17 replies to this topic

[Snic]

Hey, been an avid follower of f1 for a long time and been a lurker on here for a little longer than that. I aplogise in advance for the length of the post but its been puzzling me for a long time!

I've always wondered how it is f1 drivers practise, and how they improve their driving technique. imo F1 drivers are among the most talented athletes in the World, and their wages reflect the talent they possess (In 2010 Schuey earned more than Messi, and Alonso more than Nadal!). But unlike other sportmen I have absolutely no idea what the average day of an f1 driver consists of in terms of actual driving. All other sportmen spend hours every day in training whether it be boxing, golf or premier league footballers spending the morning practising with their manager & team mates (and In Ashley Coles case shooting passers by!) long after they have won their first titles and reached the top of their games.

A lot of recent sports pychology books (eg Bounce) seems to show that than the time spent practising your chosen sport can be more important than your 'natural born talent' [with some studies claiming no such even thing exists!]. I've read statements from previous managers of how Thierry Henry and Cristiano Ronaldo were from an extremely young age ALWAYS the first ones in and last one out their training sessions. Andre Agassi has also has talked about how his rather militant dad made him hit a million balls per year as a kid, where any deficits in natural talent were made up for by repetition and anticipation [two crucial skills for a driver]. I think Nicklaus said something like ' the more I practise the luckier I seem to become'. Its hard to find a top star in any chosen sport that hasn't been working extremely hard to get there.

What I find quite surprising is that In a sport where millions are spent to ensure every mm of a car is scrutinised and every excess gram of weight is removed the work these guys do behind the scenes seems, at best primitive and at worst very distracting! With sponsor events every other week, it's not surprising when people like Lewis say they are don't have enough time to mentally prepare for races. I'm not naive and of course Mclaren need their drivers out in the public eye but I mean can you imagine Alex Ferguson letting Rooney and Ferdinand go off to have a kickabout in Moscow a week before the champions league final?

Of course we hear a lot about the the gym work these guys do, but fitness is one thing, for anyone whos had driver coaching they would agree even small improvements to driving technique can reap huge dividends on the track. I read recently that Chandhok said he has a go kart track in his back yard and he goes out a few times a week to stay sharp which seems like quite a good idea. Simulators are probably the most used tool, sure drivers use them for testing performance upgrades but how many laps do they do against themselves trying to knock off that last thousandth off their "high score" before qualifying starts? How do they practise racecraft? Lewis said on the BBC last yr that quite a large number of the grid play f1 2010 online. Recreation aside I guess its an easy way to get some racecraft in, but no amount of call of dutys going to get me ready to go to war. On a bit of a side note I guess its an insight into how rare real hands on driving has become, particularly since the testing ban was introduced. I really feel for the rookies, Hulkenburg seemed to be improving @ every race last year. It's a bit of a joke that these guy's are thrust into driving at 190mph speeds around circuits they've never been on before. Due to the incredible pressure to be competitive inexperienced mistakes like Perez's at Monaco are surely a sign of things to come.

On a final note (I promise!) a big part of training is getting a coach to iron out any bad habits you've picked up, quite shockingly I can't think of any drivers that employ a driving coach (at least publicly). Every single other sport has an equivalent, even Federer, with an ego large enough to rival his talent has hired a coach now that he's no longer dominating mens tennis. He'll never lose talent, but I guess the coach can help in the mental side of the game which is arguably the most important side when the stakes are so high. Hamilton used to have his dad coaching him in the old karting days, always daring him to brake later and later, challenging him despite never having raced himself. I know Lewis has moved on since then but by no means is he, or any other driver on the grid perfect. When he was at mcclaren Coulthard brought a coach round to Qualifying with him to give him pointers as to where he was losing time, but I mean I can't remember many other cases. I've also wondered why Rubinho doesn't hire a coach (or even me) to teach him to left foot brake which is surely quicker than what he does atm xD As Mike Tyson used to say you win or lose a fight long before you enter the ring, it makes me wonder if practise in f1 is as methodical and important as it is in other sports?

[miniq]

How do f1 drivers practise and improve their technique?

-Practise
-Talk to teammates
- Talk extensivly with engineers who can compare data, throttle,gear shifts,braking etcetc

[Lorenzo99]

How do f1 drivers practise and improve their technique?

-Practise
-Talk to teammates
- Talk extensivly with engineers who can compare data, throttle,gear shifts,braking etcetc

Simulators too.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Surprisingly, they don't. Racing is one of the most 'undeveloped' sports out there. A lot of drivers still don't take simulation seriously and very few have proper coaches.

[HaydenFan]

Surprisingly, they don't. Racing is one of the most 'undeveloped' sports out there. A lot of drivers still don't take simulation seriously and very few have proper coaches.

