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Rumour no more: Sutil injures Renault owner at Shanghai


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#2251 Wi000

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 21:34

Remember this as an excuse for Sutil
Doesn't that count for Lewis as well?

Lewis doesn't need an excuse for what happened down at that club, unless Sutil decides to draw him into this sad story later on.
What is reprehensible imo is that he declined to testify, be it for or against Sutil and that he just shut out his (former) friend.
That's not the sign of a responsible individual but that of a self-centered prick.

Ps.: Any progress on that link about the relationship Lewis - Adrian going bad after China, or is it again your imagination?

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#2252 Bonaventura

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 21:41

You are right, it is excuse for both of them. But, that guy d'Ambrosio who was maybe far away still decide to turn out and to testify? Is he stupid, is he loser , or he is good citizen. Is he Sutil friend? Some people leave by the rules, principles. Some are just spoiled. Will not move a finger even. Some people say Lewis can't afford to go there????? Will cost him to much? He don't have 500euro to go there?
What was consequences for d'Ambrosio after he testify? Nothing. He just did what was right thing to do.

What did Di'Ambrosio say, or what had he seen?
In a report it was written the only guy who saw something was a whitness from Lux side.
Even on the video you saw nothing.
Lewis (or his lawyer) said BTW they will cooperate , but at the 30.01, he has already other duties.
It was never said Lewis would not testify at all.

#2253 Rakaman

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 21:48

Lewis being called a coward by a convicted criminal? That's fresh.

Also, it should be very clear to anyone with even the most basic understanding of law that Lewis contacting Sutil, particularly after he was charged, could have been as suspect. Ultimately Sutil is the only one responsible for his actions.

#2254 Bonaventura

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 21:48

OMG ... AS was convicted :eek: and LH didnt testify :eek: flippin eck!!

I dont know anything more than I read on this page...but I agree with AS... Not testifying is just weak.

Lewis did testify , he was excused from the court, and was allowed to testify in writing
He also offered his cooperation at another date

#2255 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 21:53

Being how the world is and how we people are... Lewis being in the position he is really didn't afford to get himself mixed with the legal proceedings. It's of course easy to judge him from the ouside but his choice to skip the court is perfectly understandable.



He should have been up front with Sutil and told him his reasons for not testifying. Avoiding your friend and changing your cell phone number is not appropriate behavior.

#2256 ivand911

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 21:55

What did Di'Ambrosio say, or what had he seen?
In a report it was written the only guy who saw something was a whitness from Lux side.
Even on the video you saw nothing.
Lewis (or his lawyer) said BTW they will cooperate , but at the 30.01, he has already other duties.
It was never said Lewis would not testify at all.

I didn't see any video. Court was two days.

About "convicted criminal" Suitl, anyone can be on his place. We all drive cars, which are weapons and everyone unintentionally can harm other people. So ,it is better not to be in his shoes.

Edited by ivand911, 01 February 2012 - 21:57.


#2257 Dalin80

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 21:57

With the trial now over and the contents of this thread rapidly plummeting into planetf1 levels perhaps its time to declare that this thread has run its course, the matter in hand had little to do with actual motorsport to begin with and even less now.

#2258 JRizzle86

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 21:58

http://www.telegraph...-on-Jan-30.html

A trial date has been fixed for Jan 30 and 31 and a spokeswoman for the court was quoted last week in the German press saying that Hamilton’s attendance on Jan 30 was “mandatory”.
Telegraph Sport understands that despite that, Hamilton never received a formal request to testify and that his lawyer voluntarily contacted the judge in question to say that, while Hamilton was happy to co-operate, he had other engagements in the run-up to the launch of McLaren’s new challenger on Feb 1.



#2259 F1Newbie

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 21:59

He should have been up front with Sutil and told him his reasons for not testifying. Avoiding your friend and changing your cell phone number is not appropriate behavior.


According to Sutil.


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#2260 JRizzle86

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 22:00

But glassing people is appropriate behaviour, Sutil is a beacon of good behaviour.

Edited by JRizzle86, 01 February 2012 - 22:00.


#2261 MrPodium

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 22:00

He should have been up front with Sutil and told him his reasons for not testifying. Avoiding your friend and changing your cell phone number is not appropriate behavior.


