48 replies to this topic

[HistoryFan]

Yesterday Michael Schumacher almost drove on the podium. He is 42 years old, Vettel is nearly 20 years younger. So there would have been an age difference on the podium for nearly 20 years. But what is the record in that category today?

Anyone with a top-10 list?

[Tim Murray]

I suggest Mike Hawthorn (b 10-Apr-1929) and Piero Taruffi (b 12-Oct-1906) at the 1952 British GP. Then there are the several podiums that Hawthorn and Giuseppe Farina (b 30-Oct-1906) finished on in 1953.

[2F-001]

I can't think of an example to top Tim's, but Maurice T and Bruce McLaren were in the top three together a couple of times. Don't know their bithdates off hand (my head is already full of nonsense without trying to memorize stuff like that!) but I *think* McLaren was born in '37 and Trintingnant during WWI.
If you really want a list, History Fan - there's a little project for you!

Edited by 2F-001, 13 June 2011 - 15:01.

[KeVnWo]

Modern-day age difference that comes to mind: Gerhard Berger (1959) and Jacques Villeneuve (1971) were on the podium together a couple of times in 96 and 97.

Edited by KeVnWo, 13 June 2011 - 16:21.

[David McKinney]

I suggest Mike Hawthorn (b 10-Apr-1929) and Piero Taruffi (b 12-Oct-1906) at the 1952 British GP. Then there are the several podiums that Hawthorn and Giuseppe Farina (b 30-Oct-1906) finished on in 1953.

Podiums? I never took you for a revisionist, Tim

[Tim Murray]

I've just thought of another one which beats my earlier submissions: Froilan Gonzalez (b 5-Oct-1922) and Luigi Fagioli (b 9-Jun-1898) at the 1951 French GP. Any advance on 24 yeras and 4 months?

Podiums? I never took you for a revisionist, Tim

Podium, schmodium. 'Top-three-finish' if you prefer.

... or are you suggesting 'podia'?

[2F-001]

I wondered about that, too - I decided that Tim was just trying to get down with the yoof. I suppose those drivers might be considered to have concluded the meeting upon the podium, but to have finished the race on it would have been very messy!

Until such time as they begin giving away the fixtures and fittings to the competitors, I will not accept that one can 'win' a podium. :-)

As for Berger-Villeneueve, as a "modern" example, I imagine that the likes of Prost, Mansell and Patrese all had a rather larger age-gap than that to Schumacher and I'm sure he shared a moment or two upon the aforementioned platform with them.

(Apologies for my vagueness and not finding the actual dates, but I'm expecting HistoryFan to undertake the challenge!)

Edited by 2F-001, 13 June 2011 - 16:56.

[my_own_shadow]

A few from 'modern' F1:
1986 US GP (Ayrton Senna + Jacques Laffite = 16y 4m 0d)
1998 Belgian GP (Damon Hill + Ralf Schumacher = 14y 9m 13d)

[KeVnWo]

I wondered about that, too - I decided that Tim was just trying to get down with the yoof. I suppose those drivers might be considered to have concluded the meeting upon the podium, but to have finished the race on it would have been very messy!

Until such time as they begin giving away the fixtures and fittings to the competitors, I will not accept that one can 'win' a podium. :-)

As for Berger-Villeneueve, as a "modern" example, I imagine that the likes of Prost, Mansell and Patrese all had a rather larger age-gap than that to Schumacher and I'm sure he shared a moment or two upon the aforementioned platform with them.

(Apologies for my vagueness and not finding the actual dates, but I'm expecting HistoryFan to undertake the challenge!)

Amazing how I missed that one! Of course. Mansell is the oldest of the three. First race that comes to mind where he and Schumacher were on the podium together was Mexico City 92. Mansell was 38 I think, Schumi 23.

[Lee Towers]

1959 US Grand Prix, won by Bruce Mclaren (born 30 August 1937 - age 22 and about 4 months), followed closely home by Maurice Trintignant (born 30 October 1917 - age 42 and about 2 months).

Another difference of circa 20 years!

Edited by Lee Towers, 13 June 2011 - 17:54.

[Flat Black 84]

Fortunately, Indy has never done a podium, but if it did, Al Unser (born May 29, 1939) would have shared it in 1987 with Fabrizio Barbazza (born, April 2, 1963). That's an age differential of almost 24 years.

[RobertE]

I'd have thought that the German GP of 1957 - Fangio first, Collins third, might qualify? Over 20 years between them...

[BRG]

... or are you suggesting 'podia'?

Something to do with feet, isn't that?

[ryan86]

In 2009 Vettel and Barrichello were on the podium together, born 15 years and 2 months apart. Obviously not the record overall, but quite large for recent times.

