112 replies to this topic

[KiloWatt]

Unfortunately I've not been to a live race (yet), but I'm told that the sensation is completely different from TV. Then a while back, I came across a youtube video of some of this years' cars (search F1 ebd on youtube - it's the very first hit at time of writing - not including the link because I'm not giving bernie the pleasure of removing it). Two things stand out:

1) The ebd on some cars (notably renault powered ones) cause a very distinct rasping sound not heard on TV

2) Not all cars sound alike

I was wondering, if an amateur with a hand held camera can capture this detail, why don't the professional equipment from the TV capture it? Wouldn't it dramatically enhance the experience on TV? I showed my wife the video and she was impressed by sound. I was told the Merc V10s of a couple years back had a very distinct sound as well, and more recently the Honda V8s. But you never notice these things on TV.

What gives?

[pikamoku]

last time I was on a F1 race there were v10 engines, and the experience could be.... painful I remember BMW engines sounded clearly different, but any other engine has its own sound. I could not say that they sound better or worse but on tv (or youtube) I can not apreciate those subtle diference between engines

[flowerdew]

The first (maybe only?) televised race in which I could hear the EBD noise the commentators kept talking about was Suzuka. At first I thought the engines were failing at one particular corner, it sounded awful. I think it's good to know what they really sound like, but I could definitely understand a TV director deciding that noise added nothing to the viewing experience.

I thought I heard something about FOM having less to do with direction in Suzuka than most other races, but I didn't pay a lot of attention. Was that the case?

[tifosiMac]

In my experience the noise doesn't come across on TV at all in comparison to being at the event. You don't hear the splutter of the exhausts or get a real sense of how loud an F1 car is. If you did, then you wouldn't hear the commentators..

[zepunishment]

TV doesn't capture the sound well at all. You miss the clacking sound as the cars change gear coming out of corners. I was at the british gp this year and the renault sounded noticeably 'rough' with the forward exhaust system despite the ban on off throttle blowing for that race.

[Raelene]

i was at the Singapore GP and you could certianly hear the Renault coming!!

I remember years ago at the Aussie GP - you culd definately tell all the cars apartjust by the noise - the Honda especially

[Bonaventura]

Renault engine ( especially at Lotus-Renault) made the "weirdest" sound and was awful loud
All the engines sounded a bit "ill" with the EBD this year, you really did not hear this on tV that much
The engines were really scraming, and with the off throttle blowing it sounds a bit like a shot gun

At Monaco they are slow enough that you don't need ear pluggs , so you could really hear the different noises different cars make
the Mercedes sounded different from the McLaren etc.

Edited by Bonaventura, 03 January 2012 - 08:36.

[george1981]

I most associate engine noise with onboard shots, you can hear what the driver is doing with the engine on that car rather than just general engine noise from the track. The engine noise from onboard definitely sounds different to other shots, maybe the microphones used are of a lower quality and maybe there is even a doppler affect. Someone posted some youtube videos of Monza taken in the stands and the engine noise from all cars was a lot different to what I'm used to.

[blackonyx4]

On TV, they sound like from some bad PS1 game.

There's a couple of links in my signature form Hungary last year and you can easily spot the difference between cars.

[Madras]

Renault engine ( especially at Lotus-Renault) made the "weirdest" sound and was awful loud
All the engines sounded a bit "ill" with the EBD this year, you really did not hear this on tV that much
The engines were really scraming, and with the off throttle blowing it sounds a bit like a shot gun

At Monaco they are slow enough that you don't need ear pluggs , so you could really hear the different noises different cars make
the Mercedes sounded different from the McLaren etc.

I would disagree. I havent been to Monaco but the acceleration will be just as extreme as at other tracks. Also there are building close to the track which will trap the sound.

