649 replies to this topic

[Alan Cox]

News from Goodwood about one of the races headlining next year's Revival:

THE 2012 GOODWOOD REVIVAL TO MARK THE 50TH ANNIVERSARY OF THE AC COBRA WITH A UNIQUE ONE-MODEL RACE

The finest collection of significant and authentic racing AC Cobras ever assembled in the UK will gather at next year’s Goodwood Revival (14-16 September 2012) for an exceptional one-model race.

To mark the 50th anniversary since Carroll Shelby’s introduction of the initial versions of this cult Anglo-American sports car, the 2012 Revival will feature a grid exclusively made up of 30 Cobras and their derivatives. This special all-Cobra race will be a 45-minute two-driver competition, with driver changes in the pits between 15 and 30 minutes.

It is expected that this one-off race will feature an extraordinary mix of historically-significant competition Cobras, including some of the special-bodied aerodynamic Cobra-based coupés. Goodwood also hope that Carroll Shelby will be able to attend the 2012 Revival in person as well, although this is yet to be confirmed.

The race promises to make for an intriguing spectacle and a fitting tribute to one of the world’s most revered, and copied, sports car which has a long association with Goodwood. An exceptional line-up of top drivers is expected to campaign the Cobras. More detailed information about this exclusive race will follow early next year.

[Barry Boor]

I can think of a certain Southampton-based TNF member whose cup will be running over today.

[AAGR]

News from Goodwood about one of the races headlining next year's Revival:

Which, for those who care, will clash directly with Wales Rally GB, which has moved by two months from 2011.

AAGR

[Hse289]

I can think of a certain Southampton-based TNF member whose cup will be running over today.

You`re right there Barry , that will be all my christmas`s come at once. I can,t wait.

[Wirra]

As a 250 GTO person I’m somewhat aggrieved by this. Unless I’m mistaken the AC Cobra was soundly beaten by the Ferrari in ’62 and ’63, and it was only the Daytona Coupe that beat the, by then, three year old Ferrari in ’64. Why isn’t it GTOs in 2012 and feature the Daytona in 2114?

I was looking forward to a feast of GTOs and had planned to travel 17,000 klm to enjoy them, now I find it’s all about popular kit car prototypes! I’m not happy, you all.

[Simon Hadfield]

As a 250 GTO person I’m somewhat aggrieved by this. Unless I’m mistaken the AC Cobra was soundly beaten by the Ferrari in ’62 and ’63, and it was only the Daytona Coupe that beat the, by then, three year old Ferrari in ’64. Why isn’t it GTOs in 2012 and feature the Daytona in 2114?

I was looking forward to a feast of GTOs and had planned to travel 17,000 klm to enjoy them, now I find it’s all about popular kit car prototypes! I’m not happy, you all.

Was it not Mr Ferrari who got a race removed from the calendar to allow the over-complicated, over-hyped under-homologated Italian prototypes to take the crown in the previous year?

Edited by Simon Hadfield, 08 December 2011 - 12:13.

[Rudernst]

Was it not Mr Ferrari who got a race removed from the calendar to allow the over-complicated, over-hyped under-homologated Italian prototypes to take the crown in the previous year?

overhyped cars aside...

does anyone have an idea what the other races will feature ?

Chichester Cup (Formula Juniors) will front engined, thats for sure
what else is ?

Rudolf

[David McKinney]

I doubt if anything else has been finalised yet, but I'm sure it will follow a similar pattern to the previous 13 Revival meetings

[Rudernst]

I doubt if anything else has been finalised yet, but I'm sure it will follow a similar pattern to the previous 13 Revival meetings

thats not what I meant
most race slots are on 2 or 3 year pattern now

For instance : Formula Juniors
2012 front engined
2013 rear engined drum
2014 rear engine disc brakes

some might not a be as regular and defined as Juniors

but dont expect the Madgwick Cup for 60ies sports racers or the Earl of March Trophy for 500s for the next 2 years

I wonder what sports racers will get a go this year and what kind of Grand Prix car

Rudolf

Edited by Rudernst, 08 December 2011 - 22:28.

