I open this new thread since several other have included comments on this, going OT from their original title.
Here are the formulas given for Shell blends of the 30s.
Source is 'Appunti di storia', Shell Italia, 1957, quoted in 'Alfa Romeo Model 8C2300' by Angela Cherrett, Veloce publishing, 1992.
Shell Dynamin:
Ethyl alcohol 20%
Benzol 30%
Petrol 49%
Castor Oil 1% (later substituted by 'Shell Super heavy' containing 90% castor and 10% mineral oil)
Octane rating 95-100
Shell Dynamin for track and circuit races
Ethyl alcohol 44%
Methyl alcohol 44%
Shell aviation petrol 12 %
Castor oil 1kg / 100 kg mixture
Octane rating 120-125
There were several Dynamin mixtures designed with letters, such as 'Dynamin', 'Dynamin A' and 'Dynamin L', possibly more. The formulae given above are very different from each other, and no name is given.
The data for setting the carburettors of 8C2300s list other blends from other companies. Under 'Racing and Special models', we find:
Dynamin and Elcosina Aviazione (same setting)
Dynamin L (Shell)
Dynamin A (Shell)
Z.Z. (Standard)
2 Bis (Standard)
3 Bis (Standard)
4 Bis(Standard) and Elcosina SC (same setting)
I know that sports cars racing outside Italy, when the fuel was provided by the organizers (for instance Spa 24h) had engines detuned with lower compression ratios.
I might have more on this... :yawn:
For the 1935 german GP, fuel used by the Alfa P3s was Dynamin A (Shell), oil Aeroshell heavy, spark plugs R17s, Weber carb settings "diffusori 31, getti 255, compensatori 140" (from Classic and Sports Cars, may 1989, p122).
Racing fuels in the 1930s and 1940s
Started by
Patrick Italiano
, Feb 14 2001 12:39
2 replies to this topic
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#2
David M. Kane
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- 5,402 posts
- Joined: December 00
Member
Posted 14 February 2001 - 13:23
Can you imagine what these must have smelt like? The atmosphere at those races must have been magic.
When I first started going to races in the late '50s there
was still a whiff of the good ole days in the air. Now,
unfortunately, everything is so sterile.
Bring back the metal, the big bang and smells...
When I first started going to races in the late '50s there
was still a whiff of the good ole days in the air. Now,
unfortunately, everything is so sterile.
Bring back the metal, the big bang and smells...
#3
Patrick Italiano
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- 412 posts
- Joined: December 00
Member
Posted 14 February 2001 - 13:46
About fuel in the 40s, here is a rough translation from italian (forgive me errors and typos- I have no time to check it now) I made time ago for my friend writing an article on the 158s.
Michael Müller has doubts about the blending of normal water with methanol - see his post in the Auto Union photos thread.
Giampaolo Garcea
The secret Additive
Milan, may 1983
From 'La mia Alfa', p.115
There was once in Portello an Experience Service ; we are in the first post war years, for some years, my former Aviation Experience Service absorbed what remained of the car- and truck- services, and reconverted to cars and trucks all what had been aircraft related. Satta is chief of the DIPRE, Direction for projects and experiences. Sirtori, who had been chief of the fuel and oil laboratory, left Alfa for a big petrol refinery ; but I managed to convince Satta and the directors board : stuck to Alfa as he is, Sirtori will continue (as a consultant retributed with a pipe of tobacco) seconding us with all his knowledge about lubricants, fuels, combustion. We are altogether one hundred people at the Experience Service, dedicating ourselves to old and new gas and diesel engines, car-, bus- and truck- chassis, as well as trolleybusses and electric groups. That isn't enough : for a couple of years the racing activity resumed : the pre-war 158s, hidden under wood pieces in Achille Castoldi's estate in Abbiategrosso, escaped bombing and germans' attempts to requisition ; they now are back racing and winning in Grand Prix races for two years. Steadily and for free does Shell provides to Portello or on race tracks in Italy or abroad, all the methanol we need : I had the telegram idea at the end of the first victorious race ; from then, after every win, I complete a telegram which is sent by Mr. Cassani ; the day after, all newpapers print on half a page the acknowledgement telegram from Alfa Romeo to Shell for the collaboration.
Everything went well during the first two years. At the beginning of the third season appears suddenly a trouble : after a few hours of faultless test run, on the benchor in the car, the engine stops and remains as seized. Indeed, the blower seizes because there's a kind of white cement depositating between the rotors and the housing. Both rotors and housing made from light alloy are identcal to those used the previous years : it should be Shell's fault. Shell claims her innocence showing the detailed analyses of the basic methanol and castor oil. During several days, we are uselessly searching a solution to this trouble. The last day before the racing material has to leave, around midnight, we are still working, Sandro and I, alone in the empty racing deaprtment. In an elektron half shell lying like a bowl, Sandro poured some methanol. He's there bent over the shell watching the rapid formation of little bubbles, which arise from some place in the bottom to the surface of the liquid.
