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Kimi vs Romain - could there be an upset?


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Poll: Kimi vs Romain - Who will score more points in 2012 (326 member(s) have cast votes)

Could Romain top Kimi?

  1. Yes, Romain will be able to tie Kimi on points by the end of 2012 season or even score more! (88 votes [26.99%])

    Percentage of vote: 26.99%

  2. No, Kimi will be the leader in 2012 @ Lotus F1 Team! (113 votes [34.66%])

    Percentage of vote: 34.66%

  3. Meh, Kimi the WDC will be in front, with Romain giving a good charge and collecting about 60-90% of Kimi's points! (125 votes [38.34%])

    Percentage of vote: 38.34%

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#1 turssi

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 15:02

Now with more politically correct title and also with less comparison to what happened at McLaren in 2007.

Anyway the point stands: Raikkonen has been away and is new to Lotus F1 Team. Romain has called his drive "a return home" and will receive massive support from the teams senior staff as well as from Total.

I think this could go either way, really. Definetly it will not surprise me if Romain and Kimi will be closely matched in 2012. Still I have to vote in favour of Kimi, he is a race winner and a WDC after all.

Edited by turssi, 09 December 2011 - 15:12.


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#2 Mauseri

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 15:07

Now with more politically correct title and also with less comparison to what happened at McLaren in 2007.

Anyway the point stands: Raikkonen has been away and is new to Lotus F1 Team. Romain has called his drive "a return home" and will receive massive support from the teams senior staff as well as from Total.

I think this could go either way, really. Definetly it will not surprise me if Romain and Kimi will be closely matched in 2012. Still I have to vote in favour of Kimi, he is a race winner and a WDC after all.

Regardless of who comes out on top, I hope/believe it's because they both have done good, and not failed miserably. Grosjean simply should use his chance properly this time, and Kimi, well, he is a proven champion.

I don't find a suitable option. Excepting Kimi to be in front in the final standings, but Romain making a good charge and collecting about 60-90% of Kimi's points.

Edited by Mauseri, 09 December 2011 - 15:10.


#3 turssi

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 15:12

Regardless of who comes out on top, I hope/believe it's because they both have done good, and not failed miserably. Grosjean simply should use his chance properly this time, and Kimi, well, he is a proven champion.

I don't find a suitable option. Excepting Kimi to be in front in the final standings, but Romain making a good charge and collecting about 60-90% of Kimi's points.


Third option now available for your voting.

#4 saudoso

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 15:19

Grosjean is gonna hammer the Iceman. Kimi doesn't stand a chance.



LOL, it started already, and from the seriously established press.

#5 Sakae

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 15:43

Competitive car would be a good start; hopefully not replica of what happened elsewhere.



#6 Boxerevo

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 15:52

LOL, it started already, and from the seriously established press.

There is two things Kimi always did with absolute class.

Monster race pace and no crashes with others.

So i will go with kimi.

Edited by Boxerevo, 09 December 2011 - 15:53.


#7 PNSD

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 16:00

Only for the frenchies ;)

#8 MortenF1

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 16:08

I don't think this will be one-sided; i.e Räikkönen demolishing Grosjean. I think Räikkönen will come out on top, pretty sure about that, but Grosjean will always be fairly close and sometimes able to beat him.
So, third option for me.

...looking forward to read posts from Alonso-fanboys using the margin between the two, Räikkönen & Grosjean, to puff Alonso's chest. That is if it's closer between these two, than it was with Alonso & Grosjean.

#9 Youichi

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 16:14

I don't think this will be one-sided; i.e Räikkönen demolishing Grosjean. I think Räikkönen will come out on top, pretty sure about that, but Grosjean will always be fairly close and sometimes able to beat him.
So, third option for me.

...looking forward to read posts from Alonso-fanboys using the margin between the two, Räikkönen & Grosjean, to puff Alonso's chest. That is if it's closer between these two, than it was with Alonso & Grosjean.


I did a quick bith of maths, Grosjean did 7 races last time, it rained in one Qually, and he had a car problem in another, for the other 5 races he averaged 0.43 behind Alonso.

This season Massa's averaged 0.29 behind Alonso.
Make of that what you will :)

For the record, I think he will be really close, quicker at some tracks, slightly slower at most, call it 12-7 in Qually, and score 60-80% of Kimi's points.

#10 King Six

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 18:47

Your rationale for Grosjean possibly beating Kimi

Anyway the point stands: Raikkonen has been away and is new to Lotus F1 Team. Romain has called his drive "a return home" and will receive massive support from the teams senior staff as well as from Total.

Is actually pretty pathetic.

