98 replies to this topic

[Sakae]

I don't see anything contoversial here. I don't think Michael is as good as he was 10 years ago, and Nico has beaten him on points 2 years running.

Anyway, he hasn't quantified 'tough'. Maybe Michael is a really nice person to work with?

Nico's words will carry more weight when he wins a war and after Schumacher hangs his helmet for good, instead jumping with joy just a few scrimmages. What I have seen last year, he should be careful with his words, because someone can remaind him of those later on (as they confronted Alonso about his comments on Vettel).

[flyer121]

This looks like a loaded question - very unusual too. Its like asking to rate your teammates.
Anyway could Nico have answered Michael with a straight face at all? after comfortably beating him ...

Perhaps he could ve been more diplomatic and said "they are all tough " or "none at all" but thats a PR class he certainly missed.

Another option and perhaps the only real truth is to say that MS wasnt a problem after his comeback because he is a spent force.
But then he will be inviting bashing onto himself on the cyber shores ... again !

Beating MS is a crime and Nico has committed that crime - what can he do now? Should have thought about it earlier...

Edit: And Webber is no slouch so I m not surprised that he considers him his greatest challenge and the fastest teammate he ever had to deal with.
Regardless of what people say about Webber - he was ultra fast and would be a WDC (or 2 ) if not for Vettel!

Edited by flyer121, 23 February 2012 - 13:25.

[slideways]

Regardless of what people say about Webber - he was ultra fast and would be a WDC (or 2 ) if not for Vettel!

If Vettel wasn't around one of the other top tier guys would be in that seat and I'm not sure I would bet on Webber against them.

[bourbon]

Nico's response might be the same even if Schumi had come out on top by the margin Nico did. I think it was more Nico expressing the fact that his rookie year against a fast and experienced Webber was tough for him.

[Kubiccia]

Well, I don't see controversy in what Nico said.

Webber really was his tougher team mate because he faced Schumi in different conditions than his previous form. It's quite natural, tbh, for him to say such thing. It's true.

[Sevach]

Webber as Rosberg team mate gave us perhaps the greatest moment in pit radio communication ever.

Britney's in the wall

[jrg19]

http://www1.skysport...umi-in-Red-Bull

If Nicos comments are anything to go by Bernies idea is obviously to make Vettels job even easier at the front.

[holiday]

Webber as Rosberg team mate gave us perhaps the greatest moment in pit radio communication ever.

Britney's in the wall

Probably Rosberg has still not forgotten this tough special treatment by Aussie Grit Mark:

Although the accident was relatively straight-forward, Nico Rosberg misjudged his braking into a crowded turn four and tagged Williams team-mate Mark Webber, the race back to the pits that ensued was, in a word, crazy. Webber had a cracked diffuser and lacked rear-end stability while Rosberg had a damaged front wing, inducing copious amounts of understeer. The team realised this and, because a front wing is easily replaced and a diffuser isn't, Webber was told to cede position. But having been rear-ended by his younger team-mate, Webber was not willing to play game. Instead he forced the little upstart off the racing line, onto the dirty part of the track and, with Rosberg's front wing providing next to no downforce, into a massive accident. As he did so the team came over the radio, reiterating the orders for Rosberg to pit first. Webber replied: "Don't think so mate. Britney's in the wall."

http://en.espnf1.com...tory/19485.html

Epic by Mark.

[George Costanza]

Fortunately for him, he wasn't Schumacher's teammate during 94 and 95. Otherwise, he would've had to hang on to that Britney hair.

This.


Nico can't hold a candle to vintage Schu.

[spacekid]

Thanks holiday! Well I think that puts Nicos comments in perspective, doesn't it? I would call Mark a 'tougher' team mate than Schumi after that.

Can you imagine the uproar if Schumi pushed a team mate into the wall like that?

[flyer121]

Probably Rosberg has still not forgotten this tough special treatment by Aussie Grit Mark:



Epic by Mark.

at the radio comment ...

But can you replace the diffuser at the pitstops at all?

