76 replies to this topic

[Rob Ryder]

I wonder if anyone can help me with results for Thoroughbred Grand Prix races. The results for 1999 onwards are covered on the official TGP site, but there is nothing for the 1995, 1996, 1997 and 1998 seasons.

I have drawn a blank with web search engines, so if anyone could either inform me of a site carrying the results, post the results or E-mail them to me I would be very grateful.

I also have a question relating to TGP and BRM.

I seem to remember seeing a picture of a BRM P180 that was captioned 'Zandvoort Thoroughbred Grand Prix', but like an idiot I have forgotten the URL. Did the P180 actually race in TGP? If so does anyone know who was driving and what has happened to it since then?

Thanks

Rob

[FLB]

On this page, you will find some results (incomplete) from the 1995 TGP sesaon onwards:

http://www.cmail.cz/inneman/tgp.htm

As for the BRM, I assume you're referring to this page:

http://www.ritzsite....70s/1970_73.htm

[p][Edited by FLB on 02-17-2001]

[David McKinney]

I think the P180 you have in mind is 02, raced in 1993 and 1994 by John Beasley and 1998/99 by Peter Hannen. Last I heard (a couple of months ago) it was for sale (I can track it down further if you wish)
As far as I know the other P180, 01, remains part of the Donington Collection

[Rob Ryder]

FLB
Thanks for the INNEMAN site, I'll check it out. The picture on the Ritz site was the one I remember, and reading the caption correctly it says the P180 did NOT take part in the Thoroughbred race. That is what memory does for you!

David
Any further information on the P180 would be most welcome as the BRM team and their cars are of great interest to me. The P180 is for sale? If I only had the money!!

[Rob Ryder]

I have checked out the site provided by FLB but the results for the following races are not listed

1995 Donington Park (1)
1995 Nurburgring
1995 Brands Hatch
1995 Donington Park (2)

1996 Donington Park (1)
1996 Magny-Cours
1996 Anderstorp
1996 Nurburgring
1996 Donington Park (2)

1997 Donington Park
1997 Nurburgring

Can anyone help??

[RaymondMays]

Sorry for being lazy, but what is the URL for the official TGP site? I saw the TGP race at Donnington in 1999, and it was fantastic.

I think I also read in Autosport a few weeks ago, that they were thinking of having the Silverstone race after the BGP, which is great, because I've just got my BGP tickets.

As for my home town team, there's a fairly new BRM website at http://members.madas...gkinson/brm.htm and on the links page, there is a link to Hall & Fowlers, which would be a good place to start, if you had a spare £100,000 and wanted to buy a BRM.

[Rob Ryder]

RaymondMays?

Now where have I heard that name before?

The URL for the official Thoroughbred site is...

http://www.tgp-f1.com

Rob

[Allen Brown]

Rob

Perhaps we could swap a few results sheets. From the ones you mention I have the following official sheets:

1995 Donington Park (1) - Entry list only
1995 Nurburgring - Combined practice times and results
1995 Brands Hatch - Everything
1995 Donington Park (2) - Everything

1996 Donington Park (1) - Nothing
1996 Magny-Cours - Results only
1996 Anderstorp - Nothing
1996 Nurburgring - Nothing
1996 Donington Park (2) - Everything except grid positions

1997 Donington Park - Entry list and practice times
1997 Nurburgring - Nothing

I have also been trying to get hold of all the results for the 'non-championship' races over this period (Thruxton 17 April 1995, Magny Cours 04 June 1995, Zandvoort 20 August 1995, Dijon 24 September 1995, Jyllandsring 15 June 1997 and Kyalami 6 December 1998) and the pre-95 HSCC Historic F1 races (which go back to 1982). Do you have anything on those races?

How would you like to go about this? I could start scanning things but a bundle of photocopies might be more straightforward.

Allen

[MattFoster]

Do they televise these races? I would love to see these glorious machines in action.

[Rob Ryder]

Matt

The races are not televised here in the U.K., and I don't think anywhere else in the world.

The races do not even get good coverage in the motor sport press. 'Autosport' generally list only the first three finishers and is lucky if it gives two paragraphs to the race report! I cannot understand this because it is a full FIA championship and should get better coverage!

As an aside, I attended my first two TGP meetings last year and I am sorry that it took me so long to recognise this series. I had forgotten how good a grid full of Cossies can sound. Now if only someone would bring a couple Matra MS120's, two Ferrari 312/B1's and a few BRM P160's out retirement these races would be paradise.