[David McKinney]

I would say "some races" rather than "most races". The Juniors are the obvious example nut haven't the 500s been there every year?

[RCH]

Was it not Mr Ferrari who got a race removed from the calendar to allow the over-complicated, over-hyped under-homologated Italian prototypes to take the crown in the previous year?

Err no! Well not the way it seems to have entered popular legend. The Coppa Inter Europa at Monza was only ever a doubtful entry in the over 2-litre section of the 1964 GT Championship. No doubt the Italian organisers were reluctant to run the race in front of an Italian crowd following an Aston Martin win in '63 and the likelihood of a Daytona Coupe win in '64. A race did run, included Prototypes and was won by Vaccarella in a 250LM from Salvadori and Piper in similar cars. There was no intervention by Ferrari to cancel the race at the last minute so that Ferrari did not loose the championship because the race was never included anyway!

There was actually a later race that year, at Bridgehampton, which saw a grand total of zero GTO runners.

Check out DSJ's notes from the Italian GP in the relevant issue of Motor Sport.

[Tim Murray]

Is anyone else worried about this apparent steady increase in 'one-make' historic racing? Originally the E-Type races were just to be part of the 50th anniversary celebrations in 2011; now they are set to continue next year, joined by this Cobra-only race. The complete dominance of one-make racing in the modern racing scene is one of the reasons I have very little interest in it. I'd hate to see the same thing happen in historic racing.

Edited by Tim Murray, 09 December 2011 - 08:50.

[rbm]

I would say "some races" rather than "most races". The Juniors are the obvious example nut haven't the 500s been there every year?

last time the 500's were at Goodwood was 2008

Richard

[Dutchy]

last time the 500's were at Goodwood was 2008

Richard

And therefore unlikely to return before 2014 I would assume.

Sadly

I would agree that the new fashion for one make/model historic races is an unfortunate development and shows little imagination or flair

Edited by Dutchy, 09 December 2011 - 12:33.

[Eric Dunsdon]

Is anyone else worried about this apparent steady increase in 'one-make' historic racing? Originally the E-Type races were just to be part of the 50th anniversary celebrations in 2011; now they are set to continue next year, joined by this Cobra-only race. The complete dominance of one-make racing in the modern racing scene is one of the reasons I have very little interest in it. I'd hate to see the same thing happen in historic racing.

Unless they happen to be races for Alfa Romeo's and Maserati's I quite agree Tim. Its usually Trade Mall time otherwise.

[Bauble]

I remember may years ago the VSCC had a race exclusively for ERA's! How boring, luckily it was never repeated - One Make Races! Bah!!

[David Beard]

I remember may years ago the VSCC had a race exclusively for ERA's! How boring, luckily it was never repeated - One Make Races! Bah!!

I agree. One make races are rubbish.









Unless the one make is the ERA.

[Simon Arron]

Would Formula Lotus 16 appeal, David?

[David Beard]

Would Formula Lotus 16 appeal, David?

Even with 9 of the 8 original cars it wouldn't be a big enough field...

[Simon Arron]

It would at Longridge...

[Phil Rainford]

It would at Longridge...

Two heats and a final at Longridge without a problem...


PAR

[john ruston]

You could include all the new bitza Lotus 16's as last year.Make for bigger grid!

[David Beard]

Two heats and a final at Longridge without a problem...


PAR

So there is to be the Longridge Revival?
Top Gear project to shift the caravans?

[Davidson10]

I remember may years ago the VSCC had a race exclusively for ERA's! How boring, luckily it was never repeated - One Make Races! Bah!!

There have, actually, been a number of E.R.A.-only races organised by the VSCC, Bob. Generally held to celebrate a milestone anniversary. One of the more recent ones in 1999 was tremendous when Martin Stretton charged through from the back of the grid to win from Ludovic Lindsay and David Morris, with Michael Steele's R4D.