Perhaps he'd already told Sutil to do one, and Sutil didn't take the hint, hence the number change ?

#2262 F1Newbie

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 22:05

I didn't see any video. Court was two days.

About "convicted criminal" Suitl, anyone can be on his place. We all drive cars, which are weapons and everyone unintentionally can harm other people. So ,it is better not to be in his shoes.


And what do you think of Sutil running away after he injured Lux? He didn't stay and help him, did he? Doesn't that make him a coward too?


#2263 puxanando

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 22:09

Sure the dicussion here would be different if Lux would had 'glassed' Sutil. I am sure. :rolleyes:

#2264 Bonaventura

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 22:09

Lewis doesn't need an excuse for what happened down at that club, unless Sutil decides to draw him into this sad story later on.
What is reprehensible imo is that he declined to testify, be it for or against Sutil and that he just shut out his (former) friend.
That's not the sign of a responsible individual but that of a self-centered prick.

Ps.: Any progress on that link about the relationship Lewis - Adrian going bad after China, or is it again your imagination?

Zwischen dem 27-Jährigen und Sutil soll es schon unmittelbar nach den Handgreiflichkeiten in Schanghai, die beim Prozess in München untersucht wurden, zu Unstimmigkeiten gekommen sein.
http://www.motorspor...n_12020118.html

It was mentioned in another german article, about the friendship between Sutil & Lewis, but I don't remember if it was the Süddeutsche, or Die Welt, or the Frankfurther Allgemeine
I don't want to search it.

#2265 ivand911

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 22:10

And what do you think of Sutil running away after he injured Lux? He didn't stay and help him, did he? Doesn't that make him a coward too?

Is that what really happen? I guess court take it into consideration.


#2266 F1Newbie

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 22:18

Is that what really happen? I guess court take it into consideration.


Sutil took a fly out of China the same night to avoid Chinese law according to report ( those same reports). So what's your opinion of him now?


#2267 FenderJaguar

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 22:20

Of course it is weak to change phonenumbers - if that is true... Another great decision by Lewis or his advisors? McLaren? It would be better for him to talk and get it out of his system. Even if they argue and disagree it is better to get it out. And Sutil saying things like "coward" isn't the smartest thing either.


#2268 as65p

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 22:20

Zwischen dem 27-Jährigen und Sutil soll es schon unmittelbar nach den Handgreiflichkeiten in Schanghai, die beim Prozess in München untersucht wurden, zu Unstimmigkeiten gekommen sein.
http://www.motorspor...n_12020118.html


Hm, interesting how the article carries on.

Denn Hamilton soll Gerüchten zufolge noch in der gleichen Nacht das Überwachungsband der fraglichen Diskothek studiert haben - allerdings ohne Sutil, mit dem er in die Disko gekommen war, darüber zu informieren.

Because Hamilton is rumored to have studied the nightclubs tape from the incident during the same night - but without informing Sutil, with whom he had come to the club.


#2269 Wi000

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 22:21

Zwischen dem 27-Jährigen und Sutil soll es schon unmittelbar nach den Handgreiflichkeiten in Schanghai, die beim Prozess in München untersucht wurden, zu Unstimmigkeiten gekommen sein.
http://www.motorspor...n_12020118.html

It was mentioned in another german article, about the friendship between Sutil & Lewis, but I don't remember if it was the Süddeutsche, or Die Welt, or the Frankfurther Allgemeine
I don't want to search it.

"soll es" and the article is from yesterday, sorry but I think you're just making things up (again).

I've seen nothing in the press about Lewis and Sutil falling out before the trial.

#2270 Lights

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 22:36

What a crybaby, these latest comments from Sutil are laughable. I wouldn't want to be friends with someone who injures someones neck with glass (talking about a 'real man'?) and I doubt Lewis wants to.

#2271 Bonaventura

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 22:38

Hm, interesting how the article carries on.

Denn Hamilton soll Gerüchten zufolge noch in der gleichen Nacht das Überwachungsband der fraglichen Diskothek studiert haben - allerdings ohne Sutil, mit dem er in die Disko gekommen war, darüber zu informieren.

Because Hamilton is rumored to have studied the nightclubs tape from the incident during the same night - but without informing Sutil, with whom he had come to the club.