Rob[p][Edited by Rob Ryder on 02-21-2001]

[Rainer Nyberg]

One of the racers in the series is featured here:
http://www.shadowpromotions.co.uk/
It is a 1979 Shadow DN9-2B.




Rainer

[Gary C]

Hey guys, you DO know that the Thoroughbreds will be one of the supporting races at the British Grand Prix this year?

[Rob Ryder]

Gary

Surely you mean that the Grand Prix is supporting the Thoroughbred race

Rob

[MattSmith]

Originally posted by Rob Ryder
Gary

Surely you mean that the Grand Prix is supporting the Thoroughbred race

I went to the first BTCC meeting last season just to see the TGP race.

Well worth it.

[Gary C]

Ha! Thank you Rob! My mistake, silly me!!

[Rob Ryder]

I am bringing this thread back to the top in the hope that some of the new members will be able to help me with the missing info. This project has been dormant since 2001 , so it is about time I made an effort to complete it.

I know that it is I a long list, but any help would be much appreciated .
Rob

What info is missing?

1995
17/04/95 Thruxton - Qualifying & Results (Non-Championship)
21/05/95 Donington - Qualifying & Results
04/06/95 Magny-Cours - Qualifying & Results (Non-Championship)
25/06/95 Nurburgring - Qualifying & Results
09/07/95 Brands Hatch - Qualifying & Results
20/08/95 Zandvoort - Qualifying & Results (Non-Championship)
03/09/95 Donington Park - Qualifying & Results
24/09/95 Dijon-Prenois - Qualifying & Results (Non-Championship)
01/10/95 Brno - Qualifying & Results

1996
??/??/96 Magny-Cours - Date, Qualifying & Results
??/??/96 Anderstorp - Date, Qualifying & Results
?/??/96 Nurburgring - Date, Qualifying & Results
29/09/96 Brno - Qualifying

1997
05/05/97 Silverstone - Qualifying
18/05/97 Monza - Qualifying
01/06/97 Donington Park - Qualifying & Results
16/06/97 Jyllandsring - Qualifying & Results (Non-Championship)
13/07/97 Nurburgring (1) - Qualifying & Results
??/??/97 Zolder - Date
??/??/97 Nurburgring (2) - Date, Qualifying & Results
14/09/97 Brno - Qualifying
19/10/97 Brands Hatch - Qualifying & Results

1998
12/04/98 Paul Ricard - Qualifying
17/05/98 Monza - Qualifying
21/06/98 Most - Qualifying
05/07/98 Brands Hatch - Qualifying
12/07/98 Nurburgring (1) - Qualifying
09/08/98 Nurburgring (2) - Qualifying
06/09/98 Donington Park - Qualifying
13/09/98 Spa - Qualifying
25/09/98 Brands Hatch - Qualifying
04/12/98 Kyalami - Qualifying (Non-Championship)

2001
23/09/01 Dijon-Prenois - Qualifying & Results

2002
14/04/02 Jarama - Qualifying
23/06/02 A1-Ring - Qualifying
31/08/02 Magny-Cours - Qualifying

[conjohn]

Originally posted by Rob Ryder

1996
??/??/96 Anderstorp - Date, Qualifying & Results

I can only give you the date - June 9th...

I was there, camera-less, but I can't remember who won - historic racing isn't my thing; I spent most of my time in the paddock.

For what it's worth, here is the entry list as given in the program (with my comments at the end).

No  Entrant				Driver				  Country	  Car 

==  =======				======				  =======	  ===

 2  Errueuno			   Ermanio Ronchi		  Italy		Brabham BT49

 6  Steve Hitchins		 Steve Hitchins		  England	  Lotus 78

 7  Classic Team Lotus	 Jaquin Folch			Spain		Lotus 87

 9  Michael Schryver	   Michael Schryver		England	  Lotus 72 [3] (Reine Wisell)

12  Willcox Cooper Ass.	Graham Willcox		  England	  Lotus 87 [4]

15  EICS Projects		  Graham North			England	  Lotus 92 [5]

17  Bob Berridge		   Bob Berridge			England	  RAM 01 [03-03] (RAM 03 really) 

18  Mike Wrigley		   Mike Wrigley			England	  Shadow DN9B [4B]

19  Terry Sailes		   Terry Sailes			England	  Surtees TS20

28  Andrew Wareing		 Andrew Wareing		  England	  Williams FW06 [003]

30  Steve Pontin Waltier   Steve Pontin Waltier	England	  Arrows A5

31  Peter Hannen		   Peter Hannen			England	  BRM P201  DNS engine

32  Kelvin Lambeth		 Kelvin Lambeth		  England	  Osella FA1B

33  Jan Lundgård		   Jan Lundgård			Sweden	   Theodore N183

36  Tony Smith			 Tony Smith			  England	  McLaren M14A

71  Peter Müller		   Peter Müller			Germany	  March 711 [2] (Ronnie Peterson)

88  Mike Whatley		   Mike Whatley			England	  Ensign N175

[Rob Ryder]

