124 replies to this topic

[LittleChris]

Don't know about anyone else but I never really think of Emerson as a McLaren driver despite the fact that he won the 74 Championship with them. To me he was firstly Lotus, later Copersucar/Fittipaldi then CART. Somehow his sojourn at Colnbrook just doesn't register

[arttidesco]

Don't know about anyone else but I never really think of Emerson as a McLaren driver despite the fact that he won the 74 Championship with them. To me he was firstly Lotus, later Copersucar/Fittipaldi then CART. Somehow his sojourn at Colnbrook just doesn't register

Compared to the hullabaloo of the '76 Japanese GP the US GP in 1974 seemed quite tame or was there a different perception in Switzerland and Brazil ?

[Nigel Beresford]

There was a point about 2/3 of the way through 1973 when McLaren felt that winning the Championship was a real possibility, but of course it came to nought in the end.

When Emerson and the Marlboro money arrived it seemed to raise the confidence and ambition of the team to a new level - they now had the last pieces of the combination they needed to compete at the very highest level. Development was accelerated and Emerson was a perfect driver to help them understand the directions they needed to pursue to get the best out of the M23.

Therefore although in retrospect Emerson's two years at Colnbrook were perhaps lower profile than other periods of his career (notwithstanding the fact that he won the championship, of course), the legacy of his tenure at the team is that it helped them to realise their potential and develop from a very competent F1 team in to a leading F1 team.

And yes, the logic behind the rankings is unfathomable, as if Alan Henry used a William Burroughs cut-up technique to assemble his list...

Edited by Nigel Beresford, 21 September 2012 - 23:38.

[jj2728]

And yes, the logic behind the rankings is unfathomable, as if Alan Henry used a William Burroughs cut-up technique to assemble his list...

Correct are I believe you do.

[Fiorentina 1]

Are they making a list just to make a list? You know when you read Andrea DeCesaris as #47 you know there were probably just 50 drivers.....

Edited by Fiorentina 1, 22 September 2012 - 00:35.

[Tim Murray]

Two to go:

http://www.mclaren.c...atest-drivers-8

This is getting sillier and sillier. Hakkinen in the top two?

[PCC]

Hakkinen in the top two?

Unless I've missed something, Hakkinen is only in the top two if either Senna or Bruce is left off the list altogether.

Do you think AH simply miscounted, and will be reduced to a humiliating solution like awarding two drivers a "joint numer one"?

Edited by PCC, 26 September 2012 - 21:36.

[LittleChris]

Unless I've missed something, Hakkinen is only in the top two if either Senna or Bruce is left off the list altogether.

Do you think AH simply miscounted, and will be reduced to a humiliating solution like awarding two drivers a "joint numer one"?

Ah but then it would be McLarens Top 51 drivers

[kayemod]

Unless I've missed something, Hakkinen is only in the top two if either Senna or Bruce is left off the list altogether.

Do you think AH simply miscounted, and will be reduced to a humiliating solution like awarding two drivers a "joint numer one"?

If Denny was number 11, Bruce might have been missed out altogether.

[ensign14]

Bruce will be left off, on the basis that he can't be one of his own drivers. Like the chap who got off a charge of possessing an imitation firearm because his imitation firearm was his finger. You are not in possession of your finger, it IS you. Unless it's an artificial finger, which it wasn't.

[PCC]

Do you think AH simply miscounted, and will be reduced to a humiliating solution like awarding two drivers a "joint numer one"?

I meant this as a joke. It's a bit unclear when you read this, but I have a dreadful feeling that I may actually have been right...

Edited by PCC, 04 October 2012 - 18:27.

[arttidesco]

I meant this as a joke. It's a bit unclear when you read this, but I have a dreadful feeling that I may actually have been right...

So Bruce it is

[PCC]

So Bruce it is

Well, "yes and no" is the most diplomatic way of putting it...

[Tim Murray]

I meant this as a joke. It's a bit unclear when you read this, but I have a dreadful feeling that I may actually have been right...

