81 replies to this topic

[BennyJohnson]

When I hear "tire strategy" during qualifying I am about to puke.

The only real solution is strikingly simple:

- eliminate the requirement to start on qualifying tires
- separate the allotment of tires between practice, qualifying and race. Use them or lose them, no carry-overs.

Pirelli should just bring 10 sets of the Option Tyre.

If you make it into Q3, you get a set of tyres that can only be used in Qually.

Then it's just a case of sorting out what tyres to start the race on, I think you could try, if you only set one time, you use the tyres you used to set your fastest time in Q2 or if you set an additional Q3 time, you use the tyres you set your additional Q3 time on. Or teams can juse a brand new set. After all, Q3 is supposed to be an advantage. Making it into Q3 knowing you don't have to use any additional tyres is a massive bonus for the last couple of spots, and will see teams trying much much harder to get there.

[fieraku]

Great! they will use 55 minutes for testing and last 5 minutes to get a qualifying lap.

Wouldn't that be thrilling?Make for a great ''Show",it's all about the show.

[tkulla]

Maybe keep Q1 and Q2 as they are, but then Q3 could be like 2005 qualifying; 1 shot at a hot lap (mandatory), one by one, starting with the guy placed in P10 in Q2. Everyone on option tyres. We'd get to see every lap in Q3 in full. It would be great to see the 6th runner for example (4th in Q2) set a great time, and then watch the last 3 guys try and beat it. Currently we have a situation where we can miss the pole lap, and we're also essentially left waiting at the finish line while everyone passes it in quick succession, waiting to see the green time graphic. Having a single lap would also pile on the pressure to the Q3 guys, which would make for some edge-of-your-seat experiences for us. Q3 has provided that in the last few years, but sometimes it feels like it could be a 5 minute session and be the same, and actually seeing all these laps would be great.

I want to see the full lap of each top driver... They could even do a "ghost car" of the current top lap in an inset window while showing incar in the main window.

Edited by tkulla, 01 March 2012 - 23:47.

[SB]

Give them some reason to action in Q3, such as championship points ?

For example 4 - 3.5 - 3 - 2.5 .... - 1 - 0.5 system for top eight qualifiers (so P9 / 10 would gain nothing), which would only give little advantage on championship leaders, but a huge different for those middle and smaller teams if they try on Q3?

Edited by SB, 02 March 2012 - 00:52.

[hammibal]

You'd be surprised how much a tire set costs and in an hour of Qualifying there wouldn't be a whole lot more tires than what they already use.

F1 is not for cheapos anyway,that's why I watch it,cos those guys spare no expense.

I think Pirelli are limited to how many tyres they can take to a GP

[F1Squishy]

The one lap format in 2005 was a terrible idea especialy for people that went to the races. I went to Silverstone in 05 and although it was exciting being there for my first GP it was boring only seeing a car fly past you for a few seconds then just being left with commentary until the car came past again on it's outlap, repeat again for the next 20 odd cars. I went again in 09 and it was and still is a hell of a lot better format but to improve it further i'd suggest to simply give qualifying tyres. Maybe 3 sets for Q1 and 2 sets for Q2 & Q3 - No carry over to the race and you can start on whatever tyre you want for the race.

[W03]

I wouldn't mind seeing the current Q3 format transform into a ten-car single-lap qualifying session. I liked the single-lap qualifying format and wouldn't mind seeing it make a return.

That was a horribly boring parade. Just them give them more tyres, because that is the reason they sometimes sit in the pits and don't run, but that is not very often anyway, so this is not a huge issue, just people making mountains out of mole hills.

[Ulysses777]

No way that single-lap qualifying is coming back after the Minardi incident in 2003.

And points for qualifying is also also a bad idea. I believe some lower series tried that, with the embarassing result that the championship was decided in a qualifying session instead of the race.

[Sakae]

When I hear "tire strategy" during qualifying I am about to puke.

Whilst highly condensed sentiment, it is probably closest statement that is accurately expressing my feelings about tire related focus of modern F1.

[tkulla]

The one lap format in 2005 was a terrible idea especialy for people that went to the races. I went to Silverstone in 05 and although it was exciting being there for my first GP it was boring only seeing a car fly past you for a few seconds then just being left with commentary until the car came past again on it's outlap, repeat again for the next 20 odd cars. I went again in 09 and it was and still is a hell of a lot better format but to improve it further i'd suggest to simply give qualifying tyres. Maybe 3 sets for Q1 and 2 sets for Q2 & Q3 - No carry over to the race and you can start on whatever tyre you want for the race.

As opposed to seeing 10 cars go by in quick succession and still not having any idea what's happening?