Cheers Conjohn . A good start in such a short time

[Allen Brown]

Hi Rob

I got your email and my offer of photocopied sheets still stands (of course!) but I'm suffering from a project build-up at the moment so you'll have to be patient with me. I did a monster Can-Am update to my site (just the 11 seasons) and have run out of energy half way through checking it all. So I decided to do the British Sprint Championship for light relief (just the first 21 seasons ) and have just got that onto my site only to hit the same "checking is boring" problem.

And I have to do a stack of Atlantic updates for Chris. And then publish some long-outstanding USAC pages. Then ... TGP.

Allen

[Rob Ryder]

Thanks Allen,
I think if the original thread can wait 3 years a while longer will not hurt.
Let me know if/when you want my data (Access or Excel)
Rob

[Mac Lark]

Originally posted by David McKinney
I think the P180 you have in mind is 02, raced in 1993 and 1994 by John Beasley and 1998/99 by Peter Hannen. Last I heard (a couple of months ago) it was for sale (I can track it down further if you wish)
As far as I know the other P180, 01, remains part of the Donington Collection

When I was at Donington last September, the blurb in front of P180/01 stated it was the car that had won the 1972 Monaco GP.

This did get pointed out and I've since wondered if it has been fixed.

Along with them giving the designer of the Tyrrells a capital 'G' for his surname and that the M21 McLaren was designed for the new 2-litre F2 , and didn't have a 1600cc engine.

Pedantic is the word I believe..

[Twin Window]

Originally posted by Mac Lark

When I was at Donington last September, the blurb in front of P180/01 stated it was the car that had won the 1972 Monaco GP.

Easy mistake to make that, confusing a May day in Monaco with Brands Hatch in October. That and the fact that P180/02 was the only race winner out of the two built...

[Tim Murray]

Reminds me of my last visit there, in June '03. (I too spotted a few errors on the display captions. ) The place was pretty empty, and I was slowly moving around among my favourites, when I became aware that a small group was catching me up, with one of them declaiming loudly to the others about the exhibits. As they got closer I realised that the declaimer was none other than Tom Wheatcroft himself, showing his collection to some Americans. I followed them round at a discreet distance to hear what Tom had to say about his cars, but soon had to give up and move on. I was so, so tempted to interrupt and embarrass everyone by telling Tom that the bullshit he was coming out with was a very long way from the truth as I knew it.

[Rob Ryder]

Bump

Have I finally found a request for info that has beaten the TNFers?
Come on guys, someone must as least know the race dates...

1996 Magny-Cours (May?)
1996 Nurburgring (July?)
1997 Zolder (July or August?)
1997 Nurburgring (August?)

[ghinzani]

Originally posted by Rob Ryder
The races are not televised here in the U.K., and I don't think anywhere else in the world.

[p][Edited by Rob Ryder on 02-21-2001]

Its on Motors TV these days.

[Allen Brown]

Originally posted by Rob Ryder
Bump

Have I finally found a request for info that has beaten the TNFers?
Come on guys, someone must as least know the race dates...

1996 Magny-Cours (May?)
1996 Nurburgring (July?)
1997 Zolder (July or August?)
1997 Nurburgring (August?)

This is the list of major historic 3-litre F1 races that I used to maintain up to the end of 1998:

Thruxton (n/c) 17 April 1995
Donington Park 21 May 1995
Magny Cours (n/c) 04 June 1995
Nürburgring 25 June 1995
Brands Hatch 02 July 1995
Zandvoort (n/c) 20 August 1995
Donington Park 03 September 1995
Dijon (n/c) 24 September 1995
Brno 01 October 1995
Donington Park 05 May 1996
Magny Cours 26 May 1996
Anderstorp 09 June 1996
Nürburgring 23 June 1996
Donington Park 01 September 1996
Brno 29 September 1996
Silverstone 05 May 1997
Monza 18 May 1997
Donington Park 1 June 1997
Jyllandsring (n/c) 15 June 1997
Nürburgring 17 July 1997
Zolder 03 August 1997
Nürburgring 10 August 1997
Brno 14 September 1997
Brands Hatch 19 October 1997
Paul Ricard 12 April 1998
Monza 17 May 1998
Most 21 June 1998
Brands Hatch 5 July 1998
Nürburgring 12 July 1998
Nürburgring 9 August 1998
Donington Park 6 September 1998
Spa 13 September 1998
Brands Hatch 25 October 1998
Kyalami (n/c) 6 December 1998

The (n/c) ones weren't part of the TGP series itself.