[pete53]

I also am not particularly excited by one-make races. I suspect the organisers are trying to offer something a bit different (ironic comment noted as all cars will be the same). Inevitably the very nature of the Revival means that there will be repetition and it becomes increasingly difficult to offer something new. Unfortunately I guess it will mean that the TT Celebration will be without the Cobras just as this year it was missing the E-types. A pity.

[Wirra]

... Inevitably the very nature of the Revival means that there will be repetition and it becomes increasingly difficult to offer something new. ...

I can understand that philosophy for any business/venture struggling for sales/revenue but surely, with sell-out ticket sales, the Revival in its present form is delivering exactly what people want. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

[Roger Clark]

I can understand that philosophy for any business/venture struggling for sales/revenue but surely, with sell-out ticket sales, the Revival in its present form is delivering exactly what people want. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

That begs the question of whether the one-make race generates any extra revenue. Did Jaguar this year, and Ford next, provide any sponsorship?

Regardless of that, I think the Festival, of the two Goodwood meetings, is the more appropriate for celebrations of this kind. It does such things very well and a knot of Cobras in front of the House would be wonderful. The Revival always has timetable pressure and a Cobra race means that something else has to make way. It is billed as A Magical Step Back In Time, and it does, largely, manage to recreate the atmosphere of the 50s and 60s. Let's hope it continues to do so.

[Belmondo]

Is anyone else worried about this apparent steady increase in 'one-make' historic racing? Originally the E-Type races were just to be part of the 50th anniversary celebrations in 2011; now they are set to continue next year, joined by this Cobra-only race. The complete dominance of one-make racing in the modern racing scene is one of the reasons I have very little interest in it. I'd hate to see the same thing happen in historic racing.

Yes. I really don't like them. Not keen on the all-Italian series either although I can understand not wanting to race those cars against Lola T70s.

BTW I think the VSCC ran an all-Bugatti race at Silverstone (won by Neil Corner?) as well as the ERA ones.

[David McKinney]

The VSCC has done all-Maserati races, too

[Vitesse2]

One-make races for ERAs have a very honourable history:

http://www.formula2.net/V1936-19.htm

[D-Type]

I also am not particularly excited by one-make races. I suspect the organisers are trying to offer something a bit different (ironic comment noted as all cars will be the same). Inevitably the very nature of the Revival means that there will be repetition and it becomes increasingly difficult to offer something new. Unfortunately I guess it will mean that the TT Celebration will be without the Cobras just as this year it was missing the E-types. A pity.

Sorry. I have to disagree. If the Revival is to be "an evocative re-construction of days gone", or however you want to phrase it, then a one-make commemorative race is simply not appropriate. The Festival is the place for commemoratives. There are enough subsets of fifties and sixties racing that haven't been pursued anyway. If you must have change, run the "TT" for sports cars, or have a race for 1100cc or 1500cc sports cars, or production sports but there's no need for a race for Cobras, E-Types, Minis, Ford Cortinas or whatever.

[Mistron]

in fairness, there were mini only races in period, so there was some justification for that one, but I agree the subsequent 'one make' races add little, but also detract from things like the TT.

Even the 'one engine type' races like the Bristol 2 litre cars race they held one year was pushing it a bit.

I'd far rather see another varied race on the card to add further variety. Personally, (and I know it's not always the best racing), but I love the inclusion of small engined sportscars or those races in the spirit of the members meetings.

I also can't understand why they've never let Lotus sevens run at the revival?????? that would be great racing!

Just my view of course, and I'm sure Goodwood will be perfectly capable of coming to their own conclusion without my help, just like they do with the campsite facilities......

still, these are small issues/niggles in what remains one of my favourite weekends of the year.

[Wirra]

...The Festival is the place for commemoratives...

Exactly.

