150 replies to this topic

[Jejking]

I'm having a brainfart here on the perfect driver. What can and are the demands of a team towards a driver, what is the ideal list of characteristics a driver should contribute to? This thread might go nowhere and of course it's bound to drivers in their own era (very hard to compare) but I'm trying to establish a framework, a measuring stick, which you can use to compare drivers. Is there a driver, a best of all time?

How about this for a little list:

Mentally:
- A matured mind
- Dedication to racing and only that.
- Nice alongside the track but business on the track, plus the ability to seperate them.
- Being addiction-proof, being able to deal with constant pressure because everybody needs something from you.

Physically:
- Young
- Strong as an ox
- Prepared to spend a shitload of hours in the gym, preparing himself for battle.

On the business:
- Great attention span in the pits, for details, able to discuss long and hard on what to do to improve the car.
- Motivating team members in every possible way.
- Putting own money in the car to make it go faster (f.e. by hiring a new director or designer).

On the track:
- Great attention span, mental overhead, during the race.
- Great qualifying speed, able to squeeze every hundredth of a sec out of the car.
- Knowing which fights he should take and which ones to let go.
- In direct confrontations to know where the limit is, behaving during attack or defense.
- Giving opponents a hard time without ramming them off or actively hindering them.

Outside the track:
- Open.
- Playful, wise.
- Good to sponsors and being a good speaker.

What can be possibly more asked from a driver, and is the role of a driver limited to this?

Edit?
- Does not get into dirty action when things would not go to his liking.
- Not demanding full number one status because of action or success in the past.

Edited by Jejking, 20 October 2011 - 15:33.

[Szoelloe]

Alonso, Vettel, Schumacher. These are the perfect F1 drivers. At the moment those three are the benchmark. There is then Hamilton, who could grow up to the status, but as I see it, he is not up to it mentally at the moment, due to his upbringing.
The physically section: "young" and "strong as an ox", "shitload of hours' are no requirements. They need to be very fit nowadays, it is a basic attribute. They basically keep that up off-season. Outside the track part: not a requirement if you don't want robots. I kind of understand KR's attitude sometimes. They can be whatever they like.

[robefc]

Alonso, Vettel, Schumacher. These are the perfect F1 drivers. At the moment those three are the benchmark. There is then Hamilton, who could grow up to the status, but as I see it, he is not up to it mentally at the moment, due to his upbringing.
The physically section: "young" and "strong as an ox", "shitload of hours' are no requirements. They need to be very fit nowadays, it is a basic attribute. They basically keep that up off-season. Outside the track part: not a requirement if you don't want robots. I kind of understand KR's attitude sometimes. They can be whatever they like.

The perfect F1 driver...would have won the WDC in 2007 in the macca and 2010 in the ferrari so not alonso (or lewis for that matter)

Would have won the WDC in the RB in 2009 and before the last race in 2010 so not vettel

Wouldn't have 1994, 97 or 2006 on there conscience and would have won 2006? So not schumi either.


OP - you pretty much summed it up

Edited by robefc, 20 October 2011 - 15:06.

[muramasa]

Humble Hamilton

Friendly Kimi

Holy Alonso

Button who came from poor family

Altruistic Schumi

Gentleman Vettel

[Baddoer]

Quick Chandok

[boldhakka]

Very nice OP and idea for a thread

Regarding asking for #1 status. I now think this is a property of the perfect driver. It takes confidence, courage, and automatically falls apart if the driver doesn't deliver. It also increases pressure. It's not as easy as it sounds to deliver after you've asked for, and received, #1 status.

I think the perfect driver is striving to improve all aspects of the chain, and this should include asking for the best engineers to be transfered to his side of the garage, optimizing setup for his driving style, etc.

I would also add
1. Not being afraid of controversy and the media. Given that this is F1 we're talking about.
2. Unaffected by mental games by other drivers and team principals
3. Deal with long periods of poor results due to the car not being fast enough

Edited by boldhakka, 20 October 2011 - 15:42.

