12 replies to this topic

[Tmeranda]

What are the differences. When were they intorduced and on what production cars.

[elansprint72]

What are the differences. When were they intorduced and on what production cars.

I'm not sure that this is the best place to ask; why not try a Porsche forum? Those are very short questions but the answers are very complex!

[David Birchall]

As far as I am aware the "Tea tray" appeared in 1974 on the RSR and the "Whale tale" came with the fitting of the intercooler to the Turbo model.
As Peter says, a Porsche forum would be the best place to ask. I would suggest Pelican Parts Porsche forum and ask the question on the "911 Technical" board. Then stand back and prepared to be inundated.

[millau]

Hi

Agree with earler posts re Porsche forums

However, I can tell you that the racing 1973 type 911 Carrera RS showed a tail (ducktail) whereas the racing 1974 type 911 RSR Turbo started to show the whale tail; whereas roadgoing followed with 1974 type 911 Carrera RS with form of ducktail tray followed by 1976 type 911 Turbo with whale tail

This change in 1973 being brought about by rule changes which effectively made the 917 obsolete for the World Sportscar Championship and Porsche chose to focus on the Group 4 GT Class to further develop their sporting profile

Focusing on the already successful 911, weight reductions (thinner steel and fibre glass reducing the weight to under 1000kg) and various other changes including wider rear tyres, engine capacity to 2.7 litres delivering an extra 20 bhp; then the ducktail appeared which with suspension modifications and the wider tyres delivered the power more effectively to the rear wheels

Porsche also claimed that the ducktail also helped the airflow to the engine and reduced the lift / stability at high speed from some 150 kgs to less than 50 kgs

These tails disturbing the air rather than controlling aerodynamically; message being that tails reduce lift and do not produce downforce

More developed understanding of aerodynamics has resulted in the aerofoil type wings as seen for example on current GT2 / GT3 models; with very positive downforce

Nostalgia being somewhat influential as well as effective, you will see a modern take of the ducktail on the 997 Sport Classic

Hope this helps

M

[D-Type]

Could someone please post photos to illustrate the difference?

[elansprint72]

Hi

Agree with earler posts re Porsche forums

However, I can tell you that the racing 1973 type 911 Carrera RS showed a tail (ducktail) whereas the racing 1974 type 911 RSR Turbo started to show the whale tail; whereas roadgoing followed with 1974 type 911 Carrera RS with form of ducktail tray followed by 1976 type 911 Turbo with whale tail

This change in 1973 being brought about by rule changes which effectively made the 917 obsolete for the World Sportscar Championship and Porsche chose to focus on the Group 4 GT Class to further develop their sporting profile

Focusing on the already successful 911, weight reductions (thinner steel and fibre glass reducing the weight to under 1000kg) and various other changes including wider rear tyres, engine capacity to 2.7 litres delivering an extra 20 bhp; then the ducktail appeared which with suspension modifications and the wider tyres delivered the power more effectively to the rear wheels

Porsche also claimed that the ducktail also helped the airflow to the engine and reduced the lift / stability at high speed from some 150 kgs to less than 50 kgs

These tails disturbing the air rather than controlling aerodynamically; message being that tails reduce lift and do not produce downforce

More developed understanding of aerodynamics has resulted in the aerofoil type wings as seen for example on current GT2 / GT3 models; with very positive downforce

Nostalgia being somewhat influential as well as effective, you will see a modern take of the ducktail on the 997 Sport Classic

Hope this helps

M

A very accurate an succinct answer. I fear that Duncan's subsequent post may let the genie out of the bottle. Differences in what? The foil or the car? The duck tail stuck up like a ... duck's tail and, as far as I can tell, the whale tail and the tea tray were the same thing.
The Audi TT proved that the lessons learned in the early 70s had been forgotten by the wonderkind not many years later.

[fbarrett]

See Paul Frere's excellent technical history of the 911, The Porsche 911 Story.

Frank

[2F-001]

By the time of the 911-based 'Cup' cars, the rear wing seemed to have evolved from tea-tray to full-blown breakfast bar - this is from 2008, a Manthey Racing run car for the VLN series and the wing lives up to the other popular nickname, the picnic table...




For anyone so interested, Frere's "Porsche racing cars of the 70s" includes much detail (and some maths) of all the aerodynamic development of the loosely 911-based racecars (RSR, turbo, 934, 935 etc), not just the rear spoilers.

Edited by 2F-001, 20 June 2011 - 07:07.

[onelung]

If I have a Porsche with a "tea tray" spoiler, should it be fitted with cookie cutter wheels?

[elansprint72]

By the time of the 911-based 'Cup' cars, the rear wing seemed to have evolved from tea-tray to full-blown breakfast bar - this is from 2008, a Manthey Racing run car for the VLN series and the wing lives up to the other popular nickname, the picnic table...


For anyone so interested, Frere's "Porsche racing cars of the 70s" includes much detail (and some maths) of all the aerodynamic development of the loosely 911-based racecars (RSR, turbo, 934, 935 etc), not just the rear spoilers.

Excellent.

After much soul-searching my next-door neighbour got rid of his whale-tail and fitted a "normal" engine cover (no wing) to his 80s Carrera. We both agree it looks much better.

[David Birchall]

If I have a Porsche with a "tea tray" spoiler, should it be fitted with cookie cutter wheels?

No, because then it wouldn't be matching numbers and that is a no-no in Porsche land.

Personally, I think Porsche got it right with the "disappearing" spoiler on the 964. I bought one to fit to my SC but never got round to it and now I have the SC for sale (advt).

[Bauble]

I recall a picture in the VSCC Bulletin many years ago showing a marshall eating his lunch from the rear wing/spoiler/whatever on a Porsche with the caption suggesting it was the worlds most expensive picnic table.

[millau]

If I have a Porsche with a "tea tray" spoiler, should it be fitted with cookie cutter wheels?

Check the teapot first

HoHo

M