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Nürburgring. A few b&w pictures from my friend's archive


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#1001 marclaus

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Posted 24 January 2015 - 13:10

 

There was (and still is) a good reason why the left-right "chicane" at Adenauer Forst attracts so many spectators on a day with tourist drives: too many of the drivers overestimate the speed that the left turn allows and need to go across the curbs.

obviously  you can not really estimate the left, as in the approach you are too deep to oversee this part, but the armco, you can still see, is going straight on, so many unexperienced think,  the track would follow this line, so they suddenly notice, the curve is much more bent, not following the armcos. Thus they try to avoid to hit the curbs and the dusty safety area with too much steering , which results often in spins , in the early time rollers (hairy crashs you can watch at youtube).

This picture i took in 1968, still no armcos, but the line of the bushes also caused wrong  impressions. This section always suffered unclean tarmac as well ,as you can see from the dirt on the track, very slippery during  wet conditions.

1968_6std_tourenwagen3.jpg


Edited by marclaus, 24 January 2015 - 13:11.


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#1002 wolf sun

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Posted 24 January 2015 - 14:03

Klaus, you've got first-hand experience of driving on the Ring both before and after the rebuild in '70. I'd very much like to read more from you with regards to the changes that were made - everyone knows about Brünnchen, but there were many more, weren't there...(sorry for going off topic a bit)



#1003 Arese

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Posted 24 January 2015 - 23:08

@ Klaus: thank you for posting the photo. @ wolf: don't worry about going off topic; it was me starting this short detour.

 

Karussell, some 40 years ago: no armco, but a wooden TV tower.

 

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#1004 Arese

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Posted 24 January 2015 - 23:12

Wippermann (with a few 100 meters to go to Brünnchen)

 

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It seems to me that the guard rail on the right is still the same with 3 rails instead of 2.

 

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#1005 Arese

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Posted 25 January 2015 - 09:24

Schwalbenschwanz ("little carousel") ...

 

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#1006 Arese

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Posted 25 January 2015 - 09:26

... and we are back at Hohenrain chicane, the one that was built for the 1967 season and that would slow down the cars at the end of the long high speed section ("Döttinger Höhe"), so that they would not enter the pit straight at maximum speed.

 

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#1007 Arese

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Posted 25 January 2015 - 09:42

Back to topic. :)

 

Eifelrennen 1966 (I think).

 

eifelrennen_1966_018k1buc.jpg


Edited by Arese, 25 January 2015 - 09:50.


#1008 marclaus

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Posted 25 January 2015 - 10:15

good morning,

to get some inboard impressions from the track, there is a fine link,  click on the different track-sections :

http://www.pro-steil...enabschnitt.htm.

 

I would like more to add some pictures from the track, when it was still framed with hedges, as this picture from 1969, Eifelrennen , still with the high winged Formula 2 cars and so many  F1-drivers in the grid.

Look at the crowds at Klostertal hill, ....and it was April , cold and wet

 

 

1969_eifelpokal_f2.jpg


Edited by marclaus, 25 January 2015 - 10:18.


#1009 marclaus

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Posted 25 January 2015 - 10:44

Early track had no armcos, in the mid sixties, some were fitted, at  Karussell for example armcos were fitted only partly , still the hedges at the place, where the TV tower was.

Quite interesting, the loud-speaker (out of view) on the left for race comments, which were in German, English and even in French language, as the spectators were very international. Picture dates from 1000km race May 1967, in the back one of the 2 ever built  Coventry Climax FPF 2ltr.  powered Lotus 47, obviuosly  with engine trouble,  stopped the race.

 

 

 

HSCjLkN.jpg


Edited by marclaus, 25 January 2015 - 10:46.


#1010 Rob Ryder

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Posted 25 January 2015 - 18:55

Back to topic. :)
 
Eifelrennen 1966 (I think).

1965 I think.
Big John was a Dunlop driver in 1966 and he is wearing a Firestone jacket in the photo.

Edited by Rob Ryder, 25 January 2015 - 18:56.


#1011 Tim Murray

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Posted 25 January 2015 - 19:38

At the time of the Eifelrennen in April 1966 Surtees was still contracted to Ferrari, who were using Firestones. However, I don't think it's either 1965 or 1966. In both those years there were clashing F2 races the same weekend at Pau (1965) and Barcelona (1966), and Ken Tyrrell had entries at both these clashing races, so I doubt very much he would have been at the Eifelrennen in either year. My vote goes to 1967.