[king_crud]

This.


Nico can't hold a candle to vintage Schu.

is anyone saying he can? Was that the question he was asked? No.

[flyer121]

is anyone saying he can? Was that the question he was asked? No.

This.
People just go wild whenever MS is slighted even in the most indirect way.

[spacekid]

This.
People just go wild whenever MS is slighted even in the most indirect way.

True. As a fellow fan I find it more than a little embarrasing at times. I imagine Hamilton fans must sometimes feel the same.

[metz]

Nothing controvercial here.
Nico is stating what the points reflect.

[Baddoer]

I believe Nico will score some points this year.

[SeanValen]

Schumacher risked more, scored the highest finishing positions in 2011-Canada 4th place-which easily could of been 2nd place-and who did Schumacher actually go wheel to wheel with in the rain in Canada? Mark Webber was saved at Canada by the wet/dry race decisions of the FIA who thought wet tyres were suddenly no use to the sport and robbed Schumacher of 2nd place and pehaps pressuring vettel the same way Button did for the win.


* * * * the points, what actually happened? From the back at Spa to 5th place , wheel to wheel with Hamilton at Monza, who was better in traffic at Spain 2011? and has won at Spain in two years in a row? Schumacher Monaco performances before the car let him down 2011 or FIA screwed him over-2010-


Nico is a very good driver, but he hasn't finished his job yet, and has nothing on the scorecard other then best of the rest points positions where as Schumacher has not only success from the past, but he did score the highest finishing positions in 2011, so is a major player still for top results.

Edited by SeanValen, 23 February 2012 - 17:22.

[KateLM]

Not really suprising news as MW is the only driver Nico "lost" to.

All further speculations (NR/MW/MSC got better/worse) are - as always - completely subjective.

This. Seems like a non-story to me.

[Alfisti]

Webber has improved dramatically since then, I believe he would give Nico another whupping if they were teammates again in 2012

No he hasn't, he drives a faster car but IMHO he was at his peak 2003-2006. He over drove the 2005 Williams but always looked like getting a huge result more than Heidfeld did. In 2006 Rosberg started great but it was a rubbish car, Mark drove the wheels off it at Monaco in what remains his most disappointing result after a gun drive.

[metz]

No he hasn't, he drives a faster car but IMHO he was at his peak 2003-2006. He over drove the 2005 Williams but always looked like getting a huge result more than Heidfeld did.

Over drove
He had a disaster year in 2005.
Counting all 3 days, he spun and crashed more than 15 times that season. A performance worthy of the worst rookie.
Although Heidfeld had more mechanical failures that year, he beat Webber on points. (by "just sitting there" I suppose)
Have another look at Monaco '05 to see how the pass on Alonso was done by both drivers.
So, sorry, but 2005 was Marks worst year.
His best year was 2006 where he had calmed down considerably and he had no pressure with a rookie teamate.

[JimmyRecard]

So what, If we didn't have personal opinions this thread wouldn't even be happening, besides results speak for themselves - maybe we should ask Frank Williams for an opinion?
Please do, he said last year he was sorry he couldn't supply Webber with the decent car he expected when joining the team.

Webber is a fast, experienced driver, because of the stupid testing regulations teams barely have a choice now - experience or money.

[bub]

God damn overly defensive Shumacher groupies.
Rosberg lost to Webber and has beaten Shumacher twice. Pretty obvious which was tougher.

[Jejking]

God damn overly defensive Shumacher groupies.
Rosberg lost to Webber and has beaten Shumacher twice. Pretty obvious which was tougher.

Points do not tell the whole story. End of story.

[slideways]

Over drove
He had a disaster year in 2005.
Counting all 3 days, he spun and crashed more than 15 times that season. A performance worthy of the worst rookie.
Although Heidfeld had more mechanical failures that year, he beat Webber on points. (by "just sitting there" I suppose)
Have another look at Monaco '05 to see how the pass on Alonso was done by both drivers.
So, sorry, but 2005 was Marks worst year.
His best year was 2006 where he had calmed down considerably and he had no pressure with a rookie teamate.

