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Lotus 27 Formula Junior


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#1 asapiro

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Posted 20 May 2011 - 22:10


the 27 was the first Lotus monocoque open wheeler for the junior formulae

there is a great Theo Page cutaway posted in the cutaway thread
and the Gurney Flap site has some very good photos of one survivor. www.gurneyflap.com

So I know exactly what one looks like.
Unfortunately, measurements for the car are sparse.
The Taylor book records the wheelbase and track dimensions.

Do any listers have one sitting in their garage? Or have easy access to one?

I would like to know the width of the tub.
I know that the 25 tub was 27.5 inches wide.
references state that the the 27 was a bit narrower.
I'm guessing 26 inches across.
And I'm thinking that the length and depth of the tub were nearly the same as the 25.
And the two side structures appear to be narrower than the 25's - so they would be close to 6 inches across?

How am I doing?

thanks


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#2 Bloggsworth

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Posted 21 May 2011 - 07:49

Didn't the first 27s have an outer skin of glass-fibre and the torsional rigidity of cooked penne?

#3 Doug Nye

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Posted 21 May 2011 - 08:10

OVER cooked penne...

DCN

#4 Bloggsworth

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Posted 21 May 2011 - 08:30

OVER cooked penne...

DCN


Nah - They had at least one Italian fibreglazier when I was there - Jo (probably Guiseppi) Bondi.

#5 MichaelM

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 19:42

Here are some measurements:

Width of tub at widest point in the center is 25 inches.
Height of tub not including bulkheads is 10.25 inches.
Width of side structures is 4.8 inches.
Length of tub (just the aluminum, not including bulkheads) is 86.75 inches.


Michael

#6 asapiro

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 18:04

thank you very much

then it's actually smaller than I guessed.

it appears that the side structures run perpendicular - that they do not narrow at the foot box, as the 25's did.
Is this correct?

Is the width of the front bulkhead also 25 inches?
I see that it is V shaped, as was the 25's. How wide is the "bridge" atop the bulkhead? Probably more or less the same as the 25's.

I'm going to draw up the structure for a scale model.
but I'm not much of an engineer.
Outside of the factory, I'm assuming that scale drawings have never circulated .....

the 27, then, if parked next to a Lotus 21, is actually slightly smaller in dimension.

Here are some measurements:

Width of tub at widest point in the center is 25 inches.
Height of tub not including bulkheads is 10.25 inches.
Width of side structures is 4.8 inches.
Length of tub (just the aluminum, not including bulkheads) is 86.75 inches.


Michael



#7 arttidesco

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 01:34

Didn't the first 27s have an outer skin of glass-fibre ?


Can anyone tell me if the use of a fibre glass outer skin was to save weight or to save pennies ?

I am guessing at some point Lotus moved over to making the whole 27 tub with aluminium, does any one know how many 27's were made with fibre glass outer skins ?

Relevant answers maybe credited and used in a forth blog.

Thanking you in anticipation of your responses.



#8 Peter Morley

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 21:31

Can anyone tell me if the use of a fibre glass outer skin was to save weight or to save pennies ?

I am guessing at some point Lotus moved over to making the whole 27 tub with aluminium, does any one know how many 27's were made with fibre glass outer skins ?

Relevant answers maybe credited and used in a forth blog.

Thanking you in anticipation of your responses.


It was to save money - it was a junior formula after all.
Of course they felt that it wouldn't compromise the performance too much - which it probably didn't until the rivet holes in the fibreglass started loosening up...

I think it is around 5 or 6 that were made with fibreglass skins and most (would say all but I think there is at least 1 survivor) were reskinned in aluminium.


#9 elansprint72

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 21:43

Can anyone tell me if the use of a fibre glass outer skin was to save weight or to save pennies ? ............


Bloggsworth has it correct in his previous response, it was all about saving pennes; cast your mind back to that period. The only pasta freely available in the UK at that time was from Heinz; I believe that the folks at Lotus, rightly, concluded that there was nothing to be gained by constructing cars form pasta but the cans it came in had strengthening ribs and this led, more or less to the backbone chassis in the Lotus 30.

Mornington Crescent; I believe.  ;)


#10 willga

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 23:37

It was to save money - it was a junior formula after all.
Of course they felt that it wouldn't compromise the performance too much - which it probably didn't until the rivet holes in the fibreglass started loosening up...


That said, fiberglass was Colin Chapmans 'baby' at the time, with the Elite and Elan, so it would be natural to try and incorporate it into as many Lotus products as possible.
The Elite worked in terms of rigidity and roadholding, so it would be natural to try and do a fiberglass single-seater.

BTW, didn't Ginetta do a fiberglass monococque Formula 3? - Was it any good?

#11 Bloggsworth

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 09:54

Bloggsworth has it correct in his previous response, it was all about saving pennes; cast your mind back to that period. The only pasta freely available in the UK at that time was from Heinz; I believe that the folks at Lotus, rightly, concluded that there was nothing to be gained by constructing cars form pasta but the cans it came in had strengthening ribs and this led, more or less to the backbone chassis in the Lotus 30.

Mornington Crescent; I believe. ;)



Every Friday I pass through Mornington Crescent station on my way to Leicester Square - One day, when I win the lottery, I will hire a dozen or so students who, when the in-train announcement comes on, break into wild applause - If that doesn't baffle the tourists...

#12 RonPohl

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 18:44

Two recent threads by Andrew Fellowes are of some interest to lotus 27 lovers......including some great pictures

#13 Andrew Fellowes

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 21:40

I have now corresponded with Stew McMillen, Dick Eisenmann, Digger Helm, Art Brisbane and Bob Keys which has nailed the history of one, and confused me over another!

I would like to find Greg Hodges who had an ex works car and Bill Kneeland and Bill Rutan who may have had 32s.
Harold Millar is another though I don't think he had either a 27 or 32. Hugh Johnson who had a 27/32.
Apparently there was also a father and son that raced one late 60's from LA and they did a deal with the late Leonard Fulkerton to sell the car. In relation to this John Wolf the engine builder from the Van Nuys area may know more but I cant find him!

As always, any help much appreciated!
Andrew

Edited by Andrew Fellowes, 23 January 2012 - 23:24.


#14 arttidesco

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 23:06

Thanks for your comments Peter, Pete, willga, and Ron :up:

Sorry I cannot help with your quest Andrew, the two 27's I have turned up for my blog are Chris Lockes 27-JM-22 ex Haas & GM, and Nick Fennels in Ecurie Ford France colours which I believe might be 27-JM-2 which appears to have made a late start to the season DNA Monaco for example but which eventually won at Nogaro in the hands of future French Rally champion Jean Vinatier. Both of these cars were at last years Revival.

Edited by arttidesco, 28 January 2012 - 11:28.


#15 Bloggsworth

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 23:26

I have now corresponded with Stew McMillen, Dick Eisenmann, Digger Helm, Art Brisbane and Bob Keys which has nailed the history of one, and confused me over another!

I would like to find Greg Hodges who had an ex works car and Bill Kneeland and Bill Rutan who may have had 32s.

Andrew


Would that be the Greg Hodges that raced an FF in the UK and removed a couple of fingers by rolling his Merlyn at the Snetterton esses. He subsequently made a couple of attempts to qualify for Indy. If so, I may know someone who is in contact with him, or at least has been.

#16 Andrew Fellowes

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 23:31

All I know is that Greg was entered in 1967/8 as being from the Los Angeles area, bought his car through Bob Winkelmann. Worth a try if you wouldn't mind?

and Dino Dioguardi also had a 27

Edited by Andrew Fellowes, 24 January 2012 - 02:44.