Was it not Mr Ferrari who got a race removed from the calendar to allow the over-complicated, over-hyped under-homologated Italian prototypes to take the crown in the previous year?

And that's half the reasoning behind Ferrari's worldwide popularity; they get on the wick of so many Poms!

... under-homologated ...

Still waiting to see the 100 lightweight E-types and Aston Martins - though there probably are these days!

[elansprint72]

Sorry. I have to disagree. If the Revival is to be "an evocative re-construction of days gone", or however you want to phrase it, then a one-make commemorative race is simply not appropriate. The Festival is the place for commemoratives. There are enough subsets of fifties and sixties racing that haven't been pursued anyway. If you must have change, run the "TT" for sports cars, or have a race for 1100cc or 1500cc sports cars, or production sports but there's no need for a race for Cobras, E-Types, Minis, Ford Cortinas or whatever.

Absolutely agree.
It would be nice to have an all-Elan 50th anniversary race somewhere but I don't think the Revival is the place. Possibly Silverstone is putting one on. I imagine that there will be plenty of MGB anniversary races, which is OK I guess, but if you compare the number of Bs built vs Bs raced and Elans built vs raced I think the Lotus cars might have a stronger case- I know which I would rather watch but.... I would say that, wouldn't I?

[simonlewisbooks]

The joy of the revival is the variety and while I love seeing real Cobras driven by proper drivers, it's seeing them up against the E Types, GTOs, Zagatos and so forth, just as they were in period, that 'makes it' . Cut out that variety of sight and sound and it just isn't as good no mater which way you cut it.

I can see the reason for the occasional one-make events they have included in the past but they really need to be very few and very far between to have the proper effect.

As for the tongue-in-cheek suggestion of a Lotus 16 race - that's almost the perfect example of why not to go down the one make route. It's a pretty car but such a clinically efficient and stable design that it has to be the single most undramatic Grand Prix car of the entire decade to see and hear in action!

Lotus 16s vs Coopers vs 246 Dinos vs P25s vs DBR4s...great!

Lotus 16s en masse....? I don't think so ....

[Wirra]

I dare say there are probably some copyright breaches here but a fair effort has gone into detailing this wonderful period of motorsport.

http://www.imca-slot...e Mans 24-2.htm

See also the link at the bottom of the page leading to the stirring photo of Dan Gurney in a Cobra at the Targa Florio. I remember that image so well from the cover of Automobile Year.

Edited by Wirra, 11 December 2011 - 02:52.

[Bauble]

I also can't understand why they've never let Lotus sevens run at the revival?????? that would be great racing!

Just my view of course, and I'm sure Goodwood will be perfectly capable of coming to their own conclusion without my help, just like they do with the campsite facilities......

still, these are small issues/niggles in what remains one of my favourite weekends of the year.
[/quote]



Madgwick Cup 2009 Chris Rea.

[Bauble]

There have, actually, been a number of E.R.A.-only races organised by the VSCC, Bob. Generally held to celebrate a milestone anniversary. One of the more recent ones in 1999 was tremendous when Martin Stretton charged through from the back of the grid to win from Ludovic Lindsay and David Morris, with Michael Steele's R4D.

Yeah! Yeah! Smarty Pants!! They also held a Maserati race at See Red a couple of years ago, a fair variety if I remember correctly.

I must admit that I could not be bothered to watch the E-Type race at Goodwood, not my cup of rosy lea atall.

[Mistron]

not wishing to join the massed ranks of TNF peddants, but that's a 6, not a 7.

Also, this raced aganst a lot of 'bigger' cars, both physically and in engine size, and I'd like to see 7s against Chevron B2s, U2s and the like as well as the home made 1500 and 1000cc cars. More of a 'grass roots, members meeting, type event. maybe it'll happen when Derek Bell is honoured, as he most certainly should be by his local circuit.

(not that I am in any way biased, having just bought such a car as a project....)