[Bloggsworth]

I think that the BBC and others have a roomful of different makes of sewing machine which they switch on to dub in the sounds for the in-car shots. If you want to hear an engine in anger you have to view and listen to YouTube footage taken by anyone other than the official broadcasters... But you would need a really good Hi-Fi system to reproduce the level of sound accurately, if you are in the wrong place it is painful, it is a physical force on the eardrums.

Edited by Bloggsworth, 03 January 2012 - 10:29.

[judd]

At Monaco they are slow enough that you don't need ear pluggs , so you could really hear the different noises different cars make
the Mercedes sounded different from the McLaren etc.

Sorry but the engines are still doing 18,000 rpm at Monaco...

I found the best place ot listen to the EBD was in FP sessions, less cars on track at once made it easier to hear.

Edited by judd, 03 January 2012 - 10:30.

[MadYarpen]

TV in sound in comparison to the reality is terribly, terribly flat. But I don't think much can be done here, especially if you want to hear comentators.

[freya]

Sometimes they put a microphone on the main straight and you hear the sound of cars passing by constantly no matter where the active camera is, so basically the same noise every 2-3 seconds in average. Seriously annoying. Everytime I hear that I wish F1 engines were rather silent.

Only situation in which I enjoy the sound is the onboard views.

[Madras]

The onboard is nothing like the sound you hear at the event though either.

[travbrad]

It is very hard to accurately capture the sound for a loud live event like that. If you ever listen to a bootleg of a concert the sound is very muddled/faded compared to actually being there. To get anywhere close they have to carefully place microphones at the exact right locations (or just record directly from the inputs for electric instruments), which is very hard to do when you are talking about a F1 track that is a few km long, cars going 300kph, and no physical room to shape the sound. Performers in a concert stay in the same area and it's still very difficult to get good sound.

I've heard several drivers say they hear the gearbox sounds very loud when driving too, nothing like the clean engine rev sounds we hear from the onboard shots.

Edited by travbrad, 03 January 2012 - 10:49.

[gramsy1977]

I've been to one and only race in Imola with V10 engines. What struck me most was the downshifting. It was like being hit at the chest. Obviously nothing like that watching from TV.

[KiloWatt]

It is very hard to accurately capture the sound for a loud live event like that. If you ever listen to a bootleg of a concert the sound is very muddled/faded compared to actually being there. To get anywhere close they have to carefully place microphones at the exact right locations (or just record directly from the inputs for electric instruments), which is very hard to do when you are talking about a F1 track that is a few km long, cars going 300kph, and no physical room to shape the sound. Performers in a concert stay in the same area and it's still very difficult to get good sound.

I've heard several drivers say they hear the gearbox sounds very loud when driving too, nothing like the clean engine rev sounds we hear from the onboard shots.

This is very interesting. I wonder what it sounds like, perhaps a whining type of sound. Which drivers have you spoken to, btw?

[glorius&victorius]

Hockenheim.. when Montoya won the race.

BMW's very different sound. More deeper-lower.
Ferrari also very distinct.

The great thing about the noise is that you can also hear well when they get off the throttle. Schumacher was clearly the latest to get off it.

The sound also thumps your chest! that was amazing.

It is the most amazing sound one can ever hear on earth!

(except for a woman ... um.. you know.. )

Edited by glorius&victorius, 03 January 2012 - 11:02.

[Igorr]

i was at aussie gp last year, all the cars were different but the virgin, red bull and the renault were simple beauty.. also on the inlap at the end of the race when they save fuel and turn all the race settings off the sound is deeper than usual.

[krapmeister]

I've been to one and only race in Imola with V10 engines. What struck me most was the downshifting. It was like being hit at the chest. Obviously nothing like that watching from TV.

Hockenheim.. when Montoya won the race.

BMW's very different sound. More deeper-lower.
Ferrari also very distinct.

The great thing about the noise is that you can also hear well when they get off the throttle. Schumacher was clearly the latest to get off it.

The sound also thumps your chest! that was amazing.

It is the most amazing sound one can ever hear on earth!