I'm not sure of the Grosjean hype, he didn't set the world on fire when he was in F1 before, there's nothing to suggest he will now. Nothing at all. Yeah he's a GP2 champ, I'm not saying he's a **** driver, no GP2 champ is, but the hype...I don't really understand it at all.

#11 Andy865

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 18:54

I did a quick bith of maths, Grosjean did 7 races last time, it rained in one Qually, and he had a car problem in another, for the other 5 races he averaged 0.43 behind Alonso.

This season Massa's averaged 0.29 behind Alonso.
Make of that what you will :)

For the record, I think he will be really close, quicker at some tracks, slightly slower at most, call it 12-7 in Qually, and score 60-80% of Kimi's points.


So the guy with no testing was 1 tenth behind the guy with 8 years in f1 at the time.

I would call that pretty damn impressive.

(Extrapolation Fail!!!!!!!!!)

#12 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 18:55

Depends on who is psychologically stronger of the two.

Personally I think Kimi and Grosjean will be closely matched for the first 8 races in an uncompetitive car. Kimi will handle the racing and battles better of the two.

Grosjean will crash more often.

#13 Dolph

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 18:56

My prognosis:

The experienced world champion will beat the the rookie, however, the rookie will impress.

#14 Watkins74

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 18:58

So the guy with no testing was 1 tenth behind the guy with 8 years in f1 at the time.

I would call that pretty damn impressive.

(Extrapolation Fail!!!!!!!!!)

Do your Math again Andy. :D

hint: Google what 1 tenth is by decimal point.

Edited by Watkins74, 09 December 2011 - 19:00.


#15 Seanspeed

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 19:06

he didn't set the world on fire when he was in F1 before, there's nothing to suggest he will now. Nothing at all.

Any reasonable person would see that Grosjean's opportunity in 09 was a bit of a rough one. He was put in mid-season after not having driven but briefly in winter testing. The car was not good. And it was the year where KERS was introduced and we all know how much Renault struggled with that and how it wasn't simple for the drivers to get used to. Additionally, he was partnered with Fernando Alonso, who has a history of making highly-rated drivers look ordinary.

His 2010 GP2 season was impressive, too. He had always been quick and a fantastic racer, but he showed large improvements in race management as well as not making as many exuberant mistakes. Basically, the only things he was lacking before.

He's not only been involved with the testing of these tires, but he's also ran the 2010 GP2 season on them, so he shouldn't have many problems with them. All in all, I'd say there's quite a few things to suggest he could do well. Very well.

Give him a full winter of testing and let him rip. I think a lot of people will be surprised and if Kimi has trouble adapting back, I can see Grosjean beating him over the season. Even if Kimi doesn't have troubles, I think Grosjean could give him a real run for his money.

#16 Mr j

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 19:08

I think the only upset will be amongst all the Kimi haters when Kimi beats Grosjean. But hey, you can always hope!

On a more serious note though, I think Grosjean is fast but he's always been a little bit reckless when in midfield, even in GP2. He tends to be a little bit too overambitious and get in to trouble and I think we will see this next year again.

If you thought Petrov was crashprone in his first year don't be surprised if RG is even worse.

#17 primer

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 19:15

I cannot decide which of these scenarios would be an upset: Kimi outperforming Grossjean, or vice versa. :lol:



#18 turssi

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 19:31

Your rationale for Grosjean possibly beating Kimi is actually pretty pathetic.

I'm not sure of the Grosjean hype, he didn't set the world on fire when he was in F1 before, there's nothing to suggest he will now. Nothing at all. Yeah he's a GP2 champ, I'm not saying he's a **** driver, no GP2 champ is, but the hype...I don't really understand it at all.


If you mean I should be more like Kimi's media persona and not care about Romain, then maybe you're right.

Too bad we can't all be Kimi, this is proven by the poll that is producing no decisive results: It's 33/33/33% between the three options!

#19 Mr j

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 19:39

If you mean I should be more like Kimi's media persona and not care about Romain, then maybe you're right.

Too bad we can't all be Kimi, this is proven by the poll that is producing no decisive results: It's 33/33/33% between the three options!


The ones who don't want Kimi to be ahead, the ones who want him and the others. That it what the results say.

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#20 turssi

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 19:57

The ones who don't want Kimi to be ahead, the ones who want him and the others. That it what the results say.


I have a little more faith in the forum posters than you: These votes certainly are more based on facts than just wants and do-not-wants.

Maybe there are just not enough well known facts available for us to foresee what's going to happen in 2012. So many unknowns about what the Lotus F1 Team operation will be able to pull off in 2012...

#21 Mr j

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 20:05

I have a little more faith in the forum posters than you: These votes certainly are more based on facts than just wants and do-not-wants.

Maybe there are just not enough well known facts available for us to foresee what's going to happen in 2012. So many unknowns about what the Lotus F1 Team operation will be able to pull off in 2012...