[RA Historian]

Until such time as they begin giving away the fixtures and fittings to the competitors, I will not accept that one can 'win' a podium. :-)

Agreed. That is a phrase that makes me grind my teeth. Topped, of course, but the occasional use of 'podium' as a verb; as in so-and-so "podiumed" at the last GP.

Oops, gotta be careful, this could drift into "blood pressure" if we are not careful!
Tom

[Flat Black 84]

Yes. We must be careful not to "hypertense."

[Roly01]

Hi,

Just found this one: 1951 French GP 2nd and 3rd place drivers, Luigi Fagioli: Born 1898-06-09 and Oscar Gonzalez born: 1923-11-10, so that makes it 25 years.
Is this the record?

[David McKinney]

Wrong Gonzalez

..and see Post 6

[Roly01]

Oops sorry, thought had read the posts good enough, obviuosly not.

[Ray Bell]

Am I wrong in thinking that there was about twenty years between Fangio and Moss?

I think they got next to each other at a few trophy presentations...

And didn't Sir Stirling also get a place alongside Farina at one time?

[wenoopy]

Fortunately, Indy has never done a podium, but if it did, Al Unser (born May 29, 1939) would have shared it in 1987 with Fabrizio Barbazza (born, April 2, 1963). That's an age differential of almost 24 years.

"Podium" or "Podia" would appear to be as much a concept as a physical reality until quite recent times. Trophies at Monaco appear to have been presented on a stretch of footpath for many years, and in other races presentations seem to have taken place on the trackside. Since the original thread-poster was not specific as to which races he was comparing, it seems quite in order for Indianapolis placings to be included. So the 23 years 10 months 4 days of Indy 1987 looks pretty good.

PS : Moss was about 5 months younger than Hawthorn.

[Tim Murray]

And didn't Sir Stirling also get a place alongside Farina at one time?

PS : Moss was about 5 months younger than Hawthorn.

Yes indeed - forgot that one (1955 Belgian GP).

So, for World Championship Grand Prix races, I believe the top five to be:

1. Fagioli and Gonzalez 24 years 118 days
2. Taruffi and Castellotti 23 years 363 days
3. Farina and Moss 22 years 322 days
4. Taruffi and Hawthorn 22 years 180 days
5. Farina and Hawthorn 22 years 162 days

Edited by Tim Murray, 14 June 2011 - 13:15.

[Rob G]

Fortunately, Indy has never done a podium, but if it did, Al Unser (born May 29, 1939) would have shared it in 1987 with Fabrizio Barbazza (born, April 2, 1963). That's an age differential of almost 24 years.

And if we include other IndyCar races, many of which have had podiums, Mario Andretti (born Feb 28, 1940) shared the 1993 Phoenix podium with Jimmy Vasser (born November 20, 1965). That's close to 25 years and nine months apart.

[ryan86]

What about Schumacher and Fangio, both on the 1993 Brazilian GP podium. That's a 57 year difference.

Well both could be considered to be drivers!

Edited by ryan86, 14 June 2011 - 21:23.

[RCH]

"PS : Moss was about 5 months younger than Hawthorn.

Going a bit OT, 1929 was a good year for English GP drivers, Moss, Hawthorn and Graham Hill.

[HistoryFan]

Thank you.

Perhaps we can also collect that statistics for Grand Prix races before 1950.

[David McKinney]

I for one have considered that, but decided the 'podium' ages would have been much closer than in some postwar events

[Tim Murray]

Agreed. I've had a look at the likes of Nazzaro and Minoia in their later years but don't think that there's anything like a twenty year gap between them and those they shared top three finishes with. The only gap of more than twenty years I can think of is:

Tazio Nuvolari and Richard Seaman (1938 Donington GP) 20 years 80 days

[2F-001]

I, too, was trying to think of 'notably young' drivers such as Stuart Lewis Evans or Masten Gregory whose careers overlapped Fangio's - and then pre-war events as well, but nothing seems to 'rival' those post-war instances already mentioned. Even David Bruce-Brown (notwithstanding the uncertainty we had over his birth date) doesn't seem to have enjoyed shared occupancy of the notional presentation furniture with anyone 'especially older' than himself.

(I'm determined not to use the p word again - except in an architectural context.)

Edited by 2F-001, 15 June 2011 - 09:11.

[xj13v12]

16 years between Brabham and Rindt a number of times.

[xj13v12]

Fangio and Moss were 18 years apart.
Farina and Moss 23 years - 2nd and 3rd Spa 1955.

[Tim Murray]

Farina and Moss 23 years - 2nd and 3rd Spa 1955.

To be precise 22 years 322 days - see post 22.

[xj13v12]

To be precise 22 years 322 days - see post 22.

