112 replies to this topic

[schubacca]

Who are some of the drivers that you feel could have achieved more?

I post this not to start a flame war, but to reflect on wasted potential... I am a teacher reflecting on some of my students who could have acheived great things if it were not for some issue or another. Some were lazy, others were struck down by illness.

My feeling is that Kimi Raikonen could have achieved more if only he was committed to applying his protigeous talent each and every race weekend.

JP Montoya is another driver who I felt could have achieved more if only he commited himself to racing hard for a 100% of the laps within a race. Too often I noted that something would happen during the race, and the fight would just disappear...

Any thoughts?

[skid solo]

Gilles and Jacque villenueve and mansell

[Diablobb81]

Kimi, JPM, Villenueve. The more prominent ones in the last years.

Edited by Diablobb81, 20 September 2011 - 17:33.

[Andrew Hope]

These threads always end up with 'Here's a load of drivers who won world championships, but not enough of them for me to be impressed'.

Edited by andrew., 20 September 2011 - 17:39.

[schubacca]

Mansell is one that I forgot about. He should have stuck around and collected another title after his WDC season. That said, he was cool to see him do so well with Newman-Haas and become a Champcar champion.

[Group B]

Kimi, JPM, Villenueve. The more prominent ones in the last years.

Can't much argue with that.

Edit. Add HHF to the above.

Edited by Group B, 20 September 2011 - 17:40.

[GerhardBerger]

Montoya - Was very talented but made too many errors and I get the feeling he didn't work hard enough.

HHF - again, very talented but too laid back and too sensitive. Schumacher said he had the talent but not the work rate to succeed in F1. He was right.

[Amphicar]

Chris Amon - he had a positive genius for being in the right car at the wrong time or the wrong car at the right time.

[gillesthegenius]

1) Gilles Villeneuve
2) Gilles Villeneuve
3) Gilles Villeneuve

Imho the most talented driver that ever sat within an f1 cockpit.

[cheapracer]

Gilles and Jacque villenueve and mansell

...achieved everything they could have possibly achieved, you've just cited 2 WDC ffs


Brundle, wrong teams, wrong time and probably too nice.

Rubens, should have been 2nd every year MS was WDC.

Montoya, should have been a WDC, too single minded on beating one driver.

I'll add to that that at least 50% of all F1 drivers ever, they just don't get the teams/cars/chance to prove themselves. pick any driver from any year at random and look at his history that got him to F1, most are very impressive and they deserve to be there.

1) Gilles Villeneuve
2) Gilles Villeneuve
3) Gilles Villeneuve

Imho the most talented driver that ever sat within an f1 cockpit.

Start a new thread, I would be more than happy to subscribe.

Edited by cheapracer, 20 September 2011 - 17:50.

[schubacca]

These threads always end up with 'Here's a load of drivers who won world championships, but not enough of them for me to be impressed'.

Mmmmmmm, perhaps. But their are a ton of drivers that I feel are WDC and overachieved.

Damon Hill....

And also a ton of drivers that raced their balls off without winning a WDC....

[Otaku]

Jean Alesi

[harrows]

I fail to see how Kimi's potential could have made any difference to the extremely unfortunate unreliability of his cars...

Top 3:

1. JPM
2. Jenson (bad career choices)
3. Quick Nick

[schubacca]

1) Gilles Villeneuve
2) Gilles Villeneuve
3) Gilles Villeneuve

Imho the most talented driver that ever sat within an f1 cockpit.

Damn, he was good wasn't he?

[SCUDmissile]

Nelson Piquet junior was pretty highly rated, and he had a nightmare time. Giancarlo Fisischella, and Tonio Liuzzi aswell maybe, and Button before 2009 maybe.

[Watkins74]

Kimi, JPM, Villenueve. The more prominent ones in the last years.

[ColchesterF1]

Martin Brundle
H-H Frentzen
Giles Villeneuve

[rm111]

Fizzy, Alesi, Warwick, Bellof, Panis........

[KavB]

Liuzzi - I remember reading Ferrari were interested in him before he joined F1. I also thought he would do well at Force India but his career has been a disappointment which is a shame as it looked like he had some talent before F1.