#1012 Arese

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Posted 25 January 2015 - 21:23

I have really no idea as to when Harry took the Tyrrell/Surtees picture. The problem is: the film was marked "1966" by Harry, and it contains pictures from the Eifelrennen in 1966 (for instance Jochen Rindt in a Brabham #9) but also a few shots from 1000 km 1967. Anyway, I am posting a photo from the same scene that I had uploaded some time ago - at that time scanned from paper. So here is a scan from the negative with some zoom-in. Maybe there is another clue.

 

eifelrennen_1966_017b3qo10.jpg



#1013 Tim Murray

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Posted 25 January 2015 - 21:52

Again, I reckon that photo has to be from 1967. Graham Hill drove a Brabham for John Coombs in the clashing races at Pau and Barcelona in 1965 and 1966. Tyrrell, Surtees and Hill were all at the 1967 Eifelrennen, however.

#1014 john winfield

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Posted 25 January 2015 - 22:59

Again, I reckon that photo has to be from 1967. Graham Hill drove a Brabham for John Coombs in the clashing races at Pau and Barcelona in 1965 and 1966. Tyrrell, Surtees and Hill were all at the 1967 Eifelrennen, however.

I think you're right Tim. Hubert Hahne and Jacky Ickx were also there in 1967. I think that's Ickx behind Jabby Crombac.

 

Michael, Harry, Klaus...great photos!



#1015 marclaus

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Posted 26 January 2015 - 08:57

1966, 1000 km race, first lap pictures  at Klostertal

 

Surtees in the P3 Ferrari already  10 seconds ahead of the rest at half a lap (exit Kesselchen - Klostertal), although he hadn´t a good (LeMans) sprint to his car .

 

 

(Today i love much  more the wide-angled pictures , not only focussed on the cars , but showing all the enviroments, although in those days I was quite unhappy with this, as i only could use a normal camera (borrowed from my father) , and a tele.objective  was far too expensive of course ).

 

 

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A trio of Gt 40 came, but the Ford never had any chance to win this race, they were  much too heavy for this circuit, smaller cars like the 2 litre Dino-Ferrari were faster...

 

HZ1Gl6d.jpg

 

The Chaparral hadn´t a good start as well.


Edited by marclaus, 26 January 2015 - 09:00.


#1016 Arese

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Posted 26 January 2015 - 09:37

Very nice photos, Klaus. I do appreciate that you are posting them in this thread.

 

And yes: the wide-angle shots provide more nostalgia feelings and of course much more information about the history of the Ring and its surroundings.

 

Is my understanding correct that this is the particular corner where Herbert Müller lost his life in that tragic accident in 1981?



#1017 wolf sun

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Posted 26 January 2015 - 10:17

 

Is my understanding correct that this is the particular corner where Herbert Müller lost his life in that tragic accident in 1981?

 

I would think so, yes.



#1018 Arese

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Posted 26 January 2015 - 18:22

A close up for the bike lovers. Can anyone name the year, please?

 

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#1019 Arese

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Posted 27 January 2015 - 18:10

This was on Saturday. Within 24 hours he should be World Champion for the second time.

 

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#1020 wolf sun

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Posted 27 January 2015 - 20:46

John, I'm afraid Harry wasn't there to capture these memorable moments in August 1967 with his camera, but I notice that you have a perfect memory of them. So do I when I think of my very first lap on the Nordschleife as a "tourist", driving a 50 cc Zündapp Mofa with 1.5 hp. It was August 1970 and Harry was there, of course, allowing me to share the pictures today.

And, yes, I am more than 95% sure that it is Peter Arundell walking next to Jim Clark, but not Mrs. Chapman on the left.

gegengerv7dsnqmj.jpg

 

 

Re-visiting parts of this wonderful thread, I came across this one - notable not only for the Zündapp and the wonderful B-Kadett, but also for showing the back (!) of a certain signpost...  ;)



#1021 marclaus

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Posted 28 January 2015 - 14:29

1964_1000km.jpg

Brünnchen entrance 1964, today much deeper track (1000km , both leading SEFAC 330 P2)

 

 

 

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Brünnchen valley  1964:from this view, you can imagine that cars were lifting all four wheels at the kink, today nothing left from this spectacular place.