Allen

[Rob Ryder]

Originally posted by Allen Brown
This is the list of major historic 3-litre F1 races that I used to maintain up to the end of 1998:

The (n/c) ones weren't part of the TGP series itself.
Allen

Thanks Allen, a useful list that confirms my info ... plus the 4 missing dates!

Now, results anyone?
(Allen excluded because they are pre-arranged )
Rob

[Rob Ryder]

Originally posted by ghinzani

Its on Motors TV these days.

Yes, I've watched for the past two seasons on MotorsTV. Reasonable coverage considering the programs are only 30 minutes , pity about the commentator .
The 2004 season review is televised this week..

I LOVE the interviews with 'Fast Fredy K'
Rob

[David McKinney]

Rob, if you PM me - or post here - the races whose results you're not going to get from Allen, I may be able to fill in some gaps. With the same proviso that you might have to wait a while!

[EvDelft]

Wel, this was what I was looking for in the past few weeks... Interesting, nice to find out about TGP / HFO.

Unfortunately, most of the links don't work any more. Are there still results placed on the web? Anyone who knows? Hard to find, for the Czech site innemann seems not to be working any more...

All I could really find was the HFO-site of the FIA, but that doesn't list the results before 2009...

Thanks again,

Erwin.

[Rob Ryder]

Well, this was what I was looking for in the past few weeks... Interesting, nice to find out about TGP / HFO.

Thanks again,

Erwin.

Hi Erwin
I now have the majority of results from 1995 up to Hockenheim on 18th April 2010.
If you send me a PM I email them to you. (WS Word, MS Excel or MS Acess format).
Rob

[Pink Snail]

What started out as The Thoroughbred Grand Prix series received FIA recognition to become the Historic Formula One Championship and is sanctioned by the FIA meaning that the drivers and teams are part of the annual prize awards in Monaco at the end of the season. The organisers and participants take you back to the glory days of F1 and represent what is without doubt the best era of F1 (late 60s to early 80s). The people involved with the HFO are all very nice people and the atmosphere at the meetings is not to be missed. Visiting all the classic circuits like Hockenheim, Brands Hatch, Spa, Jarama, Monza, Paul Ricard, Estoril, Silverstone, Hungaroring, Zandvoort, Nurburgring and more. The cars are very well turned out and look fabulous in the colours of Ragno, Marlboro, Samson, Gitanes, Kelemata and cars from Ensign, Ligier, Tyrrell, Shadow, Theodore, Arrows and the top teams like Brabham, Mclaren, Ferrari & Lotus. Have a look at the website at www.historicformulaone.com and enjoy......KM

[EvDelft]

What started out as The Thoroughbred Grand Prix series received FIA recognition to become the Historic Formula One Championship and is sanctioned by the FIA meaning that the drivers and teams are part of the annual prize awards in Monaco at the end of the season. The organisers and participants take you back to the glory days of F1 and represent what is without doubt the best era of F1 (late 60s to early 80s). The people involved with the HFO are all very nice people and the atmosphere at the meetings is not to be missed. Visiting all the classic circuits like Hockenheim, Brands Hatch, Spa, Jarama, Monza, Paul Ricard, Estoril, Silverstone, Hungaroring, Zandvoort, Nurburgring and more. The cars are very well turned out and look fabulous in the colours of Ragno, Marlboro, Samson, Gitanes, Kelemata and cars from Ensign, Ligier, Tyrrell, Shadow, Theodore, Arrows and the top teams like Brabham, Mclaren, Ferrari & Lotus. Have a look at the website at www.historicformulaone.com and enjoy......KM

Pink Snail,

Thanks for the info. I already discovered the HFO official site. It is really very interesting and it exposes the cars from the best era, according to me. I sure will visit one of the races next year!

Thanks again

[Rob Ryder]

As this thread has been revived... I am still searching for the following full TGP results

24/09/95 Dijon-Prenois

09/06/96 Anderstorp

01/06/97 Donington Park
15/06/97 Jyllandsring
10/08/97 Nurburgring

Any help would be apprecitated
Rob

[EvDelft]

As this thread has been revived... I am still searching for the following full TGP results

24/09/95 Dijon-Prenois

09/06/96 Anderstorp

01/06/97 Donington Park
15/06/97 Jyllandsring
10/08/97 Nurburgring

Any help would be apprecitated
Rob

I'll keep an eye open for you.

