130 replies to this topic

[rolf123]

So I just read that motorsport was an Olympic demo event back in 1900!!

Why not make karting an Olympic event?

It has nothing to do with scheduling as the major motorsports can keep one weekend free every four years.

You might say that people wouldn't agree on the class of car but nearly everyone in motorsports agrees that karting is the most raw and basic form of motorsport that there is.

It's easy to hold an event too - simply close off a few streets, much easier than doing that for cycling or the marathon.

I would like to see it done in such a way that we see the top pros competing and not getting whipped by some lightweight 10-year old. Maybe a minimum weight or use of ballast.

The FiA ought to be lobbying for this.

[freya]

Think the main reason is that olympics focuses mainly on human body, and most people don't consider motorsport to be a "sport" in the natural way. That could also be true because in many motorsport branches, unlike F1, being fit doesn't mean much. Look at Nascar for instance.

[Garagiste]

Drive a kart at 95% for an hour and tell me that the human body has no relevance! Last time I did it my arms and legs were like jelly, only when I got out did I realise I'd been running on adrenaline only for the last 30 laps.

[jrg19]

Think the main reason is that olympics focuses mainly on human body, and most people don't consider motorsport to be a "sport" in the natural way. That could also be true because in many motorsport branches, unlike F1, being fit doesn't mean much. Look at Nascar for instance.

A lot of my "naive" friends argue that F1/motorsports do not count.

[Programmer]

Drive a kart at 95% for an hour and tell me that the human body has no relevance! Last time I did it my arms and legs were like jelly, only when I got out did I realise I'd been running on adrenaline only for the last 30 laps.

There's no doubt that driving a race car is physically demanding, but regardless the primary means of locomotion is a noisy, smelly engine. I just don't see how this fits in with the focus on athletics at the Olympics. The driver guides the car, but it's expending a lot more energy than the driver does. Other sports use some pretty complex equipment (skiing, bobsledding, kayaking, etc) but none of them are actively powered by anything but the athlete. Biathalon at the winter olympics uses a gun though - I always thought that was a strange fit for the olympics.

Personally, I'd love to see karting at the Olympics though!

[Amphicar]

Last month the FIA announced that it had been accepted as a member of the IOC (International Olympic Committee): http://www.fia.com/e...s/fia-ioc1.aspx. However, according to the FIA website "The Olympic Charter specifically bans sports with an element of motorization from eligibility."

[mgs315]

Archery? Shotgun? Still Olympic.

[MinT]

If you read the sky/bbc thread - its something to do with motorsports only being for rich kids or something;)

[johnmhinds]

I'm pretty sure they had chariot racing at the "Ancient Olympics" as well.

The various olympic cycling events already fill that niche pretty well though, and Karts are seen by the public more as something you do for a works party more than them being a real sport...

[Garagiste]

...The driver guides the car, but it's expending a lot more energy than the driver does.

As do the horses in the equestiran events. They are about the skill of the rider, so not really so different to driving?
Personally I think we missed a trick by not introducing Darts.

[Youichi]

Other sports use some pretty complex equipment (skiing, bobsledding, kayaking, etc) but none of them are actively powered by anything but the athlete.

How about sailing, most of the energy is not comming from the athlete ?

[johnmhinds]

As do the horses in the equestiran events. They are about the skill of the rider, so not really so different to driving?
Personally I think we missed a trick by not introducing Darts.

The have lawn darts.


Always confused me that they don't score points for accuracy in the javelin events though.
No real point in being the hunter who can throw the furthest if you can't hit **** with your spear.

Edited by johnmhinds, 02 February 2012 - 19:12.

[Clatter]

The have lawn darts.


Always confused me that they don't score points for accuracy in the javelin events though.
No real point in being the hunter who can throw the furthest if you can't hit **** with your spear.

Always wondered what the point is about being able to throw a plate the furthest as well.

[stanga]

The have lawn darts.


Always confused me that they don't score points for accuracy in the javelin events though.
No real point in being the hunter who can throw the furthest if you can't hit **** with your spear.

The javelin was a ranged weapon in ancient times and you chucked it at a massed body of men. Like shooting fish in a very distant barrel if you were good enough!

[Vitesse2]

Last month the FIA announced that it had been accepted as a member of the IOC (International Olympic Committee): http://www.fia.com/e...s/fia-ioc1.aspx. However, according to the FIA website "The Olympic Charter specifically bans sports with an element of motorization from eligibility."