Got the BS goggles on my friend. As Fisti said Webber was thrashing every last % out of that car, and much faster than Heidfeld all year, but also as a result much messier. The Monaco pass is just something Heidfeld fans cling to while ignoring that it was hard to follow as Alonso was clued in to the braking point of the Williams.

[karne]

Got the BS goggles on my friend. As Fisti said Webber was thrashing every last % out of that car, and much faster than Heidfeld all year, but also as a result much messier. The Monaco pass is just something Heidfeld fans cling to while ignoring that it was hard to follow as Alonso was clued in to the braking point of the Williams.

Heidfeld fans also like to conveniently forget that the only reason Heidfeld was ahead of Webber was because of some maneuvering by Williams.

[goldenboy]

oh no...

[slideways]

Hey, this is a totally original topic.

[mymemoryfails]

No he hasn't, he drives a faster car but IMHO he was at his peak 2003-2006. He over drove the 2005 Williams but always looked like getting a huge result more than Heidfeld did. In 2006 Rosberg started great but it was a rubbish car, Mark drove the wheels off it at Monaco in what remains his most disappointing result after a gun drive.

Well I disagree. Here's why....
Yes of course he's driving a better car, but he is also racing at (or near) the front every race now. I know it can get awfully messy and desperate in the midfield and further back, but I think it would be easier than taking on Hamilton, Button, Vettel, and Alonso week in and week out. I'm not saying these guys are dangerous or anything, rather they are at a very high level. As he should, Webber is being judged against a higher scale than in Williams days.

It's not to say that Nico R couldn't operate at that level, but it's got to be the highest most pressurized level there is, surely? Someone might run a great marathon in New York, or Tokyo or somewhere, but dont we value the olympic marathon as the highest?

I know RedBull provide great tools for the fight, but I think Webber is a better fighter, in a bigger fight, than before.

mymemoryfails

[Jaybools]

Well I disagree. Here's why....
Yes of course he's driving a better car, but he is also racing at (or near) the front every race now. I know it can get awfully messy and desperate in the midfield and further back, but I think it would be easier than taking on Hamilton, Button, Vettel, and Alonso week in and week out. I'm not saying these guys are dangerous or anything, rather they are at a very high level. As he should, Webber is being judged against a higher scale than in Williams days.

It's not to say that Nico R couldn't operate at that level, but it's got to be the highest most pressurized level there is, surely? Someone might run a great marathon in New York, or Tokyo or somewhere, but dont we value the olympic marathon as the highest?

I know RedBull provide great tools for the fight, but I think Webber is a better fighter, in a bigger fight, than before.

mymemoryfails

Sure, but in the old days he was qualifying at a few tracks in the same spots where he is now in the best car, except ages ago he was in Jags and Williams'. He definitely has peaked. Its probably easier fighting against the very good drivers like hami (at times), vettel (when he doesn't swerve into you) and fernando etc. because he has confidence they wont smack him off the road, compared to say a rookie in a team that was around jags pace way back when.

[KateLM]

Points do not tell the whole story. End of story.

And? This isn't a discussion of how many points Schumacher did or didn't deserve last year, it's about Rosberg's opinion on who was a tougher team mate. He was the one who was racing against them, I would wager that he's more qualified to make a judgement than any internet fanboy.

[UPRC]

It is sad to see Schumacher still trundling around. He tries the old moves on drivers who no longer fear him, wouldn't it be great to remember Schumacher as he was

Schumacher is doing pretty darn good given his age and the car he has. He's still pretty competitive (as much as the car allows), so the fact that Rosberg is usually in front of him in races is quite impressive.

[king_crud]

I do wonder if these people carry on like this in real life

[H2H]

I do wonder if these people carry on like this in real life

Where is the scandal? A talented but very young Rosberg encountered one of the most undervalued drivers in the business and struggled to keep up with him. Years later a mature Rosberg was able to outperform a fantastic driver which struggled due to age and the long pause. Of course in relative terms the first teammate was a harder challenge and Nico rightly said so.