It wasn't my intention to critize the thread, it's as good as any other but you say that the votes are based on facts but then you say that there are not enough well known facts available for us to foresee what's going to happen in 2012.

With that in mind I think I'll stick with my prior post.

#22 Bloggsworth

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 20:15

I expect Grosjean to beat Raikkonen consistently - Kimi will lose interest in his uncompetetive car and run back to his bank.

#23 Mr j

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 20:22

I expect Grosjean to beat Raikkonen consistently - Kimi will lose interest in his uncompetetive car and run back to his bank.


You mean hope. I know it's easy to mistake those words.


#24 intelligentsia

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 20:38

Well it doesn't seem like there is going to be any upset the poll is equal.

Kimi hasn't driven any single seater in two years. Boullier is Grosjean's manager, and he has a bad history with drivers. It seems like Kimi could easily be caught out by politics, again. So I vote for Grosjean.

#25 Mr j

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 21:27

Well it doesn't seem like there is going to be any upset the poll is equal.

Kimi hasn't driven any single seater in two years. Boullier is Grosjean's manager, and he has a bad history with drivers. It seems like Kimi could easily be caught out by politics, again. So I vote for Grosjean.


Honestly?

#26 Watkins74

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 21:34

I think it sucks for both drivers that they can't get more testing in.

#27 PretentiousBread

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 21:36

I voted yes. I never gave Grosjean the credit he deserved for his 2009 stint in the Renault - considering his almost lack of experience in an F1 car he didn't do too bad, and it looks like he's on an upward trend since that difficult part of his career - won the GP2 title easily against some pretty decent competition.

We now know what a huge detrimental effect 3 years out had on Schumacher's level of performance, so it's reasonable to assume that Raikkonen is going to struggle a bit with this too after two years out (and that hurt Schumacher)

#28 gm914

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 21:57

Although I could give a rat's ass about the Team's performance, the driver battle will be the most exciting its been in years at Enstone.

Romain for the lead by season's end is my vote.
I'm glad to see him back in F1 again, although I thought "for sure" it would be with Williams.
Ol' Frank could have had a pairing of salad (romain) and pasta at the helm, and approached Sizzler as their title Sponsor.

Missed opportunity, Sir Frank...:rolleyes:


#29 sniper80

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 21:59

Kimi will destroy Grosjean in the same car. It will probably end Romain's F1 career a 2nd time and forgood.
I don't get the hype around his GP2 title. Competition & quality was pathetic in GP2 this year. Forgot Monaco? :D

Edited by sniper80, 09 December 2011 - 22:01.


#30 Concorde

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 22:06

My prognosis:

The experienced world champion will beat the the rookie, however, the rookie will impress.

I'll go with that but all depends on the car if that's sh!t it will be difficult for both of them to show their true colours.

#31 intelligentsia

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 22:23

Honestly?


Honestly yeah, I happy to be proven wrong but looking at Boullier's track record I am not that optimistic at the moment.


#32 sniper80

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 22:25

Boullier will be replaced by Gerhard Berger before the start of the season. Mark my words :wave:

#33 Andy865

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 22:27

Boullier will be replaced by Gerhard Berger before the start of the season. Mark my words :wave:


Considering he's now the f1 commissioner, i'd take that bet.

#34 Headspin

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 22:34

I don't think this will be one-sided; i.e Räikkönen demolishing Grosjean. I think Räikkönen will come out on top, pretty sure about that, but Grosjean will always be fairly close and sometimes able to beat him.
So, third option for me.

...looking forward to read posts from Alonso-fanboys using the margin between the two, Räikkönen & Grosjean, to puff Alonso's chest. That is if it's closer between these two, than it was with Alonso & Grosjean.



I did a quick bith of maths, Grosjean did 7 races last time, it rained in one Qually, and he had a car problem in another, for the other 5 races he averaged 0.43 behind Alonso.

This season Massa's averaged 0.29 behind Alonso.
Make of that what you will :)

For the record, I think he will be really close, quicker at some tracks, slightly slower at most, call it 12-7 in Qually, and score 60-80% of Kimi's points.


I also did some quick maths, Fisi was behind Kimi about 1 second average in qualifying without Brazil, there must've been some mechanical problem for Fisi but too lazy to check out. If we take Brazil into count, average is around 4 seconds. That's massive, especially if you compare to Fisi vs. Alonso qualifying average. What does that tell you, i ask? Yeah, absolutely nothing...

On topic, gonna be close with Romain maybe on top in the beginning. But I suspect Kimi come out on top, not with a huge a margin but still comfortably. Then again, could be that he's lost it. I mean, if you're performing on 97 % level, not good enough.

#35 artista

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 22:40

I also did some quick maths, Fisi was behind Kimi about 1 second average in qualifying without Brazil, there must've been some mechanical problem for Fisi but too lazy to check out. If we take Brazil into count, average is around 4 seconds. That's massive, especially if you compare to Fisi vs. Alonso qualifying average. What does that tell you, i ask? Yeah, absolutely nothing...

On topic, gonna be close with Romain maybe on top in the beginning. But I suspect Kimi come out on top, not with a huge a margin but still comfortably. Then again, could be that he's lost it. I mean, if you're performing on 97 % level, not good enough.

Fisi spun and stalled in the rain during Q1, that's what made the difference in Qualy there.

Don't ask me why I remember it :confused:

#36 Nitropower

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 22:41

1 option for Romain and 2 for Raikko? Equility.

I voted a). I feel Kimi's comeback will be like Schumi's.

#37 jbar8773

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 22:43

i believe romain will do better overall but team orders will have bigger impact on the final score with kimi finishing higher

with kimi owning part of the team it will be him himself giving the order :drunk:

#38 Concorde

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 22:45

Boullier will be replaced by Gerhard Berger before the start of the season. Mark my words :wave:

Will you just you away when that doesn't happen?

#39 turssi

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 22:47

i believe romain will do better overall but team orders will have bigger impact on the final score with kimi finishing higher

with kimi owning part of the team it will be him himself giving the order :drunk:


Was this communicated by the team? Man, the ex-renault's ownership is such a mess.


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#40 artista

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 22:50

Was this communicated by the team? Man, the ex-renault's ownership is such a mess.

Nope. At the moment, it's just a rumour.

#41 sniper80

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 22:52

Will you just you away when that doesn't happen?


W...what? :drunk:


#42 Concorde

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 22:59

W...what? :drunk:

Sorry typo I meant if your Berger "prediction" fails will you then go away?

#43 intelligentsia

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 23:14

i believe romain will do better overall but team orders will have bigger impact on the final score with kimi finishing higher

with kimi owning part of the team it will be him himself giving the order :drunk:


Kimi's press spokes person has firmly denied these equity rumors.


#44 CF22

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 23:18

Now with Kimi and Romain racing for Lotus, the only thing not to like about the team are the bosses. Good pairing though!!

#45 King Six

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 00:47

Honestly?

The rationale in this thread is terrible, bordering on laughable. Across the media the Grosjean hype has no basis whatsoever.

F1Fanatic:

I don’t think he’s really done enough to justify keeping his seat at Renault over someone like Grosjean.


Someone like Grosjean? SOMEONE LIKE GROSJEAN. I mean, who is Grosjean, seriously...I just don't understand the hype.

#46 cilurnum

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 01:35

Grosjean looked poor at Renault the first time around, and that wasn't because of Fernando Alonso. He was just poor all on his own. Drivers don't fundamentally change.

The chances of him beating Raikkonen are virtually non-existent and there are plenty of drivers who have won in GP2 who have turned out to be very unspectacular in F1. Grosjean has already proved that once and it's a fair bet he'll prove it again.

#47 Menace

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 01:58

Grosjean looked poor at Renault the first time around, and that wasn't because of Fernando Alonso. He was just poor all on his own. Drivers don't fundamentally change.

The chances of him beating Raikkonen are virtually non-existent and there are plenty of drivers who have won in GP2 who have turned out to be very unspectacular in F1. Grosjean has already proved that once and it's a fair bet he'll prove it again.


:rolleyes:

I certainly can't agree. Virtually non-existent? We haven't even seen them in the same car yet, give the guy a little more respect before you completely write him off before you have even seen him in the Lotus.

Edited by Menace, 10 December 2011 - 01:59.


#48 kismet

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 07:10

An upset is always a possibility in a sporting competition - that's why they compete instead of an official just throwing darts at a list of participants' names, for doG's sake!

Seriously, though, I don't think I'd be horribly upset or even surprised if Räikkönen either beats his teammate or at least puts up a damn good fight. He's done it before and it's quite conceivable that he could do it again. We're not exactly talking about a 50-year-old hasbeen/neverwas here; he's only 32(ish, I'm too lazy to check) and many people are still mostly functional at that age.

#49 Menace

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 07:46

We're not exactly talking about a 50-year-old hasbeen/neverwas here; he's only 32(ish, I'm too lazy to check) and many people are still mostly functional at that age.


I like that.

Welcome back (so to say)!!! :p

#50 cheapracer

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 08:00

Anyway the point stands: Raikkonen has been away and is new to Lotus F1 Team. Romain has called his drive "a return home" and will receive massive support from the teams senior staff as well as from Total.


Wheres the option of Grossjeans will simply beat Kim - talk about a fanboi poll.