Montoya - He had the potential to be a champion and was really close, but it didn't work out for him. He certainly should have won more than 7 races in his career.

J. Villeneuve did live up to his potential, he had a WDC and 11 wins. Of course it would have been better if he was able to keep it up continuously throughout his career, but I don't think he was good enough for much more.

[GerhardBerger]

Panis is a great shout - he was looking very good in early 1997.

[Viceroy]

John Watson, Carlos Reutemann, Ronnie Peterson

[ensign14]

Three drivers who monstered strong Formula 3 fields and did the thick end of eff all in Formula 1. Dave Walker, Jan Magnussen and Antonio Pizzonia.

[cheapracer]

John Watson, Carlos Reutemann, Ronnie Peterson

Strange choice, I think they all did as well as could be expected with what cars they had and their respective team situations especially Watson who is most certainly overlooked in almost every top drivers lists. Carlos pulled out a few stunning and unexpected wins in his time.

[pRy]

Jean Alesi

[billm99uk]

Jan Magnussen
Jos Verstappen
Michael Andretti

[MightyMoose]

Tommy Byrne surely is a candidate.

Jan Magnussen is clearly a contender for biggest waste of talent in terms of F1.

Pantano perhaps could be included. Not sure who to select as my 3rd choice frankly.

I'm not naming those who died or were incapacitated, that's in the realms of speculation and often sees drivers remembered with rose-tinted glasses. Nor will I name WDC or Multiple race winners, I think that's silly to say they didn't achieve potential.

[Alarcon]

I´m sure J.Rindt had been achieved more WDC and I consider him one of the fastest ever, but apart him I´d say:

Gilles Villeneuve
Stefan Bellof
Mike Thakwell

Edited by Alarcon, 20 September 2011 - 18:16.

[Bonaventura]

Heinz Harald Frentzen
Kimi
Montoya

[rm111]

Three drivers who monstered strong Formula 3 fields and did the thick end of eff all in Formula 1. Dave Walker, Jan Magnussen and Antonio Pizzonia.

Isnt Sato the most succesful F3 driver or something? and iirc he was quicker than button quite often in the early days at honda, but would bin it or blow his engine every race.

[Group B]

Isnt Sato the most succesful F3 driver or something? and iirc he was quicker than button quite often in the early days at honda, but would bin it or blow his engine every race.

It's a good point; given JB's showing of late Taku was clearly no mug.

[BootLace]

Johnny Herbert.

[toroRosso]

JJ Lehto, JP Montoya, S Bourdais

[BlackCat]

G. Villeneuve, Cevert, Bellof

[Viceroy]

Strange choice, I think they all did as well as could be expected with what cars they had and their respective team situations especially Watson who is most certainly overlooked in almost every top drivers lists. Carlos pulled out a few stunning and unexpected wins in his time.

Good reasoning, Cheapracer! All three of them had several stunning drives - victories with not the best car. On those days they definitely fulfilled their potential. Had they been more consistent each of the could have won a championship.

[BullHead]

JPM, Kimi, and JV. I don't thinks it's fair to include Gilles or Cevert, they never got the chance simply because they didn't live.

[GX390]

Herbert, Villeneuve, Raikkonen

[Baddoer]

Well, it's a shame Mallya dumped Luzzi so early. His comeback in Monza was quite strong, he really was on course to podium until gearbox broke. And last years Canada - Massa just crashed into him after brilliant qualifiying.

[dav115]

JPM, R.Schumacher, Jean Alesi

[Andrew Hope]

Well, it's a shame Mallya dumped Luzzi so early. His comeback in Monza was quite strong, he really was on course to podium until gearbox broke. And last years Canada - Massa just crashed into him after brilliant qualifiying.

I still think Force India should've kept Liuzzi. I really hope he finds a better ride after this season.

[phil1993]

Christ there's so many. I mean, what would you quantify as not living up to potential? Not winning the title, a race or getting on the podium?

There's also a difference to not living up to potential or simply being unfortunate with drives or money.