Edited by H2H, 24 February 2012 - 12:41.

[Pits]

This is a tippical example of an small comment from Rosberg blown out of proportion.
I surprissed people are really debating this subject...

[tkulla]

This is a tippical example of an small comment from Rosberg blown out of proportion.
I surprissed people are really debating this subject...

Agreed. And he can't very well say anyone but Webber was his toughest teammate, since Mark is the only one to have beaten him.

For the record, Mark Webber is an excellent F1 driver. Last year was the anomaly, as he couldn't get the Pirelli's to work for him, in stark contrast to his teammate. But back on Bridgestones (and Michelins) Mark was super quick and consistent. Let's hope he can get the new Pirelli's to work a bit better this year to regain that form and give Seb an intra-team challenge.

[LewEngBridewell]

I'm not sure he'll be saying that at the end of this season.

It'll be interesting to see how the two of them fare this season. I expect Nico Rosberg to continue to beat Michael Schumacher, based on the evidence of the last two years they've spent together.

However, despite not being a fan of Schumacher's, if he were to win a race in 2012, I'd be over the moon for him.

[Tenmantaylor]

God damn overly defensive Shumacher groupies.
Rosberg lost to Webber and has beaten Shumacher twice. Pretty obvious which was tougher.

The Britneys in the Wall comment: hilarious

Also shows to me that Nico has improved as a driver but there's also an element that Michael will never get the magic back. He's been soundly beaten by Nico in two different cars, how anyone thinks the car changing again will make him faster than an improving Nico is fanciful.

[Jejking]

And? This isn't a discussion of how many points Schumacher did or didn't deserve last year, it's about Rosberg's opinion on who was a tougher team mate. He was the one who was racing against them, I would wager that he's more qualified to make a judgement than any internet fanboy.

I respect Rosbergs opinion. Meanwhile I see the logic and reason behind it for him to say something like that. It's business. And that's ok. But when somebody just comes here to throw in a nitwit comment, proving he didn't look at history at all and didn't want to analyze the situation correctly, I assume I have the right to respond to that. #fail.

You probably have missed my post analyzing Rosbergs seasons?

[Sakae]

I respect Rosbergs opinion. Meanwhile I see the logic and reason behind it for him to say something like that. It's business. And that's ok. But when somebody just comes here to throw in a nitwit comment, proving he didn't look at history at all and didn't want to analyze the situation correctly, I assume I have the right to respond to that. #fail.

You probably have missed my post analyzing Rosbergs seasons?

I for one want to wait for such questions to ask only after MS hangs F1 helmet for good. This issue of thoughness is still percolating, and I view last two years merely as an anomaly and a blimp in Schumacher's carreer. Despite that it would be unfair to expect Schumacher to return to his former self, but this is not over yet, for he is better than recent results imply. (Otherwise we would have to write Hamilton off as well after 2011).

Edited by Sakae, 25 February 2012 - 15:00.

[Jejking]

I for one want to wait for such questions to ask only after MS hangs F1 helmet for good. This issue of thoughness is still percolating, and I view last two years merely as an anomaly and a blimp in Schumacher's carreer. Despite that it would be unfair to expect Schumacher to return to his former self, but this is not over yet, for he is better than recent results imply. (Otherwise we would have to write Hamilton off as well after 2011).

Jep. Agreed.

Too bad I wasn't able to find out what was going on over there at Mercedes at really close range. That folded officially.

[KateLM]

I respect Rosbergs opinion. Meanwhile I see the logic and reason behind it for him to say something like that. It's business. And that's ok. But when somebody just comes here to throw in a nitwit comment, proving he didn't look at history at all and didn't want to analyze the situation correctly, I assume I have the right to respond to that. #fail.

You probably have missed my post analyzing Rosbergs seasons?

I didn't really bother looking at it. Because the question Rosberg was asked was not "objectively speaking, which of your teammate's had the best overall career and how would you compare it to your total career achievements", it was "who was your toughest teammate". Simple question, simple answer - the one he lost to. That's it, you don't need to go into it in any more detail than that.