[Jordana]

Perfection does not exist so... There is none.

[George Costanza]

The Michael Schumacher of 2000 is a great example...

Edited by George Costanza, 20 October 2011 - 15:51.

[Richard T]

Senna, **** the rest. P1 is all that matters

[BigCHrome]

Vettel is the perfect f1 driver

[SpaMaster]

You don't get one without the other. "Dedication to racing and only that" and "addiction proof: ability to deal with constant pressure"??

"- Great attention span in the pits, for details, able to discuss long and hard on what to do to improve the car.
- Motivating team members in every possible way.
- Putting own money in the car to make it go faster (f.e. by hiring a new director or designer)."
AND
"- Not demanding full number one status because of action or success in the past. "
???

How can you motivate the whole team without being their team leader, hence no.1 status? There can be only one leader. Do you know of a team leader driver who was not no.1? Has there been two team leader drivers in a team before?

Edited by SpaMaster, 20 October 2011 - 16:11.

[ApexOversteer]

- A matured mind
- Dedication to racing and only that.
- Nice alongside the track but business on the track, plus the ability to seperate them.
- Being addiction-proof, being able to deal with constant pressure because everybody needs something from you.

- Not hamilton
- Over half of the F1 drivers have pretty much dedicated their lives towards racing and racing only. It's a basic attribute. Not everyone is like Coulthard and Irvine, besides they only changed careers after retirement.
- Not required. No one said a F1 driver has to be a Mr Nice Guy.
- Agreed, another basic requirement. The driver's enthusiasm has to top everyone else.

Physically:
- Young
- Strong as an ox
- Prepared to spend a shitload of hours in the gym, preparing himself for battle.

- Not entirely necessary, but another good attribute to have.
- I take it as fit enough to drive a F1 car at full race distance. Agreed.
- Basic requirement. Agreed.

On the business:
- Great attention span in the pits, for details, able to discuss long and hard on what to do to improve the car.
- Motivating team members in every possible way.
- Putting own money in the car to make it go faster (f.e. by hiring a new director or designer).

- Agreed. Think Schumacher.
- Agreed. Think Vettel after '10 Korean GP
- Not necessary, unless the team is struggling for funds.

On the track:
- Great attention span, mental overhead, during the race.
- Great qualifying speed, able to squeeze every hundredth of a sec out of the car.
- Knowing which fights he should take and which ones to let go.
- In direct confrontations to know where the limit is, behaving during attack or defense.
- Giving opponents a hard time without ramming them off or actively hindering them.

- Schumacher again. Alain Prost is also right up there.
- Vettel, Schumacher, and Senna.
- Definitely not hamilton.
- Schumacher, because he went beyond what the rules allowed. You have to step out of line to know where the real boundary lies.
- Well definitely not Senna, nor hamilton.

Outside the track:
- Open.
- Playful, wise.
- Good to sponsors and being a good speaker.

- Not needed.
- Again, not needed.
- Again, not needed. Have you heard of the word "personality"? Just be yourself, there is no need to put on a PR show. Kimi basically is a prime example of why F1 needs more cool characters like him.

What can be possibly more asked from a driver, and is the role of a driver limited to this?

Best F1 driver from an employer / team boss' point of view.
stfu, drive as hard as possible, obey everything the team says, play whatever role the team assigns the driver

Best F1 driver from a driver's point of view.
Maximum consistency at 10/10th.

Best F1 driver from a fan's point of view.
Power oversteer, sideways entry and exit. Commitment and daredevil stunts. Think Kimi, Vettel, Schumi, Gilles Villeneuve etc.

- Does not get into dirty action when things would not go to his liking.
- Not demanding full number one status because of action or success in the past.

- Define dirty actions. Is it on track? Off track? Mental games? Politics?
- Any top driver will demand full number one status. Winning at all costs. You'd be ******** not to demand such thing.