( 1000 km 1964, Willment Cobra and Alfa TZ1)

 

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Brünnchen bottom bridge inside car view : (Fiat 1800 with teddy mascot at rear view mirror,  May 1965, tourist driving after 1000km race) Brünnchen bottom was more hairy feeling  than bottom Fuchröhre)


Edited by marclaus, 28 January 2015 - 16:25.


#1022 Arese

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Posted 28 January 2015 - 18:02

The onboard photo of Brünnchen is just amazing.

 

Another one from the 1966 1000 km race: Ferrari 250 LM with Peter Clarke / Mark Konig:

 

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#1023 marclaus

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Posted 28 January 2015 - 20:26

 

Another one from the 1966 1000 km race: Ferrari 250 LM with Peter Clarke / Mark Konig:

in 1967, Mark Konig started with his own car, the Bob Curl designed Nomad, here in 1968 , when he shared the seat with Tony Lanfranchi, who was so kind, to sign in my picture book, when I met him  16 years ago, when we were racing against each other at Brands Hatch .

The Nomad has one of the most colourfull racing history of the second half of the 1960ies., including, all 1000km and 500km races at Nurburgring  (1967-1969), 24 hours Daytona, twice  Targa Florio, Gran Premo del Mugello, 1000 km de Paris in Montlhery, 12 hours Reims, BOAC 500 Brands Hatch..... and so many others.... Early 1970ies, it was imported as "Lotus" (because of stupid custom-reglementation, , where  no Nomad was named in their lists of cars) to Germany, where is was in collectors hands nearly 30 years . Unfortunatel the original Williams-Pritchard aluminium-body was removed (and got mostly scrapped) because of weight-reduction, and a glassfibre body was fitted. The BRM engine, which came from the fatal accident  Brabham-BRM of John Taylor (GP 1966 Nurburgring Flugplatz ) , which often caused trouble, was later removed by a Lotus TC . One of the most beatifull and very sucessfull one-off prototypes of this period, constructed in a backyard shed by two amateurs. Those were the days.

dC9MLXR.jpg


Edited by marclaus, 28 January 2015 - 20:40.


#1024 Arese

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Posted 31 January 2015 - 11:07

There were times when you drive your race car to the track by using public roads.

 

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#1025 Arese

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Posted 01 February 2015 - 11:15

Again, I'm not sure about the year, but it should be either 1966 or 1967. Any clarification would be appreciated.

 

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#1026 marclaus

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Posted 01 February 2015 - 14:34

Cosworth SCA engine, must be F3



#1027 JtP2

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Posted 01 February 2015 - 14:43

Only an SCA in F3 if you want DQ'd. SCA with those tyres means 66.



#1028 raceannouncer2003

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Posted 02 February 2015 - 06:43

Maybe Silvio Moser at this F2 race?

 

http://www.formula2.net/F266_4.htm

 

Vince H.



#1029 Arese

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 11:33

Back to 1965

 

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#1030 B Squared

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 18:01

The following photo of John Surtees in 1966 was posted by JAPMagna in post munber 982. With close examination you can see friend and author Michael Argetsinger standing with his arm outstretched (in the red Firestone jacket) leaning against a column next to Pat Surtees standing on the pit wall below #15. He was then a member of the Cooper team during the 1966 season. Thanks!    

 

SurteesNurburg1966MichaelAwithPatSurtees



#1031 Tim Murray

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 18:32

Well spotted Brian - thanks. When Mike was a regular here he posted some good stories about his time with the Cooper team.

#1032 Arese

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Posted 12 February 2015 - 19:10

Another photo of Frank Gardner, I suppose.

 

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#1033 Arese

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Posted 27 February 2015 - 22:08

Another Lorenzo photo.

 

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#1034 Michael Ferner

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Posted 28 February 2015 - 07:33

This is probably from the first lap of this race (GP 1965).
 
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Checking this thread for the first time in months (I stopped looking when it became a bit too monotonous with sports cars), this particular picture struck me as the quintessence of an era: Jim Clark and his Lotus in focus, already drawing clear of the field which is left behind in a blurr - magic!