I suggested the same thing back in February:

I too was wondering why it had gone so quiet. My theory is that he/they have just realised that they have nine drivers to fit into the remaining eight places.

after which it all stayed quiet for many months. I suppose they then felt that it looked bad just to leave the thing hanging, so they finished it off with this nonsensical ending. So where exactly is Bruce in this list? Is he joint No 1, or outside the Top 50 altogether? What complete and utter bollocks, and an insult to Bruce.

[kayemod]

What complete and utter bollocks, and an insult to Bruce.

And an equal insult to Denny.

[ensign14]

Easiest thing to do would have been to say that McLaren could not be a McLaren driver, because he is himself, ergo outside the list. After all, it would be trite to say that he had to be number 1, on the basis that Bruce was the ne plus ultra.

But Hulme was an outrageous placement.

Then again AH's rankings lately have been something that could be described as a word that rhymes with that.

[Tim Murray]

Easiest thing to do would have been to say that McLaren could not be a McLaren driver, because he is himself, ergo outside the list.

That would have been OK. I could have lived with that. I know it's really stupid to get worked up about something as irrelevant as this, but at the moment I'm spitting feathers.

[arttidesco]

That would have been OK. I could have lived with that. I know it's really stupid to get worked up about something as irrelevant as this, but at the moment I'm spitting feathers.

Given McLaren's preference, in recent times for publically giving it's drivers equal No:1 status the whole notion of a Top 50 drivers at McLaren is a mockery, the list has ended up looking a bit like a list of Ron's favorites. Lets hope Mr Henry was well paid for lending his name to this frivolous entertainment.

[PCC]

That would have been OK. I could have lived with that.

I couldn't have lived with that. It would have been complete nonsense. I personally saw Bruce drive McLarens on a number of occasions, and a whole bunch of people here saw him do so on many more occasions than I did. To claim he wasn't a McLaren driver because he was McLaren would be like claiming he wasn't a New Zealander because he was from Aukland. It's just bizarre doublespeak.

Like you, I'm spitting feathers. I just can't fathom what AH was thinking. As someone pointed out, no Bruce, no McLaren. No Denny, no McLaren after 1970 (in my opinion). Important drivers in McLaren history? There's Bruce, there's Denny, then there's everybody else.

By the way, I apologize for not having spotted your earlier theory about the numbers. I lost track of this thread during the list's long silence - and I am more convinced than ever that you correctly spotted the reason for that long silence.

[arttidesco]

Ah but then it would be McLarens Top 51 drivers

And so it has proved to be

[Tim Murray]

I couldn't have lived with that. It would have been complete nonsense. I personally saw Bruce drive McLarens on a number of occasions, and a whole bunch of people here saw him do so on many more occasions than I did. To claim he wasn't a McLaren driver because he was McLaren would be like claiming he wasn't a New Zealander because he was from Aukland. It's just bizarre doublespeak.

It would have been illogical and I wouldn't have liked it much, but at least we would have known definitely that Bruce wasn't part of the Top 50 considerations. Although the present fudge isn't clear, the message it seems to be sending, to anyone reading the list who doesn't know how good a driver Bruce was, is: 'Yes, Bruce deserves a mention - he was a great man and made a huge contribution to the history of McLaren, but he wasn't good enough as a driver to make our Top 50 list'. This is what really gets my goat.

By the way, I apologize for not having spotted your earlier theory about the numbers. I lost track of this thread during the list's long silence - and I am more convinced than ever that you correctly spotted the reason for that long silence.

Not at all, Peter, you were just renewing and reinforcing my earlier point.

[GD66]

I never get riled by idiocy like this, but have just started fuming and was girding up to fly into print when a light came on...

and I went back and found I had already covered it in post #51.

I now know AH stands for A Hack....

[xj13v12]

So 2 Can-Am championship wins, which financed the company and secured its future, has no merit from a driving perspective? Rutherford too is undervalued as his 2 Indy 500 wins gave the company name the high profile beyond F1 as well as significant funding to develop F1 cars. All lists are stupid (but can be fun), this one more than usual. Not much fun simply pointing out stupid errors and lack of knowledge.

[CarlRabbidge]

but at the moment I'm spitting feathers.

I hope they are not Polly's

[Tim Murray]

(Polly would have my ear off if I started chewing her feathers)