76 replies to this topic

[275 GTB-4]

1 min research - http://www.lolaherit...255/255_old.htm

Race 1 pole = 55 sec, this well off lady 1:21 - ER THAT IS 49% slower than Pole!!

Race 2 in only an 8 lap (under 1 min laps for faster cars), lapped TWICE!!!

This is just wrong and is clearly Bloody Dangerous in such F1 / F5000 spec cars.

What utter bollocks...any driver worth their salt are aware of how to handle slower cars....what to do!!! Ohhh no!!! that car has a gearbox problem or is off song!! Why don't they Red Flag this dangerous dangerous race...IMMEDIATELY!!!

I HAVE FLAGGED AT QUITE A FEW MEETINGS WHERE JUDY WAS CIRCULATING AND DIDN'T THINK SHE WAS A DANGER.....

[275 GTB-4]

Here here; its hardly entertainment for spectators to see someone trundling around being lapped so often. She's not even featured in the family line up of racing pictures, probably too embarrassing for husband and son, who are the racers.

You are missing the point about Historics...its not about how the iPad app simulates what is happening out there....it is ALL about seeing the machinery being exercised...go and watch Le Mans Series if you want to see point and shoot slot cars

[HeskethBoy]

Slightly Off Topic - but I am certain that Jodi Scheckter was told by his Army driving instructor that he would never be a good driver.
Not that maany years later he became World Driving Champion!

[LittleChris]

Slightly Off Topic - but I am certain that Jodi Scheckter was told by his Army driving instructor that he would never be a good driver.
Not that maany years later he became World Driving Champion!

Ah, that'd go some way to explaining why he had so much trouble driving that tank of a Ferrari in 1980 !

[nicanary]

Slightly Off Topic - but I am certain that Jodi Scheckter was told by his Army driving instructor that he would never be a good driver.
Not that maany years later he became World Driving Champion!

Even more off-topic: Fred Astaire's audition at MGM "can't sing, can't act, can dance a little"!

Sorry threaders, couldn't resist that one

[Graham Clayton]

Jean-Pierre Frey was black-flagged after only 47 laps of the 1989 CART race at Phoenix for being too slow.

[ensign14]

Bit late, surely? If Frey made it to lap 47 the race must have been nearly over...

[Rob G]

Bit late, surely? If Frey made it to lap 47 the race must have been nearly over...

Phoenix is a one-mile oval, so there was still most of the race yet to be run.

[ensign14]

Phoenix is a one-mile oval, so there was still most of the race yet to be run.

Not really, if Frey was on lap 47 the leaders would have been on lap 150 or something.

[Graham Clayton]

Joe Tetz was black-flagged after 43 laps of the 134 lap Trentonian 200 USAC race at Trenton Speedway, NJ on the 23rd of April 1972 for being too slow.

[richie]

Alan Brodie in F5000 was black flagged for being lapped 3 times in 6 laps back in the early 70's. After that he passed the driving to his regular driver Steve Thompson

[PLANE1]

HI FOLKS - I WAS AT THIS RACE AS I GREW UP IN THAT AREA - WAS 17 THEN - I WELL REMEMBER THE CAR HITTING THE STONE GATEPOST - ETC.   ALSO THE TREMENDOUS SPEED DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE MB 300 SLR / D-TYPE JAGS + THE LITTLE FRAZER NASH / PANHARD ETC.  - CIRCUIT STILL IN USE I THINK AS ULSTER G.P. - THANX J.C.    

[Graham Clayton]

During the 1961 Southeastern 500 at the Bristol International Speedway, Allen Franklin was shown the black flag for being too slow, after completing only 3 laps in his '59 Nash.

[Rob G]

During the 1961 Southeastern 500 at the Bristol International Speedway, Allen Franklin was shown the black flag for being too slow, after completing only 3 laps in his '59 Nash.

 

The last Nashes were 1957 models. It was probably either a '57 Nash or a '59 or '60 Rambler; the car he raced at Martinsville is listed as a '60 Rambler.

[Henri Greuter]

How about the two Lotus powered cars of Jean Alesi and Simona de Silvestro at the indianapolis 500 of 2012? Qualified because there were only 33 cars that made an attempt and no-one else was left to even try to bump any of them. Were they black flagged or told to pit by the crews?

Henri

[bschenker]

Clay Regazzoni had an Austine Sprite 950, original engine but changed body by Himself, the car did not go faster but was heavier.

 

With this car Clay started a couple of races of the 1963 Swiss Championship, as well as at 13.10.1963 at the race in Monza.

 

Because of the changes to the car, he had to start in the GT 1300cc class. Thus came what was to come after 3 ~ 4 laps the first cars overlapped him and so he got a lap later the black flag due to slow driving.

 

.

[Graham Clayton]

Fred Burgess was shown the back flag after only 1 lap of the 1912 French Grand Prix at Dieppe, as his Calthorpe was considered to be too slow. The other two Calthorpes weren't black flagged, so it seems that Burgess was the problem, and not the car.

http://www.teamdan.c.../1912/1912.html

[Tim Murray]

I don't think he was actually black-flagged (ie prevented from continuing in the race), just disqualified from the results. Here's what TASO Mathieson wrote in Grand Prix Racing 1906 - 1914:

Burgess (Calthorpe), who had taken five hours for his first lap having had to dismantle a defective steering box, continued but stood little or no chance of finishing within the time limit.