The best thing about one-lap qualifying is that it puts a lot of pressure on the driver. If he doesn't go for it then he could be beaten by another driver who does (even in a lesser car) but if he does give it all then he runs the risk of making a mistake and locking up or sliding wide and losing even more time. It's the perfect dilemma that could have prevented the Vettel whitewash of qualifying we had last year (perhaps not, but it certainly would have been more difficult for him had he done so). Also, being able to see every driver we'd be able to tell who is really going for it, as well as learn about their driving styles. So much better, and as another poster mentioned it would make Q2 a big battle as well. No more "good enough" laps for the top guys there either.

As for the fans at the races - let's be honest, they are a very small minority of the people watching these races, and with technology (handheld tv) and the big screens I don't even really see a problem there.

[GTRacer]

Don't really see the facination with forcing everyone to run in Q3 as even if Force India or whoever actually did do a run you likely woudn't actually see them as all the focus would still be on the top guys fighting for pole.

Even when these teams did run in Q3 last year how many times did you see them on TV doing those runs?



The top 10 been a super-pole shootout woudn't be a bad idea, Its done in many other series & the fans love it. You get half hour of action with everyone on track in Q1/2 & then a real fight for pole at the end.

Edited by GTRacer, 02 March 2012 - 14:04.

[Clatter]

I think Pirelli are limited to how many tyres they can take to a GP

The rules limiting the number of tyres is only there because the supplier (Bridgestone at the time) wanted it that to reduce their costs. Same reason they wanted the 2 compound rule. There is no practical reason why they cannot take more.

[Clatter]

As opposed to seeing 10 cars go by in quick succession and still not having any idea what's happening?

The best thing about one-lap qualifying is that it puts a lot of pressure on the driver. If he doesn't go for it then he could be beaten by another driver who does (even in a lesser car) but if he does give it all then he runs the risk of making a mistake and locking up or sliding wide and losing even more time. It's the perfect dilemma that could have prevented the Vettel whitewash of qualifying we had last year (perhaps not, but it certainly would have been more difficult for him had he done so). Also, being able to see every driver we'd be able to tell who is really going for it, as well as learn about their driving styles. So much better, and as another poster mentioned it would make Q2 a big battle as well. No more "good enough" laps for the top guys there either.

As for the fans at the races - let's be honest, they are a very small minority of the people watching these races, and with technology (handheld tv) and the big screens I don't even really see a problem there.

I can only assume that you don't bother to attend then.

[fieraku]

I think Pirelli are limited to how many tyres they can take to a GP

Well that's why I said lets "unlimit" them.

[pingu666]

its to fill out the track.

and now drivers are having to hold back in q3 as they a)need the soft tyre in the race, b)will start on that set

couple of throw away sets would fix that.

work out the cost of 80 tyres (or 40 for only 1 set each) per race, then reduce the teams windtunnel/cfd time by that much

less front wings, but more maximum attack

[fieraku]

Can't recall exactly but which year was it when they changed the Q format and JPM would always get first only to lose to Schu in the one lap shootout.
It's all scrambled someone refresh my memory purhlease.

[Garagiste]

One hour shootout,unlimited tires,start the race on whatever you please.

I liked the purity of that too, but the problem with that system was that nobody went out at all for the first 25 minutes and Murray was left grasping for something to talk about. Then the Minardis would venture out and clean the track - everybody else waited until the last ten minutes and then complained about the traffic. :/

[spacekid]

I just think they should get an extra set of tyres or two for each session they progress to. Otherwise it's not fair that drivers have to do more laps but don't get the extra tyres to do it on. Perhaps say 1 extra set for Q2, and another 2 extra sets for Q3. But those sets have to be given back after qualy whether they have been used or not, so that teams don't just stockpile new tyres for the race. With a given number of cars going progressing to each session, Pirelli will know how many extra sets to supply in advance.

I think this is a clever solution. We seem mostly agreed that the problem is that teams don't want to go out in Q3 and burn rubber for the sake of an extra grid slot, so negating that by giving the teams in Q3 an extra set or so should see everyone willing to go out and try to set a fast time with no penalty later in the race.

[MikeTekRacing]

Can somebody tell me what exactly is wrong with Q now?

[W03]

As opposed to seeing 10 cars go by in quick succession and still not having any idea what's happening?

Ever heard of live timing?

The best thing about one-lap qualifying is that it puts a lot of pressure on the driver. If he doesn't go for it then he could be beaten by another driver who does (even in a lesser car) but if he does give it all then he runs the risk of making a mistake and locking up or sliding wide and losing even more time.

Its actually the worst thing for the spectator because it means watching drivers at 90% scared of making a mistake, rather than driving balls out 100%. You also lose the combative element where drivers now get the chance to go out and beat the current leading time in the last seconds which is very exciting. One lap qualifying was a boring parade, not to mention unfair because of different track conditions.

[BullHead]

I wouldn't mind seeing the current Q3 format transform into a ten-car single-lap qualifying session. I liked the single-lap qualifying format and wouldn't mind seeing it make a return.

Same here. I enjoyed the single lap shoot out format. Got to see a driver do what he can in a pressurised speed counts situation.