So, probably Lewis really did not see anything, why should he have wanted to see the videos otherwise?
Interesting is this, too:
Als die Nachrichtenagentur 'Reuters' Hamilton auf die spannungsgeladene Sutil-Aussage ansprechen wollte, ging ein McLaren-Pressesprecher dazwischen: "Uns wurde mitgeteilt, dass Lewis nicht hingehen sollte (nach München; Anm. d. Red.), weil es sowieso ein Berufungsverfahren geben könnte.

As the news agency Reuters wanted to ask about Sutils, statement,a McLaren spokesman interferred:
"We were told Lewis should not go there not go there (to Munich ; added from the editor), because there will be an appealing , anyhow"

So who has told Lewis not to go there?

#2272 JRizzle86

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 22:40

Latest headline in any worldwide tabloid.

"Lewis Hamilton in court over assault with rival team boss"

Lewis gets enough bad press for unjustified reasons, he hardly needed more the day before he carries out probably the most important press junket of the year for the team.

#2273 F1Johnny

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 22:41

According to Sutil.


Oh no no. Where have you been. It is a fact that LH changed his #, because Sutil said so.

#2274 as65p

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 22:45

So, probably Lewis really did not see anything, why should he have wanted to see the videos otherwise?


If really LH didn't see a thing of the incident (it's of course possible) it makes it all the more puzzling why he avoided the court. I mean, in that case he could have appeared, tell the truth without blaming or absolving anyone and be in the plane back within an hour or two.

#2275 Tifosi4ever

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 22:50

But, who wanted LH to lie in court? Nobody. Truth is he would not go to court even to prove that Sutil is not guilty. Because he or somebody decided that it is better that way. Court wanted him to testify, he decide that he don't care. Simple, he don't care. He is user only. Don't you think that Sutil will not say that LH is coward, when he know that Lewis not going there will help him(as people here say that truth will be not suitable for Sutil)?? He clearly expected him to go there and things that Lewis will say to help him. It is funny that people say that Lux can destroy LH?? What is this mafia movie! So, I guess Sutil use the right word.
How court decide the verdict? On which testimonials. Not from the closest people there ,because suddenly they become blind. I can expect that from LH ,but not from DLR.


Yes, we have.


Lewis was called to court by the prosecution, not the defence. Therefore, given the guilty verdict, and the sentence higher than the prosecution was seeking, it is fairly safe to assume that Lewis could only help the prosecution. Like I said, if it is possible to not give evidence for the prosecutor against your friend, that is what you will do. If the evidence will help your friend, you will do it, but only if it is true. Perjory is a very serious crime. If Lewis could say 100% true that Sutil didn't glass Lux, he would have done it. If Lewis is even 1% unsure of his testimony, he will help him more by not attending. Perjory sent Jeffrey Archer to jail for 4 years. Would you risk 4 years in prison to prevent your friend from taking a suspended sentence?

#2276 F1Johnny

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 22:51

Right. Instead of having a debate, let alone a debate on topic...



.... it's much easier to dig out that old pitchfork against the posters. Kills two birds with one stone: no need to stress the brain with arguments, plus handy to divert attention from the topic.



Well, it's a large part of the issue that he either doesn't want to or is somehow prevented from giving his side.


How can an intelligent debate be had with one side giving their side of the story but the other side not?? Especially when one side was just convicted of a crime and in an emotional state.

It is a large part of the issue, but I fail to see how conclusions about whether or not he is a coward can be drawn. On 23 January it was reported that Lewis could not attend and that he didn't receive a formal notice to attend the trial. That of course is being conveniently ignored.

http://www.telegraph...-on-Jan-30.html



#2277 Bonaventura

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 22:51

If really LH didn't see a thing of the incident (it's of course possible) it makes it all the more puzzling why he avoided the court. I mean, in that case he could have appeared, tell the truth without blaming or absolving anyone and be in the plane back within an hour or two.

It's all a bit strange
First Lewis wanted to come to Munich
Than he had other duties, and was excused (the court accepted it)
and today :
"We were told Lewis should not go there (to Munich ), because there will be an appealing , anyhow"
from McLaren

IMO the most logic explanation is, McLaren and their shareholders did not want their name involved in such a "dirty" cause, because of the negative PR
Maybe one of the big bosses.