Edited by ApexOversteer, 20 October 2011 - 16:18.

[grunge]

the ''perfect'' driver exists only in our imagination..they all have their flaws...the closest thing to it IMO was Prost.

Alonso not willing to take on a 2nd driver with equal footing.,Hamilton is unpredictable to say the least,Vettel ,well im still not totally convinced of his overtaking ability,Raikkonen had motivation issues etc etc.

my imaginary perfect driver would have Raikkonen's speed,Alonso's determination and Hamilton's overtaking ability.

Edited by grunge, 20 October 2011 - 16:21.

[TURU]

My favourite driver is The Perfect F1 Driver. Period.

[faaaz]

A perfect F1 driver is the one with the perfect F1 car.

[ApexOversteer]

my imaginary perfect driver would have Raikkonen's speed,Alonso's determination and Hamilton's overtaking ability.

constantly crashing into Massa?

[flyer121]

One word - Vettel !

[TURU]

One word - Vettel !

One word - Not!

[Kvothe]

Best F1 driver from a fan's point of view.
Power oversteer, sideways entry and exit. Commitment and daredevil stunts. Think Kimi, Vettel, Schumi, Gilles Villeneuve etc.

Lol at you're 'not Hamilton' comments, and the one he should which is exciting from a fans point of view and the one he should walk is the one where his name is omitted.

Vettel is a great driver, but i think if i created a poll i think many would agree Lewis is far more exciting (for whatever reason and I'm sure there are loads and a case for each)

This raises an interesting point about the futility of an objective standard, the likes of which Jejking is attempting to create, when surely people will still be subjectively influenced by their own opinion?

Edited by Kvothe, 20 October 2011 - 16:39.

[uffen]

Senna perfect? Far, far from it.

I support many of the characteristics suggested but I must mention that a perfect driver for his own viewpoint and a perfect driver from the team's viewpoint may be different.
A perfect driver for his own sake will dart from team to team (always in the correct direction) to get the best car and the best support.
A perfect driver from a team's viewpoint may be someone who sticks with them through thick and thin and helps them improve or stay on top.

[ivand911]

MS

[Kvothe]

constantly crashing into Massa?

My perfect F1 driver wouldn't have Massa's crap defending.

[boldhakka]

I cannot believe proper nouns are being used in this thread.

[Disgrace]

Ide's speed.

Deletraz' spatial awareness.

Webber's luck.

Coulthard's one lap pace.

Raikkonen's motivation.

[Shevek]

Ide's speed.

Deletraz' spatial awareness.

Webber's luck.

Coulthard's one lap pace.

Raikkonen's motivation.

Massa's ambition

Schumacher's fair play

Barrichello's stoicism

Alonso's simpathy

[Snic]

Hamilton's facial hair

[Dolph]

How can you motivate the whole team without being their team leader, hence no.1 status? There can be only one leader. Do you know of a team leader driver who was not no.1? Has there been two team leader drivers in a team before?

I'm sure people who are not leaders can motivate others

[walkindude]

Did someone call me?No?

[SpaMaster]

I'm sure people who are not leaders can motivate others

Really? Show me two drivers who had equal footing in the team, competitive performers against each other, and both of them also motivated their team. Two drivers who came together for the team, motivating the team as a single entity, but also went up against each other with all the competitive juices flowing!?

Edited by SpaMaster, 20 October 2011 - 17:44.

[apoka]

The perfect driver does not get bashed in motorsport forums (which amounts to the same as Jordanas post).

[smitten]

The perfect driver does not get bashed in motorsport forums (which amounts to the same as Jordanas post).

So it's a messiah we need, not a driver.

[fieraku]

This guy!

[cheapracer]

Edit;
- Does not get into dirty action when things would not go to his liking.
- Not demanding full number one status because of action or success in the past.

Oh what a surprise edit after you realised that Schumacher, you know, the driver you keep bagging in the relevant threads, fitted perfectly into your parameters

[Longtimefan]

The perfect driver? hmm..