I mean, in my opinion you have guys like Pantano who didn't initially live up to expectations, but was in a shitbox Jordan. Unfulfilled potential which was not really his fault. Then you have Liuzzi, who has just failed to live up to expectations.

[m0912329]

My feeling is that Kimi Raikonen could have achieved more if only the car was committed to applying his protigeous talent each and every race weekend in 2003 and 2005.

Had to complete that sentence for you

[sopa]

Christ there's so many. I mean, what would you quantify as not living up to potential? Not winning the title, a race or getting on the podium?

There's also a difference to not living up to potential or simply being unfortunate with drives or money.

I mean, in my opinion you have guys like Pantano who didn't initially live up to expectations, but was in a shitbox Jordan. Unfulfilled potential which was not really his fault. Then you have Liuzzi, who has just failed to live up to expectations.

I agree with your reasoning and hence I would choose drivers, who a) actually got a decent opportunity to prove themselves, but for some reason failed, although they had talent to do better; b) are not WDC's or drivers, who have been in title contention on many occasions, who have cemented themselves as one of the top drivers in their era with real results.

One for me is Frentzen. Clearly talented, but due to feeling uncomfortable at Williams failed. He achieved 3 wins in his career though and thanks to a good car in 1999 slightly redeemed himself.
Fisichella is also clearly a mystery. Rated extremely highly all the way till the Renault drive, but failed in a top team. Also 3 wins in his career, but should have been much more.

Michael Andretti is also obvious. He certainly had more talent than we saw in F1. Commitment was to blame.

[farsailor]

Panis is a great shout - he was looking very good in early 1997.

Still he was comfortable out done by Villeneuve while at BAR.
JV was one of the fastest, if not the fastest (faster than Mika in my opinion) up til 2002 and could have set a bigger mark had he not gone to BAR.

[Afterburner]

I can't beleive nobody's mentioned Kubica or Grosjean yet. Granted, their careers might resume in a few years, but solely based on their first F1 stint, I'm sure quite a few expected more of them before they 'left' the sport. I personally feel that Kubica was capable of more than the single victory he has to his name, and that Grosjean got shafted by being #2 driver in a very uncompetitive Renault.

Edited by Afterburner, 20 September 2011 - 20:45.

[midgrid]

Three drivers who monstered strong Formula 3 fields and did the thick end of eff all in Formula 1. Dave Walker, Jan Magnussen and Antonio Pizzonia.

It's hard to see past these three (excluding drivers who were killed or suffered career-ending injuries before they fulfilled their potential).

[Taxi]

Jan Magnussen, Jean Alesi, HH Frentzen, and till new development, Nico Hulkemberg

Honorable Mention: Jarno Trulli, Fisichella, Alex Wurz, Ralf Schumacher, Ivan Capelli, Pedro Lamy, Piquet Jr.

Edited by Taxi, 20 September 2011 - 21:16.

[Kop Alonso]

Johnny Herbert.

I think considering the injuries he had to his feet (& still has) his career was quite remarkable .....if only Gregor Foitek never raced at Brands that day in 88...

[GerhardBerger]

Still he was comfortable out done by Villeneuve while at BAR.
JV was one of the fastest, if not the fastest (faster than Mika in my opinion) up til 2002 and could have set a bigger mark had he not gone to BAR.

Panis was not the same since his crash in 97 IMO.

[farsailor]

Honorable Mention: Jarno Trulli, Fisichella, Alex Wurz, Ralf Schumacher

What makes you think they had/have more potential than they were/are able to show?

[Taxi]

What makes you think they had/have more potential than they were/are able to show?

That will be valid to everyone then. I remember the fuzz in 1997 when those 4 reached formula 1. They were looked as the great next generation talents and there weere bets of who would become Champion first. Lamy won everything [bar f3000 but because he lost one race by having thought it was finished] he beated the likes of david coulthard and stewart at a very young age and had the personal support of Ayrton Senna. Ivan Cappelli was seen as the next great Italian. Héllas he went to Ferrari and it was a completely nightmare.

Edited by Taxi, 20 September 2011 - 21:38.