Nice bit of FIA historical rewriting there, conveniently ignoring the fact that in 1936 there was an Olympic Rally in Germany which, although not an official event, was promoted as though it was and for which Olympic medals were awarded. We knocked this subject around on TNF a while ago, including the 1900 Games, which were really nothing more than a sideshow for the Paris Exhibition:

http://forums.autosp...amp;hl=olympics

[fieraku]

Because when one thinks of Olympians,human athletic excellence comes to mind plus it would look dumb as hell. Go karting belongs in X-Games not the Olympics!

[Clatter]

Nice bit of FIA historical rewriting there, conveniently ignoring the fact that in 1936 there was an Olympic Rally in Germany which, although not an official event, was promoted as though it was and for which Olympic medals were awarded. We knocked this subject around on TNF a while ago, including the 1900 Games, which were really nothing more than a sideshow for the Paris Exhibition:

http://forums.autosp...amp;hl=olympics

Has the charter been rewritten\added to since the then?

Afterall they are talking about the current Olympics and not past event's, although they do cover that as well

4. Has Motorsport ever been at the Olympics?
It was a demonstration sport in the Paris Olympics in1900, while in London, in 1908, there were three motorboat racing events. Since then motorsports have not featured in the Olympic Games.

Edited by Clatter, 02 February 2012 - 19:35.

[fieraku]

Always wondered what the point is about being able to throw a plate the furthest as well.

And what's the point of hitting a furry ball back and forth over a net or bouncing a ball and shooting it into a basket,really.

Discus throw is as old as dirt mate.

[Clatter]

And what's the point of hitting a furry ball back and forth over a net or bouncing a ball and shooting it into a basket,really.

Discus throw is as old as dirt mate.

Didn't ask how old it was, just wondered what the point of it is.

[fieraku]

Didn't ask how old it was, just wondered what the point of it is.

Physical excellence? Discus throwing combines power/agility/strength/balance thus it's one of the Iconic Olympic sports.

Then money entered sports and it decided what is popular and "more to the point"!

[SPBHM]

Because when one thinks of Olympians,human athletic excellence comes to mind plus it would look dumb as hell. Go karting belongs in X-Games not the Olympics!

??

[CSquared]

I imagine the reasons are probably more political than "sporting." I find it hard to believe you could come up with a cogent sporting argument against racing that wouldn't also exclude curling, air rifle shooting, horse riding, downhill skiing, or luge.

The first time I heard about Bernie's medals idea was when the Spanish GP went to Barcelona in 1991, the year before the Olympics were there. I think he wanted to do medals for the 1992 Spanish GP and tie it into the Olympics.

[fieraku]

??

History. Men rode horses in war.

Edited by fieraku, 02 February 2012 - 20:15.

[Garagiste]

There have been a few wars that motor vehicles have been involved with - if that's the criterion for eligability perhaps we should have a Toyota Hilux race?

[fieraku]

I imagine the reasons are probably more political than "sporting." I find it hard to believe you could come up with a cogent sporting argument against racing that wouldn't also exclude curling, air rifle shooting, horse riding, downhill skiing, or luge.

The first time I heard about Bernie's medals idea was when the Spanish GP went to Barcelona in 1991, the year before the Olympics were there. I think he wanted to do medals for the 1992 Spanish GP and tie it into the Olympics.

Agree,personally I don't think of half the sports as Olympic sports.

[Koen]

I was going to say that karting can't be an olympic sport from the same reason as horse riding but yeah, horse riding is actually an olympic sport. This makes all arguments invalid.

[CSquared]

History. Men rode horses in war.

Because when one thinks of Olympians, human athletic excellence comes to mind. And ancient warfare. And air rifles. And curling. Anything else?

[SonnyViceR]

hat could also be true because in many motorsport branches, unlike F1, being fit doesn't mean much. Look at Nascar for instance.

I'm sorry but that's just rubbish

[F1ultimate]

??

The only mammal exhausted in that photo is the horse.

[August]

The have lawn darts.


Always confused me that they don't score points for accuracy in the javelin events though.
No real point in being the hunter who can throw the furthest if you can't hit **** with your spear.

Did you select Tero Pitkämäki's pic purposefully?

But, at Stockholm athletics meeting, there is after the normal competition, another exhibition competition where they try to throw to a mark at 70 metres. I've heard an anecdote that 70 metres is selected so that it suits for Swedes, they just have to throw with full power to the middle of sector, for others it's like darts.

[fieraku]

Because when one thinks of Olympians, human athletic excellence comes to mind. And ancient warfare. And air rifles. And curling. Anything else?

Yes! How do you test a kart for PEDs?