(except for a woman ... um.. you know.. )

F1 cars are awesome, but unless you have been to see Top Fuel dragsters and/or funny cars then you really have no clue about the sound of a racing engine hitting or thumping your chest (no offence intended btw )

As for the sound on TV - most motorsports sound muted on the box and do no justice to the real experience (drag racing especially imo). Unless they record in something like Dolby 5.1 surround sound or better (I am sure some audiophile will tell me what is better than Dolby 5.1) then I can't see it ever getting anywhere near...

Edited by krapmeister, 03 January 2012 - 11:21.

[flowerdew]

F1 cars are awesome, but unless you have been to see Top Fuel dragsters and/or funny cars then you really have no clue about the sound of a racing engine hitting or thumping your chest (no offence intended btw )

As for the sound on TV - most motorsports sound muted on the box and do no justice to the real experience (drag racing especially imo). Unless they record in something like Dolby 5.1 surround sound or better (I am sure some audiophile will tell me what is better than Dolby 5.1) then I can't see it ever getting anywhere near...

Oh! I'd wondered about that, because I've been to Top Fuel and funny car races but not to F1 yet, and was having trouble imagining anything more intense.

[krapmeister]

Oh! I'd wondered about that, because I've been to Top Fuel and funny car races but not to F1 yet, and was having trouble imagining anything more intense.

Lol anything more and I think your chest caves in and your head explodes...

[Desdirodeabike]

I was at Monza this year and shot a little video from the stands. Second cheapest stand I believe. As long as you get up high, its pretty good. Anyway, it was right at the braking point for Parabolica and you could hear the EBD sound particularly well. And even though its not quite like being there I can say that the sound captured is fairly close to the real thing:

The sound of the EBD from the Red Bull was notably louder and Vettel was on the gas a little earlier than the rest.

[olliek88]

Renault engine ( especially at Lotus-Renault) made the "weirdest" sound and was awful loud
All the engines sounded a bit "ill" with the EBD this year, you really did not hear this on tV that much
The engines were really scraming, and with the off throttle blowing it sounds a bit like a shot gun

At Monaco they are slow enough that you don't need ear pluggs , so you could really hear the different noises different cars make
the Mercedes sounded different from the McLaren etc.

I found them to be louder at Monaco than any other GP and you would be left physically in pain if you didn't wear your ear plugs for any amount of time! i was sat in Tribune T for the Sat and Sunday, standing down at the exit of the old abbey chicane was the only time it was anywhere near as loud as monaco for me.

One of the vids i recorded at Monaco - Doesn't really do justice to the intensity of the noise though.

Edited by olliek88, 03 January 2012 - 11:55.

[KiloWatt]

I was at Monza this year and shot a little video from the stands. Second cheapest stand I believe. As long as you get up high, its pretty good. Anyway, it was right at the braking point for Parabolica and you could hear the EBD sound particularly well. And even though its not quite like being there I can say that the sound captured is fairly close to the real thing:

The sound of the EBD from the Red Bull was notably louder and Vettel was on the gas a little earlier than the rest.

Cool video. The red bull sounds very "voilent". The ferrari sounds very smooth in comparison. I can't quite distinguish the sound from the Merc GP to the McLarens. How does their sound compare?

BTW, anyone that can answer this question is welcome to. I expect pretty similar, but there will probably be some difference.

[Desdirodeabike]

As for the sound on TV - most motorsports sound muted on the box and do no justice to the real experience (drag racing especially imo). Unless they record in something like Dolby 5.1 surround sound or better (I am sure some audiophile will tell me what is better than Dolby 5.1) then I can't see it ever getting anywhere near...

As I am a Hi-Fi freak and also dabble a little with sound boards and mixers, Im pretty sure that what they do is use compressors on the sound. You set the threshold at where you want to cut off the spikes in the sound. They do this to prevent distortion and makes for a more controllable sound for the studio. Thats what it sounds like to me anyway.