[Bauble]

not wishing to join the massed ranks of TNF peddants, but that's a 6, not a 7.

Also, this raced aganst a lot of 'bigger' cars, both physically and in engine size, and I'd like to see 7s against Chevron B2s, U2s and the like as well as the home made 1500 and 1000cc cars. More of a 'grass roots, members meeting, type event. maybe it'll happen when Derek Bell is honoured, as he most certainly should be by his local circuit.

(not that I am in any way biased, having just bought such a car as a project....)

Chinese, Japanese they're all the same to me.

[Jack-the-Lad]

Although I find most single make races a bore, what I object to in this instance is the (apparent) exclusion of the Cobras from the TT grid. For me, the TT is the highlight of the weekend, and if an entire marque is to be absent, then the race becomes meaningless in the context of Revival. Perhaps someone here can clarify....will there be Cobras in the 2012 TT or not?

Edited by Jack-the-Lad, 11 December 2011 - 14:57.

[john aston]

Is anyone else worried about this apparent steady increase in 'one-make' historic racing? Originally the E-Type races were just to be part of the 50th anniversary celebrations in 2011; now they are set to continue next year, joined by this Cobra-only race. The complete dominance of one-make racing in the modern racing scene is one of the reasons I have very little interest in it. I'd hate to see the same thing happen in historic racing.

I enjoyed ProCar BMW M1s and Tuscans but very few other one make series.I was bored rigid by the E Type 50 th celebrations; suspect will be even more bored by the same for the MGB. Probably not the Elan as it has always been an iconic car for me. Not an adjective I use very much (unlike everybody in the media) but Elans are just special. But would far rather see an E Type battling an Elan , a Cobra and a GTO than a field full of any of them. The Silverstone Classic Jag race was ..ok-ish but please no more. Hugely enjoyed the October meeting at Snetterton for V8 cars - Tigers, Mustangs, Camaros etc. I blame Classic and Sports Car and its ilk for these endless anniversaries....just seem to produce more blokes in Pringle sweaters talking about what wax they use on their Jags instead of watching the bloody racing.

Edited by john aston, 11 December 2011 - 17:42.

[Sharman]

[quote name='john aston' date='Dec 11 2011, 19:41' post='544 ,,,,.just seem to produce more blokes in Pringle sweaters talking about what wax they use on their Jags instead of watching the bloody racing.
[/quote]

No Brazilians then? Agree entirely about one make stuff. it is meant to be Goodwood Revival and I never saw any 1 make race, with the exception of 7s, iin the years I attended Goodwood before it needed reviving. It was the spectators and participants that needed reviving after a 7s engagement.
And you are right about Elans, I wish I still had my series 1

[pete53]

I'd like to see a Formula 3 (i.e. 1 litre screamers) race. I don't know if there are enough competing F3s out there from 1964 to 1966 to fill a grid, but if not perhaps a little flexibity could be shown to allow '67 cars to compete which would allow the Brabham BT21 and a few others in.

[Barry Boor]

Thin end of the wedge, Pete.

[Bauble]

I'd like to see a Formula 3 (i.e. 1 litre screamers) race. I don't know if there are enough competing F3s out there from 1964 to 1966 to fill a grid, but if not perhaps a little flexibity could be shown to allow '67 cars to compete which would allow the Brabham BT21 and a few others in.

Such suggestions should be a hanging offence!! NO NO NO NO

[Belmondo]

How about a Whitsun Trophy without any Ford/Chevy V8s?

[Lola5000]

what Brabham models will be running in 2012?

[pete53]

Thin end of the wedge, Pete.

Possibly, but an allowance was made in 1999 when the 3 litre Formula One race was run allowing post 1966 cars to compete and it didn't set a precedent.

[David Beard]

Possibly, but an allowance was made in 1999 when the 3 litre Formula One race was run allowing post 1966 cars to compete and it didn't set a precedent.

Mainly because of Jack Brabham's accident?