[Amphicar]

Nice bit of FIA historical rewriting there, conveniently ignoring the fact that in 1936 there was an Olympic Rally in Germany which, although not an official event, was promoted as though it was and for which Olympic medals were awarded. We knocked this subject around on TNF a while ago, including the 1900 Games, which were really nothing more than a sideshow for the Paris Exhibition:

http://forums.autosp...amp;hl=olympics

Not so much the FIA doing the historical rewriting as the IOC - it is their charter after all: http://www.olympic.o..._charter_en.pdf

Mind you, I haven't found where in the Charter mechanised sports are prohibited. However, even if they aren't, a problem that remains is the limitation of the Summer Olympics to no more than 28 sports, which must include 25 drawn from the following "core": athletics; rowing; badminton; baseball; basketball; boxing; canoeing; cycling; equestrianism; fencing; association football; gymnastics; weightlifting; handball; hockey; judo; wrestling; swimming; modern pentathlon; softball, taekwondo; tennis; table tennis; shooting; archery, triathlon; sailing; and volleyball.

There seems to be no such numerical limitation for the Winter Olympics and the list of core sports is much shorter: biathlon; bobsleigh & toboggan; curling; ice hockey; luge; skating; and skiing. So perhaps we should make a case for including ice racing in the next Winter Olympics. Who knows, Alain Prost might win an Olympic gold medal to go with his four World Championships!

[Markn93]

http://www.google.co...t:429,r:15,s:69

how is this a sport and karting not? plus most of them crash/fall over at the start

[jonpollak]

Sightly off topic but...
Can anyone name a sport where men,women and the disabled compete together on equal ground?
Jp

[Skinnyguy]

Chess.

[August]

Sightly off topic but...
Can anyone name a sport where men,women and the disabled compete together on equal ground?
Jp

Chess, poker, backgammon, etc.

[Clatter]

Sightly off topic but...
Can anyone name a sport where men,women and the disabled compete together on equal ground?
Jp

I can think of sports where men and women can compete equally, and some disabled people could as well, but disabilities cover so many different things that you could never find a sport that would allow all to compete equally. Even the disabled recognise that they cannot all compete equally.

[jonpollak]

Board games and gambling are NOT sport.

No, the answer is Motor Racing.
Jp

[Amphicar]

Sightly off topic but...
Can anyone name a sport where men,women and the disabled compete together on equal ground?
Jp

I'd say motor racing - there are plenty of examples of women racing drivers (Lella Lombardi, Divina Galica, Danica Patrick for example) and quite a few successful drivers who raced with quite severe disabilities (Archie Scott Brown, Alessandro Nannini, Alex Zanardi to name but three)>

[Clatter]

Board games and gambling are NOT sport.

No, the answer is Motor Racing.
Jp

Don't think the blind will be very competitive.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Because we have a world championship for karting. And for most other forms of motor racing. And like a lot of other high profile sports, the Olympics would be a step down. Let the Olympics have their once-every-four-years circle jerk, race fans have something to watch 10 months a year.

[Skinnyguy]

Board games and gambling are NOT sport.

No, the answer is Motor Racing.

Chess IS a sport.

[August]

Board games and gambling are NOT sport.

No, the answer is Motor Racing.
Jp

I'd say a quite typical modern definition of a sport is something like "A sport is an activity to which competing against other people essentially belongs, and competitors' capabilities have an effect on result". Singing isn't a sport despite competitions, because competing isn't essential for singing. Backgammon is a sport because competition belongs to that game, and in long run, players' skills effect on result. Car driving itself isn't a sport but motor racing is a sport because you race against each other and skills have an effect. And non-competitional running or swimming aren't a sport, they are physical exercise.

[Rob]

They used to dish out medals for things like Town Planning and Poetry.

[jonpollak]

Amphicar knew the answer.... No surprise there.

Chess IS a sport.

Nope....
Read the experts debate

Jp

[trogggy]

Amphicar knew the answer.... No surprise there.


Nope....
Read the experts debate

Jp

Experts?

[Skinnyguy]

Nope....
Read the experts debate

Chess is a sport.

Chess is a recognized sport by the International Olympic Committee[3] with FIDE being the recognized International Sports Federation for chess since June 1999.[3][4][5][6] As a member of the International Olympic Committee...

http://en.wikipedia....ecognised_sport

[jonpollak]

Ok.. Internet punters then.

Jp

[Longtimefan]

it should be, Karting would be a great addition!

[trogggy]

it should be, Karting would be a great addition!

As a new sport it has no chance. How many countries would realistically take part?
It wouldn't attract top drivers, because (no disrespect to karters) top drivers are not in karting - they pass through it. So why would the Olympics want it?