19 replies to this topic

[TeamSideways]

well, since becoming a fan of F1 i thought of getting a job in motorsport preferably as a race engineer . i have Bachelor of Engineering Major Electronics. i though if i came to UK , home of motorsport basically, and take a master program in motorsport engineering and start working in a smaller racing teams and build my career from there. as the fees of the program is quite expensive for non EU (16000 pound) . i am ready to take the risk but i am not sure after completing the masters will it boost my chances about securing a job in motorsport field and will i be able to end up in one of F1 teams ?

thank you

[golfball]

well, since becoming a fan of F1 i thought of getting a job in motorsport preferably as a race engineer . i have Bachelor of Engineering Major Electronics. i though if i came to UK , home of motorsport basically, and take a master program in motorsport engineering and start working in a smaller racing teams and build my career from there. as the fees of the program is quite expensive for non EU (16000 pound) . i am ready to take the risk but i am not sure after completing the masters will it boost my chances about securing a job in motorsport field and will i be able to end up in one of F1 teams ?

thank you

Hi Sideways
It's a hard question to answer without knowing where you're from.
Getting work visas to work in the UK is a LOT harder than it was a few years ago so if you're not an EU citizen it'll be tough. It's also very hard for us in the UK to know which scores from which degrees in other countries are equivalent to a 1st class engineering degree from a top uni in the UK (It's hard enough knowing how engineering degrees compare across unis within the UK tbh)

Assuming that's OK though, F1 teams will always look for people with a proven ability to learn, so somebody with best grades from the best universities. That's far more important than getting a "motorsport" degree, the reason being that an F1 team can teach you the motorsport specific parts of engineering IF you've got a solid theoretical understanding.. but the opposite isn't true.

You'd be better of therefore trying to get a Masters degree in Engineering from one of the top unis and then applying to a team. Having said that, Cranfield's motorsport degrees do seem to be fairly well thought by some teams....

(BTW I should qualify this by saying that I've recruited about 20 graduate engineers into F1 over the years.)

[Iridescent]

well, since becoming a fan of F1 i thought of getting a job in motorsport preferably as a race engineer . i have Bachelor of Engineering Major Electronics. i though if i came to UK , home of motorsport basically, and take a master program in motorsport engineering and start working in a smaller racing teams and build my career from there. as the fees of the program is quite expensive for non EU (16000 pound) . i am ready to take the risk but i am not sure after completing the masters will it boost my chances about securing a job in motorsport field and will i be able to end up in one of F1 teams ?

thank you

Hi!

If I may add to the informative post above - yes, it would be really hard to get a work permit in the UK if you're not an EU citizen. Also mind that jobs in F1 are scarce anyway, esp since the RRA is in place, and you can't just come into it from the outside without having the contacts and stuff.

But if you still decide to pursue a career in motorsport, getting into a good recognised university would be the first step. Do your research well as there are some universities with very good connections, F1 teams included - e.g. Imperial, Oxford Brookes etc. Competition is fierce so grades matter much.

Also it's very important to get as much practical experience as possible - there are quite a few options out there. For example try finding an internship related to your studies (I fear can't give you much specific advice on that, but I did BAE once and I think they still have some nice opportunities for graduates) or engage in to a Formula Student project if your uni has one (it's good as it's the closest you can get to team atmosphere). Also you can try finding a place into a team from a lower category - just go to a race, chat with the guys in the garage, make contacts and work your way up from there. Once you get some more experience and confidence you could apply for the graduate programme of Renault. Or look for advertised positions elsewhere and send your CV, a couple of times probably.

Personal advice - be persistent, patient and keep your head down. And always have a back-up plan.