True. But at the same time, how much time can be shaved off with more practice? Or more testing?

Even for the sports that require more practice, American Football, baseball (hitting is tough), hockey, most goes back to the strategy of the game. Football, hockey, basketball uses plays to run the game. Soccer to some extent the same. Even in those sports, a players ability only improves so much with practice. What they practice is there chemistry with the team. Running plays without mistakes. Racing has to be viewed as an individual sport.

You have the natural ability to drive a car. You really cannot improve on it. You can be coached, but that teaches you how to drive. What to focus on behind the wheel.

You can argue that with time drivers like EJ Viso, or Juan Pablo Montoya, or Dan Clarke will get better due to their added experience. But that isn't true. You can race yearly, but that doesn't mean as a driver, you'll become faster, smoother. Paul Tracy proves that in motorsport, Leyton Hewitt proves that in tennis. You can practice your entire life, but not improve against the competition.

I've run Skip Barber races, and from what I have learned, it never really sunk in when I pulled out of the pit lane. You do what feels natural. What your butt tells you. I really don't think what occurred in the classroom effectively transfered to the track. A proper coach is more of less a spotter. A person who can guide you around traffic on the circuit. When to give way for a faster competitor, when to overtake. But like I said before, even that part is natural to most people.

Edited by HaydenFan, 21 July 2011 - 20:32.

[olliek88]

They might not get a huge amount of driving in F1 now days but most of the drivers started karting from a very young age, one great example is Senna, was it all "natural" talent or was it more because he started go karting at the age of 4, which means he had 20 years of practising car control/inputs before he even got to F1, thats a big part of it i think, the drivers just know (except Ricciardo and Luizzi) what the cars should and will do, the difference between the drivers in terms of a percentage is tiny, they all have years of practise behind them before they even roll a wheel in F1, which is why they are so close.

[ZooL]

Nigel Mansell World Championship Racing on the Amiga ofc.

[Muz Bee]

Physical - we know the sorts of things, especially gymn, swimming, cycling. It's important to find a regime which doesn't become a drag.

Reflexes - can be honed by things like riding a dirt bike (but watch out for injury!), tennis, squash etc

Creative visualisation - works on the area that makes the difference between the good driver and the great driver, self belief and focus. Also the sims are good for circuit visualisation but not so much technique IMO.

Intelligent application - what happens in testing, practice and early qualifying sessions, how to fine tune the balance of the car, how to integrate aero and mechanical updates so they work near to optimal.

The art and science of F1 racing is complex, maybe the most complex of any sport on the planet. This is part of the reason why coaches are hardly thought of. A great look at the fine balance of what it takes at the top level of motorsport for the driver can be seen in a book Kenny Roberts wrote "The Art and Science of Motorcycle Racing" I think it was, back in the eighties. Mind, body, machine.

[CSquared]

True. But at the same time, how much time can be shaved off with more practice? Or more testing?

Even for the sports that require more practice, American Football, baseball (hitting is tough), hockey, most goes back to the strategy of the game. Football, hockey, basketball uses plays to run the game. Soccer to some extent the same. Even in those sports, a players ability only improves so much with practice. What they practice is there chemistry with the team. Running plays without mistakes. Racing has to be viewed as an individual sport.

You have the natural ability to drive a car. You really cannot improve on it. You can be coached, but that teaches you how to drive. What to focus on behind the wheel.

You can argue that with time drivers like EJ Viso, or Juan Pablo Montoya, or Dan Clarke will get better due to their added experience. But that isn't true. You can race yearly, but that doesn't mean as a driver, you'll become faster, smoother. Paul Tracy proves that in motorsport, Leyton Hewitt proves that in tennis. You can practice your entire life, but not improve against the competition.

I've run Skip Barber races, and from what I have learned, it never really sunk in when I pulled out of the pit lane. You do what feels natural. What your butt tells you. I really don't think what occurred in the classroom effectively transfered to the track. A proper coach is more of less a spotter. A person who can guide you around traffic on the circuit. When to give way for a faster competitor, when to overtake. But like I said before, even that part is natural to most people.

I respectfully, yet completely, disagree with you. There's nothing like seat time to improve driving and lap times. Someone can peak and not improve anymore, but that doesn't mean that practice never brings improvement. There's no shortage of data to the contrary.

[MarioKart]

Nigel Mansell World Championship Racing on the Amiga ofc.

hehe, I loved that game! I had the SNES version back in the day.
BTW Zool was one of my favourite games. really underrated.


Getting back on topic, the drivers must be watching/reviewing their previous races in details - analyzing their errors, the unnecessary risks they've taken on track, what aspects of racing they need to improve on.. .

They also practice the hand/eye coordination, rhythm & timing, the abilty to solve problems and think quickly .