In his mind, a hypothesis is growing : : the methanol provided by Shell is this year very pure, more than the previous years. The percentage of water, for instance, is almost zero. Could the water have an inhibiting function towards the chimical reaction ? The shell is then filled with methanol polluted with some water : the bubbles don't arise anymore. At the first hour of the day after, an engine is running on the bench with polluted methanol : it doesn't seize.
From that day, at every Grand Prix, Alfa comes with a precious bottle of secret additive. Nobody knows it actually contains running water from a Milan's tap.
Decades go. Arabs realize that they can sell their petrol at high prices ; alcool is foreseen as fuel. In march 1975, Sirtori takes part to a congress about alcool in Detroit. As soon as he landed at Malpensa (Milan's airport), he comes to my office in Arese, while it's already late in the evening. He's very tired, but wants to summarise what has been said and discussed. He's at the door ready to leave, comes back with a smile, more relaxed : " I didnt' say you about the applauses… " Somebody in Detroit had thoughts about the risk of corrsion. Sirtori began to speak of the story with the 158, the methanol seizing the blower. When he finished his telling with the secret additive's bottle, a large laugh turned in a long applause. He was very proud of this applause, not only for himself, but also for Alfa.
Michael Müller has doubts about the blending of normal water with methanol - see his post in the Auto Union photos thread.
Giampaolo Garcea
The secret Additive
Milan, may 1983
From 'La mia Alfa', p.115
There was once in Portello an Experience Service ; we are in the first post war years, for some years, my former Aviation Experience Service absorbed what remained of the car- and truck- services, and reconverted to cars and trucks all what had been aircraft related. Satta is chief of the DIPRE, Direction for projects and experiences. Sirtori, who had been chief of the fuel and oil laboratory, left Alfa for a big petrol refinery ; but I managed to convince Satta and the directors board : stuck to Alfa as he is, Sirtori will continue (as a consultant retributed with a pipe of tobacco) seconding us with all his knowledge about lubricants, fuels, combustion. We are altogether one hundred people at the Experience Service, dedicating ourselves to old and new gas and diesel engines, car-, bus- and truck- chassis, as well as trolleybusses and electric groups. That isn't enough : for a couple of years the racing activity resumed : the pre-war 158s, hidden under wood pieces in Achille Castoldi's estate in Abbiategrosso, escaped bombing and germans' attempts to requisition ; they now are back racing and winning in Grand Prix races for two years. Steadily and for free does Shell provides to Portello or on race tracks in Italy or abroad, all the methanol we need : I had the telegram idea at the end of the first victorious race ; from then, after every win, I complete a telegram which is sent by Mr. Cassani ; the day after, all newpapers print on half a page the acknowledgement telegram from Alfa Romeo to Shell for the collaboration.
Everything went well during the first two years. At the beginning of the third season appears suddenly a trouble : after a few hours of faultless test run, on the benchor in the car, the engine stops and remains as seized. Indeed, the blower seizes because there's a kind of white cement depositating between the rotors and the housing. Both rotors and housing made from light alloy are identcal to those used the previous years : it should be Shell's fault. Shell claims her innocence showing the detailed analyses of the basic methanol and castor oil. During several days, we are uselessly searching a solution to this trouble. The last day before the racing material has to leave, around midnight, we are still working, Sandro and I, alone in the empty racing deaprtment. In an elektron half shell lying like a bowl, Sandro poured some methanol. He's there bent over the shell watching the rapid formation of little bubbles, which arise from some place in the bottom to the surface of the liquid.
In his mind, a hypothesis is growing : : the methanol provided by Shell is this year very pure, more than the previous years. The percentage of water, for instance, is almost zero. Could the water have an inhibiting function towards the chimical reaction ? The shell is then filled with methanol polluted with some water : the bubbles don't arise anymore. At the first hour of the day after, an engine is running on the bench with polluted methanol : it doesn't seize.
From that day, at every Grand Prix, Alfa comes with a precious bottle of secret additive. Nobody knows it actually contains running water from a Milan's tap.
Decades go. Arabs realize that they can sell their petrol at high prices ; alcool is foreseen as fuel. In march 1975, Sirtori takes part to a congress about alcool in Detroit. As soon as he landed at Malpensa (Milan's airport), he comes to my office in Arese, while it's already late in the evening. He's very tired, but wants to summarise what has been said and discussed. He's at the door ready to leave, comes back with a smile, more relaxed : " I didnt' say you about the applauses… " Somebody in Detroit had thoughts about the risk of corrsion. Sirtori began to speak of the story with the 158, the methanol seizing the blower. When he finished his telling with the secret additive's bottle, a large laugh turned in a long applause. He was very proud of this applause, not only for himself, but also for Alfa.