[opplock]

I was pleasantly surprised by a question on The Chase yesterday (UK TV quiz show)

 

Why was Al Pease disqualified in the 1969 Canadian GP?

 

A) Failing a drug test

B) Driving too slow

C) not having a licence

 

The contestant guessed correctly.

[chunder27]

Having been to a few historic meetings in recent years the quality of the driving in a lot of classes is questionable.

 

Judy is a liability but thankfully most of the time on a big track, with not a massive grid of cars.

 

It is perhaps worse in a huge grid of cars to be perhaps 25 secs a lap off the pace in cars of equal speed. Then you are not quite slow enough to be very easy to pass but slow enough to be a real pain in the arse.

 

I have seen the trundling Surtees a few times, and it is rather embarrassing. Not a great advert for the car or the series, and surely if it were someone else they might be questioned about it.

 

But, as I say I think the drivers out there realise it, know about it and understand it. It is not a great sight for fans and people who perhaps don't know much about the sport though and that is something else entirely.

 

I remember being monstrously disappointed a few times over the years when I have gone to things like Classic or Goodwood really looking forward to seeing a particular car and then watched it being driven slower than my road car. That is not seeing a car being exercised, it is watching it drive past on the road, it's a race car OR a museum piece. Not inbetween surely.

 

I understand why, some of this stuff if worth a lot of money, but it is built for a purpose, and if you are rich enough to buy it, you are rich enough to allow someone to drive who can do it justice and also repair it if it goes wrong, or you really shouldn't have bought it!

Edited by chunder27, 08 December 2016 - 11:07.

[D28]

I was pleasantly surprised by a question on The Chase yesterday (UK TV quiz show)

 

Why was Al Pease disqualified in the 1969 Canadian GP?

 

A) Failing a drug test

B) Driving too slow

C) not having a licence

 

The contestant guessed correctly.

While technically correct, the number of times this feat is mentioned, and emphasized suggests Pease accomplished nothing else in a 30 year career of amateur racing; even his obit at 92 pointed out this unfortunate race.

Pease actually could drive quicker, as his qualifying times indicate they were better than 3 others on the grid. The old Eagle-Climax was in the same state of development as when purchased 2 years earlier. In the race he had 2 incidents. one on lap 1 and the other as the leaders began lapping him. While he was slow, it was more a problem of not staying off the racing line that lead to the DQ. I believe on a different circuit he might have trundled along all afternoon, but at Mosport, particularly in the chute approaching turn 5 there is no real off line space.

I strongly suspect others before or since have lapped at differentials greater than his and have avoided incidents and black flags.

In any event, Pease, while not of  F1 caliber,  was known for more than simply driving too slow.

[Sharman]

It might be of more import to consider those drivers who are driving too quickly for their capabilities. Judy can be driven round but it is bloody difficult to get out of the way of an 800 bhp CanAm car, being conducted by a money bags with more balls than skill, when it arrives at a corner 50 mph too fast or gets completely out of shape when being lapped. A friend (very well regarded professional driver) has now decided that his McLaren, and more sobering, his life, are worth more than his pleasure and will not be running the car again until some form of competence test is introduced.
typo edit

Edited by Sharman, 08 December 2016 - 16:53.

[Rob Ryder]

chunder27, when was Judy black flagged  (this topic)?

...or when did Judy cause an accident - less times than Hamster I bet!!

[Graham Clayton]

How about the two Lotus powered cars of Jean Alesi and Simona de Silvestro at the indianapolis 500 of 2012? Qualified because there were only 33 cars that made an attempt and no-one else was left to even try to bump any of them. Were they black flagged or told to pit by the crews?

Henri

Henri,

They were definitely black-flagged after just 9 laps:

https://www.crash.ne...lesi-early-exit

[Lee Nicolle]

Meanwhile Simona is driving a slow Datsun stockcar and while somewhere on the pace is an accident waiting too happen. And they do,, frequently.

Average finish of around 20th, in a field of 24.

Edited by Lee Nicolle, 03 June 2019 - 11:41.

[BRG]

Just to show that these millennials can match anything the older generations managed, we have a new contender:  Not actually black flagged because I understand that the use of a black flag is now considered to be racist, but banned, which comes to the same thing

Formula 2 driver Mahaveer Raghunathan has been banned from the next round of the championship in Austria after collecting a total of 12 penalty points on his licence, which results in an automatic ban.
The MP Motorsport driver collected nine of his penalty points in today’s feature race at Paul Ricard. The stewards ruled he failed to observe the Virtual Safety Car procedure on each of the three occasions it was deployed, handing him three penalty points for each infringement. He was also given a 15-second time penalty.

https://www.racefans...ts-in-one-race/

 

This guy has been entertaining fans all season with his stellar lack of pace and total ignorance of the rules, let alone of what a racing driver is supposed to be.  Taking the chequered flag twice  in one race was a particular high point.

[ensign14]

To be fair, Raghunathan wasn't banned for being too slow, but for being too fast...

 

Maybe he's colour-blind?  Thinking that the green is the yellow and vice versa?