[Reinmuster]

The will to win and to be the fastest!

[faaaz]

I'm pretty sure simulators are the only way drivers can get practical experience, while the old heads might not take them too seriously, the younger drivers and rookies rely religiously on feedback from the simulators. Off season testing they do quite a bit of hours. I remember Hamilton did some ridiculous amount of hours before his first race. I think ultimatley at the end of the day, F1 drivers can't really learn any more car control, they know what they know. The setup of the car changes every week too. Of course with experience they will learn new things, with different tracks, setups, tyres, weather condition etc. There isn't much they can do otherwise to learn all that.

Unlike other sports where training is important, the technical aspects of driving a car are imbedded to an individual's cognitive function. You can always learn how to throw a baseball faster, straighter with better technique / power or whatever, but you really cant improve on your heel-toe-downshifts...You can either do it, and do it perfectly. Or you just can't do it. Obviously these drivers can, but other things such as concentration and fitness levels come into play, and those are things drivers work on constantly.

[T-Mobile]

Unlike other sports where training is important, the technical aspects of driving a car are imbedded to an individual's cognitive function. You can always learn how to throw a baseball faster, straighter with better technique / power or whatever, but you really cant improve on your heel-toe-downshifts...You can either do it, and do it perfectly. Or you just can't do it. Obviously these drivers can, but other things such as concentration and fitness levels come into play, and those are things drivers work on constantly.

Bulls***

You can always learn to throw a baseball better? I understand you may be from Europe, but tell that to any baseball player. I don't see why you can't improve on shifting technique, its really just like anything else. The only thing stopping F1 drivers from practicing more is the fact that they can't get on the track in an F1 whenever they want.

[Clatter]

Seriously, how can they practise? It's not like they can just jump in an F1 car anytime they want. Sure they can use the simulator, or mess around in carts or other cars, but nothing is going to replicate the real thing.

[faaaz]

Bulls***

You can always learn to throw a baseball better? I understand you may be from Europe, but tell that to any baseball player. I don't see why you can't improve on shifting technique, its really just like anything else. The only thing stopping F1 drivers from practicing more is the fact that they can't get on the track in an F1 whenever they want.

From Australia, and of course you can learn new techniques on curving the ball etc. I don't see how you can improve your downshifts? Through junior categories etc where these drivers come through, that literally has to be perfect. IF your gearshifts are suboptimal you would never be able to drive in any professional form of motor sports.

[apoka]

Vettel recently said that he is practising in the simulator for 20 days per year if I remember correctly. That is much less than I thought (unless he means 480 hours total). The simulators are not just important for improving driving technique, but also for improving the car (they have CFDs, wind tunnels, pre-season testing and the GP weekends but getting some feedback in the simulator certainly can't hurt). So I agree with the OP that it is astonishing that training the actual driving only accounts for something like 20% of the working time of a driver.

[rolf123]

Seriously, how can they practise? It's not like they can just jump in an F1 car anytime they want. Sure they can use the simulator, or mess around in carts or other cars, but nothing is going to replicate the real thing.

That's a cliche.


You could argue that practising any sport will never replicate the real thing. That's not the point. The point is to replicate it as best you can and derive benefit from that. Just because you can't approximate it 100% doesn't mean it is futile.


Simulators were long overdue in F1. They have only been in major use since they have been better able to approximate changes to setup etc. But they have had value LONG before that. Even something like the Crammond GP series has great value (even though it teaches you little about handling).


Pound several thousand laps around a track on a sim and you will learn a great deal. Yes, there is an adjustment to be made to the real thing but it doesn't mean those thousands of laps have gone to waste.


I've had barely 5 driving lessons in my life yet pounded tens of thousands of laps (maybe even 100,000+) in various simulators. When I went on a karting trip once, I pretty much decimated the entire field, nearly all of whom were full driving license holders.

Either I'm the next Ayrton Senna yet to be discovered or it was down to the simulator running.

[Sausage]

A reminder here: The simulators the drivers have access to are custom and non-public. Most likely they are way beyond the average public sims like rFactor, iRacing and LFS. Lewis stating they played F12010 is just marketing.

But I think the nature of circuit-driving is very different anyway from most sports and therefore easier to simulate. In football or tennis you have balls and often they go wherever they please or come at you from your opponent, at all times you have to be reactive. In racing the same corner will be the same every lap. So if they are naturals at driving they won't need as much real practice as say a tennis player who has got to practice all the million angles at wich he can hit a ball.

Racing in many ways after all is not a battle of you against other cars, but you against the car and track. Other cars are a diversion for the real battle wich is going on: you trying to get your car around as fast as possible. If you are fast enough (like Vettel) you don't even need to worry about opponents. And this is why simulators are great training tools.