I'd give him...

The Charisma of Graham Hill
The Aggression/Focus of Ayrton Senna
The Charm and Style of Francois Cevert
The Mind of Alain Prost
The Precision of Jim Clark
The Speed of Michael Schumacher
The Wit/Humour of James Hunt

[faaaz]

I give it one more page before the driver bashing starts

[robefc]

The perfect driver? hmm..

I'd give him...

The Charisma of Graham Hill
The Aggression/Focus of Ayrton Senna
The Charm and Style of Francois Cevert
The Mind of Alain Prost
The Precision of Jim Clark
The Speed of Michael Schumacher
The Wit/Humour of James Hunt

The perfect driver would breakfast like Hunt...

[Jejking]

Senna perfect? Far, far from it.

I support many of the characteristics suggested but I must mention that a perfect driver for his own viewpoint and a perfect driver from the team's viewpoint may be different.
A perfect driver for his own sake will dart from team to team (always in the correct direction) to get the best car and the best support.
A perfect driver from a team's viewpoint may be someone who sticks with them through thick and thin and helps them improve or stay on top.

Interesting thought and direction of the thread, it's all in the interpretation.

Really? Show me two drivers who had equal footing in the team, competitive performers against each other, and both of them also motivated their team. Two drivers who came together for the team, motivating the team as a single entity, but also went up against each other with all the competitive juices flowing!?

Well, with recent developments I must say that Button and Hamilton are really stamping their positive attitude on the team although the latter had a bit of a mishap streak this season. Buttons excellent run this season makes him a good driver that is almost always up there to reap the benefits when Hamilton isn't the main challenger. I never thought I'd say it but it's a really great trend. I think this would fit in the profile you described.

Senna perfect? Far, far from it.

I support many of the characteristics suggested but I must mention that a perfect driver for his own viewpoint and a perfect driver from the team's viewpoint may be different.
A perfect driver for his own sake will dart from team to team (always in the correct direction) to get the best car and the best support.
A perfect driver from a team's viewpoint may be someone who sticks with them through thick and thin and helps them improve or stay on top.

Interesting thought and direction of the thread, it's all in the interpretation.

Really? Show me two drivers who had equal footing in the team, competitive performers against each other, and both of them also motivated their team. Two drivers who came together for the team, motivating the team as a single entity, but also went up against each other with all the competitive juices flowing!?

Well, with recent developments I must say that Button and Hamilton are really stamping their positive attitude on the team although the latter had a bit of a mishap streak this season. Buttons excellent run this season makes him a good driver that is almost always up there to reap the benefits when Hamilton isn't the main challenger. I never thought I'd say it but it's a really great trend. I think this would fit in the profile you described.

Oh what a surprise edit after you realised that Schumacher, you know, the driver you keep bagging in the relevant threads, fitted perfectly into your parameters

It's never too late for a bit of reflection, isn't it ;)

Oh what a surprise edit after you realised that Schumacher, you know, the driver you keep bagging in the relevant threads, fitted perfectly into your parameters

It's never too late for a bit of reflection, isn't it ;)

I'm wondering what the wisdom of Prost was, I know his nickname was le Professeur (the Prof)

The perfect driver? hmm..

I'd give him...

The Charisma of Graham Hill
The Aggression/Focus of Ayrton Senna
The Charm and Style of Francois Cevert
The Mind of Alain Prost
The Precision of Jim Clark
The Speed of Michael Schumacher
The Wit/Humour of James Hunt

May I suggest two things: the professionalisation in that era of Stewart, his clinical approach was really effective. And he still was human after all these years, after his retirement. And on raw speed I suggest that Ayrton Senna was better than Schumacher (without going offtopic, I'd like to state I think Schumacher was a bit lucky that he didn't enter the arena around 84 at the same time Senna did. But of course there's another side of the story where experience probably would have evened or influenced the odds out). Schumacher, in that list, I'd give him the title: 'the professionalism / dedication' as a main strength.