[Bernoulli]

If you have a good CV in B.E or that you did BE from a renowned University, then it wouldn't be hard. And getting into F1 is really hard. But if you're really interested, you SHOULD go for what you like rather than going with the flow

[F1ultimate]

Masters Degrees can somewhat be false promises. They will lead to more knowledge but necessarily not higher employability. What I would advise you to do is to spent a few weeks researching motor sports and learn about the different job roles, educational history of people you aspire to be like and seek universities offering apprenticeships that will lead to your jobs that fit your profile. Bare in mind that quite a number of personnel in F1 did not have a straight path to motor sports but worked in aviation and other industries prior to finally landing a job at a big team. Electrical engineering is a wide discipline and it would be wise to have a think about what your strengths and interests are, and work yourself up from there. A masters degree is not a golden bullet, in fact it might make your life worse. I have friends who have invested in Masters degrees but got low paid jobs that are not rewarding. So really the masters degree has done nothing for them. Only choose to do a masters if you understand where it will lead you. So seek out some good apprenticeships that will give you practical experience and give you an idea of how you might specialise in the future.

[golfball]

Masters Degrees can somewhat be false promises. They will lead to more knowledge but necessarily not higher employability. What I would advise you to do is to spent a few weeks researching motor sports and learn about the different job roles, educational history of people you aspire to be like and seek universities offering apprenticeships that will lead to your jobs that fit your profile. Bare in mind that quite a number of personnel in F1 did not have a straight path to motor sports but worked in aviation and other industries prior to finally landing a job at a big team. Electrical engineering is a wide discipline and it would be wise to have a think about what your strengths and interests are, and work yourself up from there. A masters degree is not a golden bullet, in fact it might make your life worse. I have friends who have invested in Masters degrees but got low paid jobs that are not rewarding. So really the masters degree has done nothing for them. Only choose to do a masters if you understand where it will lead you. So seek out some good apprenticeships that will give you practical experience and give you an idea of how you might specialise in the future.

Agreed, a masters and even a PhD don't necessarily add anything to an application, but the OP is from somebody outside of the UK and one of their biggest challenges is trying to get their CV to stand out among others going for the same job from universities that will be better known to the interviewer. In their case a Masters degree gives them a chance to prove their ability at a university that's known to people in F1 in the UK.

Best bet otherwise to get to a race engineering job is to go for controls or simulation jobs in an F1 team, using the electrical engineering skills. That's the most trodden route to race engineer.

[Bloggsworth]

Somewhere on mainland Europe that is not in the EU I would guess. Acquire a Scottish accent and get yourself to Glasgow the noo - Seriously either get the job first or an internship where you can make a particular aspect of your job the subject of your masters, unless of course you are so rich.... If you can do this it should ba a symbiotic relationship to the benefit of both parties. Clearly your facility with the English language will be no problem. Good luck and have fun.

If you can make KERS work, there's a job waiting for you at Red Bull!

Edited by Bloggsworth, 05 June 2011 - 15:50.

[F1ultimate]

I should also add that quite a portion of development and manufacturing in F1 is outsourced and that teams are essentially just assembling and programming. The carbon fibre sculpturing is probably the only key development that's done in house.

[Cranclive]

There seems to be misinformation about Masters courses. As the Programme Director for the MSc Motorsport Engineering and Management at Cranfield I am in a position to say that the combination of a first degree in a subject such as mechanical engineering from a good university and a MSc in a specialist area can put you in a strong position for a career in motorsport. Ok you might say I have a vested interest but we run a programme that is supported by an industrial advisory committee that includes leading names in motorsport, we have practitioners teach on our MSc. Alumni Pat Symonds and Dr Daniele Casanova were here last week to teach motorsport vehicle dynamics. We undertake projects with motorsport and we undertake testing etc for the leading teams. The last cohort which finished in September 2011 have gone onto careers with Red Bull Technology Lotus Renault GP, Williams F1, Team Lotus, Cosworth, Mercedes-Benz High Performance Engines and Wirth Research. Most F1 teams have Cranfield graduates working for them. One of our former students is Chief Strategist at Mercedes-Benz GP. Lewis Hamilton's Performance Engineer is a Cranfield graduate. These are facts that suggest a Masters is beneficial.

[TeamSideways]

these are very good information cranclive , by the way i am ahmed salah in the Linkedin Cranfield Motorsport group

[rolf123]

A race engineer is not normally a qualified engineer at all, it's one of those misuses of the word.