[Jejking]

I didn't really bother looking at it. Because the question Rosberg was asked was not "objectively speaking, which of your teammate's had the best overall career and how would you compare it to your total career achievements", it was "who was your toughest teammate". Simple question, simple answer - the one he lost to. That's it, you don't need to go into it in any more detail than that.

Your loss, not mine

[Longtimefan]

Arrogant little sod..

C'mon Michael, kick his arse this season. You can do it!

[V8 Fireworks]

Nico is lucky that he is Schumachers team mate in his 2nd career. If they were together in 95-04 he would of been blown away. Anyway Nico can talk all he wants. He has never won a f1 race in his career. I doubt he ever will.

You're a Massa fan.

You saw that Massa was very far, drastically, tremendously closer to Schumacher than Alonso.

You can extend the logic.

Maybe Schumi was on downward spiral even then?
2005 was a miserable season for Schumi after all. By all means equally as forgettable as the results gathered in the Mercedes.

[cheapracer]

You're a Massa fan.

You saw that Massa was very far, drastically, tremendously closer to Schumacher than Alonso.

You can extend the logic.

Maybe Schumi was on downward spiral even then?
2005 was a miserable season for Schumi after all. By all means equally as forgettable as the results gathered in the Mercedes.

You're nuts, go and compare Massa Vs Alonso pre-Massa bump on the head and then go find Massa Vs MS in terms of speed.

[MadYarpen]

Isn't it obvious, what he said? I mean you can't call Schumacher crap at the moment, but also he isn't giving Rosberg very hard time. And on the other hand being paired as a young driver with Webber must have been challenging. I don't understand all this fuss, I think even Schumacher would agree...

[HP]

Also shows to me that Nico has improved as a driver but there's also an element that Michael will never get the magic back. He's been soundly beaten by Nico in two different cars, how anyone thinks the car changing again will make him faster than an improving Nico is fanciful.

It is a matter of age and liking the tires. Most older drivers are slower in qualifying. And in recent F1 it was always important to qualify high up.

I do think however for Nico's sake, he shouldn't have given a comparative answer to that question. If Webber was though, how though will it be if he gets paired with Webber's teammate? From what I've seen in pre season testing, I'd not be surprised if the situation at RBR looks the same as last year. And if that happens, I can't see RBR wanting to replace Webber with Rosberg. I'd think RBR would have to go for a younger driver they can build up, or someone that is considerably better than Webber. I think that McLaren is in a better position to lift the WCC than RBR this year. Hamilton and Button are simply the better pairing.

Nico's comment on Webber being toughest wasn't smart at all, unless he can show a few exceptional performances this year. Frankly, just beating MS at this stage of MS career doesn't seem good enough to cut it. Rosberg IMO needs to be careful that his career doesn't take on a similar path as that of Nick Heidfeld's. Neither MS, nor Webber, nor any of his previous and future team mates can be his yardstick. His yard stick must be to win races and become champion. I did miss this determination in Rosberg since he's in F1. In that regards he seems to me eerily similar to that of Heidfeld. I hoped Heidfeld would do well. Heidfeld had wins in him, but he wasn't invited into teams that gave him such opportunities over a long period of time. And when he had the opportunity, he didn't make them stick.

Will be interesting to see how Rosberg develops this year.

[schubacca]

Rosberg has it all to prove.....

Schumacher...... Not so much so....

[Alarcon]

I´m agree with Rosberg and I not consider those stats as an "attack".

Imo Nico talks about the speed, and you can´t compare a Schumacher 2.0 against Mark Webber. Maybe would be much fair to compare Schumacher 1.0 against Mark, but right now Nico is fast than him (sometimes he was more than 1 second fast on Q3) and he talks about his own experience. Mark overqualified Nico and beat him on the class. with the same car.

It would had been worst if he said: "I beat one of the greatest driver in F1 with the same car". Imo what he said it´s more realistic.