You still get the sound but obviously without those lovely high pitches that in real life shake you to the very core.

[Desdirodeabike]

Cool video. The red bull sounds very "voilent". The ferrari sounds very smooth in comparison. I can't quite distinguish the sound from the Merc GP to the McLarens. How does their sound compare?

BTW, anyone that can answer this question is welcome to. I expect pretty similar, but there will probably be some difference.

Cheers. Cant remember the Merc right now. But the McLaren is similar to the RBR, just not as intense.
Im one of the few I know, but I didnt mind the EBD at all. Sounded cool in my ears. I love the sound of technology in the morning. Kinda sad its gone now.

[Bonaventura]

I would disagree. I havent been to Monaco but the acceleration will be just as extreme as at other tracks. Also there are building close to the track which will trap the sound.

Believe me there is a huge difference how loud the engines are compared to the speed
At the straight at Monza you can't stand it near the straights, without ear pluggs, at Monaco it's ok, it's loud but not unbearable
(of course you should always wear ear pluggs)

[wingwalker]

Thing is, every sound that comes out of tv speakers has to be compatible with tv sets and other sounds coming out of the tv. In a case of something as extreme as F1 engine, tons of filtering, compression and processing is needed to keep the volume at a constant rate and make it possible to hear commentators over it. A raw F1 engine sound would kill everything else and would force everyone to adjust volume constantly. But I do wonder couldn't they go to 'let's listen mode' with compression and filtering somewhat tuned down for one lap (at least in FP's).

Edited by wingwalker, 03 January 2012 - 12:22.

[Clatter]

As I am a Hi-Fi freak and also dabble a little with sound boards and mixers, Im pretty sure that what they do is use compressors on the sound. You set the threshold at where you want to cut off the spikes in the sound. They do this to prevent distortion and makes for a more controllable sound for the studio. Thats what it sounds like to me anyway.

You still get the sound but obviously without those lovely high pitches that in real life shake you to the very core.

I've found when I've used my video at tests and races the engine sound is very similar to the broadcast sound, and nowhere close to real life. I've always assumed that there is a cut off to avoid distortion, but was surprised that my cheapo video gave the same sound as broadcast which I thought would be far more capable of capturing the sound.

[KiloWatt]

Cheers. Cant remember the Merc right now. But the McLaren is similar to the RBR, just not as intense.
Im one of the few I know, but I didnt mind the EBD at all. Sounded cool in my ears. I love the sound of technology in the morning. Kinda sad its gone now.

I completely agree and regret that it was banned. Any technology that makes the cars faster will be beautiful to me (audible or visual).

Anyway, what about other similar engined cars, the lotus IIRC from videos also made a raspy sound. The renault, I'm told, made a completely different sound though, very likely on account of it's unique exhaust layout. Did the sauber and torro rosso also share the Ferrari's characteristic smoothness?

[Clatter]

Cheers. Cant remember the Merc right now. But the McLaren is similar to the RBR, just not as intense.
Im one of the few I know, but I didnt mind the EBD at all. Sounded cool in my ears. I love the sound of technology in the morning. Kinda sad its gone now.

What about the days of TC? TV really did not capture how noisy and rough that was in real life.

[cheapracer]

What about the days of TC? TV really did not capture how noisy and rough that was in real life.

Exactly and if it had there would be a lot less nonsense going on about 1994 today.

[ClockworkRacing]

I was at Interlagos last year,and man,that Renault sounded quite rough,very nasty.

The EBD sound looks like a fart or something

I was right in front of the Senna-S,so i could definetely hear the cars changing gears,at first it was painful to stand the noise,but in the second session i didn´t feel anything,guess my ears were used to it.

The nicest sound IMO was the Mercedes engine

It´s an amazing sound,the downshift is really like getting punched in the chest

Edited by ClockworkRacing, 03 January 2012 - 12:57.

[KWSN - DSM]

Nothing about F1 on TV mirror the experience of watching it live.

