point given the accessibility to such data.

It sure is hard to type adults as they adapt to fit what ever they need to be, in a way.. Look at the bill gates typing discussion in the video i added for some good info. grown people tend to stiffen up a bit so they are not as easy to type as kids and young people.

If they are capable of typing people like Isac Newton and so on it should be a walk in the park with the F1 drivers of today with all the interviews and feelings and all that.

Most important thing is to get inf out about the person.. childhood stories about them is a nice place to start. Again se the Bill Gates link in my previous post. Since most of them did racing you would need to look at other things..

[Ross Stonefeld]

When did Isaac Newton take a personality test.

[MatsNorway]

I have been researching the use of the Meyer Briggs test for sports for a couple of years now, both with my tennispupils and the students I teach at the undergraduate college I work for. Coincidentally enough, yesterday I did the second edition of a workshop in which we use the results of MBTI to experiment with ways of concentrating. I've designed something of a model for the Meyer Briggs test and visual strategies for tennis...

I am not going in depth here, because I want to keep some things for myself, but in short:

The more extravert someone is, the more that person should narrow his visual focus on things close to him or her. The more introvert someone is, the more that person should broaden his visual focus. So if a ESFP person looks for his keys on a full and cluttered desk, he or she should stand very close to the surface of that desk, and search inch for inch. While an INTJ person (like me) should take six of seven steps BACK and try to sweep the complete surface.

This means for for tennis or golf: a ESFP or ENFP person (extravert, guided by senses and feeling (emotions) and perceiving rather than judging, should lock and narrow his or her visual focus on something very close to the body, for example: the exact place where the racket hits the ball or the club hits the bal (Roger Federer, Nick Faldo). While a INTJ or ISTP (Tiger Woods, Jack Nicklaus, Chris Evert) should see the whole tenniscourt or golfcourse as much as possible to focus.

So, in my estimation, Michael Schumacher is a ENTP. He once told in an interview he has trouble with driving cars in which he can't see the wheels. This indicates that his strategy is narrowing his visual focus to something close, and because he is very succesfull at what he does, he seems to have chosen the right strategy... hence: an E, at least.

Im a bit suppriced about your approach to MBTI and the way you focus on it.
The focus is not neccesarly the best area to focus on as its given that any player would focus on the ball. difference comes in when its time to make desitions. some types tries to plan what to do and prefer to have a plan. some go better by feel and impulse.

If its needed to have a plan to susceed ESFPs will suffer over say a INTJ.

Another good way to spot atleast a male ESFP is that they are full of fun and loves to play around. doing tricks, laughting, poorly organised. got a lot of stuff, toys.. good with people.. but forget deept in conversations, with two way communication..
I would be supriced if you got a lot of ESFP scores if you use the test at similarminds.com 102 questions variants.

A ESFP friend of mine is a stereotypical one.. does all the things mentioned above.. hes into fotball and is umm.. attacker? good in dribling and overall ball controll. my other friend a ESTJ is a defence wing or something and hes much more "simple" in hes ways..hard working but not as creative in life and fotball. He will typically not invent hes own tricks and fool around so much. being a SJ he will do what he has been told. typical SJ.
he also works as a guard... was in the army.. as a guard. i think hes moving towards fireman now..

Edited by MatsNorway, 02 May 2011 - 11:05.

[TURU]

I am usually very skeptical about any personality tests etc., BUT I was completely amazed by great accuracy of MBTI. I did the test and results seemed fairly close to reality. So encouraged, I went on to read the description of my type (INTP) ..... Enough said it was like reading a description that someone had written especially for me. Reading it was NOT like reading a horoscope where you ignore false bits. It was exactly spot on (both positive and negative traits) Great stuff. As for drivers I'm pretty sure most of them are Introverts. I have no idea about other traits, because judging their personality based on the way they behave on track and during media events may be very misleading.





.... and I still think psychology sucks.

Edited by TURU, 02 May 2011 - 19:01.

[MatsNorway]

When did Isaac Newton take a personality test.

The test is just a indicator.. it might be wrong. The real deal is either self evaluasjon or getting someone skilled to Read you/figure you out. IF you are in doubt..

.... and I still think psychology sucks.

Glad you liked it.. I guess you don`t like it because it lacks a definite answer.