No way that single-lap qualifying is coming back after the Minardi incident in 2003.

What do you mean?

[BullHead]

Ever heard of live timing?



Its actually the worst thing for the spectator because it means watching drivers at 90% scared of making a mistake, rather than driving balls out 100%. You also lose the combative element where drivers now get the chance to go out and beat the current leading time in the last seconds which is very exciting. One lap qualifying was a boring parade, not to mention unfair because of different track conditions.

The track conditions issue is a fair point, which is why some of the single lap pre qualifiers were a farce. But otherwise your first statement to me is bullsh1t.

[W03]

The track conditions issue is a fair point, which is why some of the single lap pre qualifiers were a farce. But otherwise your first statement to me is bullsh1t.

F1 drivers are always under pressure, the only difference in one lap qualifying is that they leave more margin, which is obviously less thrilling for spectators. Plus you see less of the drivers. Its worse in every single way.

[spacekid]

I don't see anything wrong with putting the drivers under pressure for a single lap - if one guy has the guts to push harder than another he deserves a better grid slot.

But the risk of variable track conditions and general track evolution during a session are too much of a negative to make me want to see single lap quali back.

[Ulysses777]

What do you mean?

When single-lap qualifying was introduced to F1 in 2003, it consisted of two sessions, on Friday and Saturday. The Friday session was only used for determining the running order on the Saturday session. The Saturday session would then decide the grid.

The Friday running order was based on the current championship standings. The slowest runners on Friday would then go out first on Saturday.

At the 2003 French GP, it was raining on the Friday, which stopped just as qualifying began. Therefore the track got drier and faster after each car. The two Minardi drivers were at the bottom of the championship standings, and were the last to go out, by which time the racing line was almost bone dry.

The result: the two Minardis (Verstappen and Wilson) were 1st and 2nd on the timesheets.

If the same weather had happened on Saturday, the Minardis (who were now running last on Saturday as well) could easily have ended up on the front row. As it turned out, Saturday qualifying was dry throughout (with the Minardis ultimately ending up on the back row).

But the incident clearly showed the problems with single-lap qualifying in F1.

Edited by Ulysses777, 03 March 2012 - 02:19.

[Sakae]

Can somebody tell me what exactly is wrong with Q now?

I think rules are obsessively restrictive, and limiting.

Edited by Sakae, 03 March 2012 - 12:08.

[olliek88]

I think rules are obsessively restrictive, and limiting.

Restrictive and limiting of what?

As a fan we still get an action packed 45 mins with the cars on track, the conditions are the same for all the teams, it reduces traffic for the quicker teams as the session goes on and it builds the tension until the final nailing biting, edge of your seats laps in Q3, i think it fine as it is.

Also now that the Pirellis are getting closer in performance it should leave a clearer definition between the options (as a qualy tire) & the primes (as the race tyre) meaning that hopefully theres less of the tyre saving in qualy we saw last year.

*Touches wood*

[Clatter]

I think rules are obsessively restrictive, and limiting.

Other than tyre saving and having to use the Q tyre at the start of the race, both things that could be easily solved. What other restrictions or limits are there?

As far as I'm concerned the current format is great.

[Sakae]

Other than tyre saving and having to use the Q tyre at the start of the race, both things that could be easily solved. What other restrictions or limits are there?

As far as I'm concerned the current format is great.

1. Qualification should last three hours. After two hours only top fourteen drivers remain in running. (Allows more balanced approach to quali in wet conditions).
2. Best lap determines grid position. Teams will be allowed no more than twenty of each inlaps, outlaps, and test laps.
3. No tire related choice restrictions / team can choose whatever / whenever / more tires shall be available
4. Teams can work on the car in unrestrictive manner all the time / quali setup is permitted / no more parc ferme


_______________

Race day - new setup, new tires, new battle, fresh mind

[Clatter]

1. Qualification should last three hours. After two hours only top fourteen drivers remain in running. (Allows more balanced approach to quali in wet conditions).
2. Best lap determines grid position. Teams will be allowed no more than twenty of each inlaps, outlaps, and test laps.
3. No tire related choice restrictions / team can choose whatever / whenever / more tires shall be available
4. Teams can work on the car in unrestrictive manner all the time / quali setup is permitted / no more parc ferme


_______________

Race day - new setup, new tires, new battle, fresh mind

1. One hour is more than enough. People just wouldn't switch on to see a 3 hour Q session, and the TV companies wouldn't want it either.
2. Happy with current situation where barring saving tyres they can run as much as they like.
3. Agree.
4. Parc Ferme setup changes should be allowed. I would bar changing components so that the cost saving element would still be there.

[fieraku]

Can somebody tell me what exactly is wrong with Q now?

Tires! There was no problem with the Bridgestones,but now you have drivers sitting in the garage contemplating whether two grid spots higher is better than a fresh set of tires.

[Sevach]

Reduce Q3 to five cars, simple.