I'm wondering what the wisdom of Prost was, I know his nickname was le Professeur (the Prof). He was best known for nursing the car, bringing in the laptimes without asking too much from the vehicle, and being smart on the setup. Am I right? Or am I missing something? I was born 25 years ago and 'only' became interested in F1 from 1996 on so I missed the outings in that career. Maybe you can go into that one from the sideline?

[SpaMaster]

Well, with recent developments I must say that Button and Hamilton are really stamping their positive attitude on the team although the latter had a bit of a mishap streak this season. Buttons excellent run this season makes him a good driver that is almost always up there to reap the benefits when Hamilton isn't the main challenger. I never thought I'd say it but it's a really great trend. I think this would fit in the profile you described.

"Motivating team members in every possible way" - Is that what you think both Hamilton and Button are doing? Sorry, I can't see it. Sure, Button has driven well this year, as did Hamilton last year. But I haven't seen any 'motivatate-team-members-in-every-possible-way' kind of magic from them. In fact, I haven't seen driver motivators in McLaren for a long time, Mika Hakkinen is a start.

Edited by SpaMaster, 20 October 2011 - 21:56.

[jj2728]

I was thinking maybe a robot, oh wait....we have enough of those already...

[discover23]

what's the point of having a "perfect" driver. ? Drivers are human beings each with their own characterics - negatives and possitives.

[PNSD]

Allow Vettel and Lewis to make some sort of love child and bingo, perfect F1 racer.

[pingu666]

or some hedious finger waving facial hair curiousity


Being good with sponsors is pretty much the biggest aspect. then people skills, working in the media, having the right manager, generating hype however they do it.

having a horse shoe stuck up your ass helps too

[PNSD]

Actually, looking at the criteria set by some people there's only one choice.

Jimmy Clark.

[MikeTekRacing]

as Jock Clear has said, it has to be a guy with a lot of skill, somebody who won 7 titles for instance...

joke aside, there is no such thing as a perfect human being, it doesn't even mean it makes sense to imagine him

[ViMaMo]

So what kind of results are you expecting from this 'perfect' driver?

[Jejking]

Actually, looking at the criteria set by some people there's only one choice.

Jimmy Clark.

But where are your arguments?

So what kind of results are you expecting from this 'perfect' driver?

Well, what I'd expect from such a perfect driver is to be on top of his game consistenly. Making no wrong choices in setup or at least documenting every step of the way to prevent the car not functioning perfectly (cars are barely perfectly setup, I know). Minimizing the number of off-days or rule them out completely. Only winning, that's ridiculous in such a competitive sport. Therefore when his car isn't up to the job, then squeeze everything out of it and drag it along as far as possible. In that respect I've a lot of respect for Alonso's approach who is pretty much always on the ball since the end of 2009.

[Jordana]

So what kind of results are you expecting from this 'perfect' driver?

Perfect results so... Very boring races...

[flyer121]

One word - Not!

No use hiding from the truth.
The perfect driver well and truly arrived in Italy 2008

Fear not - you are not bound to like perfection but there it is - right in front of your eyes.

My favorite is also an imperfect driver (infact as imprefect as it gets) - Kimi

Edited by flyer121, 21 October 2011 - 11:39.

[Jordana]

No use hiding from the truth.
The perfect driver well and truly arrived in Italy 2008

Fear not - you are not bound to like perfection but there it is - right in front of your eyes.

My favorite is also an imperfect driver (infact as imprefect as it gets) - Kimi

Great post and great sense of humor...

[flyer121]

Great post and great sense of humor...

Thanks Jordana.
But I truly think Seb has robotic qualities and as very close to perfection -as defined in this thread

Kimi is a special driver and thus is perfect for us fans - btw Kimi is the reason I stayed with F1 at all in those dark days of early 2000s.
Hope he comes back and "decreases" the average perfection of the grid by a few points