But this is not about us or isaac newton or if this is bollox or not.. its about the drivers folks!
If you don`t like it.. don`t click on this thread.. i will now ignore critics as this thread is not for discussions about MBTIs usefullness etc..
try typologycentral.com etc. for that.

Got stories to share about the drivers? just copy paste interesting stories from their life in here and ill try figure stuff out.. the more the better.

[Bouncing Pink Ball]

MBTI always crops up on a web forum at some point!

As far as the accuracy and reliability of these tests...eh, who knows. I know many folks swear by this sort of thing, going so far as to use personality assessments as part of the job applicant screening process. I've written them myself for this very reason.

My biggest issue with psychological testing, having completed more than a few over the years (I went through an "OMG, the the line between sane and insane is sooo fascinating!!!" phase during university when I pulling out all the psych books at the campus library and volunteered for everyone's psych projects), is that all of them are easy to manipulate if you answer the way that appears logical to the impression you wish to give. But man, if I answer the MBTI properly, do I ever fit the ENTP stereotype perfectly.

As to what would make a good racing driver, well, the SPs (sensation seeking artisans) and the NTs (rational knowledge seekers) would seem the best fits to me but I doubt there's a dominant personality type in the sport.

[Ross Stonefeld]

But MatsNorway doesn't want to hear anything about that. He wants to conduct a semi-scientific study, but he won't have any time to analyse whether the observation methods are consistent or even accurate.

[Scotracer]

These things are far too easy to forge. Don't trust them at all.

[MatsNorway]

As to what would make a good racing driver, well, the SPs (sensation seeking artisans) and the NTs (rational knowledge seekers) would seem the best fits to me but I doubt there's a dominant personality type in the sport.

Im pretty sure there is a dominance towards a spesific set of functions in F1. Just as it is towards artists and engineers.

Again see the videos linked too. about ESFP and ESFJ.

[SimMaker]

INTJ here. Fun test, and I answered accurately as I could.

Am not surprised by the result to be honest, as my career and "position" kind of suggests it would be someone like me. I am a trained engineer that cross trained in to Computer Graphics and now work (lead art) on top end (motorsport and flight) Simulators.


INTJ - "Mastermind". Introverted intellectual with a preference for finding certainty. A builder of systems and the applier of theoretical models. 2.1% of total population.


Just needs "Evil" before mastermind...Muhahahaha. lol.

Edited by SimMaker, 03 May 2011 - 11:50.

[MatsNorway]

INTJ here. Fun test, and I answered accurately as I could.

Am not surprised by the result to be honest, as my career and "position" kind of suggests it would be someone like me. I am a trained engineer that cross trained in to Computer Graphics and now work (lead art) on top end (motorsport and flight) Simulators.

INTJ - "Mastermind". Introverted intellectual with a preference for finding certainty. A builder of systems and the applier of theoretical models. 2.1% of total population.

Being in CAD design of machines and tools i kinda go within the classical definition of INTJ myself career vise. Reading up on it i tick in most of the stats for INTJ.

Just needs "Evil" before mastermind...Muhahahaha. lol.

Add you picture here..
http://4.bp.blogspot...NTJ poster7.jpg

My teory..

Extroverted feelers are usually better at putting in that one important lap. Senna, Trulli.

How is the stats for barrichello at qualifiers?

[SimMaker]

Is there any data on how different drivers approach a lap?

Not saying I am a driver, but I am very very good at video games. Did'nt matter which games studio I ended up working at back in the day, I could always kick everyones arse at Quake. No exceptions. And when I was on GP4 it got the same with driving. Am handy with the modern sims also.

And the way I approach a lap is corner by corner. I work out the exact breaking point I need and hone it lap after lap slowly reeling in a fast lap. Usually by the end of this learning phase I also have enough info to calculate "on the fly" what I should do if I approach a corner in less than optimum circumstance. Late brake, more throttle, etc...whatever. So I certinaly would'nt have a natural "out of the box" flow around a lap...but over a period of time I'd "work it out".

How do pro drivers learn a lap? I'm amazed that these guys can just seem to hit it right out of the box. No way I could do that.

[Slowinfastout]

I dated a girl who was in the process of getting her bachelor's degree in psychology.. and man that was such an epic PITA

look for a pattern--->any pattern--->match with definition from stupid book--->pin label on forehead

wash, rinse, repeat