If you want to work in the factory then that's a different matter.

I did an engineering degree with a chap who has moved around the teams successfully. I think he's reached the level where he now goes to all the races. It seems a bit strange for me that you study all those advanced engineering concepts (to me, engineering is just an incredibly hardcore flavour of mathematics, you have to have a hard-on for advanced calculus) to do something that really does not use your degree at all.

I believe he started by getting involved in things like Formula SAE, then he got some summer work, then a job with a team on graduation and he was set from there.

It's a bit like becoming a successful actor, you've got to be very focused and single-minded about it. I am interested in too many things to be successful in this way.

And yeah, a good degree matters. Getting a good Masters is not a bad idea at all so long as you do it at a good uni and use it to try and get your foot in the door at a team. Heck, even a non-F1 team is good. As you say, Britain is home of motorsport, the yearly Autosport book at New Year used to list tons of motorsport companies, most of whom are small though.

A lot of it is right place at right time. Think of the tyre guys at Pirelli or electronics guys working at KERS. Many people are in F1 only fleeting, for a year or two and then gone because their expertise is no longer needed.

When I was younger, I wanted such similar things. Now I don't really care. I think some people are a little bit desperate to work in F1. I mean, it's just a racing series at the end of the day, there are bigger things in life than being part of a machine to support some big ego kids.

Edited by rolf123, 12 November 2011 - 21:43.

[Ragingjamaican]

Would doing motorsport design engineering at university of the west of Scotland get you any jobs in the Motorsport industry?

Because I am thinking about doing that next year as I am not getting a job with my current degree (a masters in forensic chemistry), and I have wanted to do motorsport design engineering for a while but I saw the course after I got accepted for forensic chemistry :/

[PNSD]

Aerospace MSc grad with no job yet.

These things take time though. Different department to Clive, but my experience of Cranfield was certainly below par for the reputation it holds.

[TeamSideways]

Aerospace MSc grad with no job yet.

These things take time though. Different department to Clive, but my experience of Cranfield was certainly below par for the reputation it holds.

i need to know why your experience was below cranfield's reputation ? i want to join

[rolf123]

Aerospace MSc grad with no job yet.

These things take time though. Different department to Clive, but my experience of Cranfield was certainly below par for the reputation it holds.

Doesn't surprise me. Reputation is a funny thing.

I went to one of the universities mentioned in this thread and it was a total joke. They didn't give a cr@p about the undergraduates, only the research contracts. Lecturers and tutors were terrible, even though they apparently scored highly for it. And if you dared to even think about a non-engineering career (don't forget that at least 50% of students on any degree will do something else) then you were practically shunned. Even our noticeboards were covered with doom and gloom propaganda stories about financial services (which was doing well at the time), even though engineering in the UK has been in a **** state for decades.

[TURU]

well, since becoming a fan of F1 i thought of getting a job in motorsport preferably as a race engineer . i have Bachelor of Engineering Major Electronics. i though if i came to UK , home of motorsport basically, and take a master program in motorsport engineering and start working in a smaller racing teams and build my career from there. as the fees of the program is quite expensive for non EU (16000 pound) . i am ready to take the risk but i am not sure after completing the masters will it boost my chances about securing a job in motorsport field and will i be able to end up in one of F1 teams ?

thank you

16000 pounds for a full Master's degree course or for some period only ??

[TeamSideways]

16000 pounds for a full Master's degree course or for some period only ??

for the full MSc program : 1 year

[TURU]

for the full MSc program : 1 year

Hm, now I'm confused... MSc in one year? I would've thought it should be 2 years.

Edited by TURU, 13 November 2011 - 11:41.

[madraykin]

Hm, now I'm confused... MSc in one year? I would thought it should be 2 years.

In the UK MSC courses are usually one year.

And I have to agree with PNSD on Cranfield - I hated it so much that I left halfway through (also Aerospace though - maybe the Motorsport Engineering course is better).

[TURU]

In the UK MSC courses are usually one year.

Ok, thanks. Didn't know that.