Yes and Karl Kling was 9 months older than Fangio and he shared the podium with Moss 1955 British G.P.

[Tim Murray]

These can be added to the 'Twenty Years Plus' list:

Fangio and Gregory 20 years 250 days
Fangio and Brooks 20 years 246 days
Fangio and Collins 20 years 135 days
Fagioli and Ascari 20 years 34 days

[2F-001]

16 years between Brabham and Rindt a number of times.

Brabham and Ickx would represent a bigger age-gap, wouldn't they? And they did it as team-mates.

[xj13v12]

Brabham and Ickx would represent a bigger age-gap, wouldn't they? And they did it as team-mates.

No. Ickx was nearly 3 years older than Rindt and he shared podium when Jack was a year younger in 1969. .

[Tim Murray]

Jochen Rindt was born on 18 April 1942. Jacky Ickx was born on 1 January 1945. The year in which drivers share podiums is irrelevant - the age gap between them never varies.

Edited by Tim Murray, 15 June 2011 - 10:08.

[2F-001]

I've never seen any record of Ickx being older than Rindt.
I don't quite understand the relevance of when the events may have taken place; surely the difference in age is constant throughout their lives. (?)

[xj13v12]

Is this one we have all missed? Hawthorn and Taruffi about 23 years. British G.P. 1952.

No, its on post 22 above.

Edited by xj13v12, 15 June 2011 - 10:13.

[2F-001]

Er... it's actually on post 2! It was Tim's original response to the question.

[xj13v12]

I've never seen any record of Ickx being older than Rindt.
I don't quite understand the relevance of when the events may have taken place; surely the difference in age is constant throughout their lives. (?)

You are right, my mistake. Ickx nearly 3 years younger, therefore about 19 years between he and Jack.

[xj13v12]

Er... it's actually on post 2! It was Tim's original response to the question.

Quite right, sorry. So what's our final list?

[Tim Murray]

I reckon this is our current top ten list - no guarantee we haven't missed any. It applies only to World Championship Grand Prix races:

1. Fagioli and Gonzalez 24 years 118 days
2. Taruffi and Castellotti 23 years 363 days
3. Farina and Moss 22 years 322 days
4. Taruffi and Hawthorn 22 years 180 days
5. Farina and Hawthorn 22 years 162 days
6. Fangio and Gregory 20 years 250 days
7. Fangio and Brooks 20 years 246 days
8. Fangio and Collins 20 years 135 days
9. Fagioli and Ascari 20 years 34 days
10.Trintignant and McLaren 19 years 304 days

[# 0]

My girl friend is half my age, not sure though I'd call the thing we share "a podium".... :g:

Edited by # 0, 15 June 2011 - 17:14.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by # 0
My girl friend is half my age, not sure though I'd call the thing we share "a podium".... :g:

But that might well be only five or ten years difference...

Edited by Ray Bell, 15 June 2011 - 22:09.

[HistoryFan]

I reckon this is our current top ten list - no guarantee we haven't missed any. It applies only to World Championship Grand Prix races:

1. Fagioli and Gonzalez 24 years 118 days
2. Taruffi and Castellotti 23 years 363 days
3. Farina and Moss 22 years 322 days
4. Taruffi and Hawthorn 22 years 180 days
5. Farina and Hawthorn 22 years 162 days
6. Fangio and Gregory 20 years 250 days
7. Fangio and Brooks 20 years 246 days
8. Fangio and Collins 20 years 135 days
9. Fagioli and Ascari 20 years 34 days
10.Trintignant and McLaren 19 years 304 days

Thank you very much!

[Zeroninety]

And if we include other IndyCar races, many of which have had podiums, Mario Andretti (born Feb 28, 1940) shared the 1993 Phoenix podium with Jimmy Vasser (born November 20, 1965). That's close to 25 years and nine months apart.

That one's got to be tough to beat. I noticed Johnny Rutherford's (born March 12, 1938) last two wins included a driver on the podium who was a little more than 24 years younger than him: Al Unser, Jr (April 19, 1962) at Sanair in '85, and Josele Garza (March 15, 1962) at Michigan in '86.

[D-Type]

And if you extend the scope to include Le Mans and other endurance races, I'm sure it would be possible to stretch things further.

[2F-001]

And if you extend the scope to include Le Mans and other endurance races, I'm sure it would be possible to stretch things further.

Le Mans 1984, for example, with Preston Henn and John Paul Jr actually sharing the same car as well as the p- p- p- 'presentation platform'.
Birth date for Henn suggested by online sources (can't find it printed anywhere) would suggest an age gap a couple of months shy of 29 years.

But I suspect there are relatively few other examples amongst Le Mans top-threes to top the one's we've already collected here.

Edited by 2F-001, 20 June 2011 - 10:48.