Sound is hugely different. Cars are not on tracks, they move about, they buck, they bounce, the drivers brake differently, change gears differently, their attacks are much more visible, as is their defensive moves.

You see more of a race on TV, but for the real and full F1 experience, you need to go to a race.

[Bonaventura]

I found them to be louder at Monaco than any other GP and you would be left physically in pain if you didn't wear your ear plugs for any amount of time! i was sat in Tribune T for the Sat and Sunday, standing down at the exit of the old abbey chicane was the only time it was anywhere near as loud as monaco for me.

One of the vids i recorded at Monaco - Doesn't really do justice to the intensity of the noise though.

Maybe it depends where you are on FPs I was at the Noghes they are not very fast,
at Sunday I was near the Tobaco corner there it was a bit louder
http://img546.images...naco2011121.jpg
http://img6.imagesha...naco2011122.jpg
http://img541.images...naco2011162.jpg

Silverstone was ok, too, I sat at Stowe, it wasn't overly loud

but regardless where you are the sound is live very different from what you hear at TV.
If you just hear the F1 engines firing up before the GPs it's a thrilling sound

Edited by Bonaventura, 03 January 2012 - 13:03.

[valachus]

The first (maybe only?) televised race in which I could hear the EBD noise the commentators kept talking about was Suzuka. At first I thought the engines were failing at one particular corner, it sounded awful. I think it's good to know what they really sound like, but I could definitely understand a TV director deciding that noise added nothing to the viewing experience.

I thought I heard something about FOM having less to do with direction in Suzuka than most other races, but I didn't pay a lot of attention. Was that the case?

I bet it was because this...

I think that the BBC and others have a roomful of different makes of sewing machine which they switch on to dub in the sounds for the in-car shots.

..is exactly what I too think it happened. The EBD was digitally filtered out of the TV sound feed throughout the season (there are enough amateur clips in this thread to see that the sound was quite distinct and easy to capture no matter what the video and sound recording equipment) so that the commentators did not have to explain to the public that *that* was the sound of the drivers taking their foot off the throttle and leaving the car to burn fuel for downforce in fly-by-wire mode.

[lambylamby]

I thought the EBD sounded really quite cool, the sound I would compare it to would be the star wars pod racers about 1 minute in, like a weird backfiring. I was at the Nürburgring stage this year, and I for one would miss the sound. I liked it when they approached a corner and you could really hear the I think it was the Team Lotus ones misfiring as well as Group Lotus ones. I think the louder cars were Merc,but it was vaguely noticeable. I thought the sound was quite aggressive.

EDIT - When I say misfiring, thats the only way I can describe it.

Edited by lambylamby, 03 January 2012 - 13:37.

[ClockworkRacing]

Nothing about F1 on TV mirror the experience of watching it live.

Sound is hugely different. Cars are not on tracks, they move about, they buck, they bounce, the drivers brake differently, change gears differently, their attacks are much more visible, as is their defensive moves.

You see more of a race on TV, but for the real and full F1 experience, you need to go to a race.

Exactly,every driver has a tiny different approach to the corners and the cars bounce around all the time

[olliek88]

Nothing about F1 on TV mirror the experience of watching it live.

Sound is hugely different. Cars are not on tracks, they move about, they buck, they bounce, the drivers brake differently, change gears differently, their attacks are much more visible, as is their defensive moves.

You see more of a race on TV, but for the real and full F1 experience, you need to go to a race.

That was one of the first things i noticed the first time i went to Silverstone, i went to watch at the exit of bridge and there was about 22 different lines through bridge and into priory, some went very tight on the exit of bridge to get the best entry into priory whereas others let the car run out wide on the exit of bridge to gain more speed there but then compromised the entry into priory, was very interesting.

[Currahee]

I was at Belgium this year and the loudest/shrillest noise came from the Renaults.

You don't get anything like that noise on the TV.

Is there a better sound than an F1 car going at full chat in the distance getting closer and closer?