[Bjorn Kjer]

The "innemann" site does work !

I am still awiting results for Jyllandsringen 1997 which is not mentioned on the above site.

[Pink Snail]

I can recomend the Historic Superprix at Brands Hatch on the first weekend of July - awesome with the HFO, F5000(many from Australia & New Zealand!!), Classic Saloons and F2 cars and lots more. A fantastic campsite 5 minutes drive from the circuit and a great atmosphere all weekend - easy to get to from the `European` side of the Channel aswell!

[Andy Arnold]

As this thread has been revived... I am still searching for the following full TGP results

24/09/95 Dijon-Prenois

09/06/96 Anderstorp

01/06/97 Donington Park
15/06/97 Jyllandsring
10/08/97 Nurburgring

Any help would be apprecitated
Rob

Have you tried contacting Oliver McCrudden at HFO for your missing results.

Recently reading through some 1996 editions of Motor Sport magerzine and they ran articles on the TGP races and IIRC Anderstorp was included, not the full result just the top 6 and a few paragraphes on the events of the race.

[Rob Ryder]

Have you tried contacting Oliver McCrudden at HFO for your missing results.

Recently reading through some 1996 editions of Motor Sport magerzine and they ran articles on the TGP races and IIRC Anderstorp was included, not the full result just the top 6 and a few paragraphes on the events of the race.

Thanks Andy, but I contacted Oliver a number of years ago.
The original TGP organisation did not keep any records or results, so I sent him a copy of mine
Rob

Edited by Rob Ryder, 03 May 2010 - 18:33.

[EvDelft]

Well, just finding out about EuroBOSS... Unfortunately the results on their own website are not at the least complete. Anyone any info for me?

Thanks again...

[Red Socks]

Thanks Andy, but I contacted Oliver a number of years ago.
The original TGP organisation did not keep any records or results, so I sent him a copy of mine
Rob

Try Fred Champlon at FIA in Geneva, they have all the results because they made the championship up for the website.He must have them.

[Rob Ryder]

Try Fred Champlon at FIA in Geneva, they have all the results because they made the championship up for the website.He must have them.

Yes, but it has only been an FIA Championship for the past 2 or 3 years.
Rob

[Red Socks]

Yes, but it has only been an FIA Championship for the past 2 or 3 years.
Rob

Nearer to ten years-in fact as TGP it has always been an FIA Championship.
The races run by the HSCC were not.

Having now spoken to Steve Lydon he tells me the FIA TGP championship started in 1994

Edited by Red Socks, 29 May 2010 - 13:39.

[David McKinney]

... following pressure, as I recall it, from the aforementioned FIA, who would not permit any series to have the words "Grand Prix" in its title unless it was an FIA championship

[Rob Ryder]

Nearer to ten years-in fact as TGP it has always been an FIA Championship.
The races run by the HSCC were not.

Having now spoken to Steve Lydon he tells me the FIA TGP championship started in 1994

Well you learn something every day

I don't remember the FIA being metioned with respect to 'Thoroughbred Grand Prix'.
I assumed that it became an FIA Championship when it change name to 'FIA Historic Formula One' (HFO)
Rob

[Pink Snail]

Some of the shirts and caps I have relating to the TGP do indeed have the FIA crest included in the embroidery work. I think the FIA have actually endorsed the TGP/HFO since its inception but only since if became the HFO have they sanctioned the series as a bona fide Championship. The champions are recognised at the annual FIA awards in Monaco at the end of season dinner/presentation. I could be wrong and sometimes I am - so shoot me down if you need to!!! What still stands out for me is that the guys driving the cars still `race` them as opposed to show them off and the cars are well presented every time they go out on track.

Edited by Pink Snail, 01 June 2010 - 20:16.

[sundance76]

In my opinion, it was always a FIA championship.

From the italian magazine Autosprint (1995):




1998:



2005 Monza Official Programme:

[Gary C]

When was it changed to the FIA Championship? When martin Stretton won it in the Tyrell 005? 1995?

[Allen Brown]

I think Pink Snail is right. It became a proper championship in 1994, having been the HSCC's "Historic F1" series up to that point but I don't think it became a full FIA championship until recently when it changed its name to HFO. I don't know what the exact distinction is.

[sundance76]

When martin Stretton won it in the Tyrell 005? 1995?

Yes, 1995:

http://historicformu...ut/past-winners