Edited by Bonaventura, 01 February 2012 - 22:52.


#2278 F1Johnny

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 22:54

Lewis was called to court by the prosecution, not the defence.


This is an important point. Who called him to testify? If he could have helped, Sutil's lawyers would have called him.


#2279 trogggy

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 22:56

It's all a bit strange
First Lewis wanted to come to Munich
Than he had other duties, and was excused (the court accepted it)
and today :
"We were told Lewis should not go there (to Munich ), because there will be an appealing , anyhow"
from McLaren

IMO the most logic explanation is, McLaren and their shareholders did not want their name involved in such a "dirty" cause, because of the negative PR
Maybe one of the big bosses.

No.
That quote is a translation from English to German to English?
He was asked about what Sutil said today, and before he could reply a Mclaren bod said he shouldn't comment ('go there'?) because there might be an appeal.

Edit: 'Don't go there' >>> 'Don't speak about that.'

Edited by trogggy, 01 February 2012 - 22:58.


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#2280 DankBank

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 22:58

LOL @ people piling on Lewis and white-knighting a man who was just convicted of assault and received an 18 mo suspended prison sentence.

L. O. L.


#2281 Bonaventura

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 22:58

This is an important point. Who called him to testify? If he could have helped, Sutil's lawyers would have called him.

and if Sutils lawyers were good enough they could have worked out a way to get Lewis there to testify
It was written Lewis was willing to cooperate at another date


#2282 timmy bolt

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 23:00

A lot of anger in this thread directed at LH. I'm amazed that people have taken so much information as gospel and ignored other information.

If Hamilton's testimony was mandatory, he no doubt would have gone. Its not like he can avoid repercussions by staying out of Germany.
Most people do not change phone numbers without a very good reason, I very much doubt he would have just to avoid a call or two from someone. No one on here knows what the truth is and are relying on the words of a pissed off racer whos career is now in tatters.
Sutil caused GBH by attacking someone with a glass then left the scene to avoid repercussions yet calls Hamilton a coward. Pot. Kettle. Black.


#2283 Tifosi4ever

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 23:04

and if Sutils lawyers were good enough they could have worked out a way to get Lewis there to testify
It was written Lewis was willing to cooperate at another date


If Sutils lawyers were good enough, they would have called on Lewis to testify for the defence, if he could provide a truthfull account which exhonorates Sutil. Given they didn't, this indicates that Lewis testimony would be bad for the defence, which is why the prosecution called on Lewis.

#2284 whitewaterMkII

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 23:11

Not just in this case but in nearly all cases involving Lewis, he is owned lock, stock and barrel by Mac. I wouldn't doubt they have it scheduled for when he takes a crap, and then examine it afterwards.
Whatever, not my life, it's his. But if one of my friends asked me to testify as to what I saw,even if it was just to say I didn't see anything, I would tell my boss to piss up a rope if he told me I couldn't. The good thing is my boss would never even think of putting me in that position. And I most definitely wouldn't let some intern PR hack be answering questions for me at a presser.
Like I said, if that's the life Lewis has chosen for himself, so be it. His choice, not mine. Crap life, glad it's not how I have to live mine.
Slag away if you want, it's not an opinion about his driving, I pretty much like the guy, and this isn't in general a slag on him, but rather on the control freaks that run Mac, and the fact that they have always been control freaks in that shop.


#2285 as65p

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 23:11

If Sutils lawyers were good enough, they would have called on Lewis to testify for the defence, if he could provide a truthfull account which exhonorates Sutil. Given they didn't, this indicates that Lewis testimony would be bad for the defence, which is why the prosecution called on Lewis.


Then again, in such a case it would be absurd from Sutil to be disappointed that LH didn't testify?! :confused:

#2286 MrPodium

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 23:23

Then again, in such a case it would be absurd from Sutil to be disappointed that LH didn't testify?! :confused:


I get the distinct impression that dependent on what Hamilton said in court you wold either call him a liar or a grass. Whatever required to have another dig at him.

Edited by MrPodium, 01 February 2012 - 23:23.


#2287 Buttoneer

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 23:25

Enough.