[rage2]

I've heard several drivers say they hear the gearbox sounds very loud when driving too, nothing like the clean engine rev sounds we hear from the onboard shots.

This is very interesting. I wonder what it sounds like, perhaps a whining type of sound. Which drivers have you spoken to, btw?

I remember hearing the Audi drivers explain just how loud the gearbox actually is when they first drove the TDi le mans car!

I've driven a couple of stripped track cars with race boxes, and they are obscenely loud. I remember watching this video years ago which came close to what it sounds like.



You can hear as the car gets to higher speeds/gears, the gearbox sound completely muffles the engine and wind noise.

[pingu666]

gearbox noise is from the straightcut gears, typicaly , roadcars have helical? gears which are way quieter.

and id guess at amature footage doesnt have a deadcat on the mic, while tv stuff does. stuff ive recorded at racetracks sounds more acurate than tv, and that was with a a now 6 year old average superzoom camera xD. which was bad for recording voices and normal use.

noisey racecar? really good

[wingwalker]

That was one of the first things i noticed the first time i went to Silverstone, i went to watch at the exit of bridge and there was about 22 different lines through bridge and into priory, some went very tight on the exit of bridge to get the best entry into priory whereas others let the car run out wide on the exit of bridge to gain more speed there but then compromised the entry into priory, was very interesting.

This kills me on tv. Camera is following one car zooming in out constantly 95% of the time, even when two cars are battling it out. This makes most of the slides / various lines impossible to see on the tv. Also, camera rarely stays onboard for a full lap anymore, even in FP's which are pretty much made for this.

Edited by wingwalker, 03 January 2012 - 18:44.

[midgrid]

Attending a race or test session is worth it for the sound alone. The subtle differences in engine sounds which aren't conveyed via TV coverage, the explosion (no exaggeration) of each gear change, the squeal of locking brakes, twenty or so drivers revving their engines in anticipation of the start...the list goes on.

I can only imagine what it was like to hear a 1989-1995 era Ferrari V12, a Matra, or a BRM V16/H16 in period.

[rayyu882]

I have been to a few F1 races, and what's coming from a TV can't come close at all in sound compare to watching on location.

I still remember the first F1 race that I been to, 2000 Canadian GP (3.0L v10, no traction control). Friday practice session, I was on the bridge right before turn 8/9, looking down when cars coming from that straight and braking for turn 8, watching cars downshift from 6th gear to 2nd for turn 8, that sound was like there were 4 grenades exploded right in front of you, and the sound wave from the downshifts hitting your chest were so strong and unforgettable, til this day I still remember how incredible it was.

Another one I remember so clearly was 2002 US GP, I was at turn 1, watching 20 F1 cars each with 800+hp, 19k+ rpm V10 engines screaming down at turn 1 was like you are in the middle of a big thunderstorms. Also one of the most impressive thing to see as an F1 fan.

Edited by rayyu882, 03 January 2012 - 20:30.

[stairpotato]

Find a seat in a covered stand at Silverstone.....and wait for the cars to pile past. It's a sound so ear shatteringly loud that it vibrates your body and can actually make you feel a little ill. It's THAT loud.

Amazing.

Nothing prepares you for how good F1 cars sound in real life.

[Madras]

Like others in this thread I remember the downshifts hitting my chest. I went to the British GP from 97 to 99 so that was the V10 days. Also on the first lap when all the cars come past one after another the sound is just enormous.

Edited by Madras, 03 January 2012 - 21:46.

[Clatter]

Find a seat in a covered stand at Silverstone.....and wait for the cars to pile past. It's a sound so ear shatteringly loud that it vibrates your body and can actually make you feel a little ill. It's THAT loud.

Amazing.

Nothing prepares you for how good F1 cars sound in real life.

Before the circuit changes standing next to the fence between Bridge and Abbey was epic. Less than 10 feet from the cars. Now that was really loud.