#1035 Michael Ferner

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Posted 28 February 2015 - 07:46

There was (and still is) a good reason why the left-right "chicane" at Adenauer Forst attracts so many spectators on a day with tourist drives: too many of the drivers overestimate the speed that the left turn allows and need to go across the curbs.

bild08altgbub6.jpg


Not only across the curbs... check out the dozens of amateur videos on YouTube, mostly from Adenauer Forst, for some hilarious "amateur hour action"! With the (relatively!) low speeds at that corner, personal injury appears to be the exception, but Kaltverformung (bent metal) was rather the norm, all the way to the dreaded Totalschaden (one-way ticket to the scrap yard). Sometimes it's difficult not to feel sorry for those poor souls, even forty and more years after the facts. :(

#1036 DogEarred

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Posted 28 February 2015 - 10:15

Doing those 'tourist days' at the Ring these days can be dangerous (& expensive) in many ways, even though there are strict etiquette rules in place.

 

I managed to remember the track layout during a race weekend back in the late nineties.

In the several re-visits I've made since then, in a mixture of fast & slow road vehicles & even a Ford Transit, I've had my quiet confidence

somewhat dented by the huge amount of 'professional amateurs', in both cars & motorbikes, who have become highly proficient at turning fast laps in race prepared

sports cars. They spend many spare days & even holidays running around there. They are, to all intents & purposes, professional race teams.

I'm sure that some are indeed so.  Even some relatively small & low powered cars are pedalled round at surprisingly high speed.

So you can imagine that when 50 of these guys/girls are all circulating at the same time as you, I & 'Herr und Frau Durchsnitt', am Sonntag fahren,

one needs to keep one's eyes firmly clamped on the rear view mirror, to the detriment of forward progress & learning the track layout.

It's easy to see why there are so many 'funny' incidents, not only from the day trippers but sometimes from the 'professionals, who do not always give

enough leeway in their efforts to get round in minimum time. The road is almost completely painted with graffiti the whole way round. That coupled with

the odd 52 seater bus & caravanette with the crockery flying out of the windows, makes for a surreal experience.

 

Those 'poor soul' spectators still turn out in some numbers, even today.

 

Great fun though...



#1037 Arese

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 22:18

Eifelrennen 1966

 

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#1038 marclaus

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 09:06

picture to remember Jem Marsh, who passed away this week, here as team manager ( with white arm-bind) of the Marcos works crew  with two cars in 1963, 500km race.

Carlo Abarth was very angry about the nearly unknown cars from UK, made of plywood, with unknown drivers behind the steering, who didn´t even know the Ring at all, which managed to set better practice times as his star-drivers and Ring experts like Hans Hermann in the highly developed Abarth-prototypes. Unfortunately the little Cosworth screamers did not stay the whole 500km distance.

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#1039 Arese

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 10:59

Lorenzo Bandini during a practice session in 1965.

 

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#1040 r.atlos

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 21:46

5 HOT in the background - wasn't that Dickie Stoop's Carrera ?



#1041 Arese

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Posted 08 July 2015 - 17:01

GP 1966

 

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#1042 Arese

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 18:40

On the way to his second Championship.

 

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#1043 Arese

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Posted 27 July 2015 - 17:48

From an epic victory

 

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#1044 Allan Lupton

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Posted 27 July 2015 - 18:33

Thank you, Michael, for keeping them coming!



#1045 bradbury west

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Posted 27 July 2015 - 18:54

Super stuff, as ever, Michael. As Allan says above, many thanks

Roger Lund



#1046 Arese

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Posted 25 January 2016 - 22:34

When there was no chicane at the end of Döttinger Höhe. Flat out onto the pit straight for the last time (1966). This is Mike Spence in the Lotus-BRM, isn't it?

 

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#1047 wolf sun

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Posted 25 January 2016 - 23:55

Just what a shot this is!  :up:



#1048 E1pix

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Posted 26 January 2016 - 04:35

No kidding... and a blunt reminder how much I've missed this thread!

#1049 marclaus

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Posted 27 January 2016 - 19:05

Jacky Steward , Matra
Cris Amon, Ferrari F2
Dieter Quester , BMW F2
Peter Wesbury , Brabham

A page from my picture book: Formula 2 run Nürburgring , April 1969, the epic and nearly forgotten ,

very short period of wings and double-wings.

In those days, still many F1 pilots were competing

in the 1.6 Litre F2 European championship, here on the still hedges-track at Nürburgring, huge crowds of spectators

at the area Klostertal valley, although it was bitterly cold and the race only was of minor importance in the race-calendar

that year. Picture 1 and 2 show the first lap, when the wings tormed the hill and entered the Karussel bend.

 

 

12473528_976370485776119_647538693271280
 


Edited by marclaus, 27 January 2016 - 19:13.