124 replies to this topic

[Phil Rainford]

http://www.mclaren.c...atest-drivers-8

Oh dear bound to cause arguments


PAR

Edited by Phil Rainford, 24 December 2011 - 19:16.

[kayemod]

http://www.mclaren.c...atest-drivers-8

Oh dear bound to cause arguments


PAR

Here's your first argument, where the hell is Denny Hulme?

[alansart]

Here's your first argument, where the hell is Denny Hulme?

It seems to start at 14...or am I missing something?

[Phil Rainford]

Here's your first argument, where the hell is Denny Hulme?

No doubt he will be in the Top 13 ( which have still to be announced by McLaren )

PAR

[opplock]

"Also, the drivers are ranked on their contribution to McLaren only - not their overall career"

That explains why De Adamich is ranked ahead of Reutemann and Piquet. What a waste of time. I can't wait for the Williams chart - who will be ranked highest out of McRae, Belso, Robarts, Magee, Ashley, Migault and Vonlanthen?

Edited by opplock, 24 December 2011 - 20:58.

[kayemod]

"Also, the drivers are ranked on their contribution to McLaren only - not their overall career"

That explains Mansell's lowly placing, do I detect Ron's influence here?

[Tim Murray]

So, who's made the Top 13? The list would seem to be:

McLaren
Hulme
Gurney
Revson
Fittipaldi
Hunt
Watson
Lauda
Prost
Rosberg
Senna
Hakkinen
Coulthard

but I'm not sure about Gurney (based purely on his McLaren exploits, of course). Have I missed someone?

[RStock]

but I'm not sure about Gurney (based purely on his McLaren exploits, of course). Have I missed someone?

For his Can-Am effort I'm sure.

[Lola5000]

Its missing all those great drivers that pounded 5 litre cars around,including Matich and little Alfie.

[kayemod]

For his Can-Am effort I'm sure.

From the way they carried on after Bruce's death, Denny and to a lesser extent Dan were hugely important, without their efforts, the company might not have survived, that's why they're right at the top. Denny's dad was awarded the UK's highest war decoration, the Victoria Cross for bravery in battle. The state Denny's hands were in after they were burned at Indy, it's nothing less than heroic that he even thought about driving again that year, but he did it for Bruce. I saw those hands a few weeks later and had to look away, what a man.

[Lola5000]

The bear is right up there for me,tough old street fighter.Would have loved to have scene him have a real go in the 5000 cars.

[buckaluck]

Well I guess I would need the critiriea they based their way of rating the drivers but i'm sure there are a few drivers i'd rate higher then they got along with a few i'd rate much lower but that is me, lets face it Gerhard Burger at 14th with Kimi at 15th!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????????????????
Hell will freeze over before the debate on this one is over, sort of pointless, to many personal opinions to ever come close to being settled.

Buck

PS Yes would have liked to have seen the Bear drive an F5000 car, may have been to much conflict schedule wise when he was doing F1 and Can Am it may have been to much.

Merry Christmas Everyone!

[RStock]

From the way they carried on after Bruce's death, Denny and to a lesser extent Dan were hugely important, without their efforts, the company might not have survived, that's why they're right at the top. Denny's dad was awarded the UK's highest war decoration, the Victoria Cross for bravery in battle. The state Denny's hands were in after they were burned at Indy, it's nothing less than heroic that he even thought about driving again that year, but he did it for Bruce. I saw those hands a few weeks later and had to look away, what a man.

Agreed. I don't think we hear enough about Denny and what he did to keep McLaren going after Bruce's death. I believe it was Denny, through his wife, that first contacted Gurney about driving. We would have probably seen a bit more from Gurney if not for sponsor contracts and commitments that interfered.

[rl1856]

Agreed. I don't think we hear enough about Denny and what he did to keep McLaren going after Bruce's death. I believe it was Denny, through his wife, that first contacted Gurney about driving. We would have probably seen a bit more from Gurney if not for sponsor contracts and commitments that interfered.

Possibly. Didn't Gurney drive for McLaren in 68, after winding up his Eagle program ?

By the time Gurney joined McLaren in 70, I believe he had already decided to retire at the end of the season. He did quite well though, a few Can Am wins and he scored points if a few GP drives. Too bad in a way because he was still capable of competing at the top level.

Best,

Ross

[Vicuna]

The lowest of the low

About as dumb as lists get

[Bloggsworth]

THough neither were favourites of mine, Piquet at 40 and Surtees at 45 is quite frankly, ludicrous - I shan't bother reding the rest...

[kayemod]

THough neither were favourites of mine, Piquet at 40 and Surtees at 45 is quite frankly, ludicrous - I shan't bother reding the rest...

Why not just be grateful for a list of drivers without any Schumachers in it.

[jj2728]

Possibly. Didn't Gurney drive for McLaren in 68, after winding up his Eagle program ?

Yes he did
USGP 1968



Copyright JAG

[jj2728]

From the way they carried on after Bruce's death, Denny and to a lesser extent Dan were hugely important, without their efforts, the company might not have survived, that's why they're right at the top. Denny's dad was awarded the UK's highest war decoration, the Victoria Cross for bravery in battle. The state Denny's hands were in after they were burned at Indy, it's nothing less than heroic that he even thought about driving again that year, but he did it for Bruce. I saw those hands a few weeks later and had to look away, what a man.

Fullyy agreed. Here's a shot of Denny bussing the trophy lass after the Mid-Ohio Can Am round and you can see that he's wearing the gloves to protect his hands.



Copyright JAG

[AJB]

Didn't Gurney drive for McLaren in 68, after winding up his Eagle program ?

Indeed and McLaren also drove for Gurney when his own F1 program wasn't going too well

By the time Gurney joined McLaren in 70, I believe he had already decided to retire at the end of the season. He did quite well though, a few Can Am wins and he scored points if a few GP drives. Too bad in a way because he was still capable of competing at the top level.


Ross

Gurney also drove the spare M8B at Michigan in 1969 when his own McLeagle M6B was sidelined. Despite not having qualified or even practised in the car, and staring from the back row of the grid, he still finished 3rd. True gentlemen; Bruce for giving Dan a drive, and Dan for finishing third, within a second of the other two McLarens.

[buckaluck]

Shouldn't Johnny Rutherford be on the list?

[Tim Murray]

That would make sense - Rutherford in place of Gurney, then.

[BRG]

I'm happy with Alliot at #50.

The Kimi fans will be up in arms about being only #15 - when they have finished unwrapping their new toys anyway.

[delta44]

Steve Nichol's sometimes comes racing with us,I asked him once who was the best driver he worked with at Mc Claren. He just said " Lauda,Prost and Senna".One you all might not recall was Piro who was the test driver around the time of Senna and Prost. Steve rated him very highly

[ryan86]

I'm always wary of lists that admit they contain "surprises". Is it because listing drivers (or anything really) isn't actually that exciting and so to try and gain exposure and debate, they need to fix the order to something that doesn't quite sit right amongst the majority.

[Lola5000]

Shouldn't Johnny Rutherford be on the list?

Well that just shows how out of place this list is.That a 2 time winning Mclaren Indy driver fails the top 50.

[Tim Murray]

We don't know that yet - he may very well be in the top 13.

[Lola5000]

We don't know that yet - he may very well be in the top 13.

Wonder if Frank Matich will be there?

[xj13v12]

Wonder if Frank Matich will be there?

J.R. should be in the top dozen. If Matich has missed out altogether then something is wrong.
Niel Allen for holding the Bathurst record for 30 years and winning the NZ GP should be on the list too. From this far out in time I feel already that the modern racing world is underestimating the impact McLaren had on Can-Am, Indy and F5000 PRIOR to them becoming successful in F1. In fact the financing and strength came fom Indy and Can-am and F5000 success. What number was Gethin? Hmmmm.

Edited by xj13v12, 26 December 2011 - 04:56.

[Phil Rainford]

We don't know that yet - he may very well be in the top 13.

Looks like it may take some time for the list to be completed...........McLaren have been running it since June


PAR

[ensign14]

So it looks like Lone Star JR (2 wins for McLaren at Indy) will miss out but Philippe Alliot (mobile chicane) will not.

Meanwhile, Kimi Raikkonen with 9 wins in F1 is somehow going to be lower than Keke Rosberg with 1 podium.

Then again, the list is being compiled by Alan Henry.

[Arjan de Roos]

I am missing Verstappen and Byrne.

Top 13:
1. AS
2. AP
3. MH
4. EF
5. NL
6. JH

A cool top 13 based on titles, wins and poles...

[wildman]

So let me get this straight: Alliot, de Cesaris and Mansell make the list for their "incredible bravery, amazing talent, unbridled enthusiasm and huge dedication," but Tom Sneva gets ignored? I guess that winning the '77 USAC championship and being the first to break the 200 mph barrier in qualifying at Indy -- in a McLaren -- carries nowhere near the historical significance of being an obese has-been for whom the team built a bespoke monocoque to accommodate his immense girth, and who subsequently quit the team after two forgettable GPs....

Edited by wildman, 28 December 2011 - 18:17.

[kayemod]

So let me get this straight: Alliot, de Cesaris and Mansell make the list for their "incredible bravery, amazing talent, unbridled enthusiasm and huge dedication," but Tom Sneva gets ignored? I guess that winning the '77 USAC championship and being the first to break the 200 mph barrier in qualifying at Indy -- in a McLaren -- carries nowhere near the historical significance of being an obese has-been for whom the team built a bespoke monocoque to accommodate his immense girth, and who subsequently quit the team after two forgettable GPs....

A fair point, but we're not finished yet. Bruce and Denny must be one and two of course, but that still leaves us some missing names to argue over. Alain, Mika and Ayrton will be in there somewhere, but that leaves eight spare places still to go.

[wildman]

I can't imagine Tim Murray's list of the anticipated top 13 is far off the mark, so it appears Mr. Henry will overlook Sneva and Rutherford, in favor of the estimable Brett Lunger.

[kayemod]

Number 13, Daniel Sexton Gurney, discuss.

[Phil Rainford]

"Dan Gurney played only a brief walk-on role in the McLaren F1 story"

Then why at 13


PAR

[RStock]

Number 13, Daniel Sexton Gurney, discuss.

I thought we already did?

Edited by RStock, 06 January 2012 - 18:25.

[MCS]

"Dan Gurney played only a brief walk-on role in the McLaren F1 story"

Then why at 13


PAR

See the final line of post #32...

[Phil Rainford]

See the final line of post #32...

Ok all is clear


PAR

[Phil Rainford]

Shouldn't Johnny Rutherford be on the list?

http://www.mclaren.c...atest-drivers-8


PAR

[Tim Murray]

I'm glad about that. It does mean that one of these twelve:

McLaren
Hulme
Revson
Fittipaldi
Hunt
Watson
Lauda
Prost
Rosberg
Senna
Hakkinen
Coulthard

hasn't even made their Top 50. I suppose it's got to be Keke, but if so I think he contributed a lot more to McLaren than the likes of Alliot, Mansell and De Cesaris.

[Phil Rainford]

I'm glad about that. It does mean that one of these twelve:

McLaren
Hulme
Revson
Fittipaldi
Hunt
Watson
Lauda
Prost
Rosberg
Senna
Hakkinen
Coulthard

hasn't even made their Top 50. I suppose it's got to be Keke, but if so I think he contributed a lot more to McLaren than the likes of Alliot, Mansell and De Cesaris.

Unless of course Bruce McLaren being the owner of the company at the time may not count as an employee/driver?


PAR

[Phil Rainford]

http://www.mclaren.c...atest-drivers-8

PAR

[jj2728]

Denny Hulme at no. 11?......stone the crows......

[opplock]

Denny Hulme at no. 11?......stone the crows......

Unbelievable. Was this list complied by the Alan Henry who was a motor racing journalist? Or someone drawing names out of a hat.

[kayemod]

Denny Hulme at no. 11?......stone the crows......

I'm speechless.

[kayemod]

Unbelievable. Was this list complied by the Alan Henry who was a motor racing journalist? Or someone drawing names out of a hat.

What's truly bizarre is that it's possible that Keke Rosberg who got just a single podium in all his time at McLaren, could be ranked above the driver who most thinking people would agree, did more for the team than any other, certainly in the earlier years. Makes me wonder if anyone at McLaren had any input into this rather poor effort, especially as it's appearing as 'semi-official' on their website, I bet some of them are beginning to wish that they had.

Edited by kayemod, 21 January 2012 - 19:25.

[jj2728]

I quote this directly from their criteria:
"Also, the drivers are ranked on their contribution to McLaren only - not their overall career - so be prepared for a few surprises in the coming weeks and months!"

A few surprises? Are you f***ing kidding me? Normally I take these lists with a heavy dosage of salt, but to exclude Denny Hulme from being near the top of the list and relegate him to 11th place is outlandish in the extreme......guess I'd better start adding a shot of Tequila and some lemon to that dose of salt......

[Nigel Beresford]

Makes me wonder if anyone at McLaren had any input into this rather poor effort, especially as it's appearing as 'semi-official' on their website, I bet some of them are beginning to wish that they had.

Yeah, it's a joke (jeez, they even felt the need to point out that Denny's the one on the left in the pic - you know, the one in the firesuit), but many of the historical features on their website relating to the Colnbrook era contain errors so it's no great surprise to me. If Denny only rates no. 11 then Bruce is probably in at 10...

Denny was famously tetchy with journos (probably with the exception of (IMHO) the best of them all, The Great Pete Lyons), so maybe Alan Henry is still bearing a grudge.

Edited by Nigel Beresford